https://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=AngleWyrm&feedformat=atomDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T10:18:21ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Starting_build&diff=127168v0.31:Starting build2010-09-06T06:57:56Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* BillyBob and the Rock Nuts */</p>
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<div>{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
A '''starting build''' is a personal ''strategy'' for choosing the initial supplies, equipment, and {{l|skill}}s of your initial seven dwarves when starting a new game in {{l|fortress mode}}. These skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page attempts to give advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself, as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
But one thing should be made clear - there is no "best" build, no "perfect" or "clearly superior" final mix of skills and items. There are too many variables to connect, not the least of which is... you! Your play style, what you, as an individual player, consider preferable for the proper mix of fun and challenge. And then there is the environment, where your dwarves will arrive, the creatures, the resources available, and so forth.<br />
<br />
Items are tied to starting skills, and starting skills are tied to the expected environment for your chosen embark, and all are tied to your preferences for playing the game - not all sites require (or invite) the same approach, and no two players would take the same approach to the same environment.<br />
<br />
So while suggestions can be made, and new ideas presented for your consideration, ultimately the final "best" mix for you will have to come from your experience, which will begin to grow during your first game. Without understanding "everything", some decisions will just have to be guesswork - and even later you never know "everything".<br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
A starting build must be seen as a whole - the embark location affects the needed supplies, and influences what skills may be most needed or useful. Along with this is player preferences - if you wish an economy based on {{l|prepared meal}}s, {{l|glass}}, or {{l|steel}}, each of those have very different requirements. Likewise, if you want to play a military game, fighting off sieges with huge battles, that's a very different mix (and different site requirements) than if you want a calm location to build your perfect {{l|mega construction}}. <br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
With only 7 dwarves, you can't take every {{l|skill}}, so you have to balance what you do take. At this starting phase, each dwarf can only be assigned a maximum total of 10 skill levels, with no single skill starting higher than "5". With 7 starting dwarves, you could take no skills at all, or take 70 skills all at level 1, or 14 skills all at level 5* (2 per dwarf), the highest allowed at embark, or (most likely) something in between the last two, but closer to that last. <br />
<br />
:''(* Note that an unskilled dwarf starts with all Skills at Level '''0'''. Adding +5 Levels is then Level '''5'''. This is true regardless of how many "points" a level costs when first buying skills at embark.)''<br />
<br />
Once play starts, dwarves can learn any and all skills - these choices only determine what sort of "head start" they have, what they are good at when they first hit the ground. See {{l|experience}} for a discussion of increasing skills during game play.<br />
<br />
The considerations are several:<br />
<br />
:* Maximizing starting skill ranks vs. generalizing and having more skills covered at lower levels.<br />
:* Balancing multiple skills for a single dwarf, so they aren't constantly needed for two different tasks at critical periods<br />
:* Military vs economic needs<br />
:* Your goals vs "basic survival needs" to keep your fortress healthy and happy.<br />
:* Speed that a skill can be trained in game<br />
:* Demand for a skill during a game<br />
:* Whether quality or speed are significant considerations for tasks/final product<br />
:* Balancing the desire to create {{l|wealth}} ''(with high-value products)'' with the need to maintain {{l|thought|morale}} ''(with low-value but commonly used products, like {{l|bed}}s, which normally are made from {{l|wood}})''.<br />
:* & most importantly - ''your playstyle'' - what '''you''' think is "fun"!<br />
<br />
While there are some arguable "no-brainer" choices (or are for each player, according to their playstyle), the final few selections are often a coin toss, or close to. And there is often more than one way to skin a cat - in fact, while many players recommend ''never'' starting with more than one cat, starting with many cats (breeding them for leather, bones and meat) and a skilled {{l|leatherworker}} and/or {{l|bone carver}} is one way to go with (part of) a starting build. Until you have some personal experience, the various suggestions and advice may mean little, but will have more meaning after your first fortress inevitably fails - {{l|Losing|losing is fun}}.<br />
<br />
So don't over-think it at first - you'll make a good guess, dive in, and learn far more than we can explain here.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
The starting items are what is needed for your dwarves to survive until they are self-sufficient, or at least until the first yearly {{l|caravan}}s will keep them afloat. The first won't show up until Autumn, so that's more than 2 seasons your dwarves are on their own.<br />
<br />
A dwarf eats about 2 meals a season, and drinks a little more than 4 drinks in that same time. If you add your expected {{L|migrant}}s, multiply that by the number of seasons, you can estimate how much food and booze will be needed to get you safely through to the first {{L|caravan}} - barring {{L|losing|the unforeseen}}. In your starting build, you can bring all of that, or your {{l|hunter}}s, {{l|Plant gathering|plant gatherers}}, {{l|fisherdwarf}}s, {{l|grower}}s and {{l|brewer}}s can provide some or most of it. <br />
<br />
Similarly, most of the finished products are expensive to buy pre-embark, and so a minimum is recommended - maybe a pick or two for immediate mining and basic defense, maybe a (cheap?) axe* or two for better defense and cutting wood, thread, cloth or a rope for a {{l|well}}, maybe a few leather to make bags, and call it good.<br />
<br />
:''(* "Wooden practice axes" cost only 17P, and cut down wood just fine. They will be significantly weaker than metal axes in combat, but still far superior to {{L|wrestling}}, and you can {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}} quickly enough.)''<br />
<br />
You can produce any and all of those from scratch if you are willing to wait - and your {{l|surroundings}} don't kill you first. Raw materials are much cheaper, in the form of {{l|ore}}s, {{l|wood}}, {{l|leather}} and so forth, but whether you want to take the time at the start of the game is the question. The trade-off is always a balance of cost savings vs. time savings when you first strike the earth. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
====Your civilization====<br />
On the map menu, if you hit {{k|Tab}} twice, you will see a list of possible {{l |Civilization}}s that your dwarves can start from, if there is more than one. Each can have access to different starting equipment and material to offer you - some will be significantly better or worse supplied, and some may be lacking one key item you desire, while another will lack something else equally critical to your plan. Unfortunately you will only find out when selecting your items, after selecting a {{l|location}}. To chose another Civilization requires a start-over. Another important difference is whether your civilization is at {{l|war}} with one of the neighbours; This results in early attacks on your fort and, obviously, no trade {{l|caravan}}s from them.<br />
<br />
If you don't like the civilization you chose, or wish to compare what each has to offer, you must either finish the embark, "abandon" the fortress and then re-embark in the same location (using a '''saved''' copy of the game world!), or use {{k|Ctl}}+{{k|Alt}}+{{k|Del}} (or the equiv for your OS), shut down the game and restart it from scratch, then Start again, reload the game world, and find the same embark site - this is not difficult if you made careful notes, but is still a pain, no doubt. <br />
<br />
Every such re-start gives you a different mix of dwarves with different names, {{L |attribute|attributes}}, {{L |personality|personalities}} and {{L |preferences}}, but the civilizations are part of the map and stay constant. The default civilization chosen for you will vary, however.<br />
<br />
===Saving a starting mix===<br />
Once you have the mix of items and skills that you like, you can hit {{k|s}} and save it to a template with a custom name. In a later game, you can pick that profile when you embark. If your selected civilization does not have some of the desired items in your template, this is announced clearly, and a different civilization can be tried as described above, or you can continue and change your mix.<br />
<br />
If you match skills to the {{l|preferences}} and {{L |personality|personalities}} of your dwarves, it may be an idea not to include any skills in such a template, as they will simply be applied in the original order to the current dwarves as they appear on the list.<br />
<br />
If you find additional items that you wish to add (perhaps another type of cheap meat, or an ore not previously available), you can edit those in by hitting {{k|s}}, overwriting your old template. <br />
<br />
:''(You can also go into the .txt file, located at data/init/embark_profiles, and edit in the SKILLS or ITEMS as you want - the syntax is fairly straightforward.)''<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
= "Play Now!" =<br />
This option gives you an automatic, low-powered and generalized starting mix with no thinking involved. If you select this option, you are ''immediately'' advanced to the game map with no chance to alter your starting skills or items. <br />
<br />
When you pick this option, you currently{{version|0.31.12}} start with:<br />
<br />
'''Dwarves'''<br />
:* Adequate {{l|Miner}} (+2 {{l|Experience|skill levels}}) <br />
:* Novice {{l|Carpenter}}/ {{l|Bowyer}} (+1 skill level in each skill)<br />
:* Novice {{l|Engraver}}/ {{l|Mason}}/ {{l|Mechanic}}/ {{l|Building designer|Building Designer}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Gem cutter|Gem Cutter}}/ {{l|Gem setter|Gem Setter}}/ {{l|Wood crafter}}/ {{l|Stone crafter}}/ {{l|Bone carver|Bone Carver}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Fisherdwarf}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Fish cleaner|Fish Cleaner}}/ {{l|Butcher}}/ {{l|Tanner}}/ {{l|Weaver}}/ {{l|Clothier}}/ {{l|Leatherworker}}<br />
:And one "Leader", with Novice in:<br />
:* {{l|Wood cutter|Wood Cutter}}/ {{l|Brewer}}/ {{l|Cook}}/ {{l|Grower}}/ {{l|Herbalist}}/ {{l|Wood burner|Wood Burner}}/ {{l|Furnace operator|Furnace Operator}}/ {{l|Lye maker|Lye Maker}}/ {{l|Potash maker|Potash Maker}}<br />
:''plus'' Competent in:<br />
:* {{l|Wound dresser|Wound Dresser}}, {{l|Diagnostician}}, {{l|Surgeon}}, {{l|Bone doctor|Bone Doctor}}, {{l|Suturer}}.<br />
<br />
:''(Note that that last dwarf has far more "levels" in starting skills (by twice!) for a single dwarf than are allowed by "Planning Carefully", below!)''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Items'''<br />
:* 2 Copper {{l|pick}}s <br />
:* 2 Copper battle {{l|axe}}s<br />
:* 1 Iron {{l|anvil}} <br />
:* 60 units alcohol (20 each of 3 random types<sup>1</sup>, 12 free barrels)<br />
:* 5 ''each'' {{l|seed}}s<sup>2</sup> (& 6 bags)<br />
:* 15 units of meat (one random type, 10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 15 units of fish (one random type, 10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 15 units of plump helmets (10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber thread <br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber cloth <br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber bag <br />
:* 3 pig tail fiber ropes <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> buckets <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> splints <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> crutch <br />
:* 2 dogs (random sex)<br />
:* 2 cats (random sex)<br />
:* 1 random cow/ox/mule/horse (random sex)<br />
<br />
::''Notes:''<br />
:::1. ''There are only 4 different {{L |alcohol}}s possible at this stage, so if two or three of the same are randomly chosen, it's quite possible to start with 40 or 60 of the same type. (A wider variety is usually better.)''<br />
:::2. ''The six underground crops are: dimple cup, cave wheat, plump helmet, sweet pods, pig tail, quarry bush.''<br />
:::3. ''A barrel can hold up to 10 dry items (or 5 wet). One of these barrels is only half full. ''<br />
:::4. ''All wooden items will be of 1 type of wood.''<br />
<br />
As a challenge for an experienced player, this is not an uncommon choice. But even as a starting player you can do much better if you choose the "'''Prepare for the journey carefully'''" option and do just that - prepare carefully, as described below...<br />
<br />
="Prepare for the Journey Carefully"=<br />
Good advice. This option allows you complete control over your starting mix of skills and beginning items. By default, your dwarves start with no skills, and you are offered the following items, which are very similar to the "Play Now" mix, but all are optional and can be sold back and changed according to your preferences. Each item costs a number of "points" - you will buy ''both'' your starting items ''and'' the starting {{L |skills}} for your dwarves with one pool of combined points, 1274 total. <br />
<br />
(This choice also allows you to select/create the {{l|Fortress name}} yourself, rather than have it randomly generated.)<br />
<br />
The point costs for the default items are listed below.<br />
<br />
::{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
! Default Items !! Cost<br />(in "points") !! Comments<br />
|-<br />
| 2 Copper {{l|pick}}s || 88 (44 each) || for {{l|mining}}<br />
|-<br />
| 2 Copper battle {{l|axe}}s || 136 (68 each) || weapons and {{l|woodcutting}}<br />
|-<br />
| 1 Iron {{l|anvil}} || 100 || required for any<br /> metal working<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 5 of each underground seed<sup>2</sup> || | 30 6*5 (1 each) || 6 free bags<br />
|-<br />
| 15 meat of one random (cheap) type || 30 (2 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 15 fish of one random (cheap) type || 30 (2 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 15 {{l|Plump helmet}}s || 60 (4 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber thread || 60 (12 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber cloth || 70 (14 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber bag || 100 (20 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 3 pig tail fiber ropes || 60 (20 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> buckets || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> splints || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> crutch || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| No dogs, no cats || || <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
:1. There are only 4 different {{L|alcohol}}s possible at this stage, so if two or three of the same are randomly chosen, it's quite possible to start with 40 or 60 of the same type. (A wider variety is usually better.)<br />
:2. The six underground crops are: dimple cup, cave wheat, plump helmet, sweet pods, pig tail, and quarry bush.<br />
:3. A barrel can hold up to 10 dry items (or 5 wet). One of these barrels is only half full. <br />
:4. All wooden items will be of 1 type of wood.<br />
<br />
With the above items, your point pool starts at '''300''' (visible in the lower right corner). This is not ''close'' to enough points to buy full skills for all your dwarves, but you can sell back any or all of the above items that you choose and recover the points, spending them as you prefer. There is no quick and easy solution to this, but the possible options are infinite*. Returning all equipment is worth 1274 points total, but unused points are of no use after embark, once the actual gameplay starts, so spend now or waste them.<br />
<br />
:''(* Note that an anvil is needed to do any metalworking, and in turn cannot be created without another anvil. Selling your anvil back means you will not do any metalworking at least until the Autumn {{L |caravan}}, and then only if they bring one - which they 'usually' do, but not always. Next dwarven caravan is a year after that, and so on.)''<br />
<br />
=====Using the menu=====<br />
Use {{k|Tab}} to switch between selecting Skills and Items. Use the 4 directional keys or number pad to navigate to highlight the different choices/columns, and {{k|+}} or {{k|-}} to choose more or less of the highlighted item or skill. When viewing items, hit {{k|n}} to go to a menu for any "new" items, that are not currently listed, including any you removed by reducing the number to 0; select the item, hit {{k|Enter}}, then increase the number desired as above ({{k|+}} or {{k|-}}) in the main menu.<br />
<br />
If you cannot buy additional skill levels, you are out of points and must return some items for additional points. Higher-priced items will automatically be removed from viewable new items if you do not have enough points for those selections, showing only what you can afford with your current points.<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
At this stage, pre-embark, skills cost a number of starting points, equaling monetary value. Later, during fortress mode, all skills will be trained by practice, and "cost" is no longer a concern. All dwarves start with "No Skill" and the first additional skill level (Novice) costs 5 points. To buy the next level would cost 6, and so on. To buy up Proficient (the max allowed to start with), costs 5+6+7+8+9, or 35 points. <br />
<br />
A dwarf can start with up to 10 additional levels, regardless whether that's 10 skills at Novice, or 2 skills at Proficient. So, if you are going to buy the maximum skills allowed (highly recommended), that can cost from between 50 to 70 points each, but is usually around 400-450+ for all 7 dwarves.<br />
<br />
Any dwarf can have any labor designated, and they will perform that task and learn or improve that skill, even if they have no skill related to that labor when they start. Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively, while dwarves with higher skill work faster and/or produce a significantly higher quality product. Some skills are not used often, and/or produce no "quality" in the final product, or produce qualities that have little impact on the game - for these it's questionable whether investing in high starting levels is worthwhile, but that's often a judgment call. Other skills might be very easy to level and as such, investing to them is fairly pointless headstart.<br />
<br />
{{l|Quality}} is a central concept in the game - it affects {{l|food}}, {{l|alcohol}}, and almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: {{l|trading}} goods, {{l|barrel}}s, {{l|clothing}}, {{l|armor}}, {{l|furniture}}, {{l|weapon|weapons}}, and so on. Quality also has a large effect on the worth of an item while {{l|trading}}. Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy {{l|thought}}s. This tends to decrease the incidences of {{l|tantrum}}s, increasing a fortress's longevity.<br />
<br />
Some skills are also trained up fairly quickly or cheaply, especially where the task consumes no (valuable) materials, or doesn't matter in the final product - mining, furnace operator, wood cutting, butcher, tanner, glass making and (especially) {{l|administrator}} skills being only a few examples.<br />
<br />
==== Which skills do I need, really? ====<br />
<br />
The only thing that you absolutely must do in the first year is get your food supplies into a food stockpile, preferably inside, otherwise your food will rot on the ground and your dwarves will starve. Anything else you want to do can be accommodated by sufficient investment in initial food supplies and/or skills. This means the options for possible starting builds are vast because virtually any set of starting skills for your dwarves is viable (and that's before you even think about equipment, which adds more variables). So the short answer is: none.<br />
<br />
That said, there are some skills which will be '''used''', to one extent or another, by virtually every fortress - but that doesn't mean you '''need''' or even want to invest points in them to start. You could even manipulate the fortress (see {{l|challenge}}) to completely avoid one or more of the following, but these are the skills you will find it exceptionally hard to avoid creating jobs for:<br />
:{{l|Mining}} - to dig your fortress, and gain stone for projects. Only possible to avoid using if you're secretly an elf.<br />
:* Inexperienced {{l|miner}}s work very slowly and are less likely to recover mined gems or valuable ores. Mining can be leveled up quite quickly by mining {{l|soil#soil|soil}}, but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
:{{l|Carpentry}} - {{l|bed}}s can only be produced from {{l|wood}} (rare {{l|mood}}s aside)<br />
:*Carpentry is used, but opinions differ - on one hand, wood items are just not worth that much {{l|value}}-wise ''(10's of dwarfbucks vs 100's for stone furniture or 1000's for armor or prepared foods, for instance)'', so the difference in monetary value between high-quality and no-quality is minor for wood products. However, high-quality {{l|bed}}s are one of the easiest ways to help make and keep your dwarves {{l|thought|happy}} (since every dwarf will encounter a bed regularly), so some players swear by it.<br />
:{{l|Masonry}} - to build walls and stairs, and fashion dwarven furniture from stone. Possible to work around, but incredibly hard and annoying to do. <br />
:{{l|Grower|Growing}} - your farmers' work echoes throughout so many other tasks, it's stunning<br />
:* While its possible to feed your fortress on nothing but caravan goods, you'll never come by enough alcohol that way, so you'll eventually need to grow crops for brewing, and dwarves will literally go crazy if forced to drink nothing but water for long periods. Thus you'll want to plan for farming eventually - not that you need to bring a highly skilled {{l|Grower}}, but it'll certainly be ''very'' helpful. Likewise, a skilled {{l|brewer}} produces higher quality {{l|alcohol}} (''though the quality is hidden!)'', which improves your dwarves' mood, as does a skilled {{l|cook}} with the foods they prepare. However, most food can be eaten raw, and so long as they are not starving there is life.<br />
:{{l|Brewing}} - all dwarves "need alcohol to get through the working day"<br />
:{{l|Mechanics}} - if you want traps, and most people will. Also needed for most machinery, now more essential than ever since irrigating is no longer optional.<br />
:{{l|Architecture|Building Designer}} - mandatory for some buildings and constructions, but skill only improves speed a tad and increases structure {{l|value}}<br />
:{{L|Herbalist}} - Herbalism is good early source of food and more importantly, seeds you can plant in your outside farm plots.<br />
:* Inexperienced {{l|herbalist|herbalists}} will gather stacks of only one or two {{l|plant}}s, and often nothing at all, and inexperienced {{l|farming|farmers}} will often plant stacks of only one or two plants. This results in a small overall output which takes many {{l|container#container|containers}} to store in, less effective {{l|food}} preparation in the {{l|kitchen}}, and more space needed for {{l|stockpiles}}.<br />
:{{l|Broker skills}} - most importantly {{l|appraiser}} - a minimum of Broker skills are highly recommended to start with at the Novice (1 pt) level - it'll make your life much easier (especially Novice level of {{l|Appraiser}}, at least, as it greatly facilitates trading).<br />
:{{L|Record keeper}} - Lets you be able to see the exact amount of things you have much faster than training one, and is necessary to view the stocks screen.<br />
<br />
Of the above, Masonry, Growing, Brewing, Cooking, and Mechanics are generally worth considering as "highly desirable" starting skills for your dwarves. <br />
<br />
Remember, '''any skill can be used untrained, and/or get trained on the job''' - it just means a slower process and/or average lower quality product than if done by a dwarf with a higher {{l|experience|skill level}}.<br />
<br />
Ultimately the answer to "What skills do I need?" is "Whichever ''you'' want". Choosing a mixture of these commonly used skills and your desired specialized skills will make starting up your fortress easier and more efficient.<br />
<br />
==== What considerations could inform my skill selection?====<br />
<br />
You will often want some optional skills, often vastly more than something as useful and desirable as even masonry. For example, any player intending to do more than dabble in the metal industry may well want to start with multiple dwarves each highly skilled in at least one metal industry skill, especially those that produce goods with {{L|Quality|quality}}.<br />
