Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d:Dark gnome

2009-07-30T21:33:06Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

{{CreatureInfo|name=Dark gnome|symbol=g|color={{COLOR:3:0:0}}|butcher=no|bones=3|chunks=7|meat=7|fat=1|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome= * [[Mountain]]s}}

'''Dark Gnomes''' are [[creatures]] that can be seen in [[mountain]] areas. They will steal [[alcohol]] and [[plant]]s related to alcohol production.

They usually wander around in packs of 5-10. They are moderately aggressive but not very strong. While 2-3 [[dog|dogs]] will typically engage and defeat a pack of dark gnomes, the gnomes might prove a threat to an [[herbalist]] or other unarmed [[dwarf]], especially if the civilian dwarf continually flees and does not defend himself. If there is no other protection available, the best way to save a dwarf in this situation is to draft him so he will fight back.

The only difference between [[mountain gnome]]s and dark gnomes is that dark gnomes have the <code>[EVIL]</code> tag instead of <code>[GOOD]</code> and are <code>[NOCTURNAL]</code> instead of <code>[DIURNAL]</code>.

They're not aggressive alone and will only harass your workers, unless they come in packs, which can be really annoying as they might kill some of your workers.

[[Image:Terrifying.PNG|Whispered tales of the black-hearted gnomes echo through this kobold cave.]]

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:GNOME_DARK]
[NAME:dark gnome:dark gnomes:dark gnome]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:10]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:20:50]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:10][LOOSE_CLUSTERS]
[BENIGN]
[CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][EVIL]
[PREFSTRING:ability to hold liquor]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:3]
[MAXAGE:230:250]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:20]
[FAT:2]
[NOCTURNAL]
[CAN_LEARN]
[BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Humanoids]]

40d:Leggings

2009-07-30T20:44:37Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

'''Leggings''' are [[armor]] covering the legs. They are made for either the [[leather]] armor (leather, shell and bone) or chain armor level.

Chain leggings are made from one [[metal]] bar at a [[forge]].

Leather leggings are made from one piece of leather.

Shell leggings require one shell.

Bone leggings require 3 stacks of bones (independent of stack size).

The plate equivalent of leggings is called [[greaves]].

[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Armor]]

40d Talk:Tree

2009-07-29T17:17:06Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Outdoor rock able to grow trees? */

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
::tower caps require moving water, and can supposedly spawn next to damp wall that fufills that requirement(moving water)– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:eerr|eerr]]
::Moving water is not necessary. Mud is fine. A damp wall doesn't cut it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:29, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay, this was a bit complex, so bear with me here - I dug out a pit underground, and channeled it out so it extended all the way to the layer that was the surface, BUT left the surface layer untouched. Not just the floor, but the actual layer of soil. Channel around that, and let it collapse all the way down to the pit you created. Roof it over. Muddy it. Trees will grow - http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/207/indoortreeqt8.png. --[[User:Xaddak|Xaddak]] 16:18, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

I noticed after digging a moat, that trees were growing there. Granted that I embarked at a place with a pretty high tree density, I believe that trees only need to be outside/above ground/light/on soil(not sure which combination). Can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 21:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've verified. The time, needed to grow is 1.5 years, not 3! At Pagebend, my current fort, treefarm was muddied at the late spring of 303, and now it's early winter of 304 and I already have some fully matured tower-caps! Changing article--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Deciduousness ==

I'm assuming that the "Autumnal" heading in the table was referring to trees whose leaves change colour in the autumn. I've changed the heading to "Deciduous", because as far as I am aware "Autumnal" is used to describe a tree currently undergoing the colour change, rather than a tree which is capable of it. Fun with pedantry! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:49, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Supports ==

I know it sounds crazy but once in adventure mode I smashed a Wolf onto a tree from the z-level above it. The dead body of the wolf stayed there for until I used the Travel Mode thing. Can anyone back this up? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 03:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah it happens. Trees support objects. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 02:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Indeed, I had a dead troll fall on a tree, what a mess. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Would the object in the tree join the wood pile made if the tree was chopped down? Can this be verified? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 13:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Yep, when I chopped down the tree my woodcutter was hip deep in troll chunks and ichor-stained clothing. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:45, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Default density ==

As the subject says. What is the default density? It lists several trees as having 'default' density, but I can't find what the default density actually is, anywhere. --[[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 19:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Greenhouse" Trees ==

Does an area have to be light, or above ground, to grow normal trees? I've been thinking of making a glass greenhouse to grow a large patch of trees. --[[User:Eb|Eb]] 07:16, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:you need 2 deep soil to grow trees.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== List of trees, each one an article ==

I added/created articles for each tree in the list. They only redirect to the table, since we don't have a lot of useful info of them yet to create an article. Like that, we remove some red ugly link, and people can link to these tree, in case, someday, they start to have more differences and need an article of their own. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 07:39, 27 January 2009 (EST)

== Treehuggers ==

I just realized that it's been a while, and at least a few [[version]] {{version|0.28.181.40d}} upgrades, since I've seen those annoying [[elves]] complain about my rampant deforestation habits. What percentage of a map's [[trees]] do I have to plunder before they start demanding I cap my demand? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 23:13, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:I have seen them complain in the .40d vanilla. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weights ==

What are the different weights of the wood for each tree? Should those be in the table? I know feather trees are unnaturally light and can be used to produce very light barrels as a result, for instance. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 20:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:That might be redundant. I think the feather tree is the only tree with a different weight, though I haven't checked. If every type of wood has a different weight, then certainly this is relevant. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 19:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Each wood have a specific weight (Which is under the "Density" column). Take a look at raw\objects\matgloss_wood.txt for the density of each type if you want. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 21:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
::: A tree's weight is based on its density, however, because density is such a large number, it takes quite a difference in density to make any in an object's weight. Except for feather trees, I am pretty sure that all of the rest of the trees are to close in densities to have different weights. --[[User:I2amroy|I2amroy]] 15:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: A pine bin : 56; Cedar bin : 38; Larch Bin : 59; tower-cap Bin : 60; Pine have a density of 560 , cedar one of 380, larch 590, and tower-cap 600. So density do have a role with the weight. Bin use 1/10 of the density, bed use 1/4 of it. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

::::While they tend to be close, it does make a significant difference in heavier items, and when you're giving troops gear (namely [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] who are weighed down by a big ol' stack of ammo), every unit of weight counts. Even more importantly, [[trade]]rs are limited by weight, and the heavier the log, the more room it takes up. So a caravan hauling cedar, willow, and feather tree logs is going to have more room for other stuff than a caravan hauling oak, maple, and glumprong. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Forest density ==

There seems to be some sort of tree limit, as if you embark on a heavy forest 6x6 and a half heavy forest half mountain you will get the same trees on embark, just a thicker forest. It's very noticeable [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== Outdoor rock able to grow trees? ==

I embarked on a map that has about 3/4 of the map in dolomite mountain, and the other 1/4 with a few trees and shrubs. It's a decent amount of trees, but I was wondering if I were to muddy the stone, that is, the stone right by the grass that is in complete daylight, would the now muddied area grow trees? Or because it was in a "different biome" (even though it's just a couple tiles away) would it not grow anything? Or maybe it wouldn't grow because it's muddy dolomite, and trees can only grow on soil types? Or maybe this would work? I'm going to test it out, but it might take a while because my fortress is fairly new.

Alright... I muddied a large portion of rock and it didn't grow trees. How surprising. I should've known from the start. Anyway, I then proceeded to make my mass watering machine into a flooding chamber. My dwarves are dead. Serves them right for not growing trees out of stone.[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Tree

2009-07-29T17:13:41Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Outdoor rock able to grow trees? */

40d Talk:Tree

2009-07-29T16:01:29Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Outdoor rock able to grow trees? */

40d Talk:Tree

2009-07-29T16:01:00Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Outdoor rock able to grow trees? */

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
::tower caps require moving water, and can supposedly spawn next to damp wall that fufills that requirement(moving water)– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:eerr|eerr]]
::Moving water is not necessary. Mud is fine. A damp wall doesn't cut it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:29, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay, this was a bit complex, so bear with me here - I dug out a pit underground, and channeled it out so it extended all the way to the layer that was the surface, BUT left the surface layer untouched. Not just the floor, but the actual layer of soil. Channel around that, and let it collapse all the way down to the pit you created. Roof it over. Muddy it. Trees will grow - http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/207/indoortreeqt8.png. --[[User:Xaddak|Xaddak]] 16:18, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

I noticed after digging a moat, that trees were growing there. Granted that I embarked at a place with a pretty high tree density, I believe that trees only need to be outside/above ground/light/on soil(not sure which combination). Can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 21:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've verified. The time, needed to grow is 1.5 years, not 3! At Pagebend, my current fort, treefarm was muddied at the late spring of 303, and now it's early winter of 304 and I already have some fully matured tower-caps! Changing article--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Deciduousness ==

I'm assuming that the "Autumnal" heading in the table was referring to trees whose leaves change colour in the autumn. I've changed the heading to "Deciduous", because as far as I am aware "Autumnal" is used to describe a tree currently undergoing the colour change, rather than a tree which is capable of it. Fun with pedantry! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:49, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Supports ==

I know it sounds crazy but once in adventure mode I smashed a Wolf onto a tree from the z-level above it. The dead body of the wolf stayed there for until I used the Travel Mode thing. Can anyone back this up? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 03:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah it happens. Trees support objects. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 02:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Indeed, I had a dead troll fall on a tree, what a mess. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Would the object in the tree join the wood pile made if the tree was chopped down? Can this be verified? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 13:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Yep, when I chopped down the tree my woodcutter was hip deep in troll chunks and ichor-stained clothing. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:45, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Default density ==

As the subject says. What is the default density? It lists several trees as having 'default' density, but I can't find what the default density actually is, anywhere. --[[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 19:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Greenhouse" Trees ==

Does an area have to be light, or above ground, to grow normal trees? I've been thinking of making a glass greenhouse to grow a large patch of trees. --[[User:Eb|Eb]] 07:16, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:you need 2 deep soil to grow trees.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== List of trees, each one an article ==

I added/created articles for each tree in the list. They only redirect to the table, since we don't have a lot of useful info of them yet to create an article. Like that, we remove some red ugly link, and people can link to these tree, in case, someday, they start to have more differences and need an article of their own. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 07:39, 27 January 2009 (EST)

== Treehuggers ==

I just realized that it's been a while, and at least a few [[version]] {{version|0.28.181.40d}} upgrades, since I've seen those annoying [[elves]] complain about my rampant deforestation habits. What percentage of a map's [[trees]] do I have to plunder before they start demanding I cap my demand? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 23:13, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:I have seen them complain in the .40d vanilla. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weights ==

