https://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Peristarkawan&feedformat=atomDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T09:51:05ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=%25s&diff=17821%s2009-08-20T19:03:01Z<p>Peristarkawan: Undo revision 41283106 by Frandude (Talk)</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Main Page]]<br />
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<!-- Don't delete this page! It has a purpose -- see the discussion page. --></div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Goblin&diff=2588440d Talk:Goblin2007-12-13T02:05:35Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Snatchers / pedophiles */</p>
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<div>==== Thieves & cage traps ====<br />
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion<br />
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:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Uh, surely this isn't a real tag? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:15, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::It's used on gnomes, so that they can drink your booze if they find it. Strangely, it's also used on bears. Mindsnap, try <nowiki>[CURIOUSBEAST]</nowiki>. It's not anywhere in the default raws, but it's in the program text so it may be recognised. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Snatchers / pedophiles ==<br />
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Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::I'm very confident that if it continue, it will result in the ban of [[User:Billdauterive|Billdauterive]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:I support the word "snatcher" over "pedophile", for three reasons. First, it's more likely to be immediately understood by all wiki readers. Second, we're not talking same-species kiddy snatchers here - these are goblins, and goblins enslave and/or eat dwarf children. Third, why suggest nastiness and smut (as though dwarven kids ''a la carte'' wasn't horrid enough!) in a wiki without firm grounds? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 16:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::I wasn't suggesting removing the word "snatcher" at all. You've got to agree that it seems a bit peculiar that the snatchers ''only'' target children. Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile goblins are sick? Seems like a double standard to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Nothing strange at all about targetting only children. They're easier to catch, easier for goblins (who are no great size themselves) to carry, can't resist as well, are much more tender when cooked, and can be permanently enslaved more easily. There's just flat-out no reason to bother with any mention of pedophilia. --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]<br />
:::''Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile <s>goblins</s> are sick?'': Because it's the truth. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::Meh. As long as it stays fantasy I don't have a problem with them. Much. I don't subscribe to the notion of thoughtcrime. It's the pederasts, who act on the urge, that are the criminals.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::For the record, it's not just boys that get molested, girls do too. --Gotthard 17:52, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::Well, if I keep with the current "for the record" trend, I have to say that I would have no problem with having goblin pedophiles in game. It's a simulation afterall. Thing is, the current discussion is related to the article page, which is used in real life by humans and not dwarves. There is also no proof at all that goblin snatchers are pedophile, so not only it is a false entry but, as I said, since it's read by real life humans then the comment can also be considered offensive. Which is my case, I do find it offensive and there's no good reason to justify it. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::<br/>Certainly. I know that. Pederasty is the closest word we have, though. Statutory rape, while applicable, is a broader term. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::The only reason I made the distinction is that girls are far more likely to suffer long term damage from sexual abuse. Pederasty refers only to males. Anyway, [[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] I don't think the term should be in the article unless for some reason it is in the game. My 'for the record' comment was more off topic on the definition of the word than an attack. [[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] and I seem to be on the same page anyway. --Gotthard 19:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::A through search of the games strings turns up no occurances of '''pedo''', '''pede''', or '''rape'''. '''Sex''' occurs only in the word '''''sex'''tuplets'', and in the programming term ''RegisterClas'''sEx'''''. For what that's worth. I will add my personal opinion that I also think it doesn't belong in the article. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Besides, murderous carp aren't real to life the way pedophilia is. A large zombie fish attacking a mythological creature is a bit more abstract than the a pedophile (traditionally viewed as human) molesting a small child. Frankly, I like the lack of swearing and general offensiveness of the wiki, it's a nice change compared to most of the internet. Why spoil that for the ones that like it, for information that is unclear and doesn't help understanding the article? --Gotthard 17:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:A thought: assume, arguendo, that the children are stolen for such a purpose. This implies not only rape and statutory rape, but also sex outside one's species. (Not quite bestiality, but similar. We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.) And since there are many snatchers, this must be sanctioned by goblin society. How warped they must be! Comments? &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::''We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.'' Isn't that more or less what the word yiffing means? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:19, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Point. Though I think it hasn't entered the mainstream. Another one: in the ''Ringworld'' series, there's the concept of 'rishathra', ceremonial inter-species (though all descended from homo erectus) sex for the purpose of sealing trade agreements and alliances. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:53, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
'''I find it surprising that such a large debate has resulted [[User_talk:Billdauterive|from the actions of an obvious vandal.]]''' --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 20:04, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Yeah, that comment's not scoring him any points. Although at least he appears to have stopped editing the page. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 21:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Goblin&diff=2587940d Talk:Goblin2007-12-13T00:19:58Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Snatchers / pedophiles */</p>
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<div>==== Thieves & cage traps ====<br />
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion<br />
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:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Uh, surely this isn't a real tag? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:15, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::It's used on gnomes, so that they can drink your booze if they find it. Strangely, it's also used on bears. Mindsnap, try <nowiki>[CURIOUSBEAST]</nowiki>. It's not anywhere in the default raws, but it's in the program text so it may be recognised. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Snatchers / pedophiles ==<br />
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Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::I'm very confident that if it continue, it will result in the ban of [[User:Billdauterive|Billdauterive]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:I support the word "snatcher" over "pedophile", for three reasons. First, it's more likely to be immediately understood by all wiki readers. Second, we're not talking same-species kiddy snatchers here - these are goblins, and goblins enslave and/or eat dwarf children. Third, why suggest nastiness and smut (as though dwarven kids ''a la carte'' wasn't horrid enough!) in a wiki without firm grounds? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 16:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::I wasn't suggesting removing the word "snatcher" at all. You've got to agree that it seems a bit peculiar that the snatchers ''only'' target children. Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile goblins are sick? Seems like a double standard to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Nothing strange at all about targetting only children. They're easier to catch, easier for goblins (who are no great size themselves) to carry, can't resist as well, are much more tender when cooked, and can be permanently enslaved more easily. There's just flat-out no reason to bother with any mention of pedophilia. --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]<br />
:::''Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile <s>goblins</s> are sick?'': Because it's the truth. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::Meh. As long as it stays fantasy I don't have a problem with them. Much. I don't subscribe to the notion of thoughtcrime. It's the pederasts, who act on the urge, that are the criminals.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::For the record, it's not just boys that get molested, girls do too. --Gotthard 17:52, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::Well, if I keep with the current "for the record" trend, I have to say that I would have no problem with having goblin pedophiles in game. It's a simulation afterall. Thing is, the current discussion is related to the article page, which is used in real life by humans and not dwarves. There is also no proof at all that goblin snatchers are pedophile, so not only it is a false entry but, as I said, since it's read by real life humans then the comment can also be considered offensive. Which is my case, I do find it offensive and there's no good reason to justify it. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::<br/>Certainly. I know that. Pederasty is the closest word we have, though. Statutory rape, while applicable, is a broader term. &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::The only reason I made the distinction is that girls are far more likely to suffer long term damage from sexual abuse. Pederasty refers only to males. Anyway, [[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] I don't think the term should be in the article unless for some reason it is in the game. My 'for the record' comment was more off topic on the definition of the word than an attack. [[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] and I seem to be on the same page anyway. --Gotthard 19:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Besides, murderous carp aren't real to life the way pedophilia is. A large zombie fish attacking a mythological creature is a bit more abstract than the a pedophile (traditionally viewed as human) molesting a small child. Frankly, I like the lack of swearing and general offensiveness of the wiki, it's a nice change compared to most of the internet. Why spoil that for the ones that like it, for information that is unclear and doesn't help understanding the article? --Gotthard 17:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:A thought: assume, arguendo, that the children are stolen for such a purpose. This implies not only rape and statutory rape, but also sex outside one's species. (Not quite bestiality, but similar. We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.) And since there are many snatchers, this must be sanctioned by goblin society. How warped they must be! Comments? &mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::''We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.'' Isn't that more or less what the word yiffing means? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:19, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Eagle_of_Fire&diff=23846User talk:Eagle of Fire2007-12-12T23:48:34Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Societal standards */</p>
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<div>== I know you! ==<br />
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<nowiki>:)</nowiki><br />
--[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 12:13, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:What a coincidence! I do, too! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Huzzah! ASCII FOREVA!! --[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 08:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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==To whomever it may concern...==<br />
What the hell is the "rule P" I keep reading about? O_o --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:59, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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: It's a bunch of [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|stupid rules people have come up with]]. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 23:48, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Hummm... I think your description is pretty accurate. If they want to create rules, I'd be happy with that... But to hide them behind some kind of game... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
==Obsidian Short Sword==<br />
Is it me or I noticed my dwarf taking up a log of wood to make an obsidian short sword? I wanted to check on the wiki to be sure, but there seem to be no particular page for the obsidian short sword that I could see with a quick search. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Your obsidian sword needs a hilt. That's why you need the wood. [[User:Boo radley|Boo radley]] 13:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think obsidian short swords are really supposed to resemble a dwarf-sized [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl macuahuitl], hence the wood. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:47, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Would make sense, thanks for the link. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Newbie nonsense ==<br />
Thanks for that slap in the face there, chief. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 12:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:If you don't even know why it was put there, I should probably go place it back again. It was probably because you made a bunch of edits one after the other on the same page. Use the preview button and it won't happen again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::I'm well aware as to why it was put there, but it appears more as an insult than advice if you ask me. I did use the preview button, but I didn't see my mistakes until after published. Everyone makes simple mistakes. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 19:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::The reason why the <nowiki>{{newbie}}</nowiki> tag was created was to be able to send some quick pointers to new users. Your user page was pretty bland and I can't really keep track of the new users since there is so many now. I simply used the tag in a quick edit. I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is said almost everyday, using a generic tag is so less bothersome and that much quicker.<br />
:::It should not be taken as an insult but rather as a friendly advice. It's really not that big of a deal. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:08, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::I'd like to point out that since then I've made a point to doublecheck the last few times I used this tag in the sole purpose of not using it without a good reason. Also, I took the resolution to only use it in talk pages in the future. This should avoid further incidents on the matter. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::::I think it would be better to do away with the "newbie" tag altogether. The name of the tag is insulting itself and the text of the tag is less than useful when read by someone feeling insulted. I propose a more respectful tag like "tips". --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 09:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::The tag is intended to be subst'd in so that user talk pages arent updated in case of template change. When used properly, the name of the template wont show up at all. <blockquote><nowiki>{{subst:newbie}}<br>--~~~~</nowiki></blockquote>Not as terrible now, eh? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::::::It's equally terrible if it's not used correctly. Seems a silly extra step to boost the ego of the person placing the tag. Makes more sense to rename in with something respectful. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::::Ok. Do it :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:31, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I have no objection to have it renamed to newcommer or tips or whatever you think is better. It would change ''absolutly'' nothing to me and it's use anyways, I never saw it as a way to feel superior or anything of that kind of crap... For me it's a tool to use sparingly in the right situation. If you look at my user page, you'll see in my description that ''He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary''. Use of this tool is simply a byproduct of this train of thought, by way of prevention. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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== orphaned redirect ==<br />