<br />
The following may influence your choices of skills:<br />
<br />
#Some skills are harder to gain experience in than others - requiring valuable resources or taking an extended period of time, and thus inconvenient to train from the ground up. Investing in some of these extensively in your initial dwarves can make those industries much less painful to start. For example, metal-related skills generally eat metal bars, and thus the less time you spend training metal workers up to a decent level, the faster they'll be churning out high-quality items for you, and the fewer bars they'll waste becoming skilled. On the other hand, despite its importance, skills like mining train relatively quickly and barring extenuating circumstances (expected need to accomplish particular digging projects in the first month or you'll get mauled by a Giant for example) there's little need to actually invest your starting skills in it - they can learn on the job. <br />
#Keep in mind that some skills are used to make {{l|legendary artifact}}s, and successfully making an artifact will give the dwarf a lot of experience in the used skill. It can be worth investing in some skills solely to bias your artifact skill pool in the hopes of getting a legendary dwarf in an industry you want to really get working on a year or two in. (See {{l|Strange mood}}s for more info.)<br />
#If you plan on settling in a dangerous area, consider including at least some military skills, if not a dedicated {{l|soldier}}, or several. The nature of the environment should dictate the military skills chosen (for example, marksdwarves will be an ineffective counter to expected roving hordes of {{l|skeletal}} wildlife).<br />
#Migrants can and will arrive with a wide selection of decently trained skills. While it is a gamble, chances are pretty decent that migrants will arrive with a highly trained skill that is also highly desirable and would usurp the job of one of the four starting ones. The first few migration waves are likely to give you a much better talent pool than what you can assign at embark.<br />
#Skills rust if not used and they can eventually de-level. Consider that skills which you will use years after embark are going to be rusty or even deleveled.<br />
<br />
<!--<br />
NEEDS REWRITING ONCE WE HAVE THE NEW DATA<br />
<br />
Another consideration are {{l|attributes}} - a dwarf with 10 skills at Novice each has 5000 {{l|Experience#Increasing skills|experience}}, or just over 2 {{l|attribute}}s, while a dwarf with 2 skills at Proficient has 7000 experience, or almost 3 attributes. One extra Agility can make a big difference in tasks, one extra Strength or Toughness make the difference in an unexpected combat, etc. etc.<br />
--><br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some {{l|skills}} are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific {{l|attribute}}s. One could level up a miner until he becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier, or retire him to haul stone. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy a second critical job that will demand a lot of time away from their focus. There are many parts to a suit of armour, so armoursmithing will take more time than weaponsmithing - once you have one weapon per soldier, he's done. Masons, miners, growers, and any craft that your fortress will base their economy off of (glass, stonecrafts, armour, etc) will take a lot of time.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, another approach is to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry, or spend all their time in one generally narrow part of the fortress - the forges, or the kitchens, or outdoors, for instance. So combining Farming with cooking, rather than mining, for example, and turn on only Haul Food, not Haul Stone. Woodcutter/Herbalist/Mason/Axedwarf (for outdoor walls/projects) might be another combination - the possibilities are endless.<br />
<br />
Some combinations follow naturally in sequence to each other, but also can conflict with each other. One animal is butchered, then the leather is tanned, and the meat is cooked. But if you have 5 animals, several will rot before one dwarf can process all of those. A highly skilled craftsdwarf is often better suited at sitting in their {{l|workshop}} and having others deliver raw materials to them, than going out and obtaining their own raw materials themselves.<br />
<br />
Many builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* '''Outdoors''': Woodcutter/Plant Gatherer. Add {{l|axeman|Axedwarf}} for added security. <br />
* '''Mason+____''' : In many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy dwarf. He could be a spare miner, have abilities that are only rarely needed, or do tasks that can be accomplished quickly like {{l|building designer}}.<br />
* '''Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer'''. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* '''Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook'''. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the {{l|still}}, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* '''Boss''': Novice {{l|Negotiator}}/Novice {{l|Judge of intent}}/Novice {{l|Appraiser}}. This guy will be your {{l|Leader}} and {{l|Trader}}; you can make him {{l|record keeper}} too (the default), at least to start with. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as {{l|Masonry}} and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. Or keep him a generalist, or combine with one of the other options.<br />
* '''Weaponsmith/Leatherworker''': If they're not arming your military, they're making leather armor for them.<br />
* '''{{l|Craftsdwarf}}''', depending on your strategy - e.g. {{l|glass}} maker, {{l|weaponsmith}} or {{l|armorsmith}}, sometimes combined with related tasks from that industry ({{l|furnace operating}}, {{l|wood burner|wood burning}}). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
<br />
Not all combinations have to "look right" together. A weaponsmith will most probably not spend nearly 100% of their time creating weapons - what they do with the other part of their time may have nothing at all to do with forges or smithing. <br />
<br />
* '''Grower/GemCutter''' (or Grower/x-Craft): When gems are found, he's there, otherwise he's outstanding in his fields.<br />
* '''Mechanic/Brewer''': usually produces the mechanized defenses, but does moonshining when it's called for.<br />
* '''Miner/______''': This dwarf will quickly become legendary in mining, and then retire to pursue something else full time. On call for important veins of high-value ore. <br />
* '''Brewer/Appraiser/Leatherworker''': several typically low-demand skills<br />
* '''StoneCrafter/Herbalist''' - after quickly finding above-ground plants for seeds for the first season, they never go back unless something goes wrong.<br />
* '''(x-Craft)/Armor User''': Plan for the future - armor using is slow to train in if this dwarf is ever going to join the military.<br />
<br />
You can max out one skill and have several lower-level skills additionally, or just several skills that are not maxed out - the combinations are (almost) infinite.<br />
<br />
Combinations like these often have one {{l|moodable}} skill and one non-moodable (or a less desired moodable skill at lower level), so any mood will improve the desired one.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills for Moods ====<br />
<br />
{{l|Strange mood}}s will create a Legendary skill of the "moodable" skill with the highest level, and moods take hold of dwarves with different professions at different rates. Some skills are "moodable" where others are not. Another consideration is to place desired moodable skills with non-moodable, to ensure that both the professions and highest skills stay as preferred. Usually this involves one "craft" skill and one "farmer" type skill, such as Armor/Cook, or Weapon/Brewer. This can take some manipulation, and is not of primary concern to many players.<br />
<br />
<br />
=====Matching skills to a dwarf's personal profile=====<br />
Once you have your optimal skill mix for all 7 starting dwarves, you can, if you wish, take the time to {{k|v}}iew each of your individual dwarves and match skills to their {{l|preference}}s. This can be very advantageous: if you have a dwarf who likes {{l|steel}}, {{l|clear glass}}, {{l|crossbow}}s, {{l|siege engine}} parts, or something else equally interesting, they're an ideal candidate for matching skills (specifically for these examples, {{l|armorsmith}}, {{l|glassmaker}}, {{l|bowyer}}, or {{l|siege engineer}}).<br />
<br />
Likewise, if they have any obviously relevant {{l|personality}} strengths or weaknesses, those should be factored in. Some are obscure or ambiguous, but some ("Is constantly active and energetic") are a clear sign.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
An experienced player can start out with no skills for their starting dwarves, 1 copper nugget and an anvil - and nothing else - and have {{l|Make_your_own_weapons#Minimalist_challenge_build|everything they need}}. So what is "needed" is up to what you think is "fun" vs. "too hard" etc. etc. etc.<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. Unless you plan to {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}}, you definitely need to bring one {{l|pick}} for each {{l|miner}}, and if you plan to gather wood, you need an {{l|axe}}, which will become a weapon in wartime. Also a minimum of about 25-30* {{l|food}} and about 55-60* {{l|alcohol}}, which should get 7 dwarves through to the first {{l|caravan}} in Fall. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
::''(* A single dwarf eats about 2x/season, and drinks about 4x/season. With 7 dwarves that's ~approximately~ 14 meals per season and 28 alcohol per season, or ~28 meals and ~56 alcohol until the end of Summer. The Caravan is due sometime in Autumn, usually early Autumn, in the second week or so, but the first won't have enough to keep you going until whenever the next one arrives. Hopefully you'll have some food and brewing industry going by the first, or soon after.)''<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, in quantities ending in a "1" (1, 11, 21, etc.), and alcohols in amounts ending in a "1" or "6". This is to maximize the number of free {{l|barrel|barrels}} you start with; dry foodstuffs fit 10/barrel, and (pre-embark) alcohol fits 5/barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the {{l|wood}} you need to cut and shape in the early game for beds and other necessities. (Seeds are 100/bag, and you don't need near that many of any one type, so 6 bags max with this approach. Even if you don't plan on growing much {{l|cave wheat}}, starting with 1 seed and getting the free bag, and planting that one seed later and dumping the result could be worth it.) Also note that multiple types of meat taken from the same animal (warthog meat and warthog tripe, for example) will be packed into a single barrel on embark, instead of separate barrels (as of version 31.04). <br />
<br />
===== Items for moods =====<br />
When a dwarf is taken by a {{l|strange mood}}, he often needs obscure material or he will go insane and die, possibly with severe consequences to an entire fortress. Bringing along some of the harder-to-find ores ({{l|cassiterite}}, {{l|sphalerite}}, {{l|bismuthinite}}, {{l|garnierite}}), and putting those aside, forbidding their use "just in case", is spending a few points on an insurance policy. Bringing along a few bits of cloth thread is also a good idea. Just in case.<br />
<br />
===== Free Equipment =====<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill may get some leather {{l|armor}}, a crossbow and some bolts for free.<br />
<br />
<!--ANOTHER POINT THAT NEEDS MORE RESEARCH<br />
: As of 27.176.40, this appears to only be true if they have no civilian trade skills - military and social skills are fine, and administrator skills so long as they are not higher than Ambusher. Replace any of those skills with something civilian and they show up in street clothes.<br />
--><br />
<br />
<!--For DF2010<br />
So far all my hunters have had no free starting gear (3 Ambush, 5 marks, 1 armor user, 1 hammer)<br />
--><br />
<br />
<!--DF2010<br />
As long as Ambusher is the highest non-social and non-military skill, the dwarf will show up with a set of leather armor, a metal crossbow, and metal bolts. For this reason, it's advantageous to give at least Novice Ambusher to any "leader" or military dwarves you embark with. You can then disable their Hunting labor so the designated hunter can get some extra gear.<br />
<br />
====Different starting cultures====<br />
Before actually hitting "embark", you often have the option to choose one of several starting dwarven cultures (one of the options shown when you {{k|Tab}} through the various sub-screens). Different cultures will have different meats, fish, stones and etc to offer, and occasionally even different types of armour. The only way to know which is "best" is to remember ''exactly'' where on the 3 maps your embark site is, select one culture, embark and see what they have to offer, then hit {{k|Esc}} and "abandon game", and try it again with a different culture and compare. A real pain, sometimes. (Make a note about your exact starting location, don't trust it to memory.) In general, civilizations that occupy more world-map tiles offer more types of goods, both for embark and for trade. <!-- Somewhat verified on DF2010; this held true on two generated small worlds, saving a 4-tile civ that had 3 more rock types than a 5-tile civ. It seems the same as 40d. 0x517A5D --><br />
<br />
= Site considerations =<br />
Each fortress {{l|location}} offers particular challenges and opportunities, and can make different demands on your starting build. The starting builds below should be adjusted depending on the {{l|region}} your fort occupies, the specific vision you have of your fortress, and what it will take to {{l|losing|stay alive}} where you're going!<br />
<br />
The differences include what {{l|biome}}s, {{l|region}}s and stone {{l|layer}}s are present in your chosen embark site, as viewable on the starting menu.<br />
<br />
=== General Surroundings ===<br />
Simply put, if your {{l|surroundings}} are {{l|evil}} or {{l|savage}}, your dwarves have a higher risk of suddenly facing personal combat before they are safely behind their defenses. Consider bringing extra weaponry, in the form of axes, picks or crossbows (see {{l|Starting_builds#Free_Equipment|free equipment}}). Hand in hand with those, consider skill mixes that include {{l|axedwarf}}, {{l|mining}} (the skill used to wield a pick), {{l|marksdwarf}}, or {{l|wrestling}} (a solid unarmed-combat skill).<br />
<br />
The same is true if you are embarking near an exposed magma vent or an open chasm - these features can be seen on the embark map, but it's impossible to tell if they are "open" to the surface or not, until you are there in person.<br />
<br />
Be sure to include some source of {{l|water}} on the map, preferably running {{l|water}}. Water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and {{l|lake}}s will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure, in Hot climates {{l|murky pool}}s will dry up, and in Dry ones rain will only rarely re-fill them, if ever. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
===Aquifers===<br />
If an {{l|aquifer}} is present in the first soil or stone layers (visible on the pre-embark menu), it may bar all access to {{l|stone}} and {{l|ore}} until you find a way through the water barrier. Consider bringing some stone for building, and ore for your first basic needs. This may be critical to getting your fortress running smoothly.<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Mountains often have abundant {{l|ore}}s, but at the loss of trees and plants. In previous versions lacking {{L|cavern}}s, this was a serious drawback. In DF2010, brave pioneers can dig down into the caverns to find essentials like water, mud, and plants. However, players should be aware that above-ground crops will not grow in mountain biomes, no matter how muddy you may make the surface.<br />
<br />
Depending on the exact layers, it's common to find exposed {{l|vein}}s of useful {{l|ore}}s that can be immediately mined for {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}} weapons and tools.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded/Plains ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents. More water also means a high likelyhood of an {{l|aquifer}} being present. Make sure to check on embark.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is the potential lack of exposed {{l|stone}} to mine. The first level(s) below the surface is often {{l|soil}} of some type, which offers no building materials. However, soil is mined much more quickly than stone (x3-x4 faster), and expansive accommodations (rooms) can be achieved quickly even by untrained miners. You will find stone, you just have to go down a bit for it - but that's what dwarves do, isn't it?<br />
<br />
{{l|Experience|Training}} a {{l|Miner}} from No Skill to Proficient takes <NEED NEW TIME> in soil, and to Legendary in less than <DITTO>.<br />
<br />
=== Oceanside ===<br />
With many features in common with some of the above locations, {{l|beach}}es are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a flowing {{l|water}} of some sort. <br />
<br />
By definition, the settlement will fall between (at least) two {{l|biome}}s (one land, one water), potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the {{l|terrifying}} ocean is full of amphibious zombie {{l|whale}}s.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) {{l|biome}}s are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as {{l|glacier}}s are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. {{l|Desert}}s and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
Hunters should be replaced with fisherdwarves and a fish cleaner (although the latter can be easily trained). Depending how much water vs. land, more starting wood and ores might be helpful. Swimming is rarely useful in Fortress mode, even at the beach, and can be trained.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Sample starting builds==<br />
To use an example starting build, open data/init/embark_profiles.txt and paste the text into it. Next time you embark, the profile will appear as a possible group to take. Using embark profiles is faster than planning carefully, but totally skips dwarf personality. Dwarves are simply assigned first come, first served.<br />
=== BillyBob and the Rock Nuts ===<br />
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Profession<br />
!Skills<br />
|-<br />
|FarmerBrewer<br />
|Grower-5, Brewer-5<br />
|-<br />
|MinerMason<br />
|Mining-5, Masonry-3, Engraving-2<br />
|-<br />
|MinerJeweller<br />
|Mining-5, Masonry-2, GemCutting-4<br />
|-<br />
|LumberjackHerbalist<br />
|Woodcutting-4,Herbalism-3, Axedwarf, Armor, Carpentry<br />
|-<br />
|CookDoctor<br />
|Cook-3, Threshing-2, Diagnose, DressWounds, Suture, SetBones, Surgery<br />
|-<br />
|CarpenterLeader<br />
|Carpentry-4, Leadership-3, Negotiate, Appraisal, Record Keeper<br />
|-<br />
|CrafterArchitect<br />
|Stonecraft-5, Building Designer-3, Mechanic<br />
|}<br />
The lumberjack is the only one that _has_ to go outside, and all the rest can work indoors. Two main sources of income are farming (Sweet Pods->Dwarven Syrup) and Rock Crafting (to buy elven wood/barrels).<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
[PROFILE]<br />
[TITLE:BillyBob and the Rock Nuts]<br />
[SKILL:1:MINING:5]<br />
[SKILL:1:DETAILSTONE:3]<br />
[SKILL:1:MASONRY:2]<br />
[SKILL:2:MINING:5]<br />
[SKILL:2:MASONRY:1]<br />
[SKILL:2:CUTGEM:4]<br />
[SKILL:3:WOODCUTTING:4]<br />
[SKILL:3:CARPENTRY:1]<br />
[SKILL:3:HERBALISM:3]<br />
[SKILL:3:AXE:1]<br />
[SKILL:3:ARMOR:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:CARPENTRY:4]<br />
[SKILL:4:NEGOTIATION:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:APPRAISAL:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:RECORD_KEEPING:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:LEADERSHIP:3]<br />
[SKILL:5:BREWING:5]<br />
[SKILL:5:PLANT:5]<br />
[SKILL:6:PROCESSPLANTS:2]<br />
[SKILL:6:COOK:3]<br />
[SKILL:6:DRESS_WOUNDS:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:DIAGNOSE:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SURGERY:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SET_BONE:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SUTURE:1]<br />
[SKILL:7:STONECRAFT:5]<br />
[SKILL:7:MECHANICS:1]<br />
[SKILL:7:DESIGNBUILDING:4]<br />
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK:INORGANIC:COPPER]<br />
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE:INORGANIC:COPPER]<br />
[ITEM:1:ANVIL:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:12:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:11:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:11:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:MARMOT_HOARY:STOMACH]<br />
[ITEM:11:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:STRUCTURAL]<br />
[ITEM:1:THREAD:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:1:CLOTH:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:3:BOX:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:2:CHAIN:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:3:BUCKET:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:2:SPLINT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:2:CRUTCH:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:15:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:WARTHOG:MUSCLE]<br />
[PET:2:DOG:FEMALE:TRAINED_WAR]<br />
[PET:1:DOG:MALE:TRAINED_WAR]<br />
[PET:2:CAT:FEMALE:STANDARD]<br />
[PET:1:CAT:MALE:STANDARD]<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
===Tatter's Ragtime Band===<br />
<br />
Designed to pair important time-consuming skills with important but quickly completed skills, moodable skills with non-moodable skills, and generally embark only with skills that can't be trained from "unskilled" quickly (for example, no mining skills). Tailored to minimize bugs in versions 31.12.<br />
*Boss: 5 points in Armor User, 1 point in Appraiser, Negotiator, Judge of Intent, Record Keeper, and Organizer. Will be your chief miner, militia commander, and all-around noble early on, and almost certainly will become expedition leader as well. As other dwarves arrive with mining and/or noble skills (even if they aren't as high-level as the Boss's), replace the Boss with them as soon as possible, to relieve his workload. Keep the Boss as your militia commander and broker, mining mostly to train his skill with a pick, until a dwarf with better skills for these tasks arrives. If you embark with dogs, give the Boss the Animal Trainer labor as well and have him train them into War Dogs for extra protection. Note: As of 31.12, training seems to finally be working as intended, making axe/sword/hammer/spear dwarves feasable. Swap the Armor User with any other weapon skills if you like, but Armor User seems to be the slowest skill to develop, and I personally prefer to stick with it for the Boss. Plus, picks being pretty crummy weapons will help if you decide to make a Sherrif or Captain of the Guard with poor weapon skills so punishing "crime" won't result in undue maiming. (Moodable skill: Mining)<br />
*Doc: 5 points in Carpentry, 1 point in Diagnostician, Bone Doctor, Surgeon, Suturer, and Wound Dresser. A doctor that can make his own beds, splints, and crutches (and tables and cabinets, if you have an excess of wood). Make him Chief Medical Dwarf right away, but replace him as soon as a better Diagnostician comes along. Make him a Plant Gatherer and Wood Cutter as well (until immigrants with better skills arrive), to give him something to do when he has nothing to build and nobody to heal. (Moodable skill: Carpentry)<br />
*Rock Farmer: 5 points in Grower, 5 points in Gem Cutting. Farming is more difficult to set up than it used to be, but no less time consuming. Gem Cutting takes little time and provides the fortress with the highest-value, lowest-weight trade items you're likely to find early on. You can also make him a Plant Processor and/or Miller if you need the materials for emergency mood satisfaction and/or cooking, but these skills should be provided at higher levels by immigrants fairly quickly, and cloth isn't critical for an early fortress (hunt and butcher wildlife with your militia instead, and make bags/clothes out of leather). Give him the Mining labor at least, though, as all dwarves who aren't Wood Cutting or Hunting should be available as backup miners and emergency militia. (Moodable skill: Gem Cutting)<br />
*Embalmer: 5 points in Brewing, 5 points in Leatherworking. Makes leather bags and armor early in the game, alcohol later. Assign him the Tanner and Butcher labors as well, until immigrants with better skills arrive, and the Miner labor, for the reasons stated above. (Moodable skill: Leatherworker)<br />
*Iron Chef: 5 points in Cooking, 5 points in Weaponsmithing. Makes the steel when he isn't making a meal. Assign him the Furnace Operator and Wood Burner labors, until immigrants with better skills arrive, so he can make the raw materials of his craft, and the Miner labor on general principles. If you're unlucky with immigrants, or determined to make additional forges or metal armor right away, you can give him the Armorer and Blacksmith labors as well. (Moodable skill: Weaponsmith)<br />