What are the different weights of the wood for each tree? Should those be in the table? I know feather trees are unnaturally light and can be used to produce very light barrels as a result, for instance. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 20:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:That might be redundant. I think the feather tree is the only tree with a different weight, though I haven't checked. If every type of wood has a different weight, then certainly this is relevant. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 19:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Each wood have a specific weight (Which is under the "Density" column). Take a look at raw\objects\matgloss_wood.txt for the density of each type if you want. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 21:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
::: A tree's weight is based on its density, however, because density is such a large number, it takes quite a difference in density to make any in an object's weight. Except for feather trees, I am pretty sure that all of the rest of the trees are to close in densities to have different weights. --[[User:I2amroy|I2amroy]] 15:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: A pine bin : 56; Cedar bin : 38; Larch Bin : 59; tower-cap Bin : 60; Pine have a density of 560 , cedar one of 380, larch 590, and tower-cap 600. So density do have a role with the weight. Bin use 1/10 of the density, bed use 1/4 of it. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

::::While they tend to be close, it does make a significant difference in heavier items, and when you're giving troops gear (namely [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] who are weighed down by a big ol' stack of ammo), every unit of weight counts. Even more importantly, [[trade]]rs are limited by weight, and the heavier the log, the more room it takes up. So a caravan hauling cedar, willow, and feather tree logs is going to have more room for other stuff than a caravan hauling oak, maple, and glumprong. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Forest density ==

There seems to be some sort of tree limit, as if you embark on a heavy forest 6x6 and a half heavy forest half mountain you will get the same trees on embark, just a thicker forest. It's very noticeable [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== Outdoor rock able to grow trees? ==

I embarked on a map that has about 3/4 of the map in dolomite mountain, and the other 1/4 with a few trees and shrubs. It's a decent amount of trees, but I was wondering if I were to muddy the stone, that is, the stone right by the grass that is in complete daylight, would the now muddied soil grow trees? Or because it was in a "different biome" (even though it's just a couple tiles away) would it not grow anything? Or maybe it wouldn't grow because it's muddy dolomite, and trees can only grow on soil types? Or maybe this would work? I'm going to test it out, but it might take a while because my fortress is fairly new.

40d Talk:Tree

2009-07-29T15:39:50Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Outdoor rock able to grow trees? */ new section

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
::tower caps require moving water, and can supposedly spawn next to damp wall that fufills that requirement(moving water)– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:eerr|eerr]]
::Moving water is not necessary. Mud is fine. A damp wall doesn't cut it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:29, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay, this was a bit complex, so bear with me here - I dug out a pit underground, and channeled it out so it extended all the way to the layer that was the surface, BUT left the surface layer untouched. Not just the floor, but the actual layer of soil. Channel around that, and let it collapse all the way down to the pit you created. Roof it over. Muddy it. Trees will grow - http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/207/indoortreeqt8.png. --[[User:Xaddak|Xaddak]] 16:18, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

I noticed after digging a moat, that trees were growing there. Granted that I embarked at a place with a pretty high tree density, I believe that trees only need to be outside/above ground/light/on soil(not sure which combination). Can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 21:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've verified. The time, needed to grow is 1.5 years, not 3! At Pagebend, my current fort, treefarm was muddied at the late spring of 303, and now it's early winter of 304 and I already have some fully matured tower-caps! Changing article--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Deciduousness ==

I'm assuming that the "Autumnal" heading in the table was referring to trees whose leaves change colour in the autumn. I've changed the heading to "Deciduous", because as far as I am aware "Autumnal" is used to describe a tree currently undergoing the colour change, rather than a tree which is capable of it. Fun with pedantry! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:49, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Supports ==

I know it sounds crazy but once in adventure mode I smashed a Wolf onto a tree from the z-level above it. The dead body of the wolf stayed there for until I used the Travel Mode thing. Can anyone back this up? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 03:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah it happens. Trees support objects. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 02:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Indeed, I had a dead troll fall on a tree, what a mess. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Would the object in the tree join the wood pile made if the tree was chopped down? Can this be verified? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 13:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Yep, when I chopped down the tree my woodcutter was hip deep in troll chunks and ichor-stained clothing. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:45, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Default density ==

As the subject says. What is the default density? It lists several trees as having 'default' density, but I can't find what the default density actually is, anywhere. --[[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 19:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Greenhouse" Trees ==

Does an area have to be light, or above ground, to grow normal trees? I've been thinking of making a glass greenhouse to grow a large patch of trees. --[[User:Eb|Eb]] 07:16, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:you need 2 deep soil to grow trees.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== List of trees, each one an article ==

I added/created articles for each tree in the list. They only redirect to the table, since we don't have a lot of useful info of them yet to create an article. Like that, we remove some red ugly link, and people can link to these tree, in case, someday, they start to have more differences and need an article of their own. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 07:39, 27 January 2009 (EST)

== Treehuggers ==

I just realized that it's been a while, and at least a few [[version]] {{version|0.28.181.40d}} upgrades, since I've seen those annoying [[elves]] complain about my rampant deforestation habits. What percentage of a map's [[trees]] do I have to plunder before they start demanding I cap my demand? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 23:13, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:I have seen them complain in the .40d vanilla. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weights ==

What are the different weights of the wood for each tree? Should those be in the table? I know feather trees are unnaturally light and can be used to produce very light barrels as a result, for instance. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 20:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:That might be redundant. I think the feather tree is the only tree with a different weight, though I haven't checked. If every type of wood has a different weight, then certainly this is relevant. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 19:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Each wood have a specific weight (Which is under the "Density" column). Take a look at raw\objects\matgloss_wood.txt for the density of each type if you want. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 21:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
::: A tree's weight is based on its density, however, because density is such a large number, it takes quite a difference in density to make any in an object's weight. Except for feather trees, I am pretty sure that all of the rest of the trees are to close in densities to have different weights. --[[User:I2amroy|I2amroy]] 15:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: A pine bin : 56; Cedar bin : 38; Larch Bin : 59; tower-cap Bin : 60; Pine have a density of 560 , cedar one of 380, larch 590, and tower-cap 600. So density do have a role with the weight. Bin use 1/10 of the density, bed use 1/4 of it. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

::::While they tend to be close, it does make a significant difference in heavier items, and when you're giving troops gear (namely [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] who are weighed down by a big ol' stack of ammo), every unit of weight counts. Even more importantly, [[trade]]rs are limited by weight, and the heavier the log, the more room it takes up. So a caravan hauling cedar, willow, and feather tree logs is going to have more room for other stuff than a caravan hauling oak, maple, and glumprong. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Forest density ==

There seems to be some sort of tree limit, as if you embark on a heavy forest 6x6 and a half heavy forest half mountain you will get the same trees on embark, just a thicker forest. It's very noticeable [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== Outdoor rock able to grow trees? ==

I embarked on a map that has about 3/4 of the map in dolomite mountain, and the other 1/4 with a few trees and shrubs. It's a decent amount of trees, but I was wondering if I were to muddy the stone, that is, the stone right by the grass that is in complete daylight, would the now muddied soil grow trees? Or because it was in a "different biome" (even though it's just a couple tiles away) would it not grow anything?

40d:Clothing industry

2009-07-29T14:36:27Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Creating dye */

This article is a quick guide to running a self-sufficient '''clothing industry'''.

==Plants or Silk==
''Requires: A [[farm]], a [[farmer]], and the appropriate [[seeds]]'' 
and/or: ''A [[weaver]], a [[loom]], and spider webs''

There are six [[crops]] that you can [[Farming|grow]] that are used in the clothing industry, and three types of raw silk that can be harvested with varying degrees of difficulty. Above-ground crops can be [[herbalist|gathered]] rather than farmed, if you don't mind having an unpredictable harvest. If you are lucky enough to have spiders on your map, or unlucky enough to have [[giant cave spider]]s on your map, you can produce silk cloth in addition to plant fiber cloth. If you would prefer not to worry about creating the raw materials, you can usually [[Trading|trade]] for thread and dyes.

=====Under ground crops=====
*[[Pig tail]]s are used to make [[#Thread|thread]], and can be grown in Summer and Autumn.
*[[Dimple cup]]s are used to make [[#Dyeing|dye]], and can be grown all year round.

=====Above ground crops=====
*[[Rope reed]] is used to make [[#Thread|thread]], and can be grown all year round.
*[[Hide root]], [[Sliver barb]] and [[Blade weed]] can be used to make [[#Dyeing|dye]], and can be grown all year round.

=====Silk=====
*Raw [[silk]] is harvested from spider webs created by [[phantom spider]]s, [[cave spider]]s, and [[giant cave spider]]s.

==Thread==
''Requires: A [[farmer's workshop]], a [[thresher]], and the appropriate [[#plants|plant]]'' 
and/or: ''A [[weaver]], a [[loom]], and spider webs''

To create thread from harvested plants, you must {{k|q}}uery the [[farmer's workshop]] and order it to {{k|p}}rocess the pig tails and/or rope reed. Creating thread from silk is somewhat easier: if there are spider [[web]]s available on your map, dwarves with the [[weaving]] labor enabled will gather the webs and automatically spin them into [[silk]] thread. You may want to make sure that your dwarves are not trying to gather webs from a [[giant cave spider]] without a military escort -- check the {{k|u}}nits list to see if any non-[[vermin]] spiders are listed.

==Cloth==
''Requires: A [[loom]], a [[weaver]], and spider [[web]]s or plant fiber [[#Thread|thread]]''

By default any thread produced will be automatically woven at the [[loom]]. Plant fibers will be queued for weaving into cloth as soon as they are processed at the [[farmer's workshop]]. Dwarves will automatically gather [[giant cave spider|spider]] silk if it's available, spin it into [[silk]] thread, and this thread will also be automatically woven into silk [[cloth]]. If you prefer to create dyed cloth by dyeing the thread beforehand, you may want to Set Workshop [[Orders]] so that dwarves only weave [[#Dyeing|dyed]] thread. Cloth can still be dyed after weaving.

==Clothes==
''Requires: A [[clothier's shop]], a [[clothier]], and some [[#Cloth|cloth]]''

Once the cloth is ready you can sew it into [[clothes]], either for [[trading]] or for your own [[dwarves]] to wear. The clothier's shop is also where you can [[decorate]] cloth items with a sewn image. Decorating an imported item (e.g. [[narrow]] goblin clothing) makes it local for purposes of trade offerings, and depending on the quality of the decoration can add significant value to an item. [[Rope]]s and [[bag]]s are all also produced at the clothier's shop. Bags are critical to establishing a [[glass industry]].

==Dyeing==
Dyeing is very useful because it adds to the [[value]] of the finished clothes. You can dye either thread or cloth to increase its value. Cloth created from dyed thread cannot be dyed.
=====Creating dye=====
''Requires: A [[millstone]] or [[quern]], a [[miller]], an empty [[bag]], and the appropriate [[#Plants|plant]]''

Once you have harvested or bought the plants, you can mill them into dye.

=====Using dye=====
''Requires: A [[dyer's shop]], a [[dyer]], and some dye''

Having the dye, you can dip the clothes or thread into it to increase its value.