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Why do you care so much about an orphaned redirect page? All that matters is that it points in the right direction. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Well, even if I were not to point out that it's adding absolutly nothing to the Wiki, that people are more than ''extremely'' unlikely to actually search with such a long keyword and that the word "retarded" is immature and unneeded... I've clicked on the "what links here" button and found out that the redirect you're talking about is not even linked from either. What kind of purpose would it have other than sporting such a word in it's name?<br />
:None. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::There are quite a few orphaned redirects that have no purpose any more. For consistency's sake, you should either leave them all alone or hunt them all down ;) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::I could not care less about "orphaned" redirects. I think you're completely missing my point... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::It seems I am missing it; care to enlighten me? It seems inconsistent to me to care about the miner redirect and not care about things like [[negociator]] or [[Quern (item)]]. What is the difference? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:16, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::The word "retarded". Why would we need to be so crude in the wiki? There is no need, and the page itself was useless. Nobody's going to spell out a 15 word long search. Not to say that dwarves in DF can't really be "retarded"... It's all about how you make them do what you want which make them intelligent or not. When I was younger, we had an acronym to describe that... PIBKAC.<br />
:::::The reason why I'm prompt to act on that particular page is because it's on my watchlist. I'd probably solve the problem if I realise another page is broken but I'm certainly not going to "hunt" those orphaned pages down for the fun of it. There's way more to do on the Wiki right now to stop at each peeble on the road. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:30, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::'''[Conversation cut -> See ''Language'' below.]'''<br />
::::::If I realized that the first page had been deleted, wouldn't have remade it - just wanted to make sure everything was pointing to the proper location when I posted the redirect, and mentally kicked myself when I saw it was marked as (N)ew. :p --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 23:59, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::Yeah, it happened to me once or twice too. I think it's in direct relation with moved pages. I clearly remember that I moved both the talkpage and the page itself to remove the word "retarded" myself. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::You say the language "has no benefit." That point becomes moot because the '''page''' doesn't have benefit either, as is the case with [[negociator]] and [[Quern (item)]]. I'm not going to say we were better off having it, but it wasn't worth the effort to look it up and <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> the bugger, nor is it worth bothering senso about to delete. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::This argument doesn't make sense [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]. Let me copy and paste you the delete message when we add a del tag: ''This page is marked for deletion. Reasons could include a nonsense title, superfluous information, irrelevant/lack of material or the article could be outdated/duplicated.''<br />
:::::::Had the page in question have a nonsense title? Yes, you said it yourself. Does it have irrevelant or a lack of material? Yes. Is the article outdated and/or duplicated? Yes.<br />
:::::::Isn't that ''way'' enough to warrant the delete tag?<br />
:::::::Oh, and BTW I've just checked your two links. [[Negociator]] have it's use for a search, I've added the delete tag to [[Quern (item)]] because I think it's outdated. Probably an old redirect from another page which got fixed/removed. ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Societal standards ==<br />
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I'm being serious. Murder is flat-out worse than pedophilia; there's no denying that. So how is it that jokes about the former can be acceptable, but jokes about the latter cannot? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:1) I don't agree with you. My oppinion is pedophilia is worse because then the child may be left with permanent psychological scars for the rest of his/her life, which will be long because they're ''children'' who are not experienced enough to know better. Murder is about as bad, but since the murdered person won't suffer from it anymore I'm ranking pedophilia worse. Both are unacceptable.<br />
:2) Jokes from both are unacceptable in a normal social situation. Try to make a joke about the murder of someone in front of his family, and see if they like you. Good luck with that. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Pedophilia can be viewed as "worse" because the victim is ''necessarily'' an innocent, whereas in a murder that is not the case. Pedophilia is, truly, not funny in the normal sense. Ephebophila, now, that's comedy gold. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::1) I'm sorry, but if I had the choice of being molested/raped as a child or being murdered, I would choose the former without hesitation. If it's truly worse to suffer from the trauma then to be dead, well, they can always just commit suicide. But I seriously doubt that's the case (fortunately, I wouldn't know first-hand).<br />
:::2) Yes, jokes about specific crimes can be very offensive. Since we're not talking about specific crimes, I don't see how that's relevant. In any case, your statement that both are unacceptable, while completely contradicted by the media in my opinion, differs from the statement I was responding to, so I retract my question.<br />
:::Ephebophilia: That's a good point. I was previously unaware of the distinction, and in fact usually when I think of pedophilia, it's actually ephebophilia that I'm thinking of (who wants to think about real pedophilia? That's creepy!). I'll keep that distinction in mind in the future. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::1) Unfortunatly, the whole point of a murder or pedophilia act is that you don't really have a say in the matter. Furthermore, if you really go to the lenght of suiciding after suffering from pedophilia, the end result is then exactly the same than an improved or move vicious murder. Which is why I rank it worse. :P --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::That makes no sense. If you're molested, you have the choice of living with the trauma or committing suicide (not that I advocate the latter). If you're murdered, you have no choice whatsoever. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::Suiciding is something else. I was refering to the pedophilia and the murder acts concerning the "no choice" comment, not suicide. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::Since we're getting all technical about terminology, I'd like to point out that pedophilia is not a crime. It's a sexual orientation. It's acting on the urge (pederasty) that is the crime.&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:33, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::I realize that. My point is that choices made lead to new choices. The only exception to that is the choice to end a life, which closes off future choices. Life isn't fair, and sometimes our choices get made for us. Sometimes those forced choices can be quite nasty. But a person who is violated but not murdered still has plenty of choices: how they are going to cope, whether they will seek justice, whether they will have spaghetti or tuna salad for dinner, what they will study in school, what they will name their children, how they will spend their retirement, etc. A person who is murdered has none of those choices; the act of ending their life robs them of all their choices, not just one. You talk as if none of those other choices matter in light of the one choice that the molested person didn't get, yet they're the same choices that everybody is faced with. In my view, a person who accepts that effectively has committed suicide, whether they're still physically alive or not. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:48, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:What does the E stand for? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::"Exists". I've never even heard PIBKAC before. lol I suspect they're regional? Wikipedia redirects PIBKAC to PEBKAC, fwiw. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 16:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Probably regional, as english is not my native language. It would simply refer as "is" in my version. E and I are phonetically exactly the same in french VS english, this is probably the reason of the difference. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::Oh now that makes perfect sense. How would one say "Eagle of Fire" in French? And are you speaking Algerian, Swiss, Quebecois, Parisian, etc? What dialect do you have? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:09, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::My native language is french, I speak québéquois as the "subculture". Normal québéquois dialect I think, no special accents and the like. At least I don't know we have a name for it. I'm near Montréal, so if there is a name it should be related to that area.<br />
:::::Eagle of Fire end up being a name, my name when I'm on the internet. Which mean that if we follow french conventions, we'd (try to) say it exactly like in english. Literal translation would be "Aigle de Feu", which mean exactly the same thing than in english: an eagle made of fire. Related information: Phoenix (Phénix)[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_%28mythology%29]] --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Eagle_of_Fire&diff=23843User talk:Eagle of Fire2007-12-12T23:05:54Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Societal standards */</p>
<hr />
<div>== I know you! ==<br />
<br />
<nowiki>:)</nowiki><br />
--[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 12:13, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:What a coincidence! I do, too! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Huzzah! ASCII FOREVA!! --[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 08:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==To whomever it may concern...==<br />
What the hell is the "rule P" I keep reading about? O_o --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:59, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: It's a bunch of [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|stupid rules people have come up with]]. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 23:48, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Hummm... I think your description is pretty accurate. If they want to create rules, I'd be happy with that... But to hide them behind some kind of game... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
==Obsidian Short Sword==<br />
Is it me or I noticed my dwarf taking up a log of wood to make an obsidian short sword? I wanted to check on the wiki to be sure, but there seem to be no particular page for the obsidian short sword that I could see with a quick search. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Your obsidian sword needs a hilt. That's why you need the wood. [[User:Boo radley|Boo radley]] 13:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think obsidian short swords are really supposed to resemble a dwarf-sized [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl macuahuitl], hence the wood. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:47, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Would make sense, thanks for the link. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Newbie nonsense ==<br />
Thanks for that slap in the face there, chief. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 12:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:If you don't even know why it was put there, I should probably go place it back again. It was probably because you made a bunch of edits one after the other on the same page. Use the preview button and it won't happen again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm well aware as to why it was put there, but it appears more as an insult than advice if you ask me. I did use the preview button, but I didn't see my mistakes until after published. Everyone makes simple mistakes. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 19:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::The reason why the <nowiki>{{newbie}}</nowiki> tag was created was to be able to send some quick pointers to new users. Your user page was pretty bland and I can't really keep track of the new users since there is so many now. I simply used the tag in a quick edit. I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is said almost everyday, using a generic tag is so less bothersome and that much quicker.<br />
:::It should not be taken as an insult but rather as a friendly advice. It's really not that big of a deal. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:08, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::I'd like to point out that since then I've made a point to doublecheck the last few times I used this tag in the sole purpose of not using it without a good reason. Also, I took the resolution to only use it in talk pages in the future. This should avoid further incidents on the matter. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::I think it would be better to do away with the "newbie" tag altogether. The name of the tag is insulting itself and the text of the tag is less than useful when read by someone feeling insulted. I propose a more respectful tag like "tips". --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 09:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::The tag is intended to be subst'd in so that user talk pages arent updated in case of template change. When used properly, the name of the template wont show up at all. <blockquote><nowiki>{{subst:newbie}}<br>--~~~~</nowiki></blockquote>Not as terrible now, eh? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::::It's equally terrible if it's not used correctly. Seems a silly extra step to boost the ego of the person placing the tag. Makes more sense to rename in with something respectful. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. Do it :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:31, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I have no objection to have it renamed to newcommer or tips or whatever you think is better. It would change ''absolutly'' nothing to me and it's use anyways, I never saw it as a way to feel superior or anything of that kind of crap... For me it's a tool to use sparingly in the right situation. If you look at my user page, you'll see in my description that ''He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary''. Use of this tool is simply a byproduct of this train of thought, by way of prevention. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== orphaned redirect ==<br />
<br />
Why do you care so much about an orphaned redirect page? All that matters is that it points in the right direction. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Well, even if I were not to point out that it's adding absolutly nothing to the Wiki, that people are more than ''extremely'' unlikely to actually search with such a long keyword and that the word "retarded" is immature and unneeded... I've clicked on the "what links here" button and found out that the redirect you're talking about is not even linked from either. What kind of purpose would it have other than sporting such a word in it's name?<br />