*Architect: 5 points in Mason, 5 points in Building Designer. Unlocks all buildings from the start, and will build nice stone ones that improve dwarven moods. The sheer amount of construction needed to build a secure and functional initial fort quickly may make it a good idea to turn OFF all labors for the Architect except Mason and Building Designer, at least until everyone and everything is safely underground. If you ever do finish building everthing you need, give him back any labors you turned off, and add Engraver (train him by smoothing stone first) and Miner labors as well. (Moodable skill: Mason)<br />
*Mech Pilot: 5 points in Mechanic, 5 points in any skill you want. I used to think Ballistae were awesome, but sadly they only work well on paper, unless built (and crewed) in large numbers. If you still want to use them, putting his 5 points in Siege Engineer is better than Siege Operator, for high quality machines straight away. Build some extra catapults and sling rocks around for training when your dwarves have some free time, if you still want to use siege engines. Otherwise, you can give him a quick crafting skill, possibly one of the job skills the other dwarves would be training up from Dabbling (Armorer or Blacksmith would probably be the best). Don't attach a seriously time-consuming skill like Wood Burner or Furnace Operator, though, because this dwarf should mostly be making mechanisms for your cage traps. (Moodable skill: Mechanic)<br />
Crafting and Gem Setter skills should be available through immigrants, but the Stonecraft skill can be trained up easily and cheaply from nothing by any dwarf that spends much time idle, if you absolutely must have something quickly. Fishing and Hunting can likewise usually wait until immigrants arrive with these skills. Chasing wolves around with your militia can be frustrating, but eventually one of them will make the mistake of trying to stand and fight, and even simple clothes can deflect most animals' teeth, claws, and horns (just don't go after bears without metal armor!). <br />
<br />
Recommended embark items:<br />
*1+ copper picks (use any leftover embark points to buy up to 5 spares)<br />
*1 iron anvil, to guarantee you can make more picks quickly.<br />
*1 wooden training axe, or battle axe if the "training axes can chop down trees" exploit is ever fixed. This will keep you from being left without fuel for the forge if you run out of wood, but can be skipped if you're embarking to an area where there are no trees (or if you're going to DIY it).<br />
*1+ of each type of seed, mostly for the bags, as you will probably be surface farming with gathered plants until the caravans arrive anyhow. Note that quarry bush seeds are edible, and dwarves will often consume your whole initial stockpile before you can plant them.<br />
*35-40 units of meat/fish, one from each different animal or fish that is available to your culture for 2 embark points per unit. This will give you enough meat to keep your dwarves fed until the first caravan arrives, and the maximum number of free barrels as well. Meat is generally preferred by dwarves over organs that aren't prepared in a kitchen first (meaning the barrels will be empty and available for other uses faster). Note that some animals may not have meat available (vermin like cave spiders, for example), in which case organs are preferable to nothing at all. Note that dwarven nutritional needs seem to have increased since the 31.12 patch; the original recommendation of 25-30 food probably won't even last you through summer, and getting this minimum might not even last through autumn without farming or hunting some extra.<br />
*31 each of dwarven ale, dwarven beer, and dwarven rum. Dwarven wine will be produced in large quantities on site once subterranean farming is ready to grow Plump Helmets, and this should be enough alcohol to keep your dwarves happy until a caravan arrives with more if you need it. Dwarven alcohol needs have increased a bit too, it seems.<br />
*Anything else that you may need more of than the site can provide right away:<br />
**Wood, if the biomes are devoid of trees (glacier, mountain, desert, etc.).<br />
**Metal ore, if you have plenty of trees but may need more/better metal than you are likely to find immediately (savage/evil biomes).<br />
**Metal bars, if you need metal but trees are scarce.<br />
**Weapons and armor, if you are mad enough to take on a Terrifying biome.<br />
**Flux stone, if you want to make steel quickly but the embark site lacks chalk, limestone, or dolomite (marble and calcite are normally only found far too deep to be of much early use).<br />
**Dogs, if you want a decent "militia" fairly quickly. Build a kennel and have the Boss train them into War Dogs. One male and the rest females will produce more dogs as quickly as possible.<br />
**Plaster bags, for the hospital. You can usually find some plaster-making stones on site, but turning them into bags of plaster powder for setting bones is a difficult, time consuming, and fuel burning process, until you can build magma kilns. On the other hand, if you aren't expecting serious combat before the caravans arrive, you can usually buy more than you will ever use from them fairly cheap.<br />
**Plump Helmets, as an emergency food/alcohol supply if you anticipate problems making a subterranean farm. Buy in quantities ending in 1, for the maximum number of free barrels. They're quite a bit more expensive than seeds, or other foodstuffs, but their utility makes up for that.<br />
<br />
===Elfhater's "Start With Steel Without Paying (Much) For It" Strategy===<br />
<br />
This is a strategy for a component of a starting build. It shows you how to get a steel axe/pick for 75 points. The steel axe is a very good weapon, and the pick is useful itself.<br />
<br />
'''Before Embark'''<br />
*No picks or axes<br />
*2 iron ore (hematite, limonite, or magnetite)<br />
*2 flux stones (calcite, chalk, dolomite, limestone, or marble)<br />
*5 logs<br />
*Skills: Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Metalsmith and Weaponsmith<br />
<br />
'''After Embark'''<br />
*Deconstruct wagon (this gets you three wood)<br />
<br />
*Build a wood furnace with a flux stone<br />
**Make '''one''' ash<br />
**Make '''seven''' charcoal<br />
**Deconstruct the furnace<br />
<br />
*Build a smelter using the ash<br />
**Smelt both iron ores into iron bars<br />
**Smelt '''one''' iron bar into pig iron<br />
**Smelt iron bar and pig iron bar into steel<br />
**Deconstruct the smelter<br />
<br />
*Build a metalsmith's forge using the ash<br />
**Make '''one''' steel axe<br />
**Cut down (at least) one tree<br />
**Deconstruct forge<br />
<br />
*Build a wood furnace using the ash<br />
**Burn wood<br />
**Deconstruct wood furnace<br />
<br />
*Build a metalsmith's forge using the ash<br />
**Make '''one''' steel pick.<br />
<br />
*End with One Steel pick and one Steel Axe for less Embark points then a copper pick and copper axe.<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}<br />
[[Category:Guides]]</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Starting_build&diff=127167v0.31:Starting build2010-09-06T06:27:45Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* BillyBob and the Rock Nuts */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
A '''starting build''' is a personal ''strategy'' for choosing the initial supplies, equipment, and {{l|skill}}s of your initial seven dwarves when starting a new game in {{l|fortress mode}}. These skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page attempts to give advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself, as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
But one thing should be made clear - there is no "best" build, no "perfect" or "clearly superior" final mix of skills and items. There are too many variables to connect, not the least of which is... you! Your play style, what you, as an individual player, consider preferable for the proper mix of fun and challenge. And then there is the environment, where your dwarves will arrive, the creatures, the resources available, and so forth.<br />
<br />
Items are tied to starting skills, and starting skills are tied to the expected environment for your chosen embark, and all are tied to your preferences for playing the game - not all sites require (or invite) the same approach, and no two players would take the same approach to the same environment.<br />
<br />
So while suggestions can be made, and new ideas presented for your consideration, ultimately the final "best" mix for you will have to come from your experience, which will begin to grow during your first game. Without understanding "everything", some decisions will just have to be guesswork - and even later you never know "everything".<br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
A starting build must be seen as a whole - the embark location affects the needed supplies, and influences what skills may be most needed or useful. Along with this is player preferences - if you wish an economy based on {{l|prepared meal}}s, {{l|glass}}, or {{l|steel}}, each of those have very different requirements. Likewise, if you want to play a military game, fighting off sieges with huge battles, that's a very different mix (and different site requirements) than if you want a calm location to build your perfect {{l|mega construction}}. <br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
With only 7 dwarves, you can't take every {{l|skill}}, so you have to balance what you do take. At this starting phase, each dwarf can only be assigned a maximum total of 10 skill levels, with no single skill starting higher than "5". With 7 starting dwarves, you could take no skills at all, or take 70 skills all at level 1, or 14 skills all at level 5* (2 per dwarf), the highest allowed at embark, or (most likely) something in between the last two, but closer to that last. <br />
<br />
:''(* Note that an unskilled dwarf starts with all Skills at Level '''0'''. Adding +5 Levels is then Level '''5'''. This is true regardless of how many "points" a level costs when first buying skills at embark.)''<br />
<br />
Once play starts, dwarves can learn any and all skills - these choices only determine what sort of "head start" they have, what they are good at when they first hit the ground. See {{l|experience}} for a discussion of increasing skills during game play.<br />
<br />
The considerations are several:<br />
<br />
:* Maximizing starting skill ranks vs. generalizing and having more skills covered at lower levels.<br />
:* Balancing multiple skills for a single dwarf, so they aren't constantly needed for two different tasks at critical periods<br />
:* Military vs economic needs<br />
:* Your goals vs "basic survival needs" to keep your fortress healthy and happy.<br />
:* Speed that a skill can be trained in game<br />
:* Demand for a skill during a game<br />
:* Whether quality or speed are significant considerations for tasks/final product<br />
:* Balancing the desire to create {{l|wealth}} ''(with high-value products)'' with the need to maintain {{l|thought|morale}} ''(with low-value but commonly used products, like {{l|bed}}s, which normally are made from {{l|wood}})''.<br />
:* & most importantly - ''your playstyle'' - what '''you''' think is "fun"!<br />
<br />
While there are some arguable "no-brainer" choices (or are for each player, according to their playstyle), the final few selections are often a coin toss, or close to. And there is often more than one way to skin a cat - in fact, while many players recommend ''never'' starting with more than one cat, starting with many cats (breeding them for leather, bones and meat) and a skilled {{l|leatherworker}} and/or {{l|bone carver}} is one way to go with (part of) a starting build. Until you have some personal experience, the various suggestions and advice may mean little, but will have more meaning after your first fortress inevitably fails - {{l|Losing|losing is fun}}.<br />
<br />
So don't over-think it at first - you'll make a good guess, dive in, and learn far more than we can explain here.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
The starting items are what is needed for your dwarves to survive until they are self-sufficient, or at least until the first yearly {{l|caravan}}s will keep them afloat. The first won't show up until Autumn, so that's more than 2 seasons your dwarves are on their own.<br />
<br />
A dwarf eats about 2 meals a season, and drinks a little more than 4 drinks in that same time. If you add your expected {{L|migrant}}s, multiply that by the number of seasons, you can estimate how much food and booze will be needed to get you safely through to the first {{L|caravan}} - barring {{L|losing|the unforeseen}}. In your starting build, you can bring all of that, or your {{l|hunter}}s, {{l|Plant gathering|plant gatherers}}, {{l|fisherdwarf}}s, {{l|grower}}s and {{l|brewer}}s can provide some or most of it. <br />
<br />
Similarly, most of the finished products are expensive to buy pre-embark, and so a minimum is recommended - maybe a pick or two for immediate mining and basic defense, maybe a (cheap?) axe* or two for better defense and cutting wood, thread, cloth or a rope for a {{l|well}}, maybe a few leather to make bags, and call it good.<br />
<br />
:''(* "Wooden practice axes" cost only 17P, and cut down wood just fine. They will be significantly weaker than metal axes in combat, but still far superior to {{L|wrestling}}, and you can {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}} quickly enough.)''<br />
<br />
You can produce any and all of those from scratch if you are willing to wait - and your {{l|surroundings}} don't kill you first. Raw materials are much cheaper, in the form of {{l|ore}}s, {{l|wood}}, {{l|leather}} and so forth, but whether you want to take the time at the start of the game is the question. The trade-off is always a balance of cost savings vs. time savings when you first strike the earth. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
====Your civilization====<br />
On the map menu, if you hit {{k|Tab}} twice, you will see a list of possible {{l |Civilization}}s that your dwarves can start from, if there is more than one. Each can have access to different starting equipment and material to offer you - some will be significantly better or worse supplied, and some may be lacking one key item you desire, while another will lack something else equally critical to your plan. Unfortunately you will only find out when selecting your items, after selecting a {{l|location}}. To chose another Civilization requires a start-over. Another important difference is whether your civilization is at {{l|war}} with one of the neighbours; This results in early attacks on your fort and, obviously, no trade {{l|caravan}}s from them.<br />
<br />
If you don't like the civilization you chose, or wish to compare what each has to offer, you must either finish the embark, "abandon" the fortress and then re-embark in the same location (using a '''saved''' copy of the game world!), or use {{k|Ctl}}+{{k|Alt}}+{{k|Del}} (or the equiv for your OS), shut down the game and restart it from scratch, then Start again, reload the game world, and find the same embark site - this is not difficult if you made careful notes, but is still a pain, no doubt. <br />
<br />
Every such re-start gives you a different mix of dwarves with different names, {{L |attribute|attributes}}, {{L |personality|personalities}} and {{L |preferences}}, but the civilizations are part of the map and stay constant. The default civilization chosen for you will vary, however.<br />
<br />
===Saving a starting mix===<br />
Once you have the mix of items and skills that you like, you can hit {{k|s}} and save it to a template with a custom name. In a later game, you can pick that profile when you embark. If your selected civilization does not have some of the desired items in your template, this is announced clearly, and a different civilization can be tried as described above, or you can continue and change your mix.<br />
<br />
If you match skills to the {{l|preferences}} and {{L |personality|personalities}} of your dwarves, it may be an idea not to include any skills in such a template, as they will simply be applied in the original order to the current dwarves as they appear on the list.<br />
<br />
If you find additional items that you wish to add (perhaps another type of cheap meat, or an ore not previously available), you can edit those in by hitting {{k|s}}, overwriting your old template. <br />
<br />
:''(You can also go into the .txt file, located at data/init/embark_profiles, and edit in the SKILLS or ITEMS as you want - the syntax is fairly straightforward.)''<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
= "Play Now!" =<br />
This option gives you an automatic, low-powered and generalized starting mix with no thinking involved. If you select this option, you are ''immediately'' advanced to the game map with no chance to alter your starting skills or items. <br />
<br />
When you pick this option, you currently{{version|0.31.12}} start with:<br />
<br />
'''Dwarves'''<br />
:* Adequate {{l|Miner}} (+2 {{l|Experience|skill levels}}) <br />
:* Novice {{l|Carpenter}}/ {{l|Bowyer}} (+1 skill level in each skill)<br />
:* Novice {{l|Engraver}}/ {{l|Mason}}/ {{l|Mechanic}}/ {{l|Building designer|Building Designer}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Gem cutter|Gem Cutter}}/ {{l|Gem setter|Gem Setter}}/ {{l|Wood crafter}}/ {{l|Stone crafter}}/ {{l|Bone carver|Bone Carver}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Fisherdwarf}}<br />
:* Novice {{l|Fish cleaner|Fish Cleaner}}/ {{l|Butcher}}/ {{l|Tanner}}/ {{l|Weaver}}/ {{l|Clothier}}/ {{l|Leatherworker}}<br />
:And one "Leader", with Novice in:<br />
:* {{l|Wood cutter|Wood Cutter}}/ {{l|Brewer}}/ {{l|Cook}}/ {{l|Grower}}/ {{l|Herbalist}}/ {{l|Wood burner|Wood Burner}}/ {{l|Furnace operator|Furnace Operator}}/ {{l|Lye maker|Lye Maker}}/ {{l|Potash maker|Potash Maker}}<br />
:''plus'' Competent in:<br />
:* {{l|Wound dresser|Wound Dresser}}, {{l|Diagnostician}}, {{l|Surgeon}}, {{l|Bone doctor|Bone Doctor}}, {{l|Suturer}}.<br />
<br />
:''(Note that that last dwarf has far more "levels" in starting skills (by twice!) for a single dwarf than are allowed by "Planning Carefully", below!)''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Items'''<br />
:* 2 Copper {{l|pick}}s <br />
:* 2 Copper battle {{l|axe}}s<br />
:* 1 Iron {{l|anvil}} <br />
:* 60 units alcohol (20 each of 3 random types<sup>1</sup>, 12 free barrels)<br />
:* 5 ''each'' {{l|seed}}s<sup>2</sup> (& 6 bags)<br />
:* 15 units of meat (one random type, 10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 15 units of fish (one random type, 10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 15 units of plump helmets (10 + 5 units in 2 barrels<sup>3</sup>)<br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber thread <br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber cloth <br />
:* 5 pig tail fiber bag <br />
:* 3 pig tail fiber ropes <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> buckets <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> splints <br />
:* 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> crutch <br />
:* 2 dogs (random sex)<br />
:* 2 cats (random sex)<br />
:* 1 random cow/ox/mule/horse (random sex)<br />
<br />
::''Notes:''<br />
:::1. ''There are only 4 different {{L |alcohol}}s possible at this stage, so if two or three of the same are randomly chosen, it's quite possible to start with 40 or 60 of the same type. (A wider variety is usually better.)''<br />
:::2. ''The six underground crops are: dimple cup, cave wheat, plump helmet, sweet pods, pig tail, quarry bush.''<br />
:::3. ''A barrel can hold up to 10 dry items (or 5 wet). One of these barrels is only half full. ''<br />
:::4. ''All wooden items will be of 1 type of wood.''<br />
<br />
As a challenge for an experienced player, this is not an uncommon choice. But even as a starting player you can do much better if you choose the "'''Prepare for the journey carefully'''" option and do just that - prepare carefully, as described below...<br />
<br />
="Prepare for the Journey Carefully"=<br />
Good advice. This option allows you complete control over your starting mix of skills and beginning items. By default, your dwarves start with no skills, and you are offered the following items, which are very similar to the "Play Now" mix, but all are optional and can be sold back and changed according to your preferences. Each item costs a number of "points" - you will buy ''both'' your starting items ''and'' the starting {{L |skills}} for your dwarves with one pool of combined points, 1274 total. <br />
<br />
(This choice also allows you to select/create the {{l|Fortress name}} yourself, rather than have it randomly generated.)<br />
<br />
The point costs for the default items are listed below.<br />
<br />
::{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
! Default Items !! Cost<br />(in "points") !! Comments<br />
|-<br />
| 2 Copper {{l|pick}}s || 88 (44 each) || for {{l|mining}}<br />
|-<br />
| 2 Copper battle {{l|axe}}s || 136 (68 each) || weapons and {{l|woodcutting}}<br />
|-<br />
| 1 Iron {{l|anvil}} || 100 || required for any<br /> metal working<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 20 alcohol, random<sup>1</sup> || 40 (2 each) || 4 free barrels<br />
|-<br />
| 5 of each underground seed<sup>2</sup> || | 30 6*5 (1 each) || 6 free bags<br />
|-<br />
| 15 meat of one random (cheap) type || 30 (2 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 15 fish of one random (cheap) type || 30 (2 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 15 {{l|Plump helmet}}s || 60 (4 each) || 2 free barrels<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber thread || 60 (12 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber cloth || 70 (14 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 5 pig tail fiber bag || 100 (20 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 3 pig tail fiber ropes || 60 (20 each) || <br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> buckets || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> splints || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| 3 wooden<sup>4</sup> crutch || 30 (10 each) || medical<br />
|-<br />
| No dogs, no cats || || <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
:1. There are only 4 different {{L|alcohol}}s possible at this stage, so if two or three of the same are randomly chosen, it's quite possible to start with 40 or 60 of the same type. (A wider variety is usually better.)<br />
:2. The six underground crops are: dimple cup, cave wheat, plump helmet, sweet pods, pig tail, and quarry bush.<br />
:3. A barrel can hold up to 10 dry items (or 5 wet). One of these barrels is only half full. <br />
:4. All wooden items will be of 1 type of wood.<br />
<br />
With the above items, your point pool starts at '''300''' (visible in the lower right corner). This is not ''close'' to enough points to buy full skills for all your dwarves, but you can sell back any or all of the above items that you choose and recover the points, spending them as you prefer. There is no quick and easy solution to this, but the possible options are infinite*. Returning all equipment is worth 1274 points total, but unused points are of no use after embark, once the actual gameplay starts, so spend now or waste them.<br />
<br />
:''(* Note that an anvil is needed to do any metalworking, and in turn cannot be created without another anvil. Selling your anvil back means you will not do any metalworking at least until the Autumn {{L |caravan}}, and then only if they bring one - which they 'usually' do, but not always. Next dwarven caravan is a year after that, and so on.)''<br />
<br />
=====Using the menu=====<br />
Use {{k|Tab}} to switch between selecting Skills and Items. Use the 4 directional keys or number pad to navigate to highlight the different choices/columns, and {{k|+}} or {{k|-}} to choose more or less of the highlighted item or skill. When viewing items, hit {{k|n}} to go to a menu for any "new" items, that are not currently listed, including any you removed by reducing the number to 0; select the item, hit {{k|Enter}}, then increase the number desired as above ({{k|+}} or {{k|-}}) in the main menu.<br />
<br />
If you cannot buy additional skill levels, you are out of points and must return some items for additional points. Higher-priced items will automatically be removed from viewable new items if you do not have enough points for those selections, showing only what you can afford with your current points.<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
At this stage, pre-embark, skills cost a number of starting points, equaling monetary value. Later, during fortress mode, all skills will be trained by practice, and "cost" is no longer a concern. All dwarves start with "No Skill" and the first additional skill level (Novice) costs 5 points. To buy the next level would cost 6, and so on. To buy up Proficient (the max allowed to start with), costs 5+6+7+8+9, or 35 points. <br />
<br />
A dwarf can start with up to 10 additional levels, regardless whether that's 10 skills at Novice, or 2 skills at Proficient. So, if you are going to buy the maximum skills allowed (highly recommended), that can cost from between 50 to 70 points each, but is usually around 400-450+ for all 7 dwarves.<br />