==Summary==
=====Required worker / labor=====
*[[Grower]] / Field working
*[[Thresher]] / Plant processor
*[[Weaver]] / Weaving
*[[Clothier]] / Clothes making
*[[Miller]] / [[Milling]]
*[[Dyer]] / Dyeing

=====Required buildings=====
*[[Farm]]
*[[Farmer's workshop]]
*[[Loom]]
*[[Clothier's shop]]
*Either a [[Millstone]] or a [[Quern]]
**A Millstone requires a millstone item and a power connection. A Quern only requires a quern item.
*[[Dyer's shop]] which also requires
**[[Barrel]]
**[[Bucket]]

==Sample Industry Plan==

If your intent is to produce equal volumes of thread and dye (so that all of your thread can be dyed) then you could establish a year-round growing cycle with two equally-sized plots above and below ground as follows:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
!
! Spring
! Summer
! Autumn
! Winter
|-
| '''Underground'''
| [[Dimple cup]]
| [[Pig tail]]
| [[Pig tail]]
| [[Dimple cup]]
|-
| '''Above ground'''
| [[Rope reed]]
| [[Sliver barb]]
| [[Blade weed]]
| [[Rope reed]]
|}
This will give you one cloth crop and one dye crop each harvest. This is not the only way to do it, but it is an example of a growing plan that will keep a [[miller]], a [[thresher]], a [[dyer]], a [[weaver]], and some [[grower]]s employed evenly year-round and provide high-value materials for any tailors in your fort. If you have access to [[silk]] on your map, you may prefer to substitute a food crop for one of the fiber crops, or brew the excess [[pig tail]] into [[dwarven ale]].

Large fields, [[fertilizer]], and skilled [[grower]]s will produce more raw materials; skilled craftsdwarves will use up the materials faster. Choose the largest plot size you can sustainably plant and harvest, because eventually your craftsdwarves will be able to go through materials faster than you can grow them and you'll find yourself queueing up new orders each season. To boost profits, set your workshop [[orders]] to use only dyed thread, leave out [[hide root]] from your growing plan because of its lower [[item value]], and keep the supply channels full of plant products so that you've always got materials to support standing (repeat) work orders.

----

'''See Also'''
*[[Clothing]]
*[[Leather industry]]
*[[Farming]]
*[[Industry]]

{{Farming FAQ}}
{{Workshops FAQ}}
[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Materials]]
[[Category:Industry]]

40d Talk:Cage

2009-05-11T21:06:00Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Animal Stockpile doesn't move caged animals */

==Assigning animals / building cages==
How do you put more than one animal in a cage? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 11:41, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Once you hit (A)ssign, you should have a list of all tame animals in your fort. From here you can toggle whether or not a given animal is assigned to that cage by hitting Enter. You can do this for a number of creatures at once. Creatures already assigned to a cage or chain will have [A] out to the right of their listing. IIRC, there is a limit on the number of critters in a cage, but it's pretty high. One nice benefit is that if you put a male and female of the same species in a cage together, they can still breed.--[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 12:25, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Um...
::(A)ssign? Uh, I don't see that. (a) is announcements, and (A) does nothing. I can see a list of animals with both (u) and (z)->Animals, but they only let me assign to owners, slaughter, etc. Do I need a specific noble? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:41, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::Ah, hold on. I appear to have only caught untamable creatures (yay... I guess). Does (A)ssign only work if I have caged, tame creatures? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:::Cage options menu, I think {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:48, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::::Wow, I'm being really awkward here. Sorry. {{k|q}} and {{k|t}} both give me options about the animal stockpile the cages are sitting on, or the ground below that. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:55, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Ahh, now I see the problem. You have to {{k|b}}uild the cage first, which moves it from the stockpile to whatever location you specify, then you can assign animals to it. Animal stockpiles just serve as collection points for your trappers to dump off their catch, or for new animals bought from caravans.--[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 13:19, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::::::AHA! I see it now. Thanks for your help! [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 13:37, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Possible addition ==

Maybe worth adding to the article : How do you empty cages of bones and seeds? What's the best way to get rid an untameable creature in a cage? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 21:15, 13 November 2007 (EST)
Answer to both questions is lava. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 17:21, 23 December 2007 (EST)
:Alternatively, if you're just trying to get them out, melting the cage will work as well. (assuming metal of course)
::bones and seeds in a cage can be dumped, the cage will remain where it is. Lava and melting will destroy the cage too, so thats not exactly helpful.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:59, 2 March 2008 (EST)

You can build the cage and use {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|d}} over the builded cage to dump all items in it. This includes the items of the caged creature but not the creature itself. --[[User:TCPR|TCPR]] 15:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

== Captured thieves ==
So, if you manage to catch a thief or a snatcher in a cage trap '''after''' he has already managed to steal something/one, is there any way to get it off him, without releasing and killing him in process?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:35, 13 January 2008 (EST)

:There might conceivably be some way to make him go [[melancholy]], at which point he might ditch all his items. I wouldn't know how to induce it, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:43, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Found this at forum: You can find the items, carried by caged goblins/kobolds/whatever in the stocks menu and designate them for dumping, then dwarves will strip the prisoner. Cant check now. Anyone, confirm?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:06, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Yep, this works. Got a human macelord in cage, found (*steel morningstar*) at stock menu, {{K|z}}oomed to it - it pointed on macelord's cage so, it's his morningstar, {{K|d}}umped it, and voila: a dwarf comes to cage and gets morningstar out. The only thing unclear - how do you free a child from a bag?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:39, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:Magma works well I hear. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]

:Alright, so this works with dumping. If I designate an item to be melted, will the furnace operator come take it off the captured goblin? How about if I have a standing order to improve clothing? Will my clothier come and take the (narrow cave spider silk trousers) and sew his cloth image on them? Or is actual dumping the only way? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 09:12, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Dissapearing metal cages ==

I keep trying to make metal cages for a prison, but each time it gets completed the smith stands around a while and then it just dissapears. He doesn't even put it on a stockpile. Can anyone tell me what's happening?
—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Have you tried tracking the cage in the stocks menu? Are you sure it disappeared? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:44, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:check with {{key|t}} if the cage is still in the workshop - also, u need an animal stockpile (not a furniture one)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:42, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== '''Stopping''' certain dwarves from un/caging ==

All right, I know how to {{key|q}}{{key|a}}sign animals to a cage. But even with [[animal hauling]] turned off, my dwarves still love putting furries into cages - how do I make it so that only my animal carers and animal trainers do this job? My miner drags herself from one end of the mine to the other to do this job![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:44, 13 February 2008 (EST)

:Did you try with both hauling and care off? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:17, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::All of my trades-dwarves (carpenters, miners, woodcutters etc) have '''only''' the following enabled: their trade, Health Care ('cause I don't want anyone to die for no real reason), Burial ('cause if they do die I wanna get rid of the evidence), and Cleaning (cause from what I hear, dwarves clean less than I do even with that one turned on). So yeah, I've got both Animal Hauling AND Animal Care turned off AFAIK.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:::yep, seems anyone will cage/uncage. no way to stop it. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:43, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Confirming having children in cages ==

I noticed that the page says it's unsure whether or not animals can bear children when while in cages. To my experience they do, I recently had some donkey foals born when everything but my wardogs were caged up. They were also standing around right next to the cages. Anyone care to confirm this so we can add it to the page? --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 3:14, 28 March 2008 (EST)
:It says 'It is unsure if animals in a cage will mate, but animals can bear children when caged.' You just approved second part. What are you going to change?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:01, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
: I get what you're saying, I think. I'll spade it a little more to see if the couple continues to bear children even though they're both in the cage at all time before I consider changing anything.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 5:34, 28 March 2008 (EST)
:: I'm still on it too. I'm waiting for the last offspring to be adults to make sure this isn't blocking new ones, plus 3 years to be sure, but it looks like the donkeys and groundhogs have really stopped breeding and the rest too. The requirements for getting pregnant seem to be rather low; having a free male and female ''somewhere'' on the map for a short time seems to be enough. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:58, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
: I've confirmed that caged animals do not, in fact, mate. I did a controlled study with animals in cages, specifically with dogs. I brought along two dogs on a new fortress. As soon as they had puppies, I slaughtered the parents and caged the puppies. As immigrants came along, all newborn puppies were immediately caged, and I paid specific attention to which animals were giving birth. Over a 5 year period, 12 puppies matured into dogs (2 are still puppies), none of which gave birth. The only source of puppies were the pets. --[[User:JeebusSez|JeebusSez]] 22:10, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
:: animals reproduce asexually anyway, for some reason - i had a walled up puppy that grew up and had a puppy of its own, as well as a single (tame) mountain goat in my fortress, which had two sets of kids - i butchered the first lot so no, they didnt impregnate their mother... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 16:45, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:::Every fortress I've ever played contradicts what is reported here. I've never seen a tame animal in a cage *not* breed. I've been caging and breeding tame animals (captured and imported) since 2D. I suppose I'll have to do some more testing. Not so sure why the user was able to produce these results. I'm also confused as to why they would slaughter the parents and what sort of effect that is supposed to have on the data. It could be that this somehow prevents the puppies from ever learning how to breed, or some other strange effect. See the picture at [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Talk:Meat_industry#Contact_for_breeding|the discussion for the meat industry.][[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 16:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

::::I store all my puppies in cages aside from a chained male/female/female. Never have had a matured dog in a cage give birth. Isn't this something that has been tested/confirmed before? The standard advice on the forums is to cage cats to prevent breeding, and it seems to solve the problems. Slaughtering the parents wouldn't cause some strange effect as children don't learn anything from parents currently. How did you do your testing? If they were matured when you stuck them in the cage then chances are they were already pregnant thanks to the spores effect. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 17:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Cages and Fluids ==
Do creatures need to breath in a cage? If you have an unconstructed/constructed cage underwater does the inhabitant drown? If you have a unconstructed/constructed magma-proof cage under magma does the inhabitant burn up? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 08:29, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:Here is the experiment I conducted:
:* built a large deep empty pool
:* put a goblin cage and a cage stockpile at the bottom of it
:* waiting for a dwarf to put some goblin cages in the stockpile
:* turned on the pumps to flood the room
:* had a dwarf throw (pit/pond) another goblin into the pool
:* waiting until the thrown (pit/ponded) goblin drowned and then emptied the pool
:Results: Neither the goblins in the constructed cage or the goblins in the unconstructed cage in the stockpile died. So in conclusion it appears that caged creatures do not need air. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:25, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

::Does this also hold for fish? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:11, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Knowing the questionable physics of DF, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that both land animals and fish in the same cage need neither air nor water, simultaneously. A kind of quantum stasis or cryogenics. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== Building materials ==
It appears that it takes four bars of metal to make a cage. How many logs of wood? How many bags of sand? These are things it would be nice to have in the article. --[[User:zombiejustice|zombiejustice]] 00:51, 03 June 2008 (CDT)