:None. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::There are quite a few orphaned redirects that have no purpose any more. For consistency's sake, you should either leave them all alone or hunt them all down ;) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::I could not care less about "orphaned" redirects. I think you're completely missing my point... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::It seems I am missing it; care to enlighten me? It seems inconsistent to me to care about the miner redirect and not care about things like [[negociator]] or [[Quern (item)]]. What is the difference? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:16, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::The word "retarded". Why would we need to be so crude in the wiki? There is no need, and the page itself was useless. Nobody's going to spell out a 15 word long search. Not to say that dwarves in DF can't really be "retarded"... It's all about how you make them do what you want which make them intelligent or not. When I was younger, we had an acronym to describe that... PIBKAC.<br />
:::::The reason why I'm prompt to act on that particular page is because it's on my watchlist. I'd probably solve the problem if I realise another page is broken but I'm certainly not going to "hunt" those orphaned pages down for the fun of it. There's way more to do on the Wiki right now to stop at each peeble on the road. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:30, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::'''[Conversation cut -> See ''Language'' below.]'''<br />
::::::If I realized that the first page had been deleted, wouldn't have remade it - just wanted to make sure everything was pointing to the proper location when I posted the redirect, and mentally kicked myself when I saw it was marked as (N)ew. :p --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 23:59, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::Yeah, it happened to me once or twice too. I think it's in direct relation with moved pages. I clearly remember that I moved both the talkpage and the page itself to remove the word "retarded" myself. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::You say the language "has no benefit." That point becomes moot because the '''page''' doesn't have benefit either, as is the case with [[negociator]] and [[Quern (item)]]. I'm not going to say we were better off having it, but it wasn't worth the effort to look it up and <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> the bugger, nor is it worth bothering senso about to delete. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::This argument doesn't make sense [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]. Let me copy and paste you the delete message when we add a del tag: ''This page is marked for deletion. Reasons could include a nonsense title, superfluous information, irrelevant/lack of material or the article could be outdated/duplicated.''<br />
:::::::Had the page in question have a nonsense title? Yes, you said it yourself. Does it have irrevelant or a lack of material? Yes. Is the article outdated and/or duplicated? Yes.<br />
:::::::Isn't that ''way'' enough to warrant the delete tag?<br />
:::::::Oh, and BTW I've just checked your two links. [[Negociator]] have it's use for a search, I've added the delete tag to [[Quern (item)]] because I think it's outdated. Probably an old redirect from another page which got fixed/removed. ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Societal standards ==<br />
<br />
I'm being serious. Murder is flat-out worse than pedophilia; there's no denying that. So how is it that jokes about the former can be acceptable, but jokes about the latter cannot? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:1) I don't agree with you. My oppinion is pedophilia is worse because then the child may be left with permanent psychological scars for the rest of his/her life, which will be long because they're ''children'' who are not experienced enough to know better. Murder is about as bad, but since the murdered person won't suffer from it anymore I'm ranking pedophilia worse. Both are unacceptable.<br />
:2) Jokes from both are unacceptable in a normal social situation. Try to make a joke about the murder of someone in front of his family, and see if they like you. Good luck with that. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Pedophilia can be viewed as "worse" because the victim is ''necessarily'' an innocent, whereas in a murder that is not the case. Pedophilia is, truly, not funny in the normal sense. Ephebophila, now, that's comedy gold. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::1) I'm sorry, but if I had the choice of being molested/raped as a child or being murdered, I would choose the former without hesitation. If it's truly worse to suffer from the trauma then to be dead, well, they can always just commit suicide. But I seriously doubt that's the case (fortunately, I wouldn't know first-hand).<br />
:::2) Yes, jokes about specific crimes can be very offensive. Since we're not talking about specific crimes, I don't see how that's relevant. In any case, your statement that both are unacceptable, while completely contradicted by the media in my opinion, differs from the statement I was responding to, so I retract my question.<br />
:::Ephebophilia: That's a good point. I was previously unaware of the distinction, and in fact usually when I think of pedophilia, it's actually ephebophilia that I'm thinking of (who wants to think about real pedophilia? That's creepy!). I'll keep that distinction in mind in the future. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::1) Unfortunatly, the whole point of a murder or pedophilia act is that you don't really have a say in the matter. Furthermore, if you really go to the lenght of suiciding after suffering from pedophilia, the end result is then exactly the same than an improved or move vicious murder. Which is why I rank it worse. :P --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::That makes no sense. If you're molested, you have the choice of living with the trauma or committing suicide (not that I advocate the latter). If you're murdered, you have no choice whatsoever. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:What does the E stand for? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::"Exists". I've never even heard PIBKAC before. lol I suspect they're regional? Wikipedia redirects PIBKAC to PEBKAC, fwiw. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 16:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Probably regional, as english is not my native language. It would simply refer as "is" in my version. E and I are phonetically exactly the same in french VS english, this is probably the reason of the difference. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::Oh now that makes perfect sense. How would one say "Eagle of Fire" in French? And are you speaking Algerian, Swiss, Quebecois, Parisian, etc? What dialect do you have? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:09, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::My native language is french, I speak québéquois as the "subculture". Normal québéquois dialect I think, no special accents and the like. At least I don't know we have a name for it. I'm near Montréal, so if there is a name it should be related to that area.<br />
:::::Eagle of Fire end up being a name, my name when I'm on the internet. Which mean that if we follow french conventions, we'd (try to) say it exactly like in english. Literal translation would be "Aigle de Feu", which mean exactly the same thing than in english: an eagle made of fire. Related information: Phoenix (Phénix)[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_%28mythology%29]] --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Eagle_of_Fire&diff=23841User talk:Eagle of Fire2007-12-12T22:30:50Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Societal standards */</p>
<hr />
<div>== I know you! ==<br />
<br />
<nowiki>:)</nowiki><br />
--[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 12:13, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:What a coincidence! I do, too! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Huzzah! ASCII FOREVA!! --[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 08:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==To whomever it may concern...==<br />
What the hell is the "rule P" I keep reading about? O_o --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:59, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: It's a bunch of [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|stupid rules people have come up with]]. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 23:48, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Hummm... I think your description is pretty accurate. If they want to create rules, I'd be happy with that... But to hide them behind some kind of game... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
==Obsidian Short Sword==<br />
Is it me or I noticed my dwarf taking up a log of wood to make an obsidian short sword? I wanted to check on the wiki to be sure, but there seem to be no particular page for the obsidian short sword that I could see with a quick search. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Your obsidian sword needs a hilt. That's why you need the wood. [[User:Boo radley|Boo radley]] 13:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think obsidian short swords are really supposed to resemble a dwarf-sized [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl macuahuitl], hence the wood. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:47, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Would make sense, thanks for the link. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Newbie nonsense ==<br />
Thanks for that slap in the face there, chief. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 12:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:If you don't even know why it was put there, I should probably go place it back again. It was probably because you made a bunch of edits one after the other on the same page. Use the preview button and it won't happen again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm well aware as to why it was put there, but it appears more as an insult than advice if you ask me. I did use the preview button, but I didn't see my mistakes until after published. Everyone makes simple mistakes. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 19:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::The reason why the <nowiki>{{newbie}}</nowiki> tag was created was to be able to send some quick pointers to new users. Your user page was pretty bland and I can't really keep track of the new users since there is so many now. I simply used the tag in a quick edit. I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is said almost everyday, using a generic tag is so less bothersome and that much quicker.<br />
:::It should not be taken as an insult but rather as a friendly advice. It's really not that big of a deal. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:08, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::I'd like to point out that since then I've made a point to doublecheck the last few times I used this tag in the sole purpose of not using it without a good reason. Also, I took the resolution to only use it in talk pages in the future. This should avoid further incidents on the matter. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::I think it would be better to do away with the "newbie" tag altogether. The name of the tag is insulting itself and the text of the tag is less than useful when read by someone feeling insulted. I propose a more respectful tag like "tips". --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 09:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::The tag is intended to be subst'd in so that user talk pages arent updated in case of template change. When used properly, the name of the template wont show up at all. <blockquote><nowiki>{{subst:newbie}}<br>--~~~~</nowiki></blockquote>Not as terrible now, eh? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::::It's equally terrible if it's not used correctly. Seems a silly extra step to boost the ego of the person placing the tag. Makes more sense to rename in with something respectful. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. Do it :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:31, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I have no objection to have it renamed to newcommer or tips or whatever you think is better. It would change ''absolutly'' nothing to me and it's use anyways, I never saw it as a way to feel superior or anything of that kind of crap... For me it's a tool to use sparingly in the right situation. If you look at my user page, you'll see in my description that ''He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary''. Use of this tool is simply a byproduct of this train of thought, by way of prevention. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== orphaned redirect ==<br />
<br />
Why do you care so much about an orphaned redirect page? All that matters is that it points in the right direction. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Well, even if I were not to point out that it's adding absolutly nothing to the Wiki, that people are more than ''extremely'' unlikely to actually search with such a long keyword and that the word "retarded" is immature and unneeded... I've clicked on the "what links here" button and found out that the redirect you're talking about is not even linked from either. What kind of purpose would it have other than sporting such a word in it's name?<br />
:None. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::There are quite a few orphaned redirects that have no purpose any more. For consistency's sake, you should either leave them all alone or hunt them all down ;) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::I could not care less about "orphaned" redirects. I think you're completely missing my point... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::It seems I am missing it; care to enlighten me? It seems inconsistent to me to care about the miner redirect and not care about things like [[negociator]] or [[Quern (item)]]. What is the difference? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:16, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::The word "retarded". Why would we need to be so crude in the wiki? There is no need, and the page itself was useless. Nobody's going to spell out a 15 word long search. Not to say that dwarves in DF can't really be "retarded"... It's all about how you make them do what you want which make them intelligent or not. When I was younger, we had an acronym to describe that... PIBKAC.<br />
:::::The reason why I'm prompt to act on that particular page is because it's on my watchlist. I'd probably solve the problem if I realise another page is broken but I'm certainly not going to "hunt" those orphaned pages down for the fun of it. There's way more to do on the Wiki right now to stop at each peeble on the road. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:30, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::'''[Conversation cut -> See ''Language'' below.]'''<br />
::::::If I realized that the first page had been deleted, wouldn't have remade it - just wanted to make sure everything was pointing to the proper location when I posted the redirect, and mentally kicked myself when I saw it was marked as (N)ew. :p --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 23:59, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::Yeah, it happened to me once or twice too. I think it's in direct relation with moved pages. I clearly remember that I moved both the talkpage and the page itself to remove the word "retarded" myself. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::You say the language "has no benefit." That point becomes moot because the '''page''' doesn't have benefit either, as is the case with [[negociator]] and [[Quern (item)]]. I'm not going to say we were better off having it, but it wasn't worth the effort to look it up and <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> the bugger, nor is it worth bothering senso about to delete. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::This argument doesn't make sense [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]. Let me copy and paste you the delete message when we add a del tag: ''This page is marked for deletion. Reasons could include a nonsense title, superfluous information, irrelevant/lack of material or the article could be outdated/duplicated.''<br />
:::::::Had the page in question have a nonsense title? Yes, you said it yourself. Does it have irrevelant or a lack of material? Yes. Is the article outdated and/or duplicated? Yes.<br />
:::::::Isn't that ''way'' enough to warrant the delete tag?<br />
:::::::Oh, and BTW I've just checked your two links. [[Negociator]] have it's use for a search, I've added the delete tag to [[Quern (item)]] because I think it's outdated. Probably an old redirect from another page which got fixed/removed. ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Societal standards ==<br />
<br />
I'm being serious. Murder is flat-out worse than pedophilia; there's no denying that. So how is it that jokes about the former can be acceptable, but jokes about the latter cannot? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:1) I don't agree with you. My oppinion is pedophilia is worse because then the child may be left with permanent psychological scars for the rest of his/her life, which will be long because they're ''children'' who are not experienced enough to know better. Murder is about as bad, but since the murdered person won't suffer from it anymore I'm ranking pedophilia worse. Both are unacceptable.<br />