<br />
Any dwarf can have any labor designated, and they will perform that task and learn or improve that skill, even if they have no skill related to that labor when they start. Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively, while dwarves with higher skill work faster and/or produce a significantly higher quality product. Some skills are not used often, and/or produce no "quality" in the final product, or produce qualities that have little impact on the game - for these it's questionable whether investing in high starting levels is worthwhile, but that's often a judgment call. Other skills might be very easy to level and as such, investing to them is fairly pointless headstart.<br />
<br />
{{l|Quality}} is a central concept in the game - it affects {{l|food}}, {{l|alcohol}}, and almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: {{l|trading}} goods, {{l|barrel}}s, {{l|clothing}}, {{l|armor}}, {{l|furniture}}, {{l|weapon|weapons}}, and so on. Quality also has a large effect on the worth of an item while {{l|trading}}. Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy {{l|thought}}s. This tends to decrease the incidences of {{l|tantrum}}s, increasing a fortress's longevity.<br />
<br />
Some skills are also trained up fairly quickly or cheaply, especially where the task consumes no (valuable) materials, or doesn't matter in the final product - mining, furnace operator, wood cutting, butcher, tanner, glass making and (especially) {{l|administrator}} skills being only a few examples.<br />
<br />
==== Which skills do I need, really? ====<br />
<br />
The only thing that you absolutely must do in the first year is get your food supplies into a food stockpile, preferably inside, otherwise your food will rot on the ground and your dwarves will starve. Anything else you want to do can be accommodated by sufficient investment in initial food supplies and/or skills. This means the options for possible starting builds are vast because virtually any set of starting skills for your dwarves is viable (and that's before you even think about equipment, which adds more variables). So the short answer is: none.<br />
<br />
That said, there are some skills which will be '''used''', to one extent or another, by virtually every fortress - but that doesn't mean you '''need''' or even want to invest points in them to start. You could even manipulate the fortress (see {{l|challenge}}) to completely avoid one or more of the following, but these are the skills you will find it exceptionally hard to avoid creating jobs for:<br />
:{{l|Mining}} - to dig your fortress, and gain stone for projects. Only possible to avoid using if you're secretly an elf.<br />
:* Inexperienced {{l|miner}}s work very slowly and are less likely to recover mined gems or valuable ores. Mining can be leveled up quite quickly by mining {{l|soil#soil|soil}}, but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
:{{l|Carpentry}} - {{l|bed}}s can only be produced from {{l|wood}} (rare {{l|mood}}s aside)<br />
:*Carpentry is used, but opinions differ - on one hand, wood items are just not worth that much {{l|value}}-wise ''(10's of dwarfbucks vs 100's for stone furniture or 1000's for armor or prepared foods, for instance)'', so the difference in monetary value between high-quality and no-quality is minor for wood products. However, high-quality {{l|bed}}s are one of the easiest ways to help make and keep your dwarves {{l|thought|happy}} (since every dwarf will encounter a bed regularly), so some players swear by it.<br />
:{{l|Masonry}} - to build walls and stairs, and fashion dwarven furniture from stone. Possible to work around, but incredibly hard and annoying to do. <br />
:{{l|Grower|Growing}} - your farmers' work echoes throughout so many other tasks, it's stunning<br />
:* While its possible to feed your fortress on nothing but caravan goods, you'll never come by enough alcohol that way, so you'll eventually need to grow crops for brewing, and dwarves will literally go crazy if forced to drink nothing but water for long periods. Thus you'll want to plan for farming eventually - not that you need to bring a highly skilled {{l|Grower}}, but it'll certainly be ''very'' helpful. Likewise, a skilled {{l|brewer}} produces higher quality {{l|alcohol}} (''though the quality is hidden!)'', which improves your dwarves' mood, as does a skilled {{l|cook}} with the foods they prepare. However, most food can be eaten raw, and so long as they are not starving there is life.<br />
:{{l|Brewing}} - all dwarves "need alcohol to get through the working day"<br />
:{{l|Mechanics}} - if you want traps, and most people will. Also needed for most machinery, now more essential than ever since irrigating is no longer optional.<br />
:{{l|Architecture|Building Designer}} - mandatory for some buildings and constructions, but skill only improves speed a tad and increases structure {{l|value}}<br />
:{{L|Herbalist}} - Herbalism is good early source of food and more importantly, seeds you can plant in your outside farm plots.<br />
:* Inexperienced {{l|herbalist|herbalists}} will gather stacks of only one or two {{l|plant}}s, and often nothing at all, and inexperienced {{l|farming|farmers}} will often plant stacks of only one or two plants. This results in a small overall output which takes many {{l|container#container|containers}} to store in, less effective {{l|food}} preparation in the {{l|kitchen}}, and more space needed for {{l|stockpiles}}.<br />
:{{l|Broker skills}} - most importantly {{l|appraiser}} - a minimum of Broker skills are highly recommended to start with at the Novice (1 pt) level - it'll make your life much easier (especially Novice level of {{l|Appraiser}}, at least, as it greatly facilitates trading).<br />
:{{L|Record keeper}} - Lets you be able to see the exact amount of things you have much faster than training one, and is necessary to view the stocks screen.<br />
<br />
Of the above, Masonry, Growing, Brewing, Cooking, and Mechanics are generally worth considering as "highly desirable" starting skills for your dwarves. <br />
<br />
Remember, '''any skill can be used untrained, and/or get trained on the job''' - it just means a slower process and/or average lower quality product than if done by a dwarf with a higher {{l|experience|skill level}}.<br />
<br />
Ultimately the answer to "What skills do I need?" is "Whichever ''you'' want". Choosing a mixture of these commonly used skills and your desired specialized skills will make starting up your fortress easier and more efficient.<br />
<br />
==== What considerations could inform my skill selection?====<br />
<br />
You will often want some optional skills, often vastly more than something as useful and desirable as even masonry. For example, any player intending to do more than dabble in the metal industry may well want to start with multiple dwarves each highly skilled in at least one metal industry skill, especially those that produce goods with {{L|Quality|quality}}.<br />
<br />
The following may influence your choices of skills:<br />
<br />
#Some skills are harder to gain experience in than others - requiring valuable resources or taking an extended period of time, and thus inconvenient to train from the ground up. Investing in some of these extensively in your initial dwarves can make those industries much less painful to start. For example, metal-related skills generally eat metal bars, and thus the less time you spend training metal workers up to a decent level, the faster they'll be churning out high-quality items for you, and the fewer bars they'll waste becoming skilled. On the other hand, despite its importance, skills like mining train relatively quickly and barring extenuating circumstances (expected need to accomplish particular digging projects in the first month or you'll get mauled by a Giant for example) there's little need to actually invest your starting skills in it - they can learn on the job. <br />
#Keep in mind that some skills are used to make {{l|legendary artifact}}s, and successfully making an artifact will give the dwarf a lot of experience in the used skill. It can be worth investing in some skills solely to bias your artifact skill pool in the hopes of getting a legendary dwarf in an industry you want to really get working on a year or two in. (See {{l|Strange mood}}s for more info.)<br />
#If you plan on settling in a dangerous area, consider including at least some military skills, if not a dedicated {{l|soldier}}, or several. The nature of the environment should dictate the military skills chosen (for example, marksdwarves will be an ineffective counter to expected roving hordes of {{l|skeletal}} wildlife).<br />
#Migrants can and will arrive with a wide selection of decently trained skills. While it is a gamble, chances are pretty decent that migrants will arrive with a highly trained skill that is also highly desirable and would usurp the job of one of the four starting ones. The first few migration waves are likely to give you a much better talent pool than what you can assign at embark.<br />
#Skills rust if not used and they can eventually de-level. Consider that skills which you will use years after embark are going to be rusty or even deleveled.<br />
<br />
<!--<br />
NEEDS REWRITING ONCE WE HAVE THE NEW DATA<br />
<br />
Another consideration are {{l|attributes}} - a dwarf with 10 skills at Novice each has 5000 {{l|Experience#Increasing skills|experience}}, or just over 2 {{l|attribute}}s, while a dwarf with 2 skills at Proficient has 7000 experience, or almost 3 attributes. One extra Agility can make a big difference in tasks, one extra Strength or Toughness make the difference in an unexpected combat, etc. etc.<br />
--><br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some {{l|skills}} are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific {{l|attribute}}s. One could level up a miner until he becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier, or retire him to haul stone. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy a second critical job that will demand a lot of time away from their focus. There are many parts to a suit of armour, so armoursmithing will take more time than weaponsmithing - once you have one weapon per soldier, he's done. Masons, miners, growers, and any craft that your fortress will base their economy off of (glass, stonecrafts, armour, etc) will take a lot of time.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, another approach is to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry, or spend all their time in one generally narrow part of the fortress - the forges, or the kitchens, or outdoors, for instance. So combining Farming with cooking, rather than mining, for example, and turn on only Haul Food, not Haul Stone. Woodcutter/Herbalist/Mason/Axedwarf (for outdoor walls/projects) might be another combination - the possibilities are endless.<br />
<br />
Some combinations follow naturally in sequence to each other, but also can conflict with each other. One animal is butchered, then the leather is tanned, and the meat is cooked. But if you have 5 animals, several will rot before one dwarf can process all of those. A highly skilled craftsdwarf is often better suited at sitting in their {{l|workshop}} and having others deliver raw materials to them, than going out and obtaining their own raw materials themselves.<br />
<br />
Many builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* '''Outdoors''': Woodcutter/Plant Gatherer. Add {{l|axeman|Axedwarf}} for added security. <br />
* '''Mason+____''' : In many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy dwarf. He could be a spare miner, have abilities that are only rarely needed, or do tasks that can be accomplished quickly like {{l|building designer}}.<br />
* '''Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer'''. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* '''Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook'''. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the {{l|still}}, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* '''Boss''': Novice {{l|Negotiator}}/Novice {{l|Judge of intent}}/Novice {{l|Appraiser}}. This guy will be your {{l|Leader}} and {{l|Trader}}; you can make him {{l|record keeper}} too (the default), at least to start with. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as {{l|Masonry}} and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. Or keep him a generalist, or combine with one of the other options.<br />
* '''Weaponsmith/Leatherworker''': If they're not arming your military, they're making leather armor for them.<br />
* '''{{l|Craftsdwarf}}''', depending on your strategy - e.g. {{l|glass}} maker, {{l|weaponsmith}} or {{l|armorsmith}}, sometimes combined with related tasks from that industry ({{l|furnace operating}}, {{l|wood burner|wood burning}}). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
<br />
Not all combinations have to "look right" together. A weaponsmith will most probably not spend nearly 100% of their time creating weapons - what they do with the other part of their time may have nothing at all to do with forges or smithing. <br />
<br />
* '''Grower/GemCutter''' (or Grower/x-Craft): When gems are found, he's there, otherwise he's outstanding in his fields.<br />
* '''Mechanic/Brewer''': usually produces the mechanized defenses, but does moonshining when it's called for.<br />
* '''Miner/______''': This dwarf will quickly become legendary in mining, and then retire to pursue something else full time. On call for important veins of high-value ore. <br />
* '''Brewer/Appraiser/Leatherworker''': several typically low-demand skills<br />
* '''StoneCrafter/Herbalist''' - after quickly finding above-ground plants for seeds for the first season, they never go back unless something goes wrong.<br />
* '''(x-Craft)/Armor User''': Plan for the future - armor using is slow to train in if this dwarf is ever going to join the military.<br />
<br />
You can max out one skill and have several lower-level skills additionally, or just several skills that are not maxed out - the combinations are (almost) infinite.<br />
<br />
Combinations like these often have one {{l|moodable}} skill and one non-moodable (or a less desired moodable skill at lower level), so any mood will improve the desired one.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills for Moods ====<br />
<br />
{{l|Strange mood}}s will create a Legendary skill of the "moodable" skill with the highest level, and moods take hold of dwarves with different professions at different rates. Some skills are "moodable" where others are not. Another consideration is to place desired moodable skills with non-moodable, to ensure that both the professions and highest skills stay as preferred. Usually this involves one "craft" skill and one "farmer" type skill, such as Armor/Cook, or Weapon/Brewer. This can take some manipulation, and is not of primary concern to many players.<br />
<br />
<br />
=====Matching skills to a dwarf's personal profile=====<br />
Once you have your optimal skill mix for all 7 starting dwarves, you can, if you wish, take the time to {{k|v}}iew each of your individual dwarves and match skills to their {{l|preference}}s. This can be very advantageous: if you have a dwarf who likes {{l|steel}}, {{l|clear glass}}, {{l|crossbow}}s, {{l|siege engine}} parts, or something else equally interesting, they're an ideal candidate for matching skills (specifically for these examples, {{l|armorsmith}}, {{l|glassmaker}}, {{l|bowyer}}, or {{l|siege engineer}}).<br />
<br />
Likewise, if they have any obviously relevant {{l|personality}} strengths or weaknesses, those should be factored in. Some are obscure or ambiguous, but some ("Is constantly active and energetic") are a clear sign.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
An experienced player can start out with no skills for their starting dwarves, 1 copper nugget and an anvil - and nothing else - and have {{l|Make_your_own_weapons#Minimalist_challenge_build|everything they need}}. So what is "needed" is up to what you think is "fun" vs. "too hard" etc. etc. etc.<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. Unless you plan to {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}}, you definitely need to bring one {{l|pick}} for each {{l|miner}}, and if you plan to gather wood, you need an {{l|axe}}, which will become a weapon in wartime. Also a minimum of about 25-30* {{l|food}} and about 55-60* {{l|alcohol}}, which should get 7 dwarves through to the first {{l|caravan}} in Fall. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
::''(* A single dwarf eats about 2x/season, and drinks about 4x/season. With 7 dwarves that's ~approximately~ 14 meals per season and 28 alcohol per season, or ~28 meals and ~56 alcohol until the end of Summer. The Caravan is due sometime in Autumn, usually early Autumn, in the second week or so, but the first won't have enough to keep you going until whenever the next one arrives. Hopefully you'll have some food and brewing industry going by the first, or soon after.)''<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, in quantities ending in a "1" (1, 11, 21, etc.), and alcohols in amounts ending in a "1" or "6". This is to maximize the number of free {{l|barrel|barrels}} you start with; dry foodstuffs fit 10/barrel, and (pre-embark) alcohol fits 5/barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the {{l|wood}} you need to cut and shape in the early game for beds and other necessities. (Seeds are 100/bag, and you don't need near that many of any one type, so 6 bags max with this approach. Even if you don't plan on growing much {{l|cave wheat}}, starting with 1 seed and getting the free bag, and planting that one seed later and dumping the result could be worth it.) Also note that multiple types of meat taken from the same animal (warthog meat and warthog tripe, for example) will be packed into a single barrel on embark, instead of separate barrels (as of version 31.04). <br />
<br />
===== Items for moods =====<br />
When a dwarf is taken by a {{l|strange mood}}, he often needs obscure material or he will go insane and die, possibly with severe consequences to an entire fortress. Bringing along some of the harder-to-find ores ({{l|cassiterite}}, {{l|sphalerite}}, {{l|bismuthinite}}, {{l|garnierite}}), and putting those aside, forbidding their use "just in case", is spending a few points on an insurance policy. Bringing along a few bits of cloth thread is also a good idea. Just in case.<br />
<br />
===== Free Equipment =====<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill may get some leather {{l|armor}}, a crossbow and some bolts for free.<br />
<br />
<!--ANOTHER POINT THAT NEEDS MORE RESEARCH<br />
: As of 27.176.40, this appears to only be true if they have no civilian trade skills - military and social skills are fine, and administrator skills so long as they are not higher than Ambusher. Replace any of those skills with something civilian and they show up in street clothes.<br />
--><br />
<br />
<!--For DF2010<br />
So far all my hunters have had no free starting gear (3 Ambush, 5 marks, 1 armor user, 1 hammer)<br />
--><br />
<br />
<!--DF2010<br />
As long as Ambusher is the highest non-social and non-military skill, the dwarf will show up with a set of leather armor, a metal crossbow, and metal bolts. For this reason, it's advantageous to give at least Novice Ambusher to any "leader" or military dwarves you embark with. You can then disable their Hunting labor so the designated hunter can get some extra gear.<br />
<br />
====Different starting cultures====<br />
Before actually hitting "embark", you often have the option to choose one of several starting dwarven cultures (one of the options shown when you {{k|Tab}} through the various sub-screens). Different cultures will have different meats, fish, stones and etc to offer, and occasionally even different types of armour. The only way to know which is "best" is to remember ''exactly'' where on the 3 maps your embark site is, select one culture, embark and see what they have to offer, then hit {{k|Esc}} and "abandon game", and try it again with a different culture and compare. A real pain, sometimes. (Make a note about your exact starting location, don't trust it to memory.) In general, civilizations that occupy more world-map tiles offer more types of goods, both for embark and for trade. <!-- Somewhat verified on DF2010; this held true on two generated small worlds, saving a 4-tile civ that had 3 more rock types than a 5-tile civ. It seems the same as 40d. 0x517A5D --><br />
<br />
= Site considerations =<br />
Each fortress {{l|location}} offers particular challenges and opportunities, and can make different demands on your starting build. The starting builds below should be adjusted depending on the {{l|region}} your fort occupies, the specific vision you have of your fortress, and what it will take to {{l|losing|stay alive}} where you're going!<br />
<br />
The differences include what {{l|biome}}s, {{l|region}}s and stone {{l|layer}}s are present in your chosen embark site, as viewable on the starting menu.<br />
<br />
=== General Surroundings ===<br />
Simply put, if your {{l|surroundings}} are {{l|evil}} or {{l|savage}}, your dwarves have a higher risk of suddenly facing personal combat before they are safely behind their defenses. Consider bringing extra weaponry, in the form of axes, picks or crossbows (see {{l|Starting_builds#Free_Equipment|free equipment}}). Hand in hand with those, consider skill mixes that include {{l|axedwarf}}, {{l|mining}} (the skill used to wield a pick), {{l|marksdwarf}}, or {{l|wrestling}} (a solid unarmed-combat skill).<br />
<br />
The same is true if you are embarking near an exposed magma vent or an open chasm - these features can be seen on the embark map, but it's impossible to tell if they are "open" to the surface or not, until you are there in person.<br />
<br />
Be sure to include some source of {{l|water}} on the map, preferably running {{l|water}}. Water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and {{l|lake}}s will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure, in Hot climates {{l|murky pool}}s will dry up, and in Dry ones rain will only rarely re-fill them, if ever. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
===Aquifers===<br />
If an {{l|aquifer}} is present in the first soil or stone layers (visible on the pre-embark menu), it may bar all access to {{l|stone}} and {{l|ore}} until you find a way through the water barrier. Consider bringing some stone for building, and ore for your first basic needs. This may be critical to getting your fortress running smoothly.<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Mountains often have abundant {{l|ore}}s, but at the loss of trees and plants. In previous versions lacking {{L|cavern}}s, this was a serious drawback. In DF2010, brave pioneers can dig down into the caverns to find essentials like water, mud, and plants. However, players should be aware that above-ground crops will not grow in mountain biomes, no matter how muddy you may make the surface.<br />
<br />
Depending on the exact layers, it's common to find exposed {{l|vein}}s of useful {{l|ore}}s that can be immediately mined for {{l|Make your own weapons|DIY}} weapons and tools.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded/Plains ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents. More water also means a high likelyhood of an {{l|aquifer}} being present. Make sure to check on embark.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is the potential lack of exposed {{l|stone}} to mine. The first level(s) below the surface is often {{l|soil}} of some type, which offers no building materials. However, soil is mined much more quickly than stone (x3-x4 faster), and expansive accommodations (rooms) can be achieved quickly even by untrained miners. You will find stone, you just have to go down a bit for it - but that's what dwarves do, isn't it?<br />
<br />
{{l|Experience|Training}} a {{l|Miner}} from No Skill to Proficient takes <NEED NEW TIME> in soil, and to Legendary in less than <DITTO>.<br />
<br />
=== Oceanside ===<br />
With many features in common with some of the above locations, {{l|beach}}es are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a flowing {{l|water}} of some sort. <br />
<br />
By definition, the settlement will fall between (at least) two {{l|biome}}s (one land, one water), potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the {{l|terrifying}} ocean is full of amphibious zombie {{l|whale}}s.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) {{l|biome}}s are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as {{l|glacier}}s are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. {{l|Desert}}s and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
Hunters should be replaced with fisherdwarves and a fish cleaner (although the latter can be easily trained). Depending how much water vs. land, more starting wood and ores might be helpful. Swimming is rarely useful in Fortress mode, even at the beach, and can be trained.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Sample starting builds==<br />
To use an example starting build, open data/init/embark_profiles.txt and paste the text into it. Next time you embark, the profile will appear as a possible group to take. Using embark profiles is faster than planning carefully, but totally skips dwarf personality. Dwarves are simply assigned first come, first served.<br />