== Trading caged animals ==

Okay, so I just tried ordering my caged [[Fire Imp]] (wooden cage, go figure ^_^) to the trade depot so that the humans could take it away. A dwarf instead opened the cage and let the thing go, and the now empty cage was taken to the depot. Fortunately the humans smote it before it could set anything alight, but it would've been nice to sell the thing to them, so they could've smitten it on their own time. Does this always happen with caged wild animals? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:28, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:Like anything else being taken to the [[trade depot]] - order the [[container]] (in this case the cage) to be taken to the depot not the contents. You ordered just the contents, so they took just the contents out of the container.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
::Not so. I've just tried with a "dog cage (Acacia)". The relevant cage shows up under both "pets" and "cages" sections of the "bring to depot" list. ''Neither'' of these options caused the dog to be released from the cage. And if I'd selected the fire imp rather than the cage, then why would the (then empty) cage be taken to the depot? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
:To answer my own question, this is [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html#Bug41 known bug #000041] (means it's been around a while, I guess!). As mentioned in [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000444 this forum thread]. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:34, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
:On the other hand, if you don't feel like spending time setting up mechanisms and pulling levers, and you happen to be trading, this is a decent way to free up cage traps while letting your military practice. Station your military by the cage traps, mark them for trade, and watch the sparks fly. The civilians always run away right quick while the military fills the trapped goblins/animals with bloody holes. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:33, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Training Vermin in Cages ==

How can you train them? I want some rats, dragonflies, and some lizards as pets.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 03:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
: You train animals in a kennel ({{key|b}}->{{key|k}}), by a Dwarf with the Animal Trainer skill activated. Depending on the animal, you either use the command to train a small animal or a large animal. I'm not sure right now of the condition of the cage or trap in which the animal is stored but I am sure it has to be stock{{key|p}}iled, at least. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 18:56, 24 February 2009 (EST)

== Cage Trading Caveats-Elves ==

I'm not sure it's directly relevant to pretty much anything, but I found the section about elves trading wounded animals to be very interesting. Has anyone here read [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_and_Ladies_(novel) "Lords and Ladies"], from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series? In it, elves are described as being particularly cruel, and are said to be good at keeping creatures alive- sometimes for months(with the suggestion being that they torture them ''very slowly'' to death).

Could DF elves perhaps be similar? Apparently Discworld elves are based off [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves_(Discworld) pre-Tolkien British and European folklore,] but I don't know enough about that to be able to draw a reasonable conclusion.
Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. Perhaps it's not actually a bug? ;) --[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]]

==Animal Stockpile doesn't move caged animals==
I built a cage and assigned creatures to it. I assumed they would take that cage to the animal stockpile. It makes sense. So far all they've taken there is my empty cage. I'm guessing that I'm doing it wrong, that building cages is not the way to move them (maybe once they're built, they're forever immobile until you unbuild them?). But how do you capture animals in a cage without building the cage?

:You have some of it right, but you're confusing about 3 different actions, all of which are explained on their own wiki pages.

:You {{key|b}}uild a [[cage]] if you want to un/assign creatures to that cage ''(or designate it as a [[jail]] - but chains are deemed better)'' - the cage then becomes a structure, the same as a door or bridge, until deconstructed. Once deconstructed, it then again becomes a portable item, with any and all creatures still inside.*

::''(* FYI - a cage with many animals is HEAVY. A dwarf could take a long time to move something like that. Still might be faster than the alternatives, but be aware.)''

:You can designate an animal [[stockpile|stock{{key|p}}ile]] and cages and/or animals in cages will be moved there for storage - but you can't interact much with them at that point, until the cage is built somewhere. There is an option ({{key|u}}, iirc?) that allows you to toggle whether empty cages are allowed. {{key|f}}orbiding all animals but allowing empty cages gets you a stockpile full of... empty cages.

:To capture a large creature, you must use a [[mechanism]] and {{key|c}}onstruct a cage [[trap|{{key|T}}rap]] ({{key|c}}, {{key|T}}, {{key|c}}). To capture vermin, you must {{key|q}}uery a kennel or butcher's shop and have a [[trapper]] try to catch them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, thanks so much. I'm dumb. It makes sense. I didn't realize that you could deconstruct a cage and keep the creatures inside, I should've tried that or just read the article more carefully. Many thanks.

40d Talk:Hatch cover

2009-05-11T21:01:41Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Not Trap Doors */

can be made from wood at the carpenter's shop too

This should be merged with the other [[Hatch Cover]] topic - I didn't realise this one existed already as I was working from the [[Furniture]] category. [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 04:45, 5 November 2007 (EST)
: Done. See [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|Rule P]]. Old topic seemed to be a stub and is archived here:<blockquote>Constructed from [[stone]] (and perhaps other materials) at the [[Mason's workshop]]. Used to build a [[Floor Hatch|floor hatch]].</blockquote> --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 05:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Cleaning up ==

I think this article should be merged with [[floor hatch]] into a single '''Hatch''' one (a bit like [[door]]). Currently, '''Hatch''' redirects to [[floor hatch]].--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:26, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've merged everything to ''here'', perhaps an admin can move to [[Hatch]] rather than cutting and pasting to there. [[User:Marasmusine|Marasmusine]] 06:29, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

== Destroyable? ==

Can floor hatches be destroyed? I'm assuming not, but will my otherwise nigh-impervious tower be destroyed if a dragon comes to town?

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:17, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Not Trap Doors ==
One cannot make trap doors out of wall hatches since the pressure plate cannot be on the same tile. One could build a collapsing floor trap with [[support|supports]], but hatches wouldn't work.

:Hey, who said that trap floors have to be for 1 unit? I dunno about you, but having a hall full of hatches that trigger when you reach near the end sounds pretty entertaining... Having 10 goblins simultaneously fall into a pit of lava below... Haha.

==Inside/Outside?==
Can hatches be used to toggle an area between "outside/inside"? [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 14:45, 31 January 2009 (EST)
:No. They cannot. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:36, 23 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Magma

2009-05-09T17:48:53Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Items Caught In Cooling Magma */

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Hidden Magma Pipe ==
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?

::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Traffic

2009-05-09T17:48:08Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Animals */

== Trampling food ==

"Also route them around food stockpiles, as food can get trampled, and if it happens to be a masterwork cooked dish, expect an insane cook."

Is this true? Did this change in the new version? Has anyone actually experienced such damage, unequivocally caused by traffic?

I remember some discussion of this long ago with the old version, but it turned out not to be damage due to traffic. (I think it was temperature?) —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:54, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:It was a temperature effect, according to Toady. I don't think this has changed. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:20, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::Going to remove it from the main page then, as I've never experienced trampling of things in stockpiles either. -[[User:twincannon|twincannon]]

== Effect on FPS ==

Has anyone experienced an increase or decrease in FPS when traffic zones are used heavily? I was just wondering if this helps or hurts pathfinding algorithms and how it affects game speed. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:14, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I haven't seen much effect on FPS personally, but the algorithm Toady One uses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_star) typically has a heuristic which assumes that all tiles are weighted equally. Generally speaking, adding tiles with high movement costs can cause A* to search much larger areas than it would normally. If you are only restricting small, non-chokepoint areas though, it should never be an issue, as A* will find a route adjacent to the restricted tiles, if possible. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 02:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

: I'm conducting some experiments along this line now. If I understand A-star correctly, you can greatly reduce the search space by creating freeways through cavernous rooms. In this case a "freeway" is a high-traffic path between two points, bounded by two low-traffic virtual walls. As long as the freeway closely approximates the shortest distance between those points, the algorithm will take your designations as "good advice" and not search very far outside the path. If you think of high-traffic areas as low-friction valleys, and low-traffic and restricted areas as hills and cliffs respectively, you're essentially channeling the dwarves like water. Some may splash over the edges, but generally it'll stay in the ditch you've dug for it. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 18:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:: Do you, or somebody else understanding that better than me, make a diagram or a visual display of this traffic pattern ? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 18:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

::: I'll see if I can rig up a diagram this weekend. I noticed that I saw as much as a 15 FPS increase (from 30 to 45) when I implemented this, which is 50%, but there are many other factors in my fort: running water, animals, and major dumping operations. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 15:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== Jobs & pathfinding ==

I think there should be some mentions of what traffic controls, and workarounds for common problems here. For example, Traffic designations don't work for me to prevent a dwarf from standing on the wrong side of a moat while he's channeling. My current work around for this is to place a wall where I don't want him to stand, then suspend it. Then I remove the suspended wall once the channel is dug. Also, another confusing point is that traffic restriction apparently has little/no impact on job ordering. For example, say you are constructing concentric moats, and you'd like your dwarves to start on the inner moat first, then, when thats done, work on the next outer moat. Traffic restrictions will not force them to dig the inner channel first. I don't currently have a workaround for this style of problem; the wall thing doesn't seem to work for it.
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 12:38, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:Traffic designations only affect path preferences when pathfinding. Dwarves choose their destinations without thinking about them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:A good example of traffic control would be to designate a main underground tunnel as high traffic, so that dwarves aren't trying to find shortcuts by going outside. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 02:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

== Animals ==

I just read in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22626.0 that animals will use some kind of inverse-priority for traffic designations - preferring restricted zones, and avoiding high-traffic. This should be confirmed and added as a note to the article, if true. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:13, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:Read further into the article, Toady says that animals don't do any sort of reverse pathing due to restricted traffic, but simply ignore traffic designations. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Cage

2009-05-09T17:03:21Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

40d Talk:Magma

2009-05-05T20:16:07Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Items Caught In Cooling Magma */

40d Talk:Magma

2009-05-05T10:00:38Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Hidden Magma Pipe */

40d Talk:Magma

2009-05-05T00:34:35Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

40d Talk:Item quality

2009-05-04T03:08:31Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

With regard to dwarves throwing a fit if a masterwork item is destroyed; I accidentally wrecked a masterwork engraving by having my miners dig out the other side of the wall where it was engraved. Sure enough, the engraver proceeded to make a fuss.

Then he scheduled a meeting with my broker/manager/leader dwarf. After the meeting I checked the engravers moods and saw the message "He recently yelled at a superior, but this only made him more angry" (not a direct quote). I'm wondering, does this mean that if the appropriate noble (I'm guessing the leader) has decent social skills they can actually get a tantruming dwarf to calm down and get back to work.