:2) Jokes from both are unacceptable in a normal social situation. Try to make a joke about the murder of someone in front of his family, and see if they like you. Good luck with that. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Pedophilia can be viewed as "worse" because the victim is ''necessarily'' an innocent, whereas in a murder that is not the case. Pedophilia is, truly, not funny in the normal sense. Ephebophila, now, that's comedy gold. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::1) I'm sorry, but if I had the choice of being molested/raped as a child or being murdered, I would choose the former without hesitation. If it's truly worse to suffer from the trauma then to be dead, well, they can always just commit suicide. But I seriously doubt that's the case (fortunately, I wouldn't know first-hand).<br />
:::2) Yes, jokes about specific crimes can be very offensive. Since we're not talking about specific crimes, I don't see how that's relevant. In any case, your statement that both are unacceptable, while completely contradicted by the media in my opinion, differs from the statement I was responding to, so I retract my question.<br />
:::Ephebophilia: That's a good point. I was previously unaware of the distinction, and in fact usually when I think of pedophilia, it's actually ephebophilia that I'm thinking of (who wants to think about real pedophilia? That's creepy!). I'll keep that distinction in mind in the future. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:What does the E stand for? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::"Exists". I've never even heard PIBKAC before. lol I suspect they're regional? Wikipedia redirects PIBKAC to PEBKAC, fwiw. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 16:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Probably regional, as english is not my native language. It would simply refer as "is" in my version. E and I are phonetically exactly the same in french VS english, this is probably the reason of the difference. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::Oh now that makes perfect sense. How would one say "Eagle of Fire" in French? And are you speaking Algerian, Swiss, Quebecois, Parisian, etc? What dialect do you have? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:09, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::My native language is french, I speak québéquois as the "subculture". Normal québéquois dialect I think, no special accents and the like. At least I don't know we have a name for it. I'm near Montréal, so if there is a name it should be related to that area.<br />
:::::Eagle of Fire end up being a name, my name when I'm on the internet. Which mean that if we follow french conventions, we'd (try to) say it exactly like in english. Literal translation would be "Aigle de Feu", which mean exactly the same thing than in english: an eagle made of fire. Related information: Phoenix (Phénix)[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_%28mythology%29]] --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Eagle_of_Fire&diff=23836User talk:Eagle of Fire2007-12-12T21:50:55Z<p>Peristarkawan: Societal standards</p>
<hr />
<div>== I know you! ==<br />
<br />
<nowiki>:)</nowiki><br />
--[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 12:13, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:What a coincidence! I do, too! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Huzzah! ASCII FOREVA!! --[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 08:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==To whomever it may concern...==<br />
What the hell is the "rule P" I keep reading about? O_o --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:59, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: It's a bunch of [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|stupid rules people have come up with]]. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 23:48, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Hummm... I think your description is pretty accurate. If they want to create rules, I'd be happy with that... But to hide them behind some kind of game... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
==Obsidian Short Sword==<br />
Is it me or I noticed my dwarf taking up a log of wood to make an obsidian short sword? I wanted to check on the wiki to be sure, but there seem to be no particular page for the obsidian short sword that I could see with a quick search. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Your obsidian sword needs a hilt. That's why you need the wood. [[User:Boo radley|Boo radley]] 13:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think obsidian short swords are really supposed to resemble a dwarf-sized [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl macuahuitl], hence the wood. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:47, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Would make sense, thanks for the link. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Newbie nonsense ==<br />
Thanks for that slap in the face there, chief. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 12:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:If you don't even know why it was put there, I should probably go place it back again. It was probably because you made a bunch of edits one after the other on the same page. Use the preview button and it won't happen again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm well aware as to why it was put there, but it appears more as an insult than advice if you ask me. I did use the preview button, but I didn't see my mistakes until after published. Everyone makes simple mistakes. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 19:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::The reason why the <nowiki>{{newbie}}</nowiki> tag was created was to be able to send some quick pointers to new users. Your user page was pretty bland and I can't really keep track of the new users since there is so many now. I simply used the tag in a quick edit. I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is said almost everyday, using a generic tag is so less bothersome and that much quicker.<br />
:::It should not be taken as an insult but rather as a friendly advice. It's really not that big of a deal. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:08, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::I'd like to point out that since then I've made a point to doublecheck the last few times I used this tag in the sole purpose of not using it without a good reason. Also, I took the resolution to only use it in talk pages in the future. This should avoid further incidents on the matter. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::::I think it would be better to do away with the "newbie" tag altogether. The name of the tag is insulting itself and the text of the tag is less than useful when read by someone feeling insulted. I propose a more respectful tag like "tips". --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 09:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::::The tag is intended to be subst'd in so that user talk pages arent updated in case of template change. When used properly, the name of the template wont show up at all. <blockquote><nowiki>{{subst:newbie}}<br>--~~~~</nowiki></blockquote>Not as terrible now, eh? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::::::It's equally terrible if it's not used correctly. Seems a silly extra step to boost the ego of the person placing the tag. Makes more sense to rename in with something respectful. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. Do it :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:31, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I have no objection to have it renamed to newcommer or tips or whatever you think is better. It would change ''absolutly'' nothing to me and it's use anyways, I never saw it as a way to feel superior or anything of that kind of crap... For me it's a tool to use sparingly in the right situation. If you look at my user page, you'll see in my description that ''He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary''. Use of this tool is simply a byproduct of this train of thought, by way of prevention. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== orphaned redirect ==<br />
<br />
Why do you care so much about an orphaned redirect page? All that matters is that it points in the right direction. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Well, even if I were not to point out that it's adding absolutly nothing to the Wiki, that people are more than ''extremely'' unlikely to actually search with such a long keyword and that the word "retarded" is immature and unneeded... I've clicked on the "what links here" button and found out that the redirect you're talking about is not even linked from either. What kind of purpose would it have other than sporting such a word in it's name?<br />
:None. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::There are quite a few orphaned redirects that have no purpose any more. For consistency's sake, you should either leave them all alone or hunt them all down ;) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::I could not care less about "orphaned" redirects. I think you're completely missing my point... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::It seems I am missing it; care to enlighten me? It seems inconsistent to me to care about the miner redirect and not care about things like [[negociator]] or [[Quern (item)]]. What is the difference? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:16, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::The word "retarded". Why would we need to be so crude in the wiki? There is no need, and the page itself was useless. Nobody's going to spell out a 15 word long search. Not to say that dwarves in DF can't really be "retarded"... It's all about how you make them do what you want which make them intelligent or not. When I was younger, we had an acronym to describe that... PIBKAC.<br />
:::::The reason why I'm prompt to act on that particular page is because it's on my watchlist. I'd probably solve the problem if I realise another page is broken but I'm certainly not going to "hunt" those orphaned pages down for the fun of it. There's way more to do on the Wiki right now to stop at each peeble on the road. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:30, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::What does the E stand for? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::::"Exists". I've never even heard PIBKAC before. lol I suspect they're regional? Wikipedia redirects PIBKAC to PEBKAC, fwiw. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 16:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Probably regional, as english is not my native language. It would simply refer as "is" in my version. E and I are phonetically exactly the same in french VS english, this is probably the reason of the difference. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::If I realized that the first page had been deleted, wouldn't have remade it - just wanted to make sure everything was pointing to the proper location when I posted the redirect, and mentally kicked myself when I saw it was marked as (N)ew. :p --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 23:59, 11 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::Yeah, it happened to me once or twice too. I think it's in direct relation with moved pages. I clearly remember that I moved both the talkpage and the page itself to remove the word "retarded" myself. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::::You say the language "has no benefit." That point becomes moot because the '''page''' doesn't have benefit either, as is the case with [[negociator]] and [[Quern (item)]]. I'm not going to say we were better off having it, but it wasn't worth the effort to look it up and <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> the bugger, nor is it worth bothering senso about to delete. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::::This argument doesn't make sense [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]. Let me copy and paste you the delete message when we add a del tag: ''This page is marked for deletion. Reasons could include a nonsense title, superfluous information, irrelevant/lack of material or the article could be outdated/duplicated.''<br />
:::::::Had the page in question have a nonsense title? Yes, you said it yourself. Does it have irrevelant or a lack of material? Yes. Is the article outdated and/or duplicated? Yes.<br />
:::::::Isn't that ''way'' enough to warrant the delete tag?<br />
:::::::Oh, and BTW I've just checked your two links. [[Negociator]] have it's use for a search, I've added the delete tag to [[Quern (item)]] because I think it's outdated. Probably an old redirect from another page which got fixed/removed. ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Societal standards ==<br />
<br />
I'm being serious. Murder is flat-out worse than pedophilia; there's no denying that. So how is it that jokes about the former can be acceptable, but jokes about the latter cannot? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Goblin&diff=2586640d Talk:Goblin2007-12-12T21:27:33Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Snatchers / pedophiles */</p>
<hr />
<div>==== Thieves & cage traps ====<br />
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion<br />
<br />
:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Snatchers / pedophiles ==<br />
<br />
Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::::I'm very confident that if it continue, it will result in the ban of [[User:Billdauterive|Billdauterive]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:I support the word "snatcher" over "pedophile", for three reasons. First, it's more likely to be immediately understood by all wiki readers. Second, we're not talking same-species kiddy snatchers here - these are goblins, and goblins enslave and/or eat dwarf children. Third, why suggest nastiness and smut (as though dwarven kids ''a la carte'' wasn't horrid enough!) in a wiki without firm grounds? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 16:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::I wasn't suggesting removing the word "snatcher" at all. You've got to agree that it seems a bit peculiar that the snatchers ''only'' target children. Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile goblins are sick? Seems like a double standard to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Goblin&diff=2586340d Talk:Goblin2007-12-12T20:51:31Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Snatchers / pedophiles */</p>
<hr />
<div>==== Thieves & cage traps ====<br />
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion<br />
<br />
:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Snatchers / pedophiles ==<br />
<br />
Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Goblin&diff=2586040d Talk:Goblin2007-12-12T18:55:59Z<p>Peristarkawan: Snatchers / pedophiles</p>
<hr />
<div>==== Thieves & cage traps ====<br />
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion<br />
<br />
:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Snatchers / pedophiles ==<br />
<br />
Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=13465Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal2007-12-12T17:06:33Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Rules */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Account Problems==<br />
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)<br />
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==AdBlock==<br />
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Rules==<br />
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.<br />
<br />
::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.<br />
<br />
:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=13462Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal2007-12-10T16:54:58Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Rules */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Account Problems==<br />
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)<br />
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==AdBlock==<br />
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Rules==<br />
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.<br />
<br />
::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Computing&diff=2884540d Talk:Computing2007-11-28T17:38:58Z<p>Peristarkawan: Machine logic</p>
<hr />
<div>I created this page because I think it's a very interesting part of the game for advanced players. I'm not at all familiar with creating wiki pages, so if someone else who was familiar with the concepts could write a section or two themselves, that would be grand. Right now I think it's been proven possible to create logical input and output gates using fluid dynamics, axles and gears, and even the movements of dwarves utilizing pressure plates.<br />
<br />