=== BillyBob and the Rock Nuts ===<br />
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Profession<br />
!Skills<br />
|-<br />
|FarmerBrewer<br />
|Grower-5, Brewer-5<br />
|-<br />
|MinerMason<br />
|Mining-5, Masonry-3, Engraving-2<br />
|-<br />
|MinerJeweller<br />
|Mining-5, Masonry-2, GemCutting-4<br />
|-<br />
|LumberjackHerbalist<br />
|Woodcutting-4,Herbalism-4, Axedwarf, Carpentry<br />
|-<br />
|CookDoctor<br />
|Cook-3, Threshing-2, Diagnose, DressWounds, Suture, SetBones, Surgery<br />
|-<br />
|CarpenterLeader<br />
|Carpentry-4, Leadership-3, Negotiate, Appraisal, Record Keeper<br />
|-<br />
|CrafterArchitect<br />
|Stonecraft-5, Building Designer-3, Mechanic<br />
|}<br />
The lumberjack is the only one that _has_ to go outside, and all the rest can work indoors. Two main sources of income are farming (Sweet Pods->Dwarven Syrup) and Rock Crafting (to buy elven wood/barrels).<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
[PROFILE]<br />
[TITLE:BillyBob and the Rock Nuts]<br />
[SKILL:1:MINING:5]<br />
[SKILL:1:DETAILSTONE:3]<br />
[SKILL:1:MASONRY:2]<br />
[SKILL:2:MINING:5]<br />
[SKILL:2:MASONRY:1]<br />
[SKILL:2:CUTGEM:4]<br />
[SKILL:3:WOODCUTTING:4]<br />
[SKILL:3:CARPENTRY:1]<br />
[SKILL:3:HERBALISM:3]<br />
[SKILL:3:AXE:1]<br />
[SKILL:3:ARMOR:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:CARPENTRY:4]<br />
[SKILL:4:NEGOTIATION:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:APPRAISAL:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:RECORD_KEEPING:1]<br />
[SKILL:4:LEADERSHIP:3]<br />
[SKILL:5:BREWING:5]<br />
[SKILL:5:PLANT:5]<br />
[SKILL:6:PROCESSPLANTS:2]<br />
[SKILL:6:COOK:3]<br />
[SKILL:6:DRESS_WOUNDS:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:DIAGNOSE:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SURGERY:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SET_BONE:1]<br />
[SKILL:6:SUTURE:1]<br />
[SKILL:7:STONECRAFT:5]<br />
[SKILL:7:MECHANICS:1]<br />
[SKILL:7:DESIGNBUILDING:4]<br />
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK:INORGANIC:COPPER]<br />
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE:INORGANIC:COPPER]<br />
[ITEM:1:ANVIL:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:11:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:DRINK]<br />
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:12:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:11:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:SEED]<br />
[ITEM:11:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:MARMOT_HOARY:STOMACH]<br />
[ITEM:11:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:STRUCTURAL]<br />
[ITEM:1:THREAD:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:1:CLOTH:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:3:BOX:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:2:CHAIN:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:THREAD]<br />
[ITEM:3:BUCKET:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:2:SPLINT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:2:CRUTCH:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ALDER:WOOD]<br />
[ITEM:15:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:WARTHOG:MUSCLE]<br />
[PET:2:DOG:FEMALE:TRAINED_WAR]<br />
[PET:1:DOG:MALE:TRAINED_WAR]<br />
[PET:2:CAT:FEMALE:STANDARD]<br />
[PET:1:CAT:MALE:STANDARD]<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
===Tatter's Ragtime Band===<br />
<br />
Designed to pair important time-consuming skills with important but quickly completed skills, moodable skills with non-moodable skills, and generally embark only with skills that can't be trained from "unskilled" quickly (for example, no mining skills). Tailored to minimize bugs in versions 31.12.<br />
*Boss: 5 points in Armor User, 1 point in Appraiser, Negotiator, Judge of Intent, Record Keeper, and Organizer. Will be your chief miner, militia commander, and all-around noble early on, and almost certainly will become expedition leader as well. As other dwarves arrive with mining and/or noble skills (even if they aren't as high-level as the Boss's), replace the Boss with them as soon as possible, to relieve his workload. Keep the Boss as your militia commander and broker, mining mostly to train his skill with a pick, until a dwarf with better skills for these tasks arrives. If you embark with dogs, give the Boss the Animal Trainer labor as well and have him train them into War Dogs for extra protection. Note: As of 31.12, training seems to finally be working as intended, making axe/sword/hammer/spear dwarves feasable. Swap the Armor User with any other weapon skills if you like, but Armor User seems to be the slowest skill to develop, and I personally prefer to stick with it for the Boss. Plus, picks being pretty crummy weapons will help if you decide to make a Sherrif or Captain of the Guard with poor weapon skills so punishing "crime" won't result in undue maiming. (Moodable skill: Mining)<br />
*Doc: 5 points in Carpentry, 1 point in Diagnostician, Bone Doctor, Surgeon, Suturer, and Wound Dresser. A doctor that can make his own beds, splints, and crutches (and tables and cabinets, if you have an excess of wood). Make him Chief Medical Dwarf right away, but replace him as soon as a better Diagnostician comes along. Make him a Plant Gatherer and Wood Cutter as well (until immigrants with better skills arrive), to give him something to do when he has nothing to build and nobody to heal. (Moodable skill: Carpentry)<br />
*Rock Farmer: 5 points in Grower, 5 points in Gem Cutting. Farming is more difficult to set up than it used to be, but no less time consuming. Gem Cutting takes little time and provides the fortress with the highest-value, lowest-weight trade items you're likely to find early on. You can also make him a Plant Processor and/or Miller if you need the materials for emergency mood satisfaction and/or cooking, but these skills should be provided at higher levels by immigrants fairly quickly, and cloth isn't critical for an early fortress (hunt and butcher wildlife with your militia instead, and make bags/clothes out of leather). Give him the Mining labor at least, though, as all dwarves who aren't Wood Cutting or Hunting should be available as backup miners and emergency militia. (Moodable skill: Gem Cutting)<br />
*Embalmer: 5 points in Brewing, 5 points in Leatherworking. Makes leather bags and armor early in the game, alcohol later. Assign him the Tanner and Butcher labors as well, until immigrants with better skills arrive, and the Miner labor, for the reasons stated above. (Moodable skill: Leatherworker)<br />
*Iron Chef: 5 points in Cooking, 5 points in Weaponsmithing. Makes the steel when he isn't making a meal. Assign him the Furnace Operator and Wood Burner labors, until immigrants with better skills arrive, so he can make the raw materials of his craft, and the Miner labor on general principles. If you're unlucky with immigrants, or determined to make additional forges or metal armor right away, you can give him the Armorer and Blacksmith labors as well. (Moodable skill: Weaponsmith)<br />
*Architect: 5 points in Mason, 5 points in Building Designer. Unlocks all buildings from the start, and will build nice stone ones that improve dwarven moods. The sheer amount of construction needed to build a secure and functional initial fort quickly may make it a good idea to turn OFF all labors for the Architect except Mason and Building Designer, at least until everyone and everything is safely underground. If you ever do finish building everthing you need, give him back any labors you turned off, and add Engraver (train him by smoothing stone first) and Miner labors as well. (Moodable skill: Mason)<br />
*Mech Pilot: 5 points in Mechanic, 5 points in any skill you want. I used to think Ballistae were awesome, but sadly they only work well on paper, unless built (and crewed) in large numbers. If you still want to use them, putting his 5 points in Siege Engineer is better than Siege Operator, for high quality machines straight away. Build some extra catapults and sling rocks around for training when your dwarves have some free time, if you still want to use siege engines. Otherwise, you can give him a quick crafting skill, possibly one of the job skills the other dwarves would be training up from Dabbling (Armorer or Blacksmith would probably be the best). Don't attach a seriously time-consuming skill like Wood Burner or Furnace Operator, though, because this dwarf should mostly be making mechanisms for your cage traps. (Moodable skill: Mechanic)<br />
Crafting and Gem Setter skills should be available through immigrants, but the Stonecraft skill can be trained up easily and cheaply from nothing by any dwarf that spends much time idle, if you absolutely must have something quickly. Fishing and Hunting can likewise usually wait until immigrants arrive with these skills. Chasing wolves around with your militia can be frustrating, but eventually one of them will make the mistake of trying to stand and fight, and even simple clothes can deflect most animals' teeth, claws, and horns (just don't go after bears without metal armor!). <br />
<br />
Recommended embark items:<br />
*1+ copper picks (use any leftover embark points to buy up to 5 spares)<br />
*1 iron anvil, to guarantee you can make more picks quickly.<br />
*1 wooden training axe, or battle axe if the "training axes can chop down trees" exploit is ever fixed. This will keep you from being left without fuel for the forge if you run out of wood, but can be skipped if you're embarking to an area where there are no trees (or if you're going to DIY it).<br />
*1+ of each type of seed, mostly for the bags, as you will probably be surface farming with gathered plants until the caravans arrive anyhow. Note that quarry bush seeds are edible, and dwarves will often consume your whole initial stockpile before you can plant them.<br />
*35-40 units of meat/fish, one from each different animal or fish that is available to your culture for 2 embark points per unit. This will give you enough meat to keep your dwarves fed until the first caravan arrives, and the maximum number of free barrels as well. Meat is generally preferred by dwarves over organs that aren't prepared in a kitchen first (meaning the barrels will be empty and available for other uses faster). Note that some animals may not have meat available (vermin like cave spiders, for example), in which case organs are preferable to nothing at all. Note that dwarven nutritional needs seem to have increased since the 31.12 patch; the original recommendation of 25-30 food probably won't even last you through summer, and getting this minimum might not even last through autumn without farming or hunting some extra.<br />
*31 each of dwarven ale, dwarven beer, and dwarven rum. Dwarven wine will be produced in large quantities on site once subterranean farming is ready to grow Plump Helmets, and this should be enough alcohol to keep your dwarves happy until a caravan arrives with more if you need it. Dwarven alcohol needs have increased a bit too, it seems.<br />
*Anything else that you may need more of than the site can provide right away:<br />
**Wood, if the biomes are devoid of trees (glacier, mountain, desert, etc.).<br />
**Metal ore, if you have plenty of trees but may need more/better metal than you are likely to find immediately (savage/evil biomes).<br />
**Metal bars, if you need metal but trees are scarce.<br />
**Weapons and armor, if you are mad enough to take on a Terrifying biome.<br />
**Flux stone, if you want to make steel quickly but the embark site lacks chalk, limestone, or dolomite (marble and calcite are normally only found far too deep to be of much early use).<br />
**Dogs, if you want a decent "militia" fairly quickly. Build a kennel and have the Boss train them into War Dogs. One male and the rest females will produce more dogs as quickly as possible.<br />
**Plaster bags, for the hospital. You can usually find some plaster-making stones on site, but turning them into bags of plaster powder for setting bones is a difficult, time consuming, and fuel burning process, until you can build magma kilns. On the other hand, if you aren't expecting serious combat before the caravans arrive, you can usually buy more than you will ever use from them fairly cheap.<br />
**Plump Helmets, as an emergency food/alcohol supply if you anticipate problems making a subterranean farm. Buy in quantities ending in 1, for the maximum number of free barrels. They're quite a bit more expensive than seeds, or other foodstuffs, but their utility makes up for that.<br />
<br />
===Elfhater's "Start With Steel Without Paying (Much) For It" Strategy===<br />
<br />
This is a strategy for a component of a starting build. It shows you how to get a steel axe/pick for 75 points. The steel axe is a very good weapon, and the pick is useful itself.<br />
<br />
'''Before Embark'''<br />
*No picks or axes<br />
*2 iron ore (hematite, limonite, or magnetite)<br />
*2 flux stones (calcite, chalk, dolomite, limestone, or marble)<br />
*5 logs<br />
*Skills: Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Metalsmith and Weaponsmith<br />
<br />
'''After Embark'''<br />
*Deconstruct wagon (this gets you three wood)<br />
<br />
*Build a wood furnace with a flux stone<br />
**Make '''one''' ash<br />
**Make '''seven''' charcoal<br />
**Deconstruct the furnace<br />
<br />
*Build a smelter using the ash<br />
**Smelt both iron ores into iron bars<br />
**Smelt '''one''' iron bar into pig iron<br />
**Smelt iron bar and pig iron bar into steel<br />
**Deconstruct the smelter<br />
<br />
*Build a metalsmith's forge using the ash<br />
**Make '''one''' steel axe<br />
**Cut down (at least) one tree<br />
**Deconstruct forge<br />
<br />
*Build a wood furnace using the ash<br />
**Burn wood<br />
**Deconstruct wood furnace<br />
<br />
*Build a metalsmith's forge using the ash<br />
**Make '''one''' steel pick.<br />
<br />
*End with One Steel pick and one Steel Axe for less Embark points then a copper pick and copper axe.<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}<br />
[[Category:Guides]]</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Food&diff=127111v0.31:Food2010-09-05T05:03:32Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
'''Food''' is anything {{L|dwarves}} eat to ward off starvation, but if they are not able to attain sustenance then they will get hungry, have bad thoughts, and eventually die. Dwarves can withstand hunger for a while in order to continue working, but will gain bad thoughts from doing so. Common foods are {{L|butcher|meat}}, {{L|fishing|fish}}, {{L|farming|crops}}, and {{L|plant gathering|gathered shrubs}}. <br />
<br />
Dwarves require 2 units of food and 4 units of drink each season. <br />
<br />
Eating good food will make your dwarves happy, so a good {{L|cook}} is an excellent investment. Also, each dwarf has a {{L|Preferences|preference}} for certain foods. Both starting dwarves and immigrants only have preferences for "dwarven" food (basically underground crops and meat the dwarven caravan brings). They will however gain new favorites if you present them with human and elven products (above ground crops e.g.) If you want a colorful game or need any food you can get, fire away. If however you want to optimize happiness from food but still keep stock menues small and tidy, be cautious about what you trade with caravans. For example, presumably, expensive meat makes your dwarves happier than cheap mule meat, but any plants the elves bring are not more valuable than your own.<br />
<br />
==Sources==<br />
<br />
The possible sources of food are {{L|farming}}, {{L|plant gathering}}, {{L|fishing}}, {{L|trading}}, {{L|butcher's shop|butchering animals}}, {{L|ambusher|Hunting}}, and {{L|Milk|milking}}. Farming is by far the most reliable.<br />
<br />
When starving, dwarves will catch and consume {{l|vermin}} to survive, resulting in an unhappy thought.<br />
<br />
==Processes==<br />
<br />
Some food is inedible raw, and needs processing first. For example:<br />
* {{L|Fat}} must be rendered ({{L|kitchen}}) into {{L|tallow}} and then cooked ({{L|kitchen}})<br />
* Raw {{L|fish}} must be {{L|fish cleaner|cleaned}} ({{L|fishery}})<br />
* {{L|Sweet pod|Sweet pods}} must be either milled into {{L|dwarven sugar}} ({{L|Millstone|mill}}/{{L|quern}}), processed to barrels of {{L|dwarven syrup}} ({{L|farmer's workshop}}), or brewed into barrels of {{L|Alcohol|dwarven rum}} ({{L|Still|brewery}}) before they can finally be cooked ({{L|kitchen}})<br />
* {{L|Cave wheat}}, {{L|Whip vine}} and {{L|Longland grass}} must be milled into their respective flours and cooked.<br />
* Milk has to be cooked or turned into cheese.<br />
Unprocessed food and non-food {{L|crop|crops}} will be stored in a food stockpile and take up barrel space; the {{L|bookkeeper}} can tell you how much of each type of "food" you have in the {{L|stocks}} screen.<br />
<br />
{{L|organ|Organs}} are edible without cooking.{{version|0.31.08}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Food]]</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Food&diff=126916v0.31 Talk:Food2010-09-02T07:28:40Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* Changes */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Changes== <br />
Ok, I'm wondering what has changed about food in 31.01? I know that there are some relevant bugs, but is there anything new? [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 03:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Aside from the bugs, the main difference is that when you butcher an animal, you can now eat all of the organs instead of just the meat.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br />
::It seems to me that the main difference is that you cannot prepare a meal out of alcohol alone. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::boozecooking, also alc. alone, is still possible, but seems to be bugged, or produces much less food than it used to. Better stay clear or test carefully. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.121.225|92.202.121.225]] 22:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Is the the rate that dwarfs eat food changed? Like, will several hundred units of food last about as long as they usually do? --[[User:Sysice|Sysice]] 06:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:My impression is that cooking is much more time-consuming, but it doesn't seem dwarves eat more. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.121.225|92.202.121.225]] 22:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much does a dwarf consume? ==<br />
This should be in the wiki, telling how much per year a dwarf eats and drinks. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 07:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Food&diff=126915v0.31 Talk:Food2010-09-02T07:28:13Z<p>AngleWyrm: how much does a dwarf consume?</p>
<hr />
<div>==Changes== <br />
Ok, I'm wondering what has changed about food in 31.01? I know that there are some relevant bugs, but is there anything new? [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 03:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Aside from the bugs, the main difference is that when you butcher an animal, you can now eat all of the organs instead of just the meat.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br />
::It seems to me that the main difference is that you cannot prepare a meal out of alcohol alone. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::boozecooking, also alc. alone, is still possible, but seems to be bugged, or produces much less food than it used to. Better stay clear or test carefully. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.121.225|92.202.121.225]] 22:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Is the the rate that dwarfs eat food changed? Like, will several hundred units of food last about as long as they usually do? --[[User:Sysice|Sysice]] 06:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:My impression is that cooking is much more time-consuming, but it doesn't seem dwarves eat more. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.121.225|92.202.121.225]] 22:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-- How much does a dwarf consume? --<br />
This should be in the wiki, telling how much per year a dwarf eats and drinks. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 07:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Crop&diff=124917v0.31 Talk:Crop2010-08-12T02:04:11Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
<hr />
<div>I had the entries sorted by RAW order, for easier editing. As it so happens, it's also a rough order of importance, too. If someone wants to order it by any particular attribute, that's what the little icons at the top of the table are for. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 19:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Product Value ==<br />
<br />
Where did those product values come from? The material values of dwarven syrup and dwarven sugar are both 20, dwarven syrup is listed as 100. I realise that it probably has something to do with stack size, but that is not made clear. Also, is it verified for this version? This is why I was hesitant to add those values. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 19:35, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The product value given is the value of the products created from processing one plant. As you surmised, it's the stack size. A single plant will process to a stack of five syrups, hence the value of 100. This is consistent with how the wiki has presented it in previous versions, since it's more useful for comparisons that way. You're right that it does need a footnote, or something. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br />
::How about the other values? Has it been ''verified for this version'' the number that each process produces? For instance, doesn't processing thread produce more than one thread for each plant? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Seeds ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering which reactions give seeds and which don't. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to list here or not. Is cooking the only reaction that does not give seeds for all plants? Do both brewing and milling cave wheat give seeds?<br />
:Brewing has been verified to grant two seeds per plant. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:19, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are you sure it always gives two seeds? In 40d it gave 1-2 seeds when the plants were eaten/brewed/milled/processed. --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 08:04, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::More thorough testing will be required. I might do that, but not right now. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 04:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plant Value ==<br />
<br />
The value for plants is 2*StructuralMaterialValue for all plants I've seen. Has someone tested the values of those with only 1 value? I know which part of the raws ''could'' do this, but I want to see it verified that it ''does''. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I did not veryfiy the values, i just calculated the value by [MATERIAL_VALUE:x]*[VALUE:y]. In some cases there was so [VALUE:x] tag, in which cases i used 1. I don't know if these values are correct, so someone has to check them for correctness or just remove/change them, when it is wrong. --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 08:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::So... you might be wrong, and you don't add a {{verify}}? Pulling data from the raw files is good and all, but you have to actually know which parts do what, and we don't yet. I haven't had much luck finding one of these plants in-game yet, do you want to? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 04:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Changes of 0.31.2 ==<br />
<br />
EDIBLE_VERMIN and EDIBLE_COOKED added to the seeds of plump helmet, pig tail, cave wheat, sweet pod, quarry bush(also added EDIBLE_RAW), prickle berries, wild strawberries, longland grass, rat weed, fisher berries, rope reed, dimple cup, blade weed, hide root, sliver barb, sun berry, and whip vine. This leaves muck root, bloated tuber, kobold bulb, and valley herb - the un-farmable plants - without the tags, and quarry bush with a unique case of having seeds that are edible raw. How should we reflect this in the article? Should we leave it to the plant-specific articles? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 04:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
The quarry bush also has leaves that are edible raw now. Which makes the information allready there accurate. Which it wasn't when it was added by Quietust. Did you have fore-knowledge that Toady was going to change that? Or were you guessing? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 04:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== More care please ==<br />