:Might be worth further investigation.--[[User:WyldKarde|WyldKarde]] 17:22, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:Curious. Makes me wish Toady let out a little bit more info than he does about his game (we still don't know how combat works). But then again, it adds another level to an already deep game.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:The consoler skill allows a noble or whoever the dwarf talks to to calm the tantrum dwarf down. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 03:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
== Trading masterpieces. ==

As far as I can make out, masterpieces can be traded without a tantrum. Can anyone confirm this? Is it worth adding? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:38, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:I traded away a half-dozen masterwork stonecrafts to the elves this Spring. So far, no reaction from my craftsdwarf, and the elves have left the map (it's been 2 months). So I'd say, conservatively, that you can at least trade stonecrafts. If this is true in general, then trading might be the safest thing to do with your masterworks. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

::I've traded various masterwork crafts and masterwork prepared food so I'd tend to agree. My first response to most masterwork items is to try this as it saves a lot of hassle :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:::So how bad is it to have Masterwork or Masterwork adorned clothing on your dwarfs? [[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 22:14, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

::::The stuff eventually rots and gets thrown away, causing the dwarf who made it to tantrum. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Wear and Tear ==

Wear is similar to quality, in that it adds a symbol notation to the item description - "x" "X" or "XX". I would also be very surprised if it didn't impact the value and effectiveness of an item - in particular, dwarves notice when their clothes start to decay, and give unhappy thoughts. Should we incorporate that material here, or just link to it? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 00:25, 19 November 2007 (EST)
: And while we're at it, for completeness, things can also have decorations «», be imported () or forbidden {}. Any other designations? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 00:32, 19 November 2007 (EST)
: Any idea how wear and tear is calculated? I've have a long-time miner whose clothes are still rather pristine but what my mayor, who did next to nothing, wore was tattered. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 00:54 20 February 2009 (EST)

== Alcohol Quality ==

Is this confirmed? I've never heard of it before, and as fasr as I know, the "had a wonderful drink lately" happy thought just comes from consuming one's favourite drink ("prefers to drink dwarven rum when possible" etc.) --[[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 10:40, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Multiple quality modifiers ==

Does anyone know how to determine the value of items with multiple quality modifiers on them? Like bridges (design quality and construction quality) or clothing (weaving & clothesmaking). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:20, 20 December 2007 (EST)
:I thought that at least bridges have only design quality. All walls constructed with masonry/carpentry/metalsmithing don't have any quality at least. As for clothing - I believe that I've seen well clothing, description of which states that it was made from fine cloth and the thread was dyed with a specific plant extract. The general rule is imho that every multi-staged job uses only 1 skill to determine the quality of the output (always architecture in any construction) but the quality of the materials is preserved (if any at all). One needs to look closer at the values of various multi-quality clothing to determine the value rule in that case. --[[User:Another|Another]] 19:13, 20 December 2007 (EST)
::In fact bridges have two quality modifiers. The design modifier is based on the architect's skill, the construction modifier is based on the builder's masonry skill (or carpentry, or metalsmithing, whichever is appropriate to the given bridge). It's quite difficult to determine the actual value of the bridge, since the value and number of materials used factors in as well. It would probably be easiest to just halt all mining and engraving, build the bridge, and see how much the architecture value of your fortress raises. As far as clothing values go, I believe that dye is counted as a decoration, and the value of the dye, multiplied by the quality of the dye job, is simply added to the value of the clothing. I believe the quality of the cloth is also considered a decoration, using the quality and the base cloth value to calculate the end value. Both dye and cloth quality values are added to the end value of the clothing. Most of this comes from tests done in the old 2D version, and so the formula may have changed, although I doubt it. With skilled weavers and clothiers you can make some ridiculously valuable cloth items out of giant cave spider silk. --[[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 19:01, 20 December 2007 (CST)

== See Also ==

[[Item designations]] 
Perhaps a merge might be nice? --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 22:15, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

:Although Quality creates item designations, they are not at all the same topic. So no. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Meals ==

It says in the article that rotting masterpiece meals gives the maker an unhappy thought, but i have had many masterpiece meals rot without any repercussions. I do remember however that in the 2D version chasming rotten meals would cause the creator to tantrum. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 16:03, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've just had a masterpiece meal rot away, and it did indeed give the creator an unhappy thought. Wasn't enough to bring her down from ecstatic, though, so I've no idea how powerful it is. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:25, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
::Masterpiece destruction is no longer the headache it once was. Used to the loss of a masterpiece would absolutely crush the soul of a dwarf. Removing 1000 mood points. Now it removes mood based on how many other masterpieces they have. So legendary chefs hardly notice when one of their thousands of masterpieces rot. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 01:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::This seems like a REALLY important piece of information; someone may fear a legendary cook without this knowledge. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 17:21, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lower than expected item quality ==

I have just made an observation that appears to contradict the information given on this page. I have a legendary mason (I believe she's at the lower legendary level) who I set to constructing statues. However, one of the statues ended up being merely well-crafted, when according to the table, the lowest possible quality should have been superior. Does anybody know what could explain this occurence, or is the table simply wrong? --[[User:Morlark]]

:Are you certain that no other dwarf could have made the statue? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:12, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

::Absolutely sure. Not only was the workshop set so that only that dwarf could use it, but I was specifically watching the dwarf the whole time. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 01:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Was the dwarf in question unhappy/hungry/thirsty/having-a-negative-status-effect? According to one guy, those cause skill levels to be effectively lowered. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Nope, she was ecstatic, with no negative status effects. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 15:37, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

:It should be noted that the provided table only takes into account a quite small part of the code. There might be external effects. Does the guy dislike the material / item being made? -[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:17, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact quality modifier? ==

I can't find the damage / to-hit / armor modifier values for artifact level items anywhere. Can anyone shed some light on the subject? --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:16, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:The current status of this question is "nobody knows, but we think it's a lot higher than masterpiece." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:06, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've heard somewhere that it's about 500%. I'm not sure about it in any way though. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 20:51, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:::I guess I should've been a bit more specific. The current status of this question is "nobody knows, but we think it's a lot higher than masterpiece. We're going with 500% as an estimate for now." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:45, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, it's in memory the same quality as masterpiece. --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:16, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

::Can you provide concrete confirmation of that? It would go a long ways towards...well, towards exactly this, which would help several pages. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:18, 11 December 2008 (EST)

==Two Quality Levels==

If a clothier were to make a finely crafted image on a piece of clothing, then a bone carver makes a masterpiece decoration on the same thing, how do they determine the quality level? Is it the "average" of the quality levels because, my cook made a roast that had one exceptionally minced ingredient, then two finely minced ingredients and one well minced ingredient it became a fine quality roast which is the average of the qualities.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 02:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Prepared meals seem to have a different quality formula than other objects, although I don't know if that formula is an average of all qualities or something else. For all other objects, decorations have a separate quality from the item's inherent quality (i.e., a *<<+bolt+>>*, where the bolt is + and the decorations are *).--18:50, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Are preferences really more helpful with novices? ==

I just added the "Jump" column to the table on this page. Based on it I think this statement is false:

>Preferences for particular materials and objects make a considerable difference. Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled.

[[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:47, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Well, what's really needed is formal testing of a dwarf working on preferred materials and non-preferred. Might just be one of those DF myths.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:40, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::From the article: "Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled." If this is true, then you can derive from the "Jump" column that gaining subsequent levels does not bring diminishing returns. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:24, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Sorry, I'm totally confused about what you're trying to say here. Higher skill tends to produce higher-quality goods. A preference for the materials being used supposedly also produces higher-quality goods. What's your claim?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:47, 7 December 2008 (EST)

::::I'm trying to say that this bold part is false:
::::>Preferences for particular materials and objects make a considerable difference. Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and '''have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled'''. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:53, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::Oh, okay. Well, you could just drop that part of the sentence. By some thinking, though, it may still be true: goods made by a competent artisan are 81% more valuable (on average) than those made by a dabbler, but goods made by a legend are only (5.8 / 4.8 =) 21% more valuable than those made by a master.
:::::I still think the "jump in value" column is still of very limited use. It shows a trend -- value peaks at each of the levels where a lower quality grade is no longer produced (Proficient, Accomplished, Legendary) -- but dwarves are gaining skill continuously, so it's more of a statistic than anything else. A more interesting statistic is that from dabbling to talented, item values triple; from there to Legendary, they only double. To put it more generally, skill increases produce large value increases at low levels, small increases at high levels.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:19, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::::"To put it more generally, skill increases produce large value increases at low levels, small increases at high levels." No, they only produce larger ''percentage'' increases at low levels. I find the jump column useful to know when to stop leveling up my dwarves and start actually working on stuff. For example, Proficient and Accomplished are both good levels to start actually working. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:03, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:::::::"Working on stuff" and "leveling up" generally happen simultaneously. I guess if you're doing an armorsmith or something and don't want to make crap steel items... but I say make 'em when you need 'em, train continuously otherwise.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:12, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::::::Not in my experience. If I want to level up a mason, I make blocks for constructions. If I want to level up a carpenter, I make bins, barrels, and buckets. With glassmaking, you can make raw glass. Mechanics can start by using common stone and move on to economic stone. Etc. Often things that you "need" can be put off a bit. For example, it takes a while for immigrants to get sleepy... plenty of time to level your carpenter so he can make higher-quality beds. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:31, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::From a fortress perspective, the expected increase in value for a level up is much more important than a percent increase. When a preference makes a novice act like a competent, it's not as good as one that makes an expert act accomplished. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:06, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:: Just yesterday I noticed that one of my seven embarking dwarves preferred alder (wood) and beds, so I made him my carpenter/woodcutter and maxed his skill in carpentry at embark. In the first batch of eight beds I made, I only had one made of alder... but it came out at masterpiece quality. I ''could'' have gotten lucky and rolled a masterpiece bed (approx. 1 in 400 chance), but I suspect that preferences played a role. Since he preferred alder and beds, I let him have the room with the masterpiece in it. He was ecstatic right up until the werewolves ate him.--[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 15:44, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:::Possibly. An unambiguous result would be if a dabbling dwarf who liked the materials/etc. made a specific-quality item. Though it's possible all skill modifiers are inactive for dabblers. The effect should still be most noticeable in a Novice, though... which is almost the exact assertion Gairabad removed from the article.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:13, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:I just saw this for my first time. I was training my cooks/peasants/etc. to dabbling in armorsmithing and weaponsmithing, and a no-skill farmer made a +iron bucker+. When I checked, he had a preference for bucklers. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:32, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== Quality Probability Formulae ==

Could someone who understands that code tell us what it means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
:The assembly code is there to prove my assertion that the dice rolls are independent. There should be just enough commenting that someone skilled in the art can follow along. If you're not skilled in the art, it is essentially gibberish. Which is why I hid it inside a comment. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 06:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
::I don't want to go into a paternity war for something I could not have fathered, but I believe I documented this first, and the table is actually copy-pasted from my page (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User:Bartavelle&oldid=15474), and that's why I changed the discoverer name (actually I'm not sure it is that important to have this name in this page anyway). I'll try to produce a more readable description of the algorithm, but it would be nice if somebody checked the numbers. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:::My bad, this table is not the same table that I produced, and it seems I was right to ask for number checking as mine are probably wrong :) [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
::::This table too is wrong. For novice, quality == 0 is P(d5 >= 1)*P(d10 >= 1)*P(d15 >= 1)*P(d20 >= 1)*P( (d25 >= 1) || (d3>1) ) = 4/5 * 9/10 * 14/15 * 19/20 * (1 - P( d25<1 && d3==1 ) ) =~ 0.63. Or I failed again ... [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

== Experimental values ==
Here are values recorded in a test fortress. The skill value is AFTER the bonuses are applied.