It was on the 4th of Galena 1097 that the Fortress 'The Net of Skies' became self-aware. Panicked mechanics attempted to disengage the mechanisms, but the fortress interpreted this as an attack and designated all Dwarves as hostile... --[[User:WyldKarde|WyldKarde]] 13:17, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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<br />
:A suggested component: The one-use lever.<br />
<br />
ó _X_ ___ / = ramp X = door<br />
#" ¯ /### " = bridge<br />
#########<br />
<br />
:The lever has a Pull The Lever repeat job on it. The door only opens when access is required. Upon being pulled, the lever opens the bridge and drops the dwarf that pulled it. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 14:56, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Problem detected: the lever doesn't obstruct, so the dwarf can be left hanging on the lever's tile.<br />
<br />
I think we should strive to include an example of an NAND gate and/or a NOR gate for each style since that's the bare minimum for operation.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 22:09, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Machine logic ==<br />
<br />
The machine logic gates as they stand are incomplete. The inputs are levers, but the outputs are machine components. In order to connect a machine logic gate to another gate, the machine signal needs to be converted back into a lever signal. The only way I can see to do that is with a water tank, a pump, and a pressure plate. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:38, 28 November 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Driftwood&diff=2151140d:Driftwood2007-11-13T21:26:35Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Driftwood''' is a feature of [[Ocean|beach]] maps. It is not known if it replenishes over time. It cannot be harvested for [[wood]], nor can it be [[smoothing|smoothed over]]. Driftwood can be removed by {{k|b}}uilding a {{k|C}}onstruction such as a [[Road|r{{k|o}}ad]] or [[Wall|{{k|w}}all]] on the tile, which will transform the tile into an ordinary tile of the base [[Stone|rock]] type. Note that you cannot see the rock type of a driftwood tile while the driftwood is present.<br />
[[Category:Ocean]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Metalsmith&diff=2238740d:Metalsmith2007-11-13T17:44:59Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Trap Components */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Metalsmith's Forge|key=f|job=Metalsmithing<br />
|construction=<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[Block]]<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Metalsmithing]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Aluminum]] bar<br />
* [[Billon]] bar<br />
* [[Bismuth Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Black Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Brass]] bar<br />
* [[Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Charcoal]]<br />
* [[Coke]]<br />
* [[Copper]] bar<br />
* [[Electrum]] bar<br />
* [[Iron]] bar<br />
* [[Gold]] bar<br />
* [[Lead]] bar<br />
* [[Nickel]] bar<br />
* [[Nickel silver]] bar<br />
* [[Platinum]] bar<br />
* [[Fine pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Trifle pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Lay pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Rose Gold]] bar<br />
* [[Silver]] bar<br />
* [[Sterling silver]] bar<br />
* [[Steel]] bar<br />
* [[Tin]] bar<br />
* [[Zinc]] bar<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Animal trap]]<br />
* [[Anvil]]<br />
* [[Armor stand]]<br />
* [[Ballista arrowhead]]<br />
* [[Barrel]]<br />
* [[Battle axe]]<br />
* [[Bolts]]<br />
* [[Boots]]<br />
* [[Bucket]]<br />
* [[Buckler]]<br />
* [[Cabinet]]<br />
* [[Cage]]<br />
* [[Cap]]<br />
* [[Chain]]<br />
* [[Chain mail]]<br />
* [[Chest]]<br />
* [[Coins]]<br />
* [[Crafts]]<br />
* [[Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Door]]<br />
* [[Enormous corkscrew]]<br />
* [[Flask]]<br />
* [[Floodgate]]<br />
* [[Gauntlets]]<br />
* [[Giant axe blade]]<br />
* [[Goblet]]<br />
* [[Grate]]<br />
* [[Greaves]]<br />
* [[Hatch Cover]]<br />
* [[Helm]]<br />
* [[Instrument]]<br />
* [[Large serrated disc]]<br />
* [[Leggings]]<br />
* [[Mace]]<br />
* [[Menacing spike]]<br />
* [[Metal blocks]]<br />
* [[Pick]]<br />
* [[Pipe Section]]<br />
* [[Plate mail]]<br />
* [[Sarcophagus]]<br />
* [[Shield]]<br />
* [[Short sword]]<br />
* [[Spear]]<br />
* [[Spiked ball]]<br />
* [[Statue]]<br />
* [[Table]]<br />
* [[Throne]]<br />
* [[Toy]]<br />
* [[War hammer]]<br />
* [[Weapon rack]]<br />
* [[decorations|Studded goods]]<br />
* [[Adamantine wafers]] (Magma Forge only)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
The '''metalsmith's forge''' turns [[metal bar]]s into various [[weapons]], [[armor]]s, [[furniture]], [[siege ammunition]], [[trap]] components, and other objects. To build a forge, you must have one [[block]] and an [[anvil]]. If you embark without preparing carefully, you will start with one [[iron]] anvil. If you lose it or start without an anvil, you can often trade for one.<br />
<br />
It takes one unit of [[charcoal]] or [[coke]] to produce items on a forge, unless you use a [[magma forge]].<br />
<br />
== Weapons ==<br />
<br />
[[Weapons]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]], [[silver]] and [[adamantine]], for one [[metal]] [[bar]] each. The weapons that can be forged are:<br />
<br />
* [[Battle axe]]<br />
* [[War hammer]]<br />
* [[Short sword]]<br />
* [[Spear]]<br />
* [[Mace]]<br />
* [[Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Pick]]<br />
* [[Bolts]] (a stack of 25 will be produced)<br />
<br />
However, note that crossbows and picks cannot be forged out of silver.<br />
<br />
== Armor ==<br />
<br />
[[Armor]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]] and [[adamantine]]. Available armor types include:<br />
<br />
* [[Plate mail]] (3 [[metal]] bars)<br />
* [[Chain mail]] (2 metal [[bars]])<br />
* [[Greaves]] (2 metal bars)<br />
* [[Leggings]]<br />
* [[Helm]]<br />
* [[Cap]]<br />
* [[Gauntlet]]<br />
* [[High Boot]]<br />
* [[Low Boot]]<br />
* [[Shield]]<br />
* [[Buckler]]<br />
<br />
Each piece of armor requires one metal bar to forge, except where noted.<br />
<br />
== Furniture ==<br />
<br />
[[Furniture]] can forged from any non brittle metal -- in short, all [[metal]]s except for [[pig iron]] and [[Bismuth]]. You can forge:<br />
<br />
* [[Cage]]<br />
* [[Chain]] (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Animal trap]] (1 metal bar) (metalsmith must have [[Trapper|trapping]] labor enabled as well)<br />
* [[Bucket]] (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Barrel]]<br />
* [[Armor stand]]<br />
* Metal [[block]]s (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Door]]<br />
* [[Floodgate]]<br />
* [[Hatch Cover]]<br />
* [[Grate]]<br />
* [[Statue]]<br />
* [[Cabinet]]<br />
* [[Chest]]<br />
* [[Throne]]<br />
* [[Sarcophagus]]<br />
* [[Table]]<br />
* [[Weapon rack]]<br />
* [[Bin]]<br />
* [[Pipe Section]]<br />
<br />
All metal furniture requires 3 [[bars]] to forge except for [[chain]]s, animal traps, buckets and blocks.<br />
<br />
== Siege Equipment ==<br />
<br />
[[Siege Equipment]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]], [[silver]] and [[adamantine]]. Only one piece of siege equipment can be forged: the [[ballista]] arrowhead, which requires 3 [[metal]] [[bars]]. These arrowheads must then be mated with a wooden [[log]] at a [[siege workshop]] to form a complete ballista [[bolt]]. It is also possible to make pure wooden ballista bolts at the siege workshop, which are assumed to do less damage. The [[siege engines]] themselves are also built at the siege workshop, out of three siege engine parts made of [[wood]].<br />
<br />
== Trap Components ==<br />
<br />
[[Trap]] components]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], and [[steel]]. These include:<br />
<br />
* [[Giant axe blade]]<br />
* [[Enormous corkscrew]]<br />
* [[Spiked ball]]<br />
* [[Large, serrated disc]]<br />
* [[Menacing spike]]<br />
<br />
Note that each requires 2 [[bars]] of [[metal]] to forge.<br />
<br />
Corkscrews, menacing spikes and spiked balls can also be made from wood at a [[carpenter's workshop]], requiring 1 log each.<br />
<br />
== Other Objects ==<br />
<br />
Other objects can be forged from all [[metal]]s except [[pig iron]]. They are:<br />
<br />
* [[Anvil]] ([[iron]], [[steel]] or [[adamantine]])<br />
* [[Craft]]s<br />
* [[Goblet]]<br />
* [[Toy]]<br />
* [[Instrument]]<br />
* [[Flask]]s<br />
* Minted [[Coins]]<br />
* [[Stud]] an item with metal<br />
<br />
Each of the above objects requires one bar of metal to make, including studding. Like other [[decorations]] (such as [[Jeweler's Workshop|encrusting with gems]], [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop|decorating with bone]] or [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop|decorating with shell]]), you cannot specify which object to stud: the smithy will generally take the nearest available object and stud it.<br />
<br />
In addition, 3 [[bars]] of either [[iron]] or [[steel]] can be used to forge [[anvil]]s, which are used in the construction of additional forges.<br />
<br />
== Metal Clothing ==<br />
<br />
[[Adamantine]] can be used to make anything, even lightweight clothing.<br />
All the clothing items that can be made at the [[clothier's shop]] can be forged from adamantine if you have it.<br />
<br />
== Skills Used ==<br />
<br />
* [[Metalsmith]]: All [[furniture]] except [[chain]]s and [[animal trap]]s; [[anvil]]s<br />
* [[Skills#Metal_Crafter|Metal Crafter]]: Chains; everything in the "all other objects" category except anvils.<br />
* [[Skills#Weaponsmith|Weaponsmith]]: All weapons and ammunition except for [[Crossbow|crossbows]]; [[Trap|trap components]]; [[siege equipment]]?<br />
* [[Skills#Bowyer|Bowyer]]: [[Crossbow|Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Skills#Armorsmith|Armorsmith]]: All [[armor]]<br />
* [[Skills#Trapper|Trapper]]: [[Animal trap]]s<br />
Note: This section is a work in progress; it needs further data and correction.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/guides/DF%20Metalcrafts%20Crib%20Sheet.htm Metalcrafts Cribsheet], (based on information on this page)<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category: Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Metalsmith&diff=2238640d:Metalsmith2007-11-13T17:44:43Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* Trap Components */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Metalsmith's Forge|key=f|job=Metalsmithing<br />
|construction=<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[Block]]<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Metalsmithing]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Aluminum]] bar<br />
* [[Billon]] bar<br />
* [[Bismuth Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Black Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Brass]] bar<br />
* [[Bronze]] bar<br />
* [[Charcoal]]<br />
* [[Coke]]<br />
* [[Copper]] bar<br />
* [[Electrum]] bar<br />
* [[Iron]] bar<br />
* [[Gold]] bar<br />
* [[Lead]] bar<br />
* [[Nickel]] bar<br />
* [[Nickel silver]] bar<br />
* [[Platinum]] bar<br />
* [[Fine pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Trifle pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Lay pewter]] bar<br />
* [[Rose Gold]] bar<br />
* [[Silver]] bar<br />
* [[Sterling silver]] bar<br />
* [[Steel]] bar<br />
* [[Tin]] bar<br />
* [[Zinc]] bar<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Animal trap]]<br />
* [[Anvil]]<br />
* [[Armor stand]]<br />
* [[Ballista arrowhead]]<br />
* [[Barrel]]<br />
* [[Battle axe]]<br />
* [[Bolts]]<br />
* [[Boots]]<br />
* [[Bucket]]<br />
* [[Buckler]]<br />
* [[Cabinet]]<br />
* [[Cage]]<br />
* [[Cap]]<br />
* [[Chain]]<br />
* [[Chain mail]]<br />
* [[Chest]]<br />
* [[Coins]]<br />
* [[Crafts]]<br />
* [[Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Door]]<br />
* [[Enormous corkscrew]]<br />
* [[Flask]]<br />
* [[Floodgate]]<br />
* [[Gauntlets]]<br />
* [[Giant axe blade]]<br />
* [[Goblet]]<br />
* [[Grate]]<br />
* [[Greaves]]<br />
* [[Hatch Cover]]<br />
* [[Helm]]<br />
* [[Instrument]]<br />
* [[Large serrated disc]]<br />
* [[Leggings]]<br />
* [[Mace]]<br />
* [[Menacing spike]]<br />
* [[Metal blocks]]<br />
* [[Pick]]<br />
* [[Pipe Section]]<br />
* [[Plate mail]]<br />
* [[Sarcophagus]]<br />
* [[Shield]]<br />
* [[Short sword]]<br />
* [[Spear]]<br />
* [[Spiked ball]]<br />
* [[Statue]]<br />
* [[Table]]<br />
* [[Throne]]<br />
* [[Toy]]<br />
* [[War hammer]]<br />
* [[Weapon rack]]<br />
* [[decorations|Studded goods]]<br />
* [[Adamantine wafers]] (Magma Forge only)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
The '''metalsmith's forge''' turns [[metal bar]]s into various [[weapons]], [[armor]]s, [[furniture]], [[siege ammunition]], [[trap]] components, and other objects. To build a forge, you must have one [[block]] and an [[anvil]]. If you embark without preparing carefully, you will start with one [[iron]] anvil. If you lose it or start without an anvil, you can often trade for one.<br />
<br />
It takes one unit of [[charcoal]] or [[coke]] to produce items on a forge, unless you use a [[magma forge]].<br />
<br />
== Weapons ==<br />
<br />
[[Weapons]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]], [[silver]] and [[adamantine]], for one [[metal]] [[bar]] each. The weapons that can be forged are:<br />
<br />
* [[Battle axe]]<br />
* [[War hammer]]<br />
* [[Short sword]]<br />
* [[Spear]]<br />
* [[Mace]]<br />
* [[Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Pick]]<br />
* [[Bolts]] (a stack of 25 will be produced)<br />
<br />
However, note that crossbows and picks cannot be forged out of silver.<br />
<br />
== Armor ==<br />
<br />
[[Armor]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]] and [[adamantine]]. Available armor types include:<br />
<br />
* [[Plate mail]] (3 [[metal]] bars)<br />
* [[Chain mail]] (2 metal [[bars]])<br />
* [[Greaves]] (2 metal bars)<br />
* [[Leggings]]<br />
* [[Helm]]<br />
* [[Cap]]<br />
* [[Gauntlet]]<br />
* [[High Boot]]<br />
* [[Low Boot]]<br />
* [[Shield]]<br />
* [[Buckler]]<br />
<br />
Each piece of armor requires one metal bar to forge, except where noted.<br />
<br />
== Furniture ==<br />
<br />
[[Furniture]] can forged from any non brittle metal -- in short, all [[metal]]s except for [[pig iron]] and [[Bismuth]]. You can forge:<br />
<br />
* [[Cage]]<br />
* [[Chain]] (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Animal trap]] (1 metal bar) (metalsmith must have [[Trapper|trapping]] labor enabled as well)<br />
* [[Bucket]] (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Barrel]]<br />
* [[Armor stand]]<br />
* Metal [[block]]s (1 metal bar)<br />
* [[Door]]<br />
* [[Floodgate]]<br />
* [[Hatch Cover]]<br />
* [[Grate]]<br />
* [[Statue]]<br />
* [[Cabinet]]<br />
* [[Chest]]<br />
* [[Throne]]<br />
* [[Sarcophagus]]<br />
* [[Table]]<br />
* [[Weapon rack]]<br />
* [[Bin]]<br />
* [[Pipe Section]]<br />
<br />
All metal furniture requires 3 [[bars]] to forge except for [[chain]]s, animal traps, buckets and blocks.<br />
<br />
== Siege Equipment ==<br />
<br />
[[Siege Equipment]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], [[bismuth bronze]], [[steel]], [[silver]] and [[adamantine]]. Only one piece of siege equipment can be forged: the [[ballista]] arrowhead, which requires 3 [[metal]] [[bars]]. These arrowheads must then be mated with a wooden [[log]] at a [[siege workshop]] to form a complete ballista [[bolt]]. It is also possible to make pure wooden ballista bolts at the siege workshop, which are assumed to do less damage. The [[siege engines]] themselves are also built at the siege workshop, out of three siege engine parts made of [[wood]].<br />
<br />
== Trap Components ==<br />
<br />
[[Trap]] components]] can be forged from [[copper]], [[iron]], [[bronze]], and [[steel]]. These include:<br />
<br />
* [[Giant axe blade]]<br />
* [[Enormous corkscrew]]<br />
* [[Spiked ball]]<br />
* [[Large, serrated disc]]<br />
* [[Menacing spike]]<br />
<br />
Note that each requires 2 [[bars]] of [[metal]] to forge.<br />
<br />
Corkscrews, menacing spikes and spiked balls can also be made from wood at a [[carpenter's shop]], requiring 1 log each.<br />
<br />
== Other Objects ==<br />
<br />
Other objects can be forged from all [[metal]]s except [[pig iron]]. They are:<br />
<br />
* [[Anvil]] ([[iron]], [[steel]] or [[adamantine]])<br />
* [[Craft]]s<br />
* [[Goblet]]<br />
* [[Toy]]<br />
* [[Instrument]]<br />
* [[Flask]]s<br />
* Minted [[Coins]]<br />
* [[Stud]] an item with metal<br />
<br />
Each of the above objects requires one bar of metal to make, including studding. Like other [[decorations]] (such as [[Jeweler's Workshop|encrusting with gems]], [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop|decorating with bone]] or [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop|decorating with shell]]), you cannot specify which object to stud: the smithy will generally take the nearest available object and stud it.<br />
<br />
In addition, 3 [[bars]] of either [[iron]] or [[steel]] can be used to forge [[anvil]]s, which are used in the construction of additional forges.<br />
<br />
== Metal Clothing ==<br />
<br />
[[Adamantine]] can be used to make anything, even lightweight clothing.<br />
All the clothing items that can be made at the [[clothier's shop]] can be forged from adamantine if you have it.<br />