Just dump the raws, or worse, copy old info, without even looking in-game? ''And'' not understanding the game mechanics. Lets stick with the values the game gives us first, and use ''then'' the raws to verify and explain, please. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 01:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Where to get sliver barbs ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I started in a haunted non-freezing biome, and there's no plants. Where do I get sliver barbs?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:46, 26 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:There are ''lots'' of biomes that can be "non-freezing", including '''deserts''' which can easily be entirely devoid of plant life. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:11, 26 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I tried an evil forest (haunted or sinister) and was only able to Gather wild strawberries and longland grass. Just can't seem to find sliver barb anywhere. Does anyone have experience gathering this crop? I'm wondering if it only grows in areas with dead trees or something..--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 16:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::In an evil non-freezing biome with all dead trees, there were no plants at all. I'm starting to wonder if Sliver Barbs are an urban legend. Would like to hear from anyone who's had success gathering or farming them.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:35, 28 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah, finally some success! I've found sliver barbs in terrifying savannas during two seperate embarks. There were many ogres.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:03, 30 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I should mention for anyone who wants black dye, that sliver barbs do not appear to grow in an area without Glumprongs (the purple trees). If you embark in an evil area and you see only green trees, sliver barbs will not be available.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 14:33, 5 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Growing Time ==<br />
<br />
How long does it take for a given crop to reach maturity? Or put another way, how many batches of a crop can be grown within one season or year? [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 02:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Grower&diff=124916v0.31 Talk:Grower2010-08-12T02:00:07Z<p>AngleWyrm: Needs formula/table for Grower skill</p>
<hr />
<div>=== Formula or table needed ===<br />
This page makes several claims that a high level Grower skill increases produced stack size. It even goes into a long drawn-out explanation of the difference between a single 5-stack and 5 1-stacks.<br />
<br />
What is missing is the actual amount of increase with each level of grower. Anyone know the formula and/or table? [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 02:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Article_Consolidation&diff=120211Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation2010-07-04T23:21:26Z<p>AngleWyrm: Update proposed table layout</p>
<hr />
<div>== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==<br />
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223<br />
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).<br />
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article. <br />
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)<br />
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::2 more things: <br />
<br />
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.<br />
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How about summary and individual pages? ==<br />
<br />
So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:<br />
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.<br />
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Current state ===<br />
<br />
It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist. <br />
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.<br />
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.<br />
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.<br />
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. Here is an example for consideration [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||<br />
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"<br />
| Granite || small clusters <br />
|- <br />
|Schist ||small clusters <br />
|- <br />
|Marble ||veins <br />
|} <br />
||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||<br />
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"<br />
|Metaphoric layers ||small clusters<br />
|-<br />
|Diorite ||small clusters<br />
|-<br />
|Gabbro ||small clusters<br />
|}<br />
||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||[[Ore]] ||15 ||<br />
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"<br />
|Metamorphic layers ||veins<br />
|-<br />
|Igneous Extrusive layers ||veins<br />
|-<br />
|Granite ||veins <br />
|-<br />
|Limestone ||veins<br />
|}<br />
||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Article_Consolidation&diff=119602Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation2010-06-26T03:36:32Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* Current state */</p>
<hr />
<div>== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==<br />
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223<br />
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).<br />
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article. <br />
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)<br />
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::2 more things: <br />
<br />
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.<br />
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How about summary and individual pages? ==<br />
<br />
So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:<br />
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.<br />
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Current state ===<br />
<br />
It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist. <br />
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.<br />
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.<br />
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.<br />
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. Here is an example for consideration [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||Granite(S), Schist(S), Marble(S)||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||Metaphoric layers(S), Diorite(S), Gabbro(S)||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||[[Ore]] ||15 ||Metamorphic layers(V), Igneous Extrusive layers(V), Granite(V), Limestone(V) ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Article_Consolidation&diff=119601Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation2010-06-26T03:36:06Z<p>AngleWyrm: Example table format</p>
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<div>== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==<br />
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223<br />
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).<br />
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article. <br />
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)<br />
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::2 more things: <br />
<br />
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.<br />
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== How about summary and individual pages? ==<br />
<br />
So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:<br />
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.<br />
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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=== Current state ===<br />
<br />
It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist. <br />
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.<br />
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.<br />
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.<br />
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. Here is an example for consideration [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||Granite(S), Schist(S), Marble(S)||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||Metaphoric layers(S), Diorite(S), Gabbro(S)||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||[[Ore]] ||15 ||Metamorphic layers(V), Igneous Extrusive layers(V), Granite(V), Limestone(V) ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=119600User talk:AngleWyrm2010-06-26T03:29:52Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of things that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
The number in the Value column is taken from looking at the item in-game.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Clear Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||75 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Cobaltite ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metamorphic layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Red Tourmaline ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||Metamorphic layers, Sedimentary layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Sphalerite ||Ore ||6 ||Metamorphic layers ||Veins ||Ore of zinc, make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Article_Consolidation&diff=119599Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation2010-06-26T03:27:35Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* Current state */</p>
<hr />
<div>== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==<br />
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223<br />
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).<br />
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article. <br />
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)<br />
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::2 more things: <br />
<br />
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.<br />
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How about summary and individual pages? ==<br />
<br />
So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:<br />
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.<br />
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Current state ===<br />
<br />
It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist. <br />
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.<br />
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.<br />
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.<br />
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Article_Consolidation&diff=119598Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation2010-06-26T03:27:18Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* How about summary and individual pages? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==<br />
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223<br />
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).<br />
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article. <br />
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)<br />
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::2 more things: <br />
<br />
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.<br />
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How about summary and individual pages? ==<br />
<br />
So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:<br />
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.<br />
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Current state ===<br />
<br />
It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist. <br />
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.<br />
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.<br />
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.<br />
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Legends&diff=114432v0.31:Legends2010-05-23T02:30:26Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
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<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Tattered}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:World_generation&diff=114166v0.31:World generation2010-05-22T07:37:23Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
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<div>{{AV}}{{Quality|Fine}}<br />
<br />
:''For information on advanced parameters, see {{L|Advanced world generation}}.''<br />
<br />
{{L|world_gen.txt|Default world_gen.txt}}<br />
<br />
{{L|Worldgen_samples|Specific elements to add to your world.}}<br />
<br />
{{L|Worldgen_examples|Complete entries to add to world_gen.txt}}<br />
<br />
Exceptions on World Gen <br />
<br />
(needs formatting, but this can help determine how to get the terrain types you want)<br />
<br />
=The World Generator is having trouble placing...=<br />
===Mountain peaks===<br />
rejection log example: Not enough peaks: 1<3<br />
Check your maximum elevation parameters.<br />
*Can the elevation 400 be placed enough times to provide space for your peaks?<br />
**Check your preset elevations for the elevation 400.<br />
**You must have at least as many of these highest elevation points as you are requiring peaks. <br />
<br />
Alternatively, reduce the number of peaks required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Mid-level elevations.===<br />
*Your worldgen parameters must allow elevations between 100 and 299 for this.<br />
**Check the parameters governing elevation frequencies.<br />
***Or simply reduce the number of mid-level elevation squares required.<br />
<br />
===Low elevations=== <br />
Your worldgen parameters must allow for enough elevations between 0 and 99 for this.<br />
<br />
===High elevations===<br />
Your worldgen parameters must allow for enough elevations between 300 and 400 for this.<br />
<br />
===Ocean squares along the edges===<br />
Your worldgen parameters must allow for enough elevations between 0 and 99 for this.<br />
*If that doesn't work, simply reduce the number of edge oceans required.<br />
<br />
===rainfall/drainage/savagery/volcanism in the manner specified by the parameters=== <br />
Check the parameters governing these features. Reduce the number of high, medium or low squares required. <br />
<br />
===Volcanos===<br />
Check your maximum volcanism value.<br />
*Volcanos can only form in areas with 100 volcanism.<br />
**As such, you must have at least as many areas with 100 volcanism as you do desired volcanos.<br />
If all else fails, reduce the number of volcanos required by the parameters.<br />
<br />
===Swamps and marshes===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, mid-to-high rainfall, low drainage, non-freezing areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of swamp squares and regions required by the parameters.<br />
<br />
===Deserts and badlands===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, very low rainfall, non-freezing areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of desert squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Forests===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, high rainfall, high drainage, non-freezing areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of forest squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Mountains=== <br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support high elevation areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of mountain squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Oceans===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support low elevation areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of ocean squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Glaciers===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, very high drainage, freezing areas. <br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of glacial squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Tundra regions===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, low-to-mid drainage, freezing areas. *If that doesn't work, reduce the number of tundra squares and regions required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Grasslands===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, low-to-mid rainfall, low-to-mid drainage, non-freezing areas.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of grassland squares and regions required by the parameters.<br />
<br />
===Hills===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets can support mid-elevation, low-to-mid rainfall, high drainage, non-freezing areas. <br />
<br />
===Rivers===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets allow as many mountain squares as you are requiring river start points. <br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of rivers required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Too many subregions===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets aren t so variable that biomes change frequently.<br />
*If that doesn't work, increase the number of subregions permitted by the parameters, up to the cap. <br />
<br />
===mountain caves===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets allow as many border mountain squares as you are requiring mountain caves.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of mountain caves required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===Low-lying caves===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets allow as many mid-elevation squares as you are requiring low-lying caves.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of non-mountain caves required by the parameters.<br />
<br />
===civilizations===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets offer enough low-to-mid savagery, evil/good appropriate, biome appropriate squares to establish sites. <br />
*High savagery (66+) blocks civilization placement -- make sure your parameters and presets offer at least small pockets of low-to-mid savagery areas. <br />
**If you have very few biome types and are placing good or evil regions, they'll often crowd out the civilizations as well.<br />
*If that doesn't work, reduce the number of civilizations required by the parameters. <br />
<br />
===The world generator couldn t find any civilization definitions===<br />
This problem cannot be resolved by continuing, so you should either abort or skip all rejects for a legends-only game.<br />
<br />
===The world generator is having trouble placing a controllable civilization===<br />
Make sure your parameters and presets have adequate squares of this kind.<br />
*Dwarves, for example, require non-evil, non-good, unsavage mountain squares that aren't surrounded by the ocean.<br />
*If that doesn't work, remove the requirement of a controllable civilization from the parameters, which will restrict you to adventurers (assuming an appropriate civilization is placed)<br />
<br />
{{World}}<br />
[[Category:World]]</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Advanced_world_generation&diff=11410040d Talk:Advanced world generation2010-05-22T06:11:06Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* Cookbook */</p>
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<div>Minimum Volcanism/Maximum Volcanism<br />
<br />
From what I have found out so far I can say Igneous extrusive layer are only found in areas with a volcanism higher than 90. Volcanoes are only placed on tiles with a volcanism of 100.<br />
<br />
Minimum Volcano Number<br />
<br />
Places volcanoes on tiles with a volcanism of 100, if there are not enough tiles the world is rejected. <br />
<br />
Does that imply, that if I set max volcanism to 99 and min volcano number to 50 it'll never accept the world?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: You can get volcanoes at lower values than that. It might have something to do with what you set the maximum value to. --[[User:Shoku|Shoku]] 23:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
yes, in the tests i did, setting max volcanism to 99 and min volcano to 1 caused infinite rejects. [[User:Killy|Killy]] 17:48, 5 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
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<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Volcanism seems to impact stone types. High minimum volcanism and you won't get sedimentary or metamorphic layers, just lots of igneous rock.<br />
<br />
I don't think magma pipes are exclusive to volcanism-100 tiles; i've had pipes come up through flux, albiet rarely.<br />
[[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br />
<br />
: That was a region tile with high volcanism with lower regions next to it bleeding into it.--[[User:Shoku|Shoku]] 23:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Cookbook===<br />
That thread is nice and all, but it seems more for works in progress. We should have a wiki page for the tried-and-true worldgen recipes, ones that have been tested thoroughly and are complete. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 07:17, 17 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Work in progress is required in order to get to the stage of thoroughly tested and complete. Giving a place for actual research in progress, and the failed ideas and trials, motivates people who would do the research. As a suggestion, initial tests for theories, and beginning works could start out on user talk pages. Then as the tables or page takes on a definite shape and content, it could be moved to it's own page or as a section of a current page. Especially for tables, completeness might not be a requirement, as other people can contribute. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 06:11, 22 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===X/Y Variance?===<br />
I've been experimenting with the X- and Y-variance values to try and get a better handle on them. Anybody already gone through and figured this out before I waste my time? :) Especially since it seems there's a certain procedural order I'll need to untangle (elevation modifies temperature, both modify rainfall, etc.) [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:20, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:I believe those are tied to how much the tiles are allowed to vary along the appropriate axes, with higher values producing a more random result. I haven't messed too much with worldgen settings, though. --[[User:Zeta|Zeta]] 13:02, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
: Variation scales with world size if that helps.--[[User:Shoku|Shoku]] 23:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== World Painter ==<br />
<br />
Perhaps the information on the [[World Painter]] should be moved to the new page, possibly with a link from this one. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 06:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mountain Peaks ==<br />
<br />
I believe mountain peaks are used as starting points for creating elevation during world generation. I think I remember reading this in a Gamustra interview with Toady. Can't confirm though so no edits made to the article.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Freezing Biomes ==<br />
<br />
This page could use some information about Glacial and Tundra tiles. <br />
<br />
The following all applies to medium maps. Someone else can find out how it works for others.<br />
<br />
Glaciers begin at -5 and every degree blow that extends it further up the map by 2 region tiles. <br />
During world gen it only chooses either north or south to start that trend from.<br />
<br />
And glaciers and tundra take place in the elevations between mountain and ocean and the difference between tundra and glacier is drainage.<br />
<br />
Any other details we need?--[[User:Shoku|Shoku]] 23:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Beasts dead for stoppage ==<br />
<br />
I've managed to stop the world-gen at year 2 (but no sooner) by putting the percentage megabeasts dead for stoppage at 0. I assume you cannot play in Year 1, then. Also, if you perhaps made modifications for many, many more megabeasts, or even made them more numerous, and then set the percentage at 100, you probably could reach the end date.<br />
:You can play in year 1 by hitting the spacebar (I think that's the key) to end gen right after starting it. I've done it before. Could make for an interesting story fort, but otherwise identical to normal DF. --[[Special:Contributions/173.73.166.152|173.73.166.152]] 06:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Increasing Megabeast Size===<br />
<br />
While not a worldgen token, increasing the size of megabeasts increases their durability and results in a longer world history. Setting giants, ettins, etc to size 30 is typically good enough to keep history generation running until at least year 650.</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Animal_dissector&diff=110306v0.31:Animal dissector2010-05-16T11:07:43Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
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<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Tattered}}<br />
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{{skills}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Stone_layers&diff=110296v0.31:Stone layers2010-05-16T07:25:41Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
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<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Tattered}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=108436User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-11T06:05:17Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* You Struck Whatchamacallite! */</p>
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<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