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" valign="bottom"
|-
!Skill !!No quality!!Well-crafted!!Finely-crafted!!Superior quality!!Exceptional!!Masterful
|-
| 0|| 317(100.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 1|| 180(56.25%) || 119(37.19%) || 20(6.25%) || 0(0.00%) || 1(0.31%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 2|| 142(38.59%) || 157(42.66%) || 53(14.40%) || 14(3.80%) || 2(0.54%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 3|| 90(22.22%) || 149(36.79%) || 126(31.11%) || 37(9.14%) || 3(0.74%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 4|| 16(4.68%) || 128(37.43%) || 131(38.30%) || 55(16.08%) || 12(3.51%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 5|| 0(0.00%) || 73(21.16%) || 171(49.57%) || 87(25.22%) || 13(3.77%) || 1(0.29%)
|-
| 6|| 0(0.00%) || 61(16.85%) || 146(40.33%) || 106(29.28%) || 45(12.43%) || 4(1.10%)
|-
| 7|| 0(0.00%) || 28(8.89%) || 112(35.56%) || 122(38.73%) || 48(15.24%) || 5(1.59%)
|-
| 8|| 0(0.00%) || 9(3.90%) || 67(29.00%) || 91(39.39%) || 57(24.68%) || 7(3.03%)
|-
| 9|| 0(0.00%) || 3(1.28%) || 47(20.00%) || 121(51.49%) || 55(23.40%) || 9(3.83%)
|-
| 10|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 30(12.00%) || 125(50.00%) || 85(34.00%) || 10(4.00%)
|-
| 11|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 29(10.94%) || 118(44.53%) || 111(41.89%) || 7(2.64%)
|-
| 12|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 11(3.86%) || 119(41.75%) || 126(44.21%) || 29(10.18%)
|-
| 13|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 11(3.67%) || 103(34.33%) || 155(51.67%) || 31(10.33%)
|-
| 14|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 4(1.27%) || 73(23.17%) || 203(64.44%) || 35(11.11%)
|-
| 15|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 80(23.88%) || 203(60.60%) || 52(15.52%)
|-
| 16|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 54(15.43%) || 240(68.57%) || 56(16.00%)
|-
| 17|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 40(10.96%) || 248(67.95%) || 77(21.10%)
|-
| 18|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 21(7.45%) || 199(70.57%) || 62(21.99%)
|-
| 19|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 6(4.51%) || 93(69.92%) || 34(25.56%)
|-
|}

I'm updating the table with the proper stats.

== Masterpiece destruction and effect on mood ==

Suppose I somehow manage to have a dwarf who's made 10000 masterpieces. Then if one of them gets destroyed, his happiness should decrease by 1000/10000 = 0.1 points. Does this round to 0, or will happiness always decrease by at least 1 point if a masterpiece gets destroyed? [[User:DaPatman|DaPatman]] 23:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It rounds to 0, even if all 10000 get destroyed.
:I coincidentally tested this today, while testing whether destroying mass quantities of objects speeds up the game. (It does.)
:Many thousands of masterpieces were atom-smashed. All the legendary workers who had made them stayed ecstatic. The only worker who became unhappy was a proficient metalcrafter who must have made just a few masterpieces. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 03:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Item quality

2009-05-04T03:08:17Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

With regard to dwarves throwing a fit if a masterwork item is destroyed; I accidentally wrecked a masterwork engraving by having my miners dig out the other side of the wall where it was engraved. Sure enough, the engraver proceeded to make a fuss.

Then he scheduled a meeting with my broker/manager/leader dwarf. After the meeting I checked the engravers moods and saw the message "He recently yelled at a superior, but this only made him more angry" (not a direct quote). I'm wondering, does this mean that if the appropriate noble (I'm guessing the leader) has decent social skills they can actually get a tantruming dwarf to calm down and get back to work.

:Might be worth further investigation.--[[User:WyldKarde|WyldKarde]] 17:22, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:Curious. Makes me wish Toady let out a little bit more info than he does about his game (we still don't know how combat works). But then again, it adds another level to an already deep game.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:The consoler skill allows a noble or whoever the dwarf talks to to calm the tantrum dwarf down.
== Trading masterpieces. ==

As far as I can make out, masterpieces can be traded without a tantrum. Can anyone confirm this? Is it worth adding? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:38, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:I traded away a half-dozen masterwork stonecrafts to the elves this Spring. So far, no reaction from my craftsdwarf, and the elves have left the map (it's been 2 months). So I'd say, conservatively, that you can at least trade stonecrafts. If this is true in general, then trading might be the safest thing to do with your masterworks. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

::I've traded various masterwork crafts and masterwork prepared food so I'd tend to agree. My first response to most masterwork items is to try this as it saves a lot of hassle :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:::So how bad is it to have Masterwork or Masterwork adorned clothing on your dwarfs? [[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 22:14, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

::::The stuff eventually rots and gets thrown away, causing the dwarf who made it to tantrum. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Wear and Tear ==

Wear is similar to quality, in that it adds a symbol notation to the item description - "x" "X" or "XX". I would also be very surprised if it didn't impact the value and effectiveness of an item - in particular, dwarves notice when their clothes start to decay, and give unhappy thoughts. Should we incorporate that material here, or just link to it? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 00:25, 19 November 2007 (EST)
: And while we're at it, for completeness, things can also have decorations «», be imported () or forbidden {}. Any other designations? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 00:32, 19 November 2007 (EST)
: Any idea how wear and tear is calculated? I've have a long-time miner whose clothes are still rather pristine but what my mayor, who did next to nothing, wore was tattered. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 00:54 20 February 2009 (EST)

== Alcohol Quality ==

Is this confirmed? I've never heard of it before, and as fasr as I know, the "had a wonderful drink lately" happy thought just comes from consuming one's favourite drink ("prefers to drink dwarven rum when possible" etc.) --[[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 10:40, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Multiple quality modifiers ==

Does anyone know how to determine the value of items with multiple quality modifiers on them? Like bridges (design quality and construction quality) or clothing (weaving & clothesmaking). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:20, 20 December 2007 (EST)
:I thought that at least bridges have only design quality. All walls constructed with masonry/carpentry/metalsmithing don't have any quality at least. As for clothing - I believe that I've seen well clothing, description of which states that it was made from fine cloth and the thread was dyed with a specific plant extract. The general rule is imho that every multi-staged job uses only 1 skill to determine the quality of the output (always architecture in any construction) but the quality of the materials is preserved (if any at all). One needs to look closer at the values of various multi-quality clothing to determine the value rule in that case. --[[User:Another|Another]] 19:13, 20 December 2007 (EST)
::In fact bridges have two quality modifiers. The design modifier is based on the architect's skill, the construction modifier is based on the builder's masonry skill (or carpentry, or metalsmithing, whichever is appropriate to the given bridge). It's quite difficult to determine the actual value of the bridge, since the value and number of materials used factors in as well. It would probably be easiest to just halt all mining and engraving, build the bridge, and see how much the architecture value of your fortress raises. As far as clothing values go, I believe that dye is counted as a decoration, and the value of the dye, multiplied by the quality of the dye job, is simply added to the value of the clothing. I believe the quality of the cloth is also considered a decoration, using the quality and the base cloth value to calculate the end value. Both dye and cloth quality values are added to the end value of the clothing. Most of this comes from tests done in the old 2D version, and so the formula may have changed, although I doubt it. With skilled weavers and clothiers you can make some ridiculously valuable cloth items out of giant cave spider silk. --[[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 19:01, 20 December 2007 (CST)

== See Also ==

[[Item designations]] 
Perhaps a merge might be nice? --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 22:15, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

:Although Quality creates item designations, they are not at all the same topic. So no. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Meals ==

It says in the article that rotting masterpiece meals gives the maker an unhappy thought, but i have had many masterpiece meals rot without any repercussions. I do remember however that in the 2D version chasming rotten meals would cause the creator to tantrum. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 16:03, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've just had a masterpiece meal rot away, and it did indeed give the creator an unhappy thought. Wasn't enough to bring her down from ecstatic, though, so I've no idea how powerful it is. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:25, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
::Masterpiece destruction is no longer the headache it once was. Used to the loss of a masterpiece would absolutely crush the soul of a dwarf. Removing 1000 mood points. Now it removes mood based on how many other masterpieces they have. So legendary chefs hardly notice when one of their thousands of masterpieces rot. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 01:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::This seems like a REALLY important piece of information; someone may fear a legendary cook without this knowledge. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 17:21, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lower than expected item quality ==

I have just made an observation that appears to contradict the information given on this page. I have a legendary mason (I believe she's at the lower legendary level) who I set to constructing statues. However, one of the statues ended up being merely well-crafted, when according to the table, the lowest possible quality should have been superior. Does anybody know what could explain this occurence, or is the table simply wrong? --[[User:Morlark]]

:Are you certain that no other dwarf could have made the statue? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:12, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

::Absolutely sure. Not only was the workshop set so that only that dwarf could use it, but I was specifically watching the dwarf the whole time. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 01:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Was the dwarf in question unhappy/hungry/thirsty/having-a-negative-status-effect? According to one guy, those cause skill levels to be effectively lowered. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Nope, she was ecstatic, with no negative status effects. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 15:37, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

:It should be noted that the provided table only takes into account a quite small part of the code. There might be external effects. Does the guy dislike the material / item being made? -[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:17, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact quality modifier? ==

I can't find the damage / to-hit / armor modifier values for artifact level items anywhere. Can anyone shed some light on the subject? --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:16, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:The current status of this question is "nobody knows, but we think it's a lot higher than masterpiece." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:06, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've heard somewhere that it's about 500%. I'm not sure about it in any way though. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 20:51, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:::I guess I should've been a bit more specific. The current status of this question is "nobody knows, but we think it's a lot higher than masterpiece. We're going with 500% as an estimate for now." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:45, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, it's in memory the same quality as masterpiece. --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:16, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

::Can you provide concrete confirmation of that? It would go a long ways towards...well, towards exactly this, which would help several pages. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:18, 11 December 2008 (EST)

==Two Quality Levels==

If a clothier were to make a finely crafted image on a piece of clothing, then a bone carver makes a masterpiece decoration on the same thing, how do they determine the quality level? Is it the "average" of the quality levels because, my cook made a roast that had one exceptionally minced ingredient, then two finely minced ingredients and one well minced ingredient it became a fine quality roast which is the average of the qualities.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 02:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Prepared meals seem to have a different quality formula than other objects, although I don't know if that formula is an average of all qualities or something else. For all other objects, decorations have a separate quality from the item's inherent quality (i.e., a *<<+bolt+>>*, where the bolt is + and the decorations are *).--18:50, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Are preferences really more helpful with novices? ==

I just added the "Jump" column to the table on this page. Based on it I think this statement is false:

>Preferences for particular materials and objects make a considerable difference. Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled.