<br />
== Skills Used ==<br />
<br />
* [[Metalsmith]]: All [[furniture]] except [[chain]]s and [[animal trap]]s; [[anvil]]s<br />
* [[Skills#Metal_Crafter|Metal Crafter]]: Chains; everything in the "all other objects" category except anvils.<br />
* [[Skills#Weaponsmith|Weaponsmith]]: All weapons and ammunition except for [[Crossbow|crossbows]]; [[Trap|trap components]]; [[siege equipment]]?<br />
* [[Skills#Bowyer|Bowyer]]: [[Crossbow|Crossbow]]<br />
* [[Skills#Armorsmith|Armorsmith]]: All [[armor]]<br />
* [[Skills#Trapper|Trapper]]: [[Animal trap]]s<br />
Note: This section is a work in progress; it needs further data and correction.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/guides/DF%20Metalcrafts%20Crib%20Sheet.htm Metalcrafts Cribsheet], (based on information on this page)<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category: Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Large_Serrated_Disc&diff=16771Large Serrated Disc2007-11-13T17:41:31Z<p>Peristarkawan: fixed double redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Large, serrated disc]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769540d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-13T17:41:00Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
OK, as far as I can tell, the game actually does use the comma universally. So I'm going to move this back if nobody objects. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:18, 11 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:41, 13 November 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1393340d:Large, serrated disc2007-11-13T17:40:11Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>A '''large, serrated disc''' is a [[trap component]] that can be mounted into [[weapon trap]]s. They deal large amounts of slashing [[Weapon#Weapon Stats|damage]], and have a tendency to sever their victims' limbs. While amusing, this can create several [[hauling]] tasks for dwarves as they have to move each severed body part to a [[butcher's shop]] or [[stockpile|refuse pile]].<br />
<br />
[[Category:Traps]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Large_serrated_disc&diff=2593340d:Large serrated disc2007-11-13T17:39:03Z<p>Peristarkawan: Large serrated disc moved to Large, serrated disc over redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Large, serrated disc]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769440d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-13T17:39:03Z<p>Peristarkawan: Talk:Large serrated disc moved to Talk:Large, serrated disc over redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
OK, as far as I can tell, the game actually does use the comma universally. So I'm going to move this back if nobody objects. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:18, 11 November 2007 (MST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1393240d:Large, serrated disc2007-11-13T17:39:03Z<p>Peristarkawan: Large serrated disc moved to Large, serrated disc over redirect</p>
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<div>A '''large serrated disc''' is a [[trap component]] that can be mounted into [[weapon trap]]s. They deal large amounts of slashing [[Weapon#Weapon Stats|damage]], and have a tendency to sever their victim's limbs. While amusing, this can create several hauling tasks for dwarves as they have to move each severed body part to a butcher's shop or refuse pile.<br />
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[[Category:Traps]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Bush&diff=2398540d:Bush2007-11-13T00:01:55Z<p>Peristarkawan: Whoops</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Shrub]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Bush&diff=2398440d:Bush2007-11-13T00:01:43Z<p>Peristarkawan: Replacing page with '#REDIRECT {{Shrub}}'</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT {{Shrub}}</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Shrub&diff=2379140d:Shrub2007-11-13T00:01:02Z<p>Peristarkawan: Merged content from Bush</p>
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<div>A '''shrub''' is a small [[plant]] that grows naturally, as opposed to a domesticated [[farm]] crop. They can be found all over the world in [[grass]]y areas, [[savanna]]s, [[desert]]s and [[mountain]]s. They will also sprout underground on [[mud]]dy [[rough cavern floor]] if there are spores in the air from an underground cave feature. Shrubs are instrumental for [[plant gathering]], and in environments with a significant amount of [[vegetation]] they can be an excellent supply of food. Gathering shrubs also serves to provide a supply of [[seed]]s for use in planting [[surface]] crops, such as [[longland grass]] and [[wild strawberry]].<br />
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==Harvesting==<br />
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Shrubs can be collected by dwarves with the [[herbalist]] labor enabled in order to produce plant items. Early on, shrubs are an essential source of plants for brewing and cooking, as well as seeds for growing on a [[farm plot]].<br />
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To collect plants, find green, healthy bushes &ndash; {{tile|"|#0f0|#000}} &ndash; rather than the dead or dried up brown ones &ndash; {{tile|"|#770|#000}} &ndash; and {{Key|d}}esignate them for {{Key|p}}lant gathering. Dwarves with the herbalist labor enabled and little else to do will rush out and start trying to gather plants. When an unskilled herbalist attempts to collect plants from a shrub, there is a high probability that he or she will fail to glean anything usable from it. There is usually plenty of available vegetation however, so designate a wide area and leave them to it. <br />
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Most plants collected from bushes can be brewed or cooked, and some can be used as [[dye]]s. Brewing or eating (but not cooking) plants will produce seeds, which can then be planted on outdoor farms in the proper [[biome]]. A [[stockpile]] should be created for storing the collected plants, or they will just be left outside to shrivel up in the sun. A general food stockpile will do, but a [[custom stockpile]] for specific plants will prevent the stockpile filling up with other junk.<br />
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==Extra information==<br />
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A shrub is a type of map tile, similar to [[tree]]s and [[wall]]s in that they are a state that can be designated for action, such as to be dug out or removed. They only occur naturally but tend to grow up very frequently during the year. <br />
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In [[Dwarf Fortress mode|fortress mode]], it is not possible to know what type of plant a shrub will produce until it has been harvested. In [[adventure mode]], however, all shrubs are clearly identifiable upon examination.<br />
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==See Also==<br />
* [[Farming]]<br />
* [[Tree]]s<br />
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[[Category:Agriculture]]<br />
[[Category:Map tiles]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:V&diff=25751Template:V2007-11-12T16:48:03Z<p>Peristarkawan: Don't use the template in the example</p>
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<div><includeonly>[[Category:Pages with dated info]]</includeonly><small><sup>v{{{1}}}</sup></small><noinclude><br />
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[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude></div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:V&diff=25750Template:V2007-11-12T16:46:21Z<p>Peristarkawan: Copy of Template:Version</p>
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<div><includeonly>[[Category:Pages with dated info]]</includeonly><small><sup>v{{{1}}}</sup></small><noinclude><br />
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[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude></div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal&diff=338Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Community Portal2007-11-12T16:41:50Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* We are doing this! Let us do it right. */ code tags are for browser formatting, not to duplicate the nowiki tag</p>
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<div>This page is for organizing the war effort against entropy.<br />
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== We are doing this! Let us do it right. ==<br />
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* '''A'''lphabet: OK, the first rule is that there must be a rule for each letter of the alphabet. Now only 6 rules to go. (Inspired by [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]'s [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic nomic] instincts)<br />
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* '''B'''lood line games: Any game, or story, relating to a [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. (succession) game should use the special Bloodline:article_name namespace. This has been especially created for all you bloodline fans to scribble onwards without tying up articles in the main namespace. <br />
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* '''C'''ategories: When editing a page, stop to think about what categories it should be included in, and add them if necessary. Don't forget to consider categories that don't yet exist.<br />
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* '''D'''iscussion: Use the discussion page to voice suggestions and to ask questions. Try to limit inline comments. Before editing, check the discussion page to see if there are any changes being planned.<br />
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* '''E'''dit If you see a mistake, be it a fact or a typo, change it. Don't leave it to someone else to clean up mistakes. Be bold, feel free to make changes. If you think an article needs a major rewrite, you can use your personal page or the discussion (talk) page to post edits or suggestions.<br />
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* '''F'''acts: Keep your information factual. If you haven't confirmed something, post it on the discussion page. Do not create one-liner pages without links (unless its a stub). Add as much pertinent information as you can and avoid conjecture (possibly, maybe, could be, likely) by providing concrete examples from the game or links to other parts of the wiki.<br />
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* '''G'''old. Always mine it, never let it leave your sight, sing songs about it whenever possible.<br />
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* '''H'''eadings: Organize the content of each page into sections of related information. After the introduction, use appropriate headings for each section, and follow the '''N'''aming style of this guide. Keep headings to a minimum, consider a list or a table if you have many repetitive facts.<br />
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* '''I'''mages: Images and screenshots should use the default [[tilesets]] for clarity. Small diagrams should be constructed with [[Template:RT]], for easy editing, and to save on space. Exceptions are pages ''about'' tilesets and story pages like [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. Images should always be in .png format. When uploading images, give them a name that is descriptive and unlikely to be duplicated. Names like "1", "screenshot", and "untitled" should be avoided.<br />
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* '''J'''ealousy: Don't be shocked if someone rewrites or removes your article, your hard work is not lost. Post up suggestions on the discussion page and talk about the issue. All versions are stored in the history, so theres always the chance your material can be reused or merged with existing content.<br />
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* '''K'''eys: Special to this wiki; Key commands from the game should be written using the [[:Template:K|k]] or [[:Template:Key|key]] templates. For example, the syntax <code><nowiki>{{k|q}}</nowiki></code> will generate {{k|q}}, a standardized and visually pleasing representation of the "q" key.<br />
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* '''L'''osing: is FUN! If something made you lose, include information about it. Others may want to try it out, or you may help someone avoid flooding their masterpiece fortress.<br />
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* '''M'''ore: More people should use the raw files (found in your 'install dir\raw\objects') to get information about creatures and objects. It has loads of good information, that the game actually uses.<br />
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* '''N'''aming: The titles of new pages should be <u>singular</u> nouns, with <u>only the first word capitalized</u>. Example: [[Screw pump]], [[Metalsmith's forge]], [[Gear assembly]]. The exceptions to these rules are for terms that are always plural and for proper nouns. Getting the wrong naming means extra redirects. Screw pump is ''not the same'' as Screw Pump.<br />
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* '''O''': ?<br />
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* '''P'''review: Use the preview button to check for typos. Avoid cluttering the history of a page with multiple edits. Mark small changes as 'minor' so they can be (optionally) hidden from the recent changes page.<br />
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* '''Q'''ueue: Check the special pages for work still to be done! There are lists of [[Special:Deadendpages|Dead end pages]]. [[Special:Uncategorizedcategories|Uncategorized categories]], [[Special:DoubleRedirects|Double redirects]], [[Special:BrokenRedirects|Broken redirects]], and [[Special:Specialpages|others]] that all need work occasionally. If you feel more like writing content than maintaining the wiki, the list of [[:Category:Stub|stub pages]] is a good place for you to start, followed by the [[Special:ShortPages|short pages]] that exist.<br />
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* '''R'''edundancy: Before creating a new page, do a search to find out if the topic is already discussed in detail somewhere else. If you find that redundant pages already exist, merge their content and have one redirect to the other.<br />
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* '''S'''tyle: In general, try to follow the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] when writing articles. For example, introduce keyword articles by highlighting the first keyword in bold, such as '''Rules'''. <br />
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* '''T'''imelessness: The wiki is intended as a guide for all players, even new ones. As such, references to differences from or similarities to old versions of DF should be reduced and eliminated, except on pages specifically dealing with said differences or similarities. Avoid phrases like "now marble can be used to make steel" or "before, farms required two floodgates", etc. For facts that are likely to change, or placeholder features, use [[Template:Version]]. For example, you might say, "[[Cave-in]]s are buggy right now{{version|0.27.169.33a}}" using the version template: <code><nowiki>{{version|0.27.169.33a}}</nowiki></code>.<br />
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* '''U'''ser pages: Introduce your self, let the community know who you are. If you have a comment on someone's actions on the wiki, praise or otherwise, post it on their talk page (and they'll get notified next time they login). However, keep this place civilized; avoid flamewars, personal attacks and insults.<br />
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* '''V'''erify: Its a new version of the game and many loosely based assumptions are floating around. Verify your information and be sure to check [[:Category:Articles_needing_further_verification]].<br />
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* '''W''': ?<br />
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* '''X''': ?<br />
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* '''Y''': ?<br />
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* '''Z''': ?<br />
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__TOC__<br />
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== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==<br />
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Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
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::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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How about this?<br />
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[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]<br />
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It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Redirects and article titles ==<br />
<br />
How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Tutorials ==<br />
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New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:[[Getting started]] will be just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Categories ==<br />