The number in the Value column is taken from looking at the item in-game.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Clear Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||75 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Cobaltite ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metamorphic layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Red Tourmaline ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||Metamorphic layers, Sedimentary layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Sphalerite ||Ore ||6 ||Metamorphic layers ||Veins ||Ore of zinc, make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Attack&diff=107885v0.31 Talk:Attack2010-05-09T23:18:20Z<p>AngleWyrm: answered Q:How to cancel kill order</p>
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<div>Created this page - until someone learns the full military interface, this is all(?) they need. It's all I needed. Might be better moved to a diff title, like "To kill a thief", but this is what I thought of first.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Not sure if I agree with the need for this article, If it does stay around, it needs to be cleaned up. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article. The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand {{L|military}}, {{L|squad}}s and {{L|scheduling}} just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's a mighty big if, and the whole reason for the existence of wikis is to provide that understanding. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that there is an audience for this article. It should probably be linked from the tutorial or quickstart guide. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Definitely useful, at least for now. To be honest I was close to giving up on the new military system as hopelessly broken and this page is part of what convinced me otherwise. [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:First, thank you for writing this detailed explanation, it's been a big help for me. Second, ''how do you cancel a kill order?'' I sent my main squad to go kill a thief, who then escaped off the edge of the map. The squad still has "Kill So-and-So" as their task. I don't want to destroy my squad, it's all set up with custom weapons, a schedule, and a lot of elbow grease to make that happen. I've found the answer to this question, and added a paragraph at the end on how to do it. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Don't make no sense==<br />
Why have the commander be someone you DON'T want fighting? Why the doctor? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:<sigh> Okay, fair enough. (Altho' this discussion really doesn't belong here, but...)<br /><br />
:This article is not about "permanent" military, but only about short-term, "right now" military, right? So, you want to use the "nearest" dwarfs, not wait for those who are trained - and might be across the map. So while you ''can'' designate a squad off your Militia Commander, you won't want to unless they happen to be right there by the target - unlikely. So you find the ''nearest'' dwarf (or so), make ''them'' a militia captain (for this effort only), and build off of them.<br />
<br />
:Why not the doctor? Simply because you don't want your doctor to get hurt or die! Who will patch them up? Who will patch up anyone else?! If you make the doctor the M Commander, and have a policy to never build a squad off of that designated noble, then they will never be sent off toward trouble. That, and since the Commander has no skills that matter, you'll never(?) have to replace that position because the old one ran off and got themself killed.<br />
<br />
:But if that still "don't make sense" and you want to send your doctor into battle, don't let ''me'' stop you!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Are you angry? I'm not calling you out, I'm just naturally curious about other people's play styles. Your explanation here clarified the points of my confusion; I think the article could benefit from parts of it. I'll edit them in. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This had me confused too. Given that this page is supposed to represent the simplest possible way to attack, why not just designate the guy who should attack as commander in the first place? Yes the other way works, by why do an extra step? [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Attack&diff=107881v0.31:Attack2010-05-09T23:16:05Z<p>AngleWyrm: added a paragraph on cancelling orders</p>
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<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Fine}}<br />
:''(See the {{L|Military}} article for a full discussion of how to manipulate squads and options with your military, like arming or armouring them, among many other important concepts. This article is for unarmed, immediate response only, the most basic concept.)''<br />
<br />
The military menus (plural) can be confusing at first. You should learn how they work. But if you haven't done that, and all you want/need to do is deal with a minor target ''right now'', without any complex preparation, no armour or weapons, perhaps a {{L|thief}}, perhaps a {{L|creature}}, this is the easiest way to do it (short of relying on {{L|Kennel#Trainable_Animals|attack animals}} or {{L|trap design|complex traps}})...<br />
<br />
:*1) '''Pause''' the game (by hitting {{k|spacebar}}). <br />
<br />
:*2) In the '''{{k|n}}obles menu''', assign a "militia commander". Select a dwarf you ''don't'' plan to use for this skirmish - maybe your Doctor, who you ''never'' want on the battlefield. When you do that, you'll notice a new position appears at the bottom, "militia captain".<br />
<br />
::*2.1) Assign one of the dwarves you ''do'' want to use for this skirmish to "militia captain". Another slot for "militia captain" will appear below that - ignore it, and {{k|Esc}} out of that menu.<br />
<br />
:*3) Open the '''{{k|m}}ilitary menu'''. Use the up/down arrows to highlight the "militia captain" and hit {{k|c}}reate squad. This squad, led by the dwarf you've already chosen, will be the ones you send to deal with the problem.<br />
<br />
::: When prompted, use the up/down arrows to highlight "'''no uniforms'''", and hit {{k|Enter}}. You should see the name of the squad and the captain you just assigned. <br />
<br />
::*3.1) Use the left/right/up/down arrows to highlight an "AVAILABLE" slot, and then choose the next dwarf you want in that squad. You can {{k|Esc}}ape to check the map and ID your dwarves and then come back to this {{k|m}}ilitary screen to finish filling in the squad.<br />
<br />
::*3.2) Once you have all the dwarves you want, hit {{k|u}} for "supplies". Use the {{k|-}}/{{k|+}} keys to select "'''Do not carry water'''", and the {{k|/}}/{{k|*}} keys to select "'''Do not carry food'''". (You do want fast response, and not a long-term patrol, right?) Hit {{k|Esc}} to return the map, or {{k|p}}ositions to add some more dwarves.<br />
<br />
:*4) Now open the '''{{k|s}}quads sub-window'''. <br />
<br />
::*4.1) Hit {{k|A}}ll (''capital'' "A") to select all the members of that squad.<br />
<br />
::*4.2) Hit {{k|k}} to attack ({{k|k}}ill!) a target. Now you have several ways to choose your target - or more than one target, depending on the method...<br />
<br />
:::* If you move the cursor over the target, you can hit {{k|Enter}}.<br />
:::* Hit {{k|l}}ist for a list of possible targets. The actual creatures/targets will flash on the main map with their identifying letter to aid you in differentiating.<br />
:::* If you have a number of targets, you can move the cursor and hit {{k|Enter}} to form the opposite corners of a (highly visible!) rectangle - all non-friendly creatures within that area will then be targeted.<br />
<br />
:::The squad should now be listed as assigned to "Kill _____", flashing in red at the top of the sub-window. Once you see that, hit {{k|Esc}}...<br />
<br />
:*5) ...And '''un-pause''' the game.<br />
<br />
:(When the deed is done, simply go into the {{k|m}}ilitary screen, select that squad, and {{k|d}}elete that squad. Since the dwarves have no equipment/weapons, they won't drop anything, and will simply find a new job and wander back to work.)<br />
<br />
If the target escapes from the map or otherwise becomes inaccessible, then the order to kill may be cancelled without deleting the squad. Go to {{K|s}} squad, {{K|a}} select exclusively, {{K|o}} cancel Order.<br />
<br />
Note that unarmed, untrained dwarves are not very impressive in their death-dealing abilities, not even against minor opponents - and one with a knife can prove to be quite dangerous. Sending four or more against a goblin/kobold thief will eventually kill the little bugger, but not before some injuries to the home team. <br />
<br />
For a truly safe response system, you need regular military - and to expand on this by reading and understanding the {{L|military}} and related articles.<br />
<br />
{{Military v0.31}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Military_F.A.Q.&diff=107880v0.31:Military F.A.Q.2010-05-09T23:11:32Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* I can't get my dwarves to STOP killing things! */</p>
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<div>This is a list of '''Frequently Asked Questions''' related to the '''{{l|military}}'''. You may also want to read '''{{l|squads}}''', '''{{l|scheduling}}''' and '''{{l|equipment}}'''.<br />
<br />
A note to keep in mind: As 0.31.03 is still far from being all cleaned up and tidy, many of these questions are for now answered with "this is a bug, sorry" or a quick workaround. We will have to make do until the next bugfix.<br />
<br />
===My dwarves won't do anything but stand around!===<br />
<br />
By default newly-created squads are assigned the 'Inactive' alert. You will need to create new alert levels or create new scheduling within alert levels (see {{l|Scheduling}}) to get them to do what you want. Note that 'Inactive' and 'Active/Training' are '''''not''''' the only two options available - they are simply the two default alerts and rather useless without creating more alerts and scheduling.<br />
<br />
===Alerts? Schedules? What am I looking at here?===<br />
<br />
A schedule is what a dwarf/squad will do when a particular alert is active; once alerts are made and scheduling is performed within these alerts, you can simply change a squad's alert based on the scenario and they will follow out highly specified and complicated programming. For example, if you make two alerts named 'Caravan Guard' for protecting incoming traders and 'Bloody Kobolds' for attacking thieves, we can change Squad A's scheduling in 'Caravan Guard' to {{l|Scheduling#Routes|patrol your trade route}} and change their scheduling in 'Bloody Kobolds' to {{l|Scheduling#Defend Burrows|defend a pre-defined burrows}} around your entrance. When a caravan shows up, you can change Squad A to be under the 'Caravan Guard' alert (either {{k|a}} in the military screen or {{k|t}} to cycle through when in the {{k|s}}quad screen with a squad selected) and they will begin running up and down your route as the traders make their way through. When you get the 'Protect the horde from thieving scum!' message, you can change their alert to 'Bloody Kobolds' and Squad A will charge off to defend the entrance.<br />
<br />
Different squads can be given different alerts at once, but these squads can also be given different scheduling within the ''same'' alert - for example, you could make Squad B's scheduling in the 'Caravan Guard' alert to defend a burrows around your trade depot, then assign both A and B to 'Caravan Guard' when the traders appear and have one squad walk them in and the other keep the depot clear.<br />
<br />
As schedules are broken up by month, you can make very complicated schedules in which dwarves train two months, take one off, then patrol your map for a season then take a shift defending the entrance, while having a second squad do something completely different, and change their scheduling instantly by applying a different alert. For ease, orders can be copied and pasted in the scheduling menu. Once you get the hang of the system it becomes extremely versatile. See {{l|Scheduling}} for more information.<br />
<br />
===I can't seem to apply orders to my schedule...===<br />
<br />
When you finish with the Give Orders menu and hit {{k|shift}}+{{k|tab}} to save your changes, you may notice that your changes have not been saved. This is because your order does not have a defined location. '''Station''' orders need a station to be assigned to, '''patrol route''' orders need a route to follow, and '''defend burrows''' orders need a burrows to defend. When giving or editing orders, you must select the specific area from a list on the left pane.<br />
<br />
Keep in mind that the left and right panes in the Give Orders menu can both be highlighted even if one is empty - if your pane doesn't seem to be highlighted, hit the left or right key to properly select it.<br />
<br />
===My dwarves won't wear the uniform I made!===<br />
<br />
The uniforms tab within the menu screen is not for assigning uniforms to your dwarves, it is for making uniform templates that can later be applied. Open the {{k|e}}equipment tab then the {{k|U}}niform sub-tab and you will be able to apply your uniform to either a single dwarf at once with {{k|enter}} or a squad at once with {{k|shift}}+{{k|enter}}. Your uniforms should appear in the rightmost pane.<br />
<br />
===My dwarves won't pick up equipment!===<br />
<br />
Your fort has become too large (20+ dwarves) and now requires an '''{{l|Arsenal_dwarf|Arsenal Dwarf}}'''. Open the {{k|n}}obles screen and assign one, and give him an office. He must now process all equipment changes at his desk before they go into effect; until then your dwarves will wear whatever was previously assigned.<br />
<br />
There is also a bug in which dwarves may simply just not pick up what you tell them to. If you have <20 dwarves, try forbidding what your soldiers currently have equipped as a workaround. If your soldier simply will not use the weapon you tell them to, try removing the weapon (in the military equipment screen), stationing the soldier near it, then adding it again to their equipment.<br />
<br />
===I don't have an Arsenal Dwarf position!===<br />
<br />
Your fort is not yet big enough to need one (<20 dwarves). For now your dwarves will simply equip themselves as soon as you make the changes.<br />
<br />
If your fort ''is'' big enough, you may be encountering what is believed to be a bug. The position may randomly become available later. Currently why this happens is unknown.<br />
<br />
If your Expedition Leader/Mayor is killed it can cause all unassigned nobles to vanish from the nobles screen. This could cause your arsenal dwarf position (among others) to be unavailable. This is believed to be a bug.<br />
<br />
===How do I make my dwarves kill things?===<br />
<br />
If your soldiers are stationed, defending a barracks, or patrolling a route, they are ''defending''. To make them go on the ''offense'', you need to open the {{k|s}}quads screen, select a squad using {{k|a}}/{{k|b}}/{{k|c}}/etc. as listed and hit {{k|k}} to 'Attack.' Then you pick your targets: either hit {{k|l}} to choose from a list of possible targets, {{k|r}} to select all targets within a rectangle, or simply move the cursor to what you want to attack and press {{k|enter}}. Your dwarves should now have the 'Kill _____' duty and charge after your target(s). To select multiple squads at once just hold {{k|shift}} while selecting, or hit {{k|p}} while selecting to select specific dwarves.<br />
<br />
You can also use '{{k|m}}ove' on the squads menu to move the squad to wherever you want.Just watch out for the next question below...<br />
<br />
===I can't get my dwarves to STOP killing things!===<br />
<br />
When a targetable creature is noticed by your military, be it the target of a kill order or simply close enough to be noticed by stationed/patrolling dwarves, your dwarves will engage it and will not give up or run away (or even drop the chase if it's slow) until either it or the target is dead. The only way to stop them is to cancel all their military orders, returning them to civilian status and causing them to run away instead.<br />
<br />
If a squad is trying to {{K|s}}->{{K|k}} kill a target, but that target has escaped the map, or is no longer reachable, then Cancel Orders for the squad. {{K|s}} squad {{K|a}} select a given squad exclusively, cancel {{K|o}} order.<br />
<br />
===My dwarves won't go off-duty! They're starving themselves!===<br />
<br />
Your '''order criteria''' is too high - order criteria is the number of dwarves in a squad required to follow out an order. By default a new order's criteria is set to 10 dwarves, or the entire squad; this means that you've told your dwarves that this order is of the absolute highest importance and that the entire squad needs to be on duty at all times. By changing this to two or three dwarves less than the number of dwarves in your squad, some of your dwarves will be able to relax and take some me-time while the others follow your orders out.<br />
<br />
===I keep activating my dwarves but they still have their civilian positions!===<br />
<br />
If a squad is off-duty it may be dressed in its civilian clothes and thus listed as civilians (ie. a swordsdwarf may revert to 'carpenter'). There also seems to be a discrepency between which orders are 'civilian' orders and which are 'military' orders; further investigation is necessary.<br />
<br />
However, this is not necessarily a Bad Thing, as they may still train their primary combat skills if you have assigned a barracks.<br />
<br />
===My squad leader won't stop 'organizing combat training'!===<br />
<br />
This is a minor bug - your leader is not actually organizing training but stuck on the command and will go about other things (with this command) if ordered. Freeing and then redesignating your barracks may help this.<br />
<br />
===I can't seem to get my marksdwarves to practice firing at all!===<br />
<br />
(currently not sure what the issue is here; some have achieved this but we are not exactly certain how)<br />
<br />
===My marksdwarves are sparring with their crossbows as a melee weapon!===<br />
<br />
You may have forgotten to assign them ammunition. In the military screen, open the ammunition tab ({{k|f}}) and then assign whatever squad your preferred ammunition.<br />
<br />
If this is not the case, there is also a bug that causes your marksdwarves to simply ignore the crossbow as a training weapon. We have yet to find a suitable workaround.<br />
<br />
It is also possible that marksdwarves in DF2010 will not fire crossbows without a quiver; in the old version marksdwarves would carry a stack of bolts in their hand, but this does not seem to be the case anymore. Create some [[quiver|quivers]] and try again.<br />
<br />
===My marksdwarves aren't using the type of ammunition I told them to!===<br />
<br />
This appears to be a bug. For now, older annoying micro-managing methods such as forbidding certain types will have to suffice.<br />
<br />
===My hunter/marksdwarf ran out of bolts and won't pick up more!===<br />
<br />
This seems to be a bug as well (yes, there are many). A workaround for this is to give your marksdwarf a '''{{l|Squads#Selecting_Squads.2FSoldiers|move order}}''' and then cancelling it; your dwarf should snap back to reality and grab more bolts. Annoying, but should be a temporary problem.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
''If you have further questions, please ask them on the discussion page here or on another relevant talk page. Frequently asked or standard questions will be added to the FAQ as necessary.''<br />
<br />
{{Military v0.31}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Military_F.A.Q.&diff=107879v0.31 Talk:Military F.A.Q.2010-05-09T23:04:06Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* I can't get my dwarves to STOP killing things! */</p>
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<div>== I can't get my dwarves to STOP killing things! ==<br />
This section is incomplete. A thief may escape the attack by leaving the map. If a squad was told to go {{K|k}}kill a target, then the squad that is in persuit continues to have "Kill So-and-So" as their order long after the target is gone. The question "How do I get my squad to STOP killing things" should also be answered for the case where the squad is trying to kill something that is no longer on the map. Which I don't know the answer to, which is why I looked it up on this page. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 23:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Help_talk:Contents&diff=107878Help talk:Contents2010-05-09T23:02:46Z<p>AngleWyrm: Created page with 'This would be a good place to list how to use the keyboard markup. ~~~~'</p>
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<div>This would be a good place to list how to use the keyboard markup. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 23:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Military_F.A.Q.&diff=107877v0.31 Talk:Military F.A.Q.2010-05-09T23:00:38Z<p>AngleWyrm: How to STOP killing things is a valid question.</p>
<hr />
<div>== I can't get my dwarves to STOP killing things! ==<br />
This section is incomplete. A thief may escape the attack by leaving the map. If a squad was told to go {{k}}ill a targer, then the squad that is in persuit continues to have "Kill So-and-So" as their order long after the target is gone. The question "How do I get my squad to STOP killing things" should also be answered for the case where the squad is trying to kill something that is no longer on the map. Which I don't know the answer to, which is why I looked it up on this page. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 23:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Attack&diff=107876v0.31 Talk:Attack2010-05-09T22:50:29Z<p>AngleWyrm: formatting</p>
<hr />
<div>Created this page - until someone learns the full military interface, this is all(?) they need. It's all I needed. Might be better moved to a diff title, like "To kill a thief", but this is what I thought of first.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Not sure if I agree with the need for this article, If it does stay around, it needs to be cleaned up. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article. The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand {{L|military}}, {{L|squad}}s and {{L|scheduling}} just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's a mighty big if, and the whole reason for the existence of wikis is to provide that understanding. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that there is an audience for this article. It should probably be linked from the tutorial or quickstart guide. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Definitely useful, at least for now. To be honest I was close to giving up on the new military system as hopelessly broken and this page is part of what convinced me otherwise. [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:First, thank you for writing this detailed explanation, it's been a big help for me. Second, ''how do you cancel a kill order?'' I sent my main squad to go kill a thief, who then escaped off the edge of the map. The squad still has "Kill So-and-So" as their task. I don't want to destroy my squad, it's all set up with custom weapons, a schedule, and a lot of elbow grease to make that happen. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Don't make no sense==<br />
Why have the commander be someone you DON'T want fighting? Why the doctor? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:<sigh> Okay, fair enough. (Altho' this discussion really doesn't belong here, but...)<br /><br />
:This article is not about "permanent" military, but only about short-term, "right now" military, right? So, you want to use the "nearest" dwarfs, not wait for those who are trained - and might be across the map. So while you ''can'' designate a squad off your Militia Commander, you won't want to unless they happen to be right there by the target - unlikely. So you find the ''nearest'' dwarf (or so), make ''them'' a militia captain (for this effort only), and build off of them.<br />
<br />
:Why not the doctor? Simply because you don't want your doctor to get hurt or die! Who will patch them up? Who will patch up anyone else?! If you make the doctor the M Commander, and have a policy to never build a squad off of that designated noble, then they will never be sent off toward trouble. That, and since the Commander has no skills that matter, you'll never(?) have to replace that position because the old one ran off and got themself killed.<br />
<br />
:But if that still "don't make sense" and you want to send your doctor into battle, don't let ''me'' stop you!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Are you angry? I'm not calling you out, I'm just naturally curious about other people's play styles. Your explanation here clarified the points of my confusion; I think the article could benefit from parts of it. I'll edit them in. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This had me confused too. Given that this page is supposed to represent the simplest possible way to attack, why not just designate the guy who should attack as commander in the first place? Yes the other way works, by why do an extra step? [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Attack&diff=107875v0.31 Talk:Attack2010-05-09T22:49:33Z<p>AngleWyrm: How do you cancel a kill order without destroying the squad?</p>