[[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:47, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Well, what's really needed is formal testing of a dwarf working on preferred materials and non-preferred. Might just be one of those DF myths.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:40, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::From the article: "Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled." If this is true, then you can derive from the "Jump" column that gaining subsequent levels does not bring diminishing returns. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:24, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Sorry, I'm totally confused about what you're trying to say here. Higher skill tends to produce higher-quality goods. A preference for the materials being used supposedly also produces higher-quality goods. What's your claim?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:47, 7 December 2008 (EST)

::::I'm trying to say that this bold part is false:
::::>Preferences for particular materials and objects make a considerable difference. Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material), and '''have thus greatest impact when the dwarf is still relatively unskilled'''. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:53, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::Oh, okay. Well, you could just drop that part of the sentence. By some thinking, though, it may still be true: goods made by a competent artisan are 81% more valuable (on average) than those made by a dabbler, but goods made by a legend are only (5.8 / 4.8 =) 21% more valuable than those made by a master.
:::::I still think the "jump in value" column is still of very limited use. It shows a trend -- value peaks at each of the levels where a lower quality grade is no longer produced (Proficient, Accomplished, Legendary) -- but dwarves are gaining skill continuously, so it's more of a statistic than anything else. A more interesting statistic is that from dabbling to talented, item values triple; from there to Legendary, they only double. To put it more generally, skill increases produce large value increases at low levels, small increases at high levels.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:19, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::::"To put it more generally, skill increases produce large value increases at low levels, small increases at high levels." No, they only produce larger ''percentage'' increases at low levels. I find the jump column useful to know when to stop leveling up my dwarves and start actually working on stuff. For example, Proficient and Accomplished are both good levels to start actually working. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:03, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:::::::"Working on stuff" and "leveling up" generally happen simultaneously. I guess if you're doing an armorsmith or something and don't want to make crap steel items... but I say make 'em when you need 'em, train continuously otherwise.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:12, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::::::Not in my experience. If I want to level up a mason, I make blocks for constructions. If I want to level up a carpenter, I make bins, barrels, and buckets. With glassmaking, you can make raw glass. Mechanics can start by using common stone and move on to economic stone. Etc. Often things that you "need" can be put off a bit. For example, it takes a while for immigrants to get sleepy... plenty of time to level your carpenter so he can make higher-quality beds. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:31, 9 December 2008 (EST)

::::From a fortress perspective, the expected increase in value for a level up is much more important than a percent increase. When a preference makes a novice act like a competent, it's not as good as one that makes an expert act accomplished. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:06, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:: Just yesterday I noticed that one of my seven embarking dwarves preferred alder (wood) and beds, so I made him my carpenter/woodcutter and maxed his skill in carpentry at embark. In the first batch of eight beds I made, I only had one made of alder... but it came out at masterpiece quality. I ''could'' have gotten lucky and rolled a masterpiece bed (approx. 1 in 400 chance), but I suspect that preferences played a role. Since he preferred alder and beds, I let him have the room with the masterpiece in it. He was ecstatic right up until the werewolves ate him.--[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 15:44, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:::Possibly. An unambiguous result would be if a dabbling dwarf who liked the materials/etc. made a specific-quality item. Though it's possible all skill modifiers are inactive for dabblers. The effect should still be most noticeable in a Novice, though... which is almost the exact assertion Gairabad removed from the article.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:13, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:I just saw this for my first time. I was training my cooks/peasants/etc. to dabbling in armorsmithing and weaponsmithing, and a no-skill farmer made a +iron bucker+. When I checked, he had a preference for bucklers. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:32, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== Quality Probability Formulae ==

Could someone who understands that code tell us what it means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
:The assembly code is there to prove my assertion that the dice rolls are independent. There should be just enough commenting that someone skilled in the art can follow along. If you're not skilled in the art, it is essentially gibberish. Which is why I hid it inside a comment. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 06:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
::I don't want to go into a paternity war for something I could not have fathered, but I believe I documented this first, and the table is actually copy-pasted from my page (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User:Bartavelle&oldid=15474), and that's why I changed the discoverer name (actually I'm not sure it is that important to have this name in this page anyway). I'll try to produce a more readable description of the algorithm, but it would be nice if somebody checked the numbers. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:::My bad, this table is not the same table that I produced, and it seems I was right to ask for number checking as mine are probably wrong :) [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
::::This table too is wrong. For novice, quality == 0 is P(d5 >= 1)*P(d10 >= 1)*P(d15 >= 1)*P(d20 >= 1)*P( (d25 >= 1) || (d3>1) ) = 4/5 * 9/10 * 14/15 * 19/20 * (1 - P( d25<1 && d3==1 ) ) =~ 0.63. Or I failed again ... [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 08:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

== Experimental values ==
Here are values recorded in a test fortress. The skill value is AFTER the bonuses are applied.

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" valign="bottom"
|-
!Skill !!No quality!!Well-crafted!!Finely-crafted!!Superior quality!!Exceptional!!Masterful
|-
| 0|| 317(100.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 1|| 180(56.25%) || 119(37.19%) || 20(6.25%) || 0(0.00%) || 1(0.31%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 2|| 142(38.59%) || 157(42.66%) || 53(14.40%) || 14(3.80%) || 2(0.54%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 3|| 90(22.22%) || 149(36.79%) || 126(31.11%) || 37(9.14%) || 3(0.74%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 4|| 16(4.68%) || 128(37.43%) || 131(38.30%) || 55(16.08%) || 12(3.51%) || 0(0.00%)
|-
| 5|| 0(0.00%) || 73(21.16%) || 171(49.57%) || 87(25.22%) || 13(3.77%) || 1(0.29%)
|-
| 6|| 0(0.00%) || 61(16.85%) || 146(40.33%) || 106(29.28%) || 45(12.43%) || 4(1.10%)
|-
| 7|| 0(0.00%) || 28(8.89%) || 112(35.56%) || 122(38.73%) || 48(15.24%) || 5(1.59%)
|-
| 8|| 0(0.00%) || 9(3.90%) || 67(29.00%) || 91(39.39%) || 57(24.68%) || 7(3.03%)
|-
| 9|| 0(0.00%) || 3(1.28%) || 47(20.00%) || 121(51.49%) || 55(23.40%) || 9(3.83%)
|-
| 10|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 30(12.00%) || 125(50.00%) || 85(34.00%) || 10(4.00%)
|-
| 11|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 29(10.94%) || 118(44.53%) || 111(41.89%) || 7(2.64%)
|-
| 12|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 11(3.86%) || 119(41.75%) || 126(44.21%) || 29(10.18%)
|-
| 13|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 11(3.67%) || 103(34.33%) || 155(51.67%) || 31(10.33%)
|-
| 14|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 4(1.27%) || 73(23.17%) || 203(64.44%) || 35(11.11%)
|-
| 15|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 80(23.88%) || 203(60.60%) || 52(15.52%)
|-
| 16|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 54(15.43%) || 240(68.57%) || 56(16.00%)
|-
| 17|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 40(10.96%) || 248(67.95%) || 77(21.10%)
|-
| 18|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 21(7.45%) || 199(70.57%) || 62(21.99%)
|-
| 19|| 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 0(0.00%) || 6(4.51%) || 93(69.92%) || 34(25.56%)
|-
|}

I'm updating the table with the proper stats.

== Masterpiece destruction and effect on mood ==

Suppose I somehow manage to have a dwarf who's made 10000 masterpieces. Then if one of them gets destroyed, his happiness should decrease by 1000/10000 = 0.1 points. Does this round to 0, or will happiness always decrease by at least 1 point if a masterpiece gets destroyed? [[User:DaPatman|DaPatman]] 23:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It rounds to 0, even if all 10000 get destroyed.
:I coincidentally tested this today, while testing whether destroying mass quantities of objects speeds up the game. (It does.)
:Many thousands of masterpieces were atom-smashed. All the legendary workers who had made them stayed ecstatic. The only worker who became unhappy was a proficient metalcrafter who must have made just a few masterpieces. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 03:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d:Bismuthinite

2009-05-02T19:14:33Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

{{Ore|name=Bismuthinite|tile=%|color=#fff
|uses =
* [[Ore]] of [[bismuth]]
|location =
* [[Granite]]
* Found as small clusters
|properties =
* [[Economic stone]]
* [[Material value]] 1}}

'''Bismuthinite''' is a [[metal ore]], the ore of [[bismuth]], usually found associated with [[granite]]. It can be [[smelter|smelted]] into bars of bismuth. These can be combined with bars of [[tin]] and [[copper]] to form [[bismuth bronze]].

{{Rocks}}
[[Category:Ore]]
[[Category:Stone]]
[[Category:Economic Stone]]

40d Talk:Activity zone

2009-05-02T16:10:58Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Odd pond filling techniques */

==Undumpable: belongings of dead dwarves==
Has anyone else noticed that when a dwarf dies and leaves behind all his items on the floor of your fortress, you can designate them for dumping but the dwarves never come and dump them? Is there any way to get rid of these? I also noticed dwarves never seem to dump damaged items (items that have an x in their name). ----[[User:Hyperbox|Hyperbox]] 04:29, 21 August 2008 (EST)
:I don't think dwarves will dump items with ownership flags, so that's why your dwarves never seem to dump damaged items. I think they need to replace them first. In the case of death, though, my experience has been that the items get de-owned on death and the other dwarves come strip the body. If you do {{k|o}}rders & choose {{k|F}}orbid, there are some settings about whether items are forbidden upon death, but I think they default to mostly-permissive, so unless your settings got changed that shouldn't be affecting you, either. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:41, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
::I'm thinking that the [[dwarven economy]] might throw another yet wrench into this system. Since my economy started, my dwarves have refused to dump ''any'' clothing items, including narrow clothing. I'm wondering whether it's because dwarves won't dump anything they might be able to sell. Bless their capitalist little hearts, but it's extremely frustrating. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 21:42, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have had no trouble dumping narrow clothing after the economy kicks in -- as long as the clothing isn't already in a shop. Once they've hauled it to the shop, it behaves as if it were "owned". --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:55, 12 December 2008 (EST)

I just want to confirm that items, particularly worn out socks and shoes, can't be dumped. So if your dwarf decides he wants a new pair and leaves his old shoes or socks lying on the ground, you are screwed.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 10:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:You can, however, hide them via {{k|k}}-{{k|h}} or {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|h}}. They still exist, but at least you won't have to look at them. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 04:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

==Proposed move==
should this page be moved to the singluar title "Activity zone" ?
(unsigned/unknown [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT))

==Force drinking location==
Any advice how to get dwarves really drink where I want them?
I have one space water supply zone at the end of channel so the zone is above the floodgate) and then I have another 12 space zone around a little pond.. still all the dwarves run all the way to the brook for drink. (..yea yea, I know, I need booze. sorry for beeing slow)
--Shiona
:under the orders menu, along with the only farmers harvest and refuse type orders, there is an option for zones, under that submenu you can say 'prefer to drink/fish at zone' 'only drink/fish at zone' which might be what you need. Also make sure you are setting the zones to a type and not just designating them. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Vertigo when filling ponds?==
This is not really related to zones, but I have a pond my dwarves are filling, which is three levels deep. They seem to be suffering from extreme vertigo; they keep filling a bucket, dumping it in, and then staggering away stunned and nauseous. There's vomit ''all over'' my pond now.
- [[User:Clockwork|Clockwork]] 19:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:That sounds like cave adjustment to me. When's the last time they've been outside before that problem arose? If dwarves spend too long underground, they'll get accustomed to it, to the point that being hit by sunlight again will give them the exact symptoms you just described. The pond has nothing to do with it, aside from the fact that they're outside while filling it. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 22:42, 18 November 2007 (EST)