<br />
I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.<br />
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Deletion ==<br />
<br />
We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Water level style ==<br />
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I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Templates? ==<br />
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Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Forum references ==<br />
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Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Crops categories ==<br />
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My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.<br />
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Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Rule discussion == <br />
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=== A ===<br />
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How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.<br />
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:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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=== B and E ===<br />
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How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me<br />
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769340d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-12T00:53:11Z<p>Peristarkawan: fixed sig</p>
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<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
OK, as far as I can tell, the game actually does use the comma universally. So I'm going to move this back if nobody objects. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:18, 11 November 2007 (MST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769240d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-12T00:51:45Z<p>Peristarkawan: added sig</p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
OK, as far as I can tell, the game actually does use the comma universally. So I'm going to move this back if nobody objects. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:18, 11 November 2007 (MST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769140d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-11T19:18:25Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
OK, as far as I can tell, the game actually does use the comma universally. So I'm going to move this back if nobody objects.</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Quern&diff=316840d:Quern2007-11-11T18:47:15Z<p>Peristarkawan: Reverted buildings category to template</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Quern|key=q|job=Milling<br />
|construction=<br />
* Quern<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Milling]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Blade weed]]<br />
* [[Cave wheat]]<br />
* [[Dimple cup]]<br />
* [[Hide root]]<br />
* [[Longland grass]]<br />
* [[Sliver barb]]<br />
* [[Sweet pod]]<br />
* [[Whip vine]]<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]<br />
* [[Dwarven sugar]]<br />
* [[Longland flour]]<br />
* [[Whip vine flour]]<br />
* [[Dimple dye]]<br />
* [[Emerald dye]]<br />
* [[Redroot dye]]<br />
* [[Sliver dye]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''quern''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dye]]. Unlike a [[millstone]], it does not require a power source, using dwarven labor instead. That said, it is slower to produce the milled product unless the miller is moderately strong.<br />
<br />
It is currently unknown whether, like the [[screw pump]], long use will tire the dwarf using it.<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category:Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Millstone&diff=1206040d:Millstone2007-11-11T18:46:45Z<p>Peristarkawan: Reverted buildings category to template</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Millstone|key=M|job=Milling<br />
|construction=<br />
* Millstone<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Mechanic]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Blade weed]]<br />
* [[Cave wheat]]<br />
* [[Dimple cup]]<br />
* [[Hide root]]<br />
* [[Longland grass]]<br />
* [[Sliver barb]]<br />
* [[Sweet pod]]<br />
* [[Whip vine]]<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]<br />
* [[Dwarven sugar]]<br />
* [[Longland flour]]<br />
* [[Whip vine flour]]<br />
* [[Dimple dye]]<br />
* [[Emerald dye]]<br />
* [[Redroot dye]]<br />
* [[Sliver dye]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''millstone''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dye]]. To operate, it needs to be connected to a mechanical [[power]] source such as a [[water wheel]] or [[windmill]]. If none is available, a [[quern]] can be used instead.<br />
<br />
If the power to the millstone is interrupted, any jobs must be requeued when power is returned. Therefore it is best to have uninterrupted power or at least the ability to run it for a long period of time.<br />
<br />
The millstone workshop ({{k|b}}-{{k|w}}-{{k|M}}) must be built beside a powered [[gear assembly]] to function. It can't be powered directly from a horizontal [[axle]], but it can be powered directly from a vertical [[axle]].<br />
<br />
{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|+'''Basic watermill design'''<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|*<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
{|<br />
|+ '''Basic windmill design'''<br />
! Level -2<br />
! Level -1<br />
! Level 0<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|<<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|*<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|X<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|o<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|><br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Level -2 has the millstone built beside a gear assembly. <br /><br />
Level -1 has a vertical axle built over the gear assembly (first remove the floor by designating a channel). <br /><br />
Level 0 has the windmill (the center tile is above the vertical axle).<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category:Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Camel&diff=467440d:Camel2007-11-11T18:45:00Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Camels''' come in one-humped and two-humped varieties. They produce milk but cannot be [[milker|milked]] in the current version of the game.{{version|0.27.169.33a}} Like many animals, camels may not be available in your area.<br />
<br />
{{Creatures}}<br />
[[Category:Animals]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Bismuth&diff=1648640d:Bismuth2007-11-09T18:44:07Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Bismuth''' is a [[metal]] that can only be obtained by [[smelting]] [[bismuthinite]]. It can be [[alloy]]ed with [[tin]] and [[copper]] to create [[bismuth bronze]], a metal with properties identical to [[bronze]] (but slightly more valuable).<br />
<br />
[[category:metals]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Quern&diff=316740d:Quern2007-11-09T18:35:09Z<p>Peristarkawan: typo</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Quern|key=q|job=Milling<br />
|construction=<br />
* Quern<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Milling]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Blade weed]]<br />
* [[Cave wheat]]<br />
* [[Dimple cup]]<br />
* [[Hide root]]<br />
* [[Longland grass]]<br />
* [[Sliver barb]]<br />
* [[Sweet pod]]<br />
* [[Whip vine]]<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]<br />
* [[Dwarven sugar]]<br />
* [[Longland flour]]<br />
* [[Whip vine flour]]<br />
* [[Dimple dye]]<br />
* [[Emerald dye]]<br />
* [[Redroot dye]]<br />
* [[Sliver dye]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''quern''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dye]]. Unlike a [[millstone]], it does not require a power source, using dwarven labor instead. That said, it is slower to produce the milled product unless the miller is moderately strong.<br />
<br />
It is currently unknown whether, like the [[screw pump]], long use will tire the dwarf using it.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Buildings]]<br />
[[Category:Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Machine&diff=2256Machine2007-11-09T18:33:12Z<p>Peristarkawan: Added a link</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''machine''' is a composite construction that can be created by linking together one or more [[:Category:machine components|machine components]], which can be accessed from the {{k|b}}uild &rarr; {{k|M}}achine components menu. Currently, machines are very limited in function; their most notable usage is for pumping [[water]].<br />
<br />
== Power generators ==<br />
<br />
[[Windmill]]s {{k|m}} and [[water wheel]]s {{k|w}} are machine components that provide power. Power generators can be chained together using axles to combine power. Additionally, water wheels can be combined by placing them adjacent to one another in parallel, thereby requiring no extra materials to perform the linkage.<br />
<br />
== Uses for power ==<br />
<br />
Currently, the [[screw pump]] {{k|s}} is the only machine component that consumes power to achieve a purpose. A [[millstone]] also requires power to operate, although it is classified as a [[workshop]] rather than a machine component.<br />
<br />
Screw pumps can also be operated using dwarf labor in place of mechanical power. The millstone likewise has an unpowered alternative, the [[quern]].<br />
<br />
== Power conduits ==<br />
<br />
A [[gear assembly]] {{k|g}} is used to link multiple machine components together. Additionally, a gear assembly can be linked to [[lever]]s and pressure plates, which can then be used to disengage the gearbox from any linked items. For example, screw pumps can be switched on and off in this way.<br />
<br />
[[Axle]]s are used to transport power over a distance. A horizontal axle {{k|h}} transports power within a [[z-level]], while a vertical axle {{k|v}} transports power across z-levels.</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Quern&diff=316640d:Quern2007-11-09T18:26:48Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Quern|key=q|job=Milling<br />
|construction=<br />
* Quern<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Milling]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Blade weed]]<br />
* [[Cave wheat]]<br />
* [[Dimple cup]]<br />
* [[Hide root]]<br />
* [[Longland grass]]<br />
* [[Sliver barb]]<br />
* [[Sweet pod]]<br />
* [[Whip vine]]<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]<br />
* [[Dwarven sugar]]<br />
* [[Longland flour]]<br />
* [[Whip vine flour]]<br />
* [[Dimple dye]]<br />
* [[Emerald dye]]<br />
* [[Redroot dye]]<br />
* [[Sliver dye]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''quern''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dy]]e. Unlike a [[millstone]], it does not require a power source, using dwarven labor instead. That said, it is slower to produce the milled product unless the miller is moderately strong.<br />
<br />
It is currently unknown whether, like the [[screw pump]], long use will tire the dwarf using it.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Buildings]]<br />
[[Category:Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Peristarkawan&diff=10597User talk:Peristarkawan2007-11-09T18:21:29Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi there.<br />
<br />
I just have another question about titles, thought I could take them here so we dont clutter that page. As I interpret the current title rule, every noun that can be a plural should be a plural. Is this correct? In that case, [[Plant]], for example, should be moved to [[Plants]].<br />
<br />
Feel free to respond either here or on my talk and to delete it when were done.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:41, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:It should only be plural if it's always used in the plural. So it should be [[Barracks]] instead of [[Barrack]], because that word is virtually always used in the plural, and [[Gold nuggets]] rather than [[Gold nugget]], because nuggets are always plural in the context of the game. Otherwise, it should be singular, so [[Plant]] is correct.<br />
:The case that's borderline to me is articles that are just lists of things, such as [[Workshops]]. In that case, I think we should probably adopt the Wikipedia convention and call it [[List of workshops]]; then [[Workshop]] could be generically about workshops without including a list. -- [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:52, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Nice, could you format i nice rule about that? Or extend the current one?<br />
<br />
<br />
Were you on TinyTIM by any chance? -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 14:32, 21 August 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As a matter of fact I was, although I haven't logged on there in a very long time. &ndash; [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:02, 27 August 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool. I used to be Shrooms there. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 13:20, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I remember you. :-) -- [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:21, 9 November 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Millstone&diff=1205940d:Millstone2007-11-09T18:18:15Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Workshop|name=Millstone|key=M|job=Milling<br />
|construction=<br />
* Millstone<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Mechanic]]<br />
|use=<br />
* [[Blade weed]]<br />
* [[Cave wheat]]<br />
* [[Dimple cup]]<br />
* [[Hide root]]<br />
* [[Longland grass]]<br />
* [[Sliver barb]]<br />
* [[Sweet pod]]<br />
* [[Whip vine]]<br />
|production=<br />
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]<br />
* [[Dwarven sugar]]<br />
* [[Longland flour]]<br />
* [[Whip vine flour]]<br />
* [[Dimple dye]]<br />
* [[Emerald dye]]<br />
* [[Redroot dye]]<br />
* [[Sliver dye]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''millstone''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dye]]. To operate, it needs to be connected to a mechanical [[power]] source such as a [[water wheel]] or [[windmill]]. If none is available, a [[quern]] can be used instead.<br />
<br />
If the power to the millstone is interrupted, any jobs must be requeued when power is returned. Therefore it is best to have uninterrupted power or at least the ability to run it for a long period of time.<br />
<br />
The millstone workshop ({{k|b}}-{{k|w}}-{{k|M}}) must be built beside a powered [[gear assembly]] to function. It can't be powered directly from a horizontal [[axle]], but it can be powered directly from a vertical [[axle]].<br />
<br />
{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|+'''Basic watermill design'''<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|*<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
{|<br />
|+ '''Basic windmill design'''<br />
! Level -2<br />
! Level -1<br />
! Level 0<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|<<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|*<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|X<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|o<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|><br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|-<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Level -2 has the millstone built beside a gear assembly. <br /><br />
Level -1 has a vertical axle built over the gear assembly (first remove the floor by designating a channel). <br /><br />
Level 0 has the windmill (the center tile is above the vertical axle).<br />
<br />
[[Category:Buildings]]<br />
[[Category:Workshops]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Hidden_fun_stuff&diff=24267Hidden fun stuff2007-11-09T17:04:17Z<p>Peristarkawan: Fixed double redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Easter eggs]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Easter_Eggs&diff=24650Easter Eggs2007-11-09T17:03:54Z<p>Peristarkawan: Easter Eggs moved to Easter eggs: Title decapitalization</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Easter eggs]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Easter_eggs&diff=2408840d:Easter eggs2007-11-09T17:03:54Z<p>Peristarkawan: Easter Eggs moved to Easter eggs: Title decapitalization</p>
<hr />
<div>This page is a list of hidden or unexpected aspects of the game.<br />
<br />
=== Fluctuating Subtitle ===<br />
When starting up the game, on the title screen where the player first chooses what to do, the top reads:<br />
<pre><br />
Slaves to Armok: God of Blood<br />
Chapter 2: Dwarf Fortress<br />
Histories of ...<br />
</pre><br />
'...' will be generated each time the game is opened. Some combinations include "Histories of Avarice and Resourcefulness" and "Histories of Jealousy and Tenacity."<br />
<br />