<hr />
<div>Created this page - until someone learns the full military interface, this is all(?) they need. It's all I needed. Might be better moved to a diff title, like "To kill a thief", but this is what I thought of first.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Not sure if I agree with the need for this article, If it does stay around, it needs to be cleaned up. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article. The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand {{L|military}}, {{L|squad}}s and {{L|scheduling}} just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's a mighty big if, and the whole reason for the existence of wikis is to provide that understanding. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that there is an audience for this article. It should probably be linked from the tutorial or quickstart guide. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Definitely useful, at least for now. To be honest I was close to giving up on the new military system as hopelessly broken and this page is part of what convinced me otherwise. [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::First, thank you for writing this detailed explanation, it's been a big help for me. Second, ''how do you cancel a kill order?'' I sent my main squad to go kill a thief, who then escaped off the edge of the map. The squad still has "Kill So-and-So" as their task. I don't want to destroy my squad, it's all set up with custom weapons, a schedule, and a lot of elbow grease to make that happen. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Don't make no sense==<br />
Why have the commander be someone you DON'T want fighting? Why the doctor? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:<sigh> Okay, fair enough. (Altho' this discussion really doesn't belong here, but...)<br /><br />
:This article is not about "permanent" military, but only about short-term, "right now" military, right? So, you want to use the "nearest" dwarfs, not wait for those who are trained - and might be across the map. So while you ''can'' designate a squad off your Militia Commander, you won't want to unless they happen to be right there by the target - unlikely. So you find the ''nearest'' dwarf (or so), make ''them'' a militia captain (for this effort only), and build off of them.<br />
<br />
:Why not the doctor? Simply because you don't want your doctor to get hurt or die! Who will patch them up? Who will patch up anyone else?! If you make the doctor the M Commander, and have a policy to never build a squad off of that designated noble, then they will never be sent off toward trouble. That, and since the Commander has no skills that matter, you'll never(?) have to replace that position because the old one ran off and got themself killed.<br />
<br />
:But if that still "don't make sense" and you want to send your doctor into battle, don't let ''me'' stop you!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Are you angry? I'm not calling you out, I'm just naturally curious about other people's play styles. Your explanation here clarified the points of my confusion; I think the article could benefit from parts of it. I'll edit them in. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This had me confused too. Given that this page is supposed to represent the simplest possible way to attack, why not just designate the guy who should attack as commander in the first place? Yes the other way works, by why do an extra step? [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Road&diff=107801v0.31:Road2010-05-09T07:11:15Z<p>AngleWyrm: see http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56888.0 for justification.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
'''Roads''' are a construction which paves over large sections of flat terrain. They are most commonly used to give {{L|caravan|caravans}} a reliable path to your fortress from the map's edge. A dwarf with the {{l|Architect}} labor must haul materials (if any) to the site and design the structure before it can be finished by any available dwarf.<br />
<br />
'''Dirt roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|O}}) can be constructed for free on any soil, removing shrubs and trees and preventing new ones from growing. However, they wear away over time, and have to be reconstructed periodically. Depending on the size of the road, this can be a hassle.<br />
<br />
'''Paved roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|o}}) can be constructed with any building material, including {{l|stone}}, {{l|block}}s, {{l|wood}} and metal {{l|bars}}. These roads are permanent, and use less material than paving the same space with constructed {{l|floor}}s. To avoid the hassle of long-distance hauling, it is advisable to place a {{l|stockpile}} near the desired site for your Architect to get materials from.<br />
<br />
== Paving at an Angle ==<br />
[[Image:roadangle.jpg|thumb|right|Sleight Angles]]It is possible and fairly simple to pave at nearly any angle. In the picture to the right, the road begins 3 squares below the river, and ends 5 squares below the river. Notice also that the road is not exactly stepped with the river, which helps to reduce the blocky look. To get angles that are not horizontal/vertical, the trick is to find the stepping pattern that will get you there.<br />
<br />
Let's say we want the road to travel 50 east and 30 down. The ratio is 50/30 = 5/3. For every 5 squares over, go 3 squares down. To make a stepping pattern, spread the smaller number evenly across the bigger number. In the example<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
Repeating the pattern results in a pair of [1down,1over] instructions next to each other every five steps, which is part of the pattern that gets a road to go 50 over and 30 down.<br />
<br />
{{buildings}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107490User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T09:27:35Z<p>AngleWyrm: clear zircon</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Clear Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||75 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Cobaltite ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metamorphic layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Red Tourmaline ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||Metamorphic layers, Sedimentary layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Sphalerite ||Ore ||6 ||Metamorphic layers ||Veins ||Ore of zinc, make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107489User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T09:23:08Z<p>AngleWyrm: red tourmaline</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Cobaltite ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metamorphic layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Red Tourmaline ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||Metamorphic layers, Sedimentary layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Sphalerite ||Ore ||6 ||Metamorphic layers ||Veins ||Ore of zinc, make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107487User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T08:13:28Z<p>AngleWyrm: sphalerite</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Cobaltite ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Sphalerite ||Ore ||6 ||Metamorphic layers ||Veins ||Ore of zinc, make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107486User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T08:05:41Z<p>AngleWyrm: note for cobaltite</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Cobaltite]] ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||Despite it's appearance, cobaltite ''cannot'' be smelted into cobalt.<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107485User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T08:03:53Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* You Struck Whatchamacallite! */</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Cobaltite]] ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107484User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T08:03:08Z<p>AngleWyrm: Milk quartz, purple spinel, cobaltite</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Cobaltite]] ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric, Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Milk Quartz ||Ornamental gem || ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Purple Spinel ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107474User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T06:18:20Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* You Struck Whatchamacallite! */</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107473User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T06:17:53Z<p>AngleWyrm: Black Zircon</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Black Zircon ||Semi-precious gem ||60 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107471User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T06:00:19Z<p>AngleWyrm: fire opal</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Fire Opal ||Semi-precious gem ||45 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107469User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T05:27:20Z<p>AngleWyrm: native gold</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Native Gold ||Ore ||30 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Veins||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107467User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T05:17:52Z<p>AngleWyrm: Pyrolusite</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Pyrolusite ||Stone ||3 ||Igneous Intrusive, Igneous Extrusive ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Nickel_silver&diff=10746640d Talk:Nickel silver2010-05-08T04:46:00Z<p>AngleWyrm: How do I make nickel silver?</p>
<hr />
<div>both nickel and nickel silver appear to be magma proof in 39c<br />
their melting points are listed nearly as high as steel<br />
(note that the earths core is supposedly solid nickel, surrounded by moltent magma-go figure)--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 18:14, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
note that currently, nickel-silver uses the same data as nickel in the raws--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 18:17, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
In real life, nickel silver's melting point is very near the in-game magma temp. 23:01, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Making Nickel Silver ==<br />
The Mayor demanded a Nickel Silver table in his study. It requires two bars of nickel silver to make the table. I have 10 bars nickel, 1 bar copper, and 1 bar zinc, and 1 bar of nickel silver. But when I go to the smelter, it does not give an option to smelt Nickel Silver.<br />
<br />
Could somebody please explain exactly how to make the game combine 2xnickel,1xcopper,1xzinc and turn it into 1 bar nickel silver?</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Nickel_silver&diff=107465v0.31:Nickel silver2010-05-08T04:40:28Z<p>AngleWyrm: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Alloy3<br />
|name=Nickel silver<br />
|color=7:7:1<br />
|color1=7:0:0 <!-- base metal 1 fg color --><br />
|color2=6:0:0 <!-- base metal 2 fg color --><br />
|color3=7:0:0 <!-- base metal 3 fg color --><br />
|uses=<br />
* {{L|Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting}}<br />
|recipe=<br />
* 2 {{L|nickel}} {{L|bar}}<br />
* 1 {{L|copper}} {{L|bar}}<br />
* 1 {{L|zinc}} {{L|bar}}<br />
|properties=<br />
* {{L|Material value}} 3<br />
}}{{av}}{{Quality|Fine}}<br />
<br />
'''Nickel silver''' is a {{l|metal}} produced from a mixture of {{l|nickel}}, {{l|zinc}} and {{l|copper}}. Because the components of nickel silver can be forged into (much more valuable) {{l|brass}}, <strike>instead, there is no real reason to create nickel silver</strike>, unless the need arises for {{l|magma-safe}} {{l|furniture}}, with little nickel available. Or the Mayor demands a Nickel Silver table for his study.<br />
<br />
Nickel silver is also {{l|magma-safe}}.{{verify}} <br />
<br />
{{gamedata}}<br />
{{Category|Metals}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107460User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-08T03:43:27Z<p>AngleWyrm: Mica</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Mica ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Granite ||Large clusters ||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Road&diff=107434v0.31:Road2010-05-08T01:59:38Z<p>AngleWyrm: fixed typo</p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
'''Roads''' are a construction which paves over large sections of flat terrain. They are most commonly used to give {{L|caravan|caravans}} a reliable path to your fortress from the map's edge. A dwarf with the {{l|Architect}} labor must haul materials (if any) to the site and design the structure before it can be finished by any available dwarf.<br />
<br />
'''Dirt roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|O}}) can be constructed for free on any soil, removing shrubs and trees and preventing new ones from growing. However, they wear away over time, and have to be reconstructed periodically. Depending on the size of the road, this can be a hassle.<br />
<br />
'''Paved roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|o}}) can be constructed with any building material, including {{l|stone}}, {{l|block}}s, {{l|wood}} and metal {{l|bars}}. These roads are permanent, and use less material than paving the same space with constructed {{l|floor}}s. To avoid the hassle of long-distance hauling, it is advisable to place a {{l|stockpile}} near the desired site for your Architect to get materials from.<br />
<br />
== Paving at an Angle ==<br />
[[Image:roadangle.jpg|thumb|right|Sleight Angles]]It is possible and fairly simple to pave at nearly any angle. In the picture to the right, the road begins 3 squares below the river, and ends 5 squares below the river. Notice also that the road is not exactly stepped with the river, which helps to reduce the blocky look. To get angles that are not horizontal/vertical, the trick is to find the stepping pattern that will get you there.<br />
<br />
Let's say we want the road to travel 50 east and 30 down. The ratio is 50/30 = 5/3. For every 5 squares over, go 3 squares down. To make a stepping pattern, spread the smaller number evenly across the bigger number. In the example<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
Repeating the pattern results in a pair of [1down,1over] instructions next to each other every five steps, which is part of the pattern that gets a road to go 50 over and 30 down.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{buildings}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Road&diff=107433v0.31:Road2010-05-08T01:58:28Z<p>AngleWyrm: fixed picture location</p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
'''Roads''' are a construction which paves over large sections of flat terrain. They are most commonly used to give {{L|caravan|caravans}} a reliable path to your fortress from the map's edge. A dwarf with the {{l|Architect}} labor must haul materials (if any) to the site and design the structure before it can be finished by any available dwarf.<br />
<br />
'''Dirt roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|O}}) can be constructed for free on any soil, removing shrubs and trees and preventing new ones from growing. However, they wear away over time, and have to be reconstructed periodically. Depending on the size of the road, this can be a hassle.<br />
<br />
'''Paved roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|o}}) can be constructed with any building material, including {{l|stone}}, {{l|block}}s, {{l|wood}} and metal {{l|bars}}. These roads are permanent, and use less material than paving the same space with constructed {{l|floor}}s. To avoid the hassle of long-distance hauling, it is advisable to place a {{l|stockpile}} near the desired site for your Architect to get materials from.<br />
<br />
== Paving at an Angle ==<br />
[[Image:roadangle.jpg|thumb|right|Sleight Angles]]It is possible and fairly simple to pave at nearly any angle. In the picture to the right, the road begins 4 squares below the river, and ends 5 squares below the river. Notice also that the road is not exactly stepped with the river, which helps to reduce the blocky look. To get angles that are not horizontal/vertical, the trick is to find the stepping pattern that will get you there.<br />
<br />
Let's say we want the road to travel 50 east and 30 down. The ratio is 50/30 = 5/3. For every 5 squares over, go 3 squares down. To make a stepping pattern, spread the smaller number evenly across the bigger number. In the example<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
Repeating the pattern results in a pair of [1down,1over] instructions next to each other every five steps, which is part of the pattern that gets a road to go 50 over and 30 down.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{buildings}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Road&diff=107432v0.31:Road2010-05-08T01:57:39Z<p>AngleWyrm: Added a section on how to pave elegantly at an angle</p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Quality|Exceptional}}<br />
<br />
'''Roads''' are a construction which paves over large sections of flat terrain. They are most commonly used to give {{L|caravan|caravans}} a reliable path to your fortress from the map's edge. A dwarf with the {{l|Architect}} labor must haul materials (if any) to the site and design the structure before it can be finished by any available dwarf.<br />
<br />
'''Dirt roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|O}}) can be constructed for free on any soil, removing shrubs and trees and preventing new ones from growing. However, they wear away over time, and have to be reconstructed periodically. Depending on the size of the road, this can be a hassle.<br />
<br />
'''Paved roads''' ({{k|b}} - {{k|o}}) can be constructed with any building material, including {{l|stone}}, {{l|block}}s, {{l|wood}} and metal {{l|bars}}. These roads are permanent, and use less material than paving the same space with constructed {{l|floor}}s. To avoid the hassle of long-distance hauling, it is advisable to place a {{l|stockpile}} near the desired site for your Architect to get materials from.<br />
<br />
== Paving at an Angle ==<br />
It is possible and fairly simple to pave at nearly any angle. In the picture to the right, the road begins 4 squares below the river, and ends 5 squares below the river. Notice also that the road is not exactly stepped with the river, which helps to reduce the blocky look. To get angles that are not horizontal/vertical, the trick is to find the stepping pattern that will get you there.<br />
<br />
Let's say we want the road to travel 50 east and 30 down. The ratio is 50/30 = 5/3. For every 5 squares over, go 3 squares down. To make a stepping pattern, spread the smaller number evenly across the bigger number. In the example<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
* 1 over<br />
* 1 down, 1 over<br />
Repeating the pattern results in a pair of [1down,1over] instructions next to each other every five steps, which is part of the pattern that gets a road to go 50 over and 30 down.<br />
[[Image:roadangle.jpg|thumb|Sleight Angles]]<br />
<br />
{{buildings}}</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:Roadangle.jpg&diff=107430File:Roadangle.jpg2010-05-08T01:43:25Z<p>AngleWyrm: The road and the river are at very sleightly different angles, with the road starting 4 squares below the river, and ending 6 squares below the river.</p>
<hr />
<div>The road and the river are at very sleightly different angles, with the road starting 4 squares below the river, and ending 6 squares below the river.</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107405User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-07T23:33:18Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* You Struck Whatchamacallite! */</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107403User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-07T23:32:49Z<p>AngleWyrm: Tetrahedrite</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Tetrahedrite]] ||Ore ||9 ||All ||Veins ||Ore of silver (20%), Ore of copper, Make trifle pewter bars(use ore), make fine pewter bars (use ore), make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore), make bronze bars (use ore), make brass bars (use ore)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107402User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-07T23:26:46Z<p>AngleWyrm: /* You Struck Whatchamacallite! */</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well. The advantage to the user of not linking stubs is that the user can immediately see if there's additional information on a given item.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrmhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AngleWyrm&diff=107400User talk:AngleWyrm2010-05-07T23:25:23Z<p>AngleWyrm: rearranged columns</p>
<hr />
<div>== You Struck Whatchamacallite! ==<br />
This table gives an alphabetical list of anything that can be struck while mining, along with the type of thing it is. If there are pages on the wiki that aren't stubs, then I'll change the name to a link as well.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!Size !!class="unsortable"|Notes<br />
|-<br />
|Alexanderite ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Almondine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Metaphoric layers, Diorite, Gabbro ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amber Opal ||Ornamental gem ||10 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Amethyst ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||All ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aquamarine ||Semi-precious gem ||20 ||Granite, Schist, Marble ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Aventurine ||Ornamental gem ||3 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Banded Agate ||Ornamental gem ||2 ||Sedimentary layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|[[Galena]] ||Ore ||15 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Extrusive layers, Granite, Limestone ||Veins ||Ore of silver(50), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)<br />
|-<br />
|Hornblende ||Stone ||3 ||Metaphoric layers, Igneous Intrusive layers, Igneous Extrusive layers ||Small clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Microcline ||Stone ||3 ||All ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Orthoclase ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Igneous Intrusive layers ||Large clusters||<br />
|-<br />
|Rutile ||Stone ||3 ||Metamorphic layers, Granite ||Small clusters||<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== On prepared meals ==<br />
A word, if I may. You have been editing the cook page with meaningless recipes, and I am asking you to stop. I cannot, of course, expect you to comply without providing you an explanation as to why you should. To that end, take note. I say "meaningless" recipes, because the dishes prepared in DF comply with very simple laws. Easy meals take two ingredients, and are called biscuits. The type of biscuit, or rather the name, is determined '''not by any specific "recipe'''", but simply by choosing one of the ingredients (I cannot remember if it is the first or the last). Fine and Lavish take three and four, respectively, and are named in the same way.<br />
<br />
In short, the name of a dish is determined '''only''' by the number of ingredients and the name of '''one''' of those ingredients. We do not need a table.<br />
<br />
And let me also say, since I know the written word can feel harsh, that I appreciate your initiative and enthusiasm in editing the wiki wherever you feel it needs improvement, and I hope I haven't offended you with this request. Feel free to respond here, or on my my own talk page, should you feel a response necessary. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 12:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"<br />
!Recipe<br />
!Type<br />
!Ingredients<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits <br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|2x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|style="background:#fefe88"|1x Turtle, 1x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Plump Helmet<br />
|Stew<br />
|3x Plump Helmet<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Dwarven Wine<br />
|Roast <br />
|1x Strawberry, 1x Plump Helmet, 2x Dwarven Wine<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Plump Helmet, 1x Strawberry<br />
|-<br />
|Bloated Tuber<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Swamp Whiskey, 1x Bloated Tuber<br />
|-<br />
|Prickle Berry<br />
|Biscuits<br />
|1x Rat Weed, 1x Prickle Berry<br />
|-<br />
|Wild Strawberry<br />
|Stew<br />
|1x donkey heart, 1x donkey brain, 1x strawberry<br />
|}<br />
:-Research complete. [[User:AngleWyrm|-AngleWyrm]] 20:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Well done. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)</div>AngleWyrm