==Inappropriate building?==
I have designated a pond inside my fort in an attempt to get some floors muddy for farming. However, I keep getting the message: so and so cancels Fill Pond: Inappropriate building. Any hints as to what I am doing wrong?
- [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 07:03, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

: IIRC Dwarves will only pour water into a pit; ie. an empty space. If you want to make a floor muddy, you need to mark a pond on the z-level above it. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:41, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Garbage dump ==
The following sentence is self contradicting. "Each ground tile within that zone is considered a garbage dump tile; thus, if you want to place a single-tile zone, place the zone onto a ground tile (optionally adjacent to a cliff or pit), not onto an open space." It needs correcting, one way or the other. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 04:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

==Wiki style question==
while reading articles in this wiki, i sometimes see keyboard keys described as being "pushed" (for example, under Construction in [[Well]]), sometimes as being "used" (link) and sometimes just Shortcut {{k|w}} (for example, [[Dump]]). can i use any of these in articles that i wish to add to the wiki? -[[User:Anachron|Anachron]]
:There is a lack of consistency. Fix it all! or adopt the (non)standard that already exists... the real answer is see the [[rule]]s. If it's not covered and you think it should be.... work out where it should go![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

==Animal pits==
Is this how I am meant to keep all my herd animals in the same place (I'd prefer not to cage them, I don't know why...)? Are they gonna get hurt when I drop them down a z-level?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:Now I think I have an issue that...
::I have a passage leading to a channel. The channel and one floor tile before it are my pit zones.
::Below that is a room with a s-bend corridor with several doors marked "Passable" (ie not passable to pets).
:It seems that my dwarves want to drop an animal into the pit. Then go downstairs, pick it up, and do it again.
:I am confused![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
===After a night of sleep===
Alright. I now have an animal pit activity zone. Below it is a room with an S-bend corridor with three doors marked '''Passable''' (for dwarves only).
There are "several" animals in the pit.
My question: When I {{k|i}} on the zone, then {{k|P}}, does it show me the animals who have already been put in the pit or not? I would have thought it would be like a cage, showing all animals but putting a special character next to the ones already in the pit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:01, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

::Unfortunately there is no way to tell if an animal has been placed in a pit. So when you assign animals to a pit, it is a one-shot thing only - a dwarf will pit the animal, then there will be no indication that the animal is there the next time you look at the list. It would be nice if we could designate areas as pits, where the areas would act as 'stockpiles' or 'cages' that track which animals are in them.[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:46, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Deadly Animal Pits==
I'm surprised I'm not seeing anyone talking about this, but when I saw that you could put animals in pits the first thing I thought about was filling it with snakes, lions, maybe a dragon or two, and having that be what the unlucky goblins who fall into when the get dropped down from your drawbridge trap. --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:31, 22 November 2008 (EST)

*Adding onto that... how about making ponds and filling them with your own fish to start some kind of fish pond or something? --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:32, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, that makes sense! I always thought that was what ponds were for, before I figured out you could do other things with them, too. I'd be careful with the dragon pits, though. Even tame ones are very indiscriminate when breathing fire on their foes. (Currently I'm using a race that I gave dragonfirebreath. First thing that happened when zombies attacked was they lit up the zombies, the wagon and all the supplies, and the clothes their friends were wearing. I changed the race's ignite point after that.) --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 20:38, 22 November 2008 (EST)
==Nobles filling ponds==

Anybody else notice that nobles fill ponds? They ''are'' useful for something after all! --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

==Odd pond filling techniques==
Why is it when my little dudes try filling my pond, they leave the bucket at edge of my pond? Am I seeing this incorrectly, or when they fill a pond, they get water, bring it over to the pond, pour the water in, and leave the bucket. I don't understand how this fills the pond, or if you need multiple buckets, or if I'm doing something wrong. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 16:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

:They dumped the water out of the bucket into the pond (assuming there was a channel to dump into) and then left the bucket for the next filler to use. It can be very difficult to fill any sizable space (>2x2) with buckets alone, due to evaporation. Your best bet is to have multiple pond zones (each one will generate a separate filling job,) 2 buckets per zone, and turning off any bucket accepting stockpiles, in addition to making sure the nearest water source isn't a long trip. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

::Oh, I see. I figured if the dwarves didn't have anything better to do, they'd just keep the buckets with them and do the job over and over again. They drop the bucket when they're done? That's kinda ridiculous. Anyway, that's for the info. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 16:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Activity zone

2009-05-02T16:09:07Z

ZombieRoboNinja: /* Odd pond filling techniques */

40d Talk:Activity zone

2009-04-30T21:49:47Z

ZombieRoboNinja:

==Undumpable: belongings of dead dwarves==
Has anyone else noticed that when a dwarf dies and leaves behind all his items on the floor of your fortress, you can designate them for dumping but the dwarves never come and dump them? Is there any way to get rid of these? I also noticed dwarves never seem to dump damaged items (items that have an x in their name). ----[[User:Hyperbox|Hyperbox]] 04:29, 21 August 2008 (EST)
:I don't think dwarves will dump items with ownership flags, so that's why your dwarves never seem to dump damaged items. I think they need to replace them first. In the case of death, though, my experience has been that the items get de-owned on death and the other dwarves come strip the body. If you do {{k|o}}rders & choose {{k|F}}orbid, there are some settings about whether items are forbidden upon death, but I think they default to mostly-permissive, so unless your settings got changed that shouldn't be affecting you, either. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:41, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
::I'm thinking that the [[dwarven economy]] might throw another yet wrench into this system. Since my economy started, my dwarves have refused to dump ''any'' clothing items, including narrow clothing. I'm wondering whether it's because dwarves won't dump anything they might be able to sell. Bless their capitalist little hearts, but it's extremely frustrating. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 21:42, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have had no trouble dumping narrow clothing after the economy kicks in -- as long as the clothing isn't already in a shop. Once they've hauled it to the shop, it behaves as if it were "owned". --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:55, 12 December 2008 (EST)

I just want to confirm that items, particularly worn out socks and shoes, can't be dumped. So if your dwarf decides he wants a new pair and leaves his old shoes or socks lying on the ground, you are screwed.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 10:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

==Proposed move==
should this page be moved to the singluar title "Activity zone" ?
(unsigned/unknown [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT))

==Force drinking location==
Any advice how to get dwarves really drink where I want them?
I have one space water supply zone at the end of channel so the zone is above the floodgate) and then I have another 12 space zone around a little pond.. still all the dwarves run all the way to the brook for drink. (..yea yea, I know, I need booze. sorry for beeing slow)
--Shiona
:under the orders menu, along with the only farmers harvest and refuse type orders, there is an option for zones, under that submenu you can say 'prefer to drink/fish at zone' 'only drink/fish at zone' which might be what you need. Also make sure you are setting the zones to a type and not just designating them. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Vertigo when filling ponds?==
This is not really related to zones, but I have a pond my dwarves are filling, which is three levels deep. They seem to be suffering from extreme vertigo; they keep filling a bucket, dumping it in, and then staggering away stunned and nauseous. There's vomit ''all over'' my pond now.
- [[User:Clockwork|Clockwork]] 19:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:That sounds like cave adjustment to me. When's the last time they've been outside before that problem arose? If dwarves spend too long underground, they'll get accustomed to it, to the point that being hit by sunlight again will give them the exact symptoms you just described. The pond has nothing to do with it, aside from the fact that they're outside while filling it. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 22:42, 18 November 2007 (EST)

==Inappropriate building?==
I have designated a pond inside my fort in an attempt to get some floors muddy for farming. However, I keep getting the message: so and so cancels Fill Pond: Inappropriate building. Any hints as to what I am doing wrong?
- [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 07:03, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

: IIRC Dwarves will only pour water into a pit; ie. an empty space. If you want to make a floor muddy, you need to mark a pond on the z-level above it. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:41, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Garbage dump ==
The following sentence is self contradicting. "Each ground tile within that zone is considered a garbage dump tile; thus, if you want to place a single-tile zone, place the zone onto a ground tile (optionally adjacent to a cliff or pit), not onto an open space." It needs correcting, one way or the other. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 04:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

==Wiki style question==
while reading articles in this wiki, i sometimes see keyboard keys described as being "pushed" (for example, under Construction in [[Well]]), sometimes as being "used" (link) and sometimes just Shortcut {{k|w}} (for example, [[Dump]]). can i use any of these in articles that i wish to add to the wiki? -[[User:Anachron|Anachron]]
:There is a lack of consistency. Fix it all! or adopt the (non)standard that already exists... the real answer is see the [[rule]]s. If it's not covered and you think it should be.... work out where it should go![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

==Animal pits==
Is this how I am meant to keep all my herd animals in the same place (I'd prefer not to cage them, I don't know why...)? Are they gonna get hurt when I drop them down a z-level?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:Now I think I have an issue that...
::I have a passage leading to a channel. The channel and one floor tile before it are my pit zones.
::Below that is a room with a s-bend corridor with several doors marked "Passable" (ie not passable to pets).
:It seems that my dwarves want to drop an animal into the pit. Then go downstairs, pick it up, and do it again.
:I am confused![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
===After a night of sleep===
Alright. I now have an animal pit activity zone. Below it is a room with an S-bend corridor with three doors marked '''Passable''' (for dwarves only).
There are "several" animals in the pit.
My question: When I {{k|i}} on the zone, then {{k|P}}, does it show me the animals who have already been put in the pit or not? I would have thought it would be like a cage, showing all animals but putting a special character next to the ones already in the pit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:01, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

::Unfortunately there is no way to tell if an animal has been placed in a pit. So when you assign animals to a pit, it is a one-shot thing only - a dwarf will pit the animal, then there will be no indication that the animal is there the next time you look at the list. It would be nice if we could designate areas as pits, where the areas would act as 'stockpiles' or 'cages' that track which animals are in them.[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:46, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Deadly Animal Pits==
I'm surprised I'm not seeing anyone talking about this, but when I saw that you could put animals in pits the first thing I thought about was filling it with snakes, lions, maybe a dragon or two, and having that be what the unlucky goblins who fall into when the get dropped down from your drawbridge trap. --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:31, 22 November 2008 (EST)

*Adding onto that... how about making ponds and filling them with your own fish to start some kind of fish pond or something? --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:32, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, that makes sense! I always thought that was what ponds were for, before I figured out you could do other things with them, too. I'd be careful with the dragon pits, though. Even tame ones are very indiscriminate when breathing fire on their foes. (Currently I'm using a race that I gave dragonfirebreath. First thing that happened when zombies attacked was they lit up the zombies, the wagon and all the supplies, and the clothes their friends were wearing. I changed the race's ignite point after that.) --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 20:38, 22 November 2008 (EST)
==Nobles filling ponds==

Anybody else notice that nobles fill ponds? They ''are'' useful for something after all! --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

==Odd pond filling techniques==
Why is it when my little dudes try filling my pond, they leave the bucket at edge of my pond? Am I seeing this incorrectly, or when they fill a pond, they get water, bring it over to the pond, pour the water in, and leave the bucket. I don't understand how this fills the pond, or if you need multiple buckets, or if I'm doing something wrong.