[[Category:Stub]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1769040d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-09T16:59:13Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh, and "iron battle axe" is a different case, because "battle" isn't an adjective; rather, "battle axe" is a compound word (dictionary.com actually lists it as "battle-axe"...wonder if we should change it). ;-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:59, 9 November 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1768940d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-09T16:56:46Z<p>Peristarkawan: fixed sig</p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:56, 9 November 2007 (EST)</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Large,_serrated_disc&diff=1768840d Talk:Large, serrated disc2007-11-09T16:56:27Z<p>Peristarkawan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Is that the right name? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 20:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My feeling is that it should be titled the way it would be used in a sentence, for easy linking. Independent adjectives modifying the same noun are normally separated by a comma, so the title should have the comma as well. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 20:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I thought in the game it was called "large serrated disc". It's not adjectives modifying a noun so much as the name of an object, in the same way as "iron battle axe" is the name of a game object. If I linked to it, I would link it with this title. The old wiki also used this title [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Large_Serrated_Disc]. We don't have to go by the old wiki, but this title makes sense to me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::As far as I'm concerned, the way the game writes it is incorrect. :-) --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 22:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Also, I noticed that the raw file uses "large, serrated" for the adjective. I'm assuming this means it shows up '''somewhere''' in the game as "large, serrated disc" (in the dwarves' preferences maybe), but I haven't had a chance to actively look for it. --~~</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal&diff=334Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Community Portal2007-11-09T16:52:36Z<p>Peristarkawan: /* We are doing this! Let us do it right. */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page is for organizing the war effort against entropy.<br />
<br />
== We are doing this! Let us do it right. ==<br />
<br />
* '''A'''lphabet: OK, the first rule is that there must be a rule for each letter of the alphabet. Now only 7 rules to go. (Inspired by [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]'s [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic nomic] instincts)<br />
<br />
* '''B'''lood line games: Any game, or story, relating to a [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. (succession) game should use the special Bloodline:article_name namespace. This has been especially created for all you bloodline fans to scribble onwards without tying up articles in the main namespace. <br />
<br />
* '''C'''ategories: When editing a page, stop to think about what categories it should be included in, and add them if necessary. Don't forget to consider categories that don't yet exist.<br />
<br />
* '''D'''iscussion: Use the discussion page to voice suggestions and to ask questions. Try to limit inline comments. Before editing, check the discussion page to see if there are any changes being planned.<br />
<br />
* '''E'''dit If you see a mistake, be it a fact or a typo, change it. Don't leave it to someone else to clean up mistakes. Be bold, feel free to make changes. If you think an article needs a major rewrite, you can use your personal page or the discussion (talk) page to post edits or suggestions.<br />
<br />
* '''F'''acts: Keep your information factual. If you haven't confirmed something, post it on the discussion page. Do not create one-liner pages without links (unless its a stub). Add as much pertinent information as you can and avoid conjecture (possibly, maybe, could be, likely) by providing concrete examples from the game or links to other parts of the wiki.<br />
<br />
* '''G'''old. Always mine it, never let it leave your sight, sing songs about it whenever possible.<br />
<br />
* '''H'''eadings: Organize the content of each page into sections of related information. After the introduction, use appropriate headings for each section, and follow the '''N'''aming style of this guide. Keep headings to a minimum, consider a list or a table if you have many repetitive facts.<br />
<br />
* '''I'''mages: Images and screenshots should use the default [[tilesets]] for clarity. Small diagrams should be constructed with [[Template:RT]], for easy editing, and to save on space. Exceptions are pages ''about'' tilesets and story pages like [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. Images should always be in .png format. When uploading images, give them a name that is descriptive and unlikely to be duplicated. Names like "1", "screenshot", and "untitled" should be avoided.<br />
<br />
* '''J'''ealousy: Don't be shocked if someone rewrites or removes your article, your hard work is not lost. Post up suggestions on the discussion page and talk about the issue. All versions are stored in the history, so theres always the chance your material can be reused or merged with existing content.<br />
<br />
* '''K'''eys: Special to this wiki; Key commands from the game should be written using the [[:Template:K|k]] or [[:Template:Key|key]] templates. For example, the syntax <code><nowiki>{{k|q}}</nowiki></code> will generate {{k|q}}, a standardized and visually pleasing representation of the "q" key.<br />
<br />
* '''L''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''M'''ore: More people should use the raw files (found in your 'install dir\raw\objects') to get information about creatures and objects. It has loads of good information, that the game actually uses.<br />
<br />
* '''N'''aming: The titles of new pages should be <u>singular</u> nouns, with <u>only the first word capitalized</u>. Example: [[Screw pump]], [[Metalsmith's forge]], [[Gear assembly]]. The exceptions to these rules are for terms that are always plural and for proper nouns. Getting the wrong naming means extra redirects. Screw pump is ''not the same'' as Screw Pump.<br />
<br />
* '''O''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''P'''review: Use the preview button to check for typos. Avoid cluttering the history of a page with multiple edits. Mark small changes as 'minor' so they can be (optionally) hidden from the recent changes page.<br />
<br />
* '''Q'''ueue: Check the special pages for work still to be done! There are lists of [[Special:Deadendpages|Dead end pages]]. [[Special:Uncategorizedcategories|Uncategorized categories]], [[Special:DoubleRedirects|Double redirects]], [[Special:BrokenRedirects|Broken redirects]], and [[Special:Specialpages|others]] that all need work occasionally. If you feel more like writing content than maintaining the wiki, the list of [[:Category:Stub|stub pages]] is a good place for you to start, followed by the [[Special:ShortPages|short pages]] that exist.<br />
<br />
* '''R'''edundancy: Before creating a new page, do a search to find out if the topic is already discussed in detail somewhere else. If you find that redundant pages already exist, merge their content and have one redirect to the other.<br />
<br />
* '''S'''tyle: In general, try to follow the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] when writing articles. For example, introduce keyword articles by highlighting the first keyword in bold, such as '''Rules'''. <br />
<br />
* '''T'''imelessness: The wiki is intended as a guide for all players, even new ones. As such, references to differences from or similarities to old versions of DF should be reduced and eliminated, except on pages specifically dealing with said differences or similarities. Avoid phrases like "now marble can be used to make steel" or "before, farms required two floodgates", etc. For facts that are likely to change, or placeholder features, use [[Template:Version]]. For example, you might say, "[[Cave-in]]s are buggy right now{{version|0.27.169.33a}}" using the <nowiki>version template, {{version|0.27.169.33a}}</nowiki>.<br />
<br />
* '''U'''ser pages: Introduce your self, let the community know who you are. If you have a comment on someone's actions on the wiki, praise or otherwise, post it on their talk page (and they'll get notified next time they login). However, keep this place civilized; avoid flamewars, personal attacks and insults.</strike><br />
<br />
* '''V''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''W''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''X''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''Y''': ?<br />
<br />
* '''Z''': ?<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==<br />
<br />
Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
How about this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]<br />
<br />
It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Redirects and article titles ==<br />
<br />
How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Tutorials ==<br />
<br />
New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:[[Getting started]] will be just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Categories ==<br />
<br />
I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.<br />
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Deletion ==<br />
<br />
We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Water level style ==<br />
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I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Templates? ==<br />
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Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Forum references ==<br />
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Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Crops categories ==<br />
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My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.<br />
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Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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== Rule discussion == <br />
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=== A ===<br />
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How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.<br />
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:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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=== B and E ===<br />
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How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me<br />
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Ballista&diff=23428Ballista2007-11-08T06:32:33Z<p>Peristarkawan: Fix double redirect</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Siege engine]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Siege_Engines&diff=23612Siege Engines2007-11-08T06:31:44Z<p>Peristarkawan: Siege Engines moved to Siege engine: Title correction</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Siege engine]]</div>Peristarkawanhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Siege_engine&diff=2350240d:Siege engine2007-11-08T06:31:44Z<p>Peristarkawan: Siege Engines moved to Siege engine: Title correction</p>
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<div>'''Siege engines''' include the '''catapult''' and the '''ballista'''. Both are formidable weapons of tremendous range (more than a screen-width) and capable of dealing out horrendous damage. A ballista arrow means immediate death to each and every common creature in its path and will severely injure even a dragon.<br />
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==Building Siege Engines==<br />
In order to build a siege engine, you first need to produce three catapult or ballista parts in the [[Siege Workshop]]; you may then build the respective siege engine like any other building. Both tasks require the "Siege Engineering" labor and use the "Engineer" skill. It is not known whether the skill of the dwarf assembling the siege engine has any effect, but the quality of the parts certainly has: siege engines put together from masterpiece parts have a much higher rate of fire and accuracy.<br />
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The assembled siege engine is, effectively, a 3x3 building. It cannot be moved about other than by taking it down and re-assembling it at the new site. Siege engines do not impede movement, though, so you don't have to worry about building them in a corridor.<br />
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==Using Siege Engines (simple)==<br />
{{key|o}} will let you change the orientation, whether the siege engine is pointing up / down / left / right. This takes effect immediately, it does not require a dwarf to come and turn the engine.<br />
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{{key|f}} toggles the current status between:<br />
*Not In Use: Dwarves with the Siege Operator job will reload unloaded engines and leave them unattended.<br />
*Prepare to Fire: Siege Operators will load the engine and remain stationed for further commands.<br />
*Fire at Will: Siege Operators will fire and load normally.<br />
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The dwarves will (re-)load any siege engines that are not currently loaded; there's no way to prevent this short of disabling the labor on all dwarves. Ballistae require ''ballista arrows'' (made from wooden logs at the siege workshop, optionally tipped with metal ''ballista arrow heads'' made at a forge). Catapults use simple [[stone]] as ammunition.<br />
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Ammo is destroyed upon being fired, so you can't use catapults for fast stone hauling. They are, however, perfect for clearing away unwanted stone.<br />
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==Using Siege Engines (advanced)==<br />
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===Safety Warning===<br />
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'''Ballistas will kill anything in their path!''' Ballista arrows appear to hit any units in any square that the head passes through. They are incredibly devastatingly dangerous weapons, and should never be used with friendlies anywhere in their cone of fire, including the space the ballista arrowhead occupies when loaded on the engine. Always designate a restricted traffic cone for a dozen or so tiles along the firing arc and keep dwarves out of the area.<br />
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Surprisingly, catapults are relatively safe. Catapult operators will target enemies (and wild animals) if there are any in their field of fire. If not, they will loose the shot in a high arc that misses everything. It is perfectly safe to operate a catapult in the cave: just point it at a nearby wall of solid rock. A nice side effect is that this will in due time clear the whole area of stone.<br />
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Using catapults to shoot into the open may provide some meat: as said above, the operators will target animals if there are any. However, elephants don't take nicely if you slay some of them. You also have a slight risk of killing your own dwarves or caravan escorts if they happen to be hunting the selfsame animal (and hence is close to it).<br />
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===Placement===<br />
Siege engines can almost only shoot at targets right in front of them on the same Z-level. The target may deviate only slightly, as the field of fire is about 20-30 degrees wide. Because of the huge blind spots, it is advisable to prepare the position so that the enemy will be channeled through the field of fire.<br />
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Siege operators are civilians! They will drop their work and run if the enemy comes too close. <!--fixme: how close? will fortifications help?--> You should therefore place the engines behind a moat that will keep the enemy at a safe distance, or shield access to their location in some other fashion.<br />
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Siege engines can shoot through [[fortifications]]. As fortifications appear provide some protection against incoming bolts and arrows, it's usually a good idea to protect the piece in that way. It only does need a one tile wide fortification to shoot out.<br />
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===Skill and Quality===<br />
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The quality of the siege engine parts affects the engine's accuracy and reload time. It is not known whether the siege engine itself also can be of a certain quality. The quality and material of the ammunition (in case of ballista arrows) affects the damage and possibly accuracy as well.<br />
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The only way of obtaining high-quality siege engine parts is to have them made by a trained engineer; the only way to train an engineer is to make parts or ammunition. Assembling and disassembling siege engines does not train the engineer skill. Dwarves will occasionally produce masterpieces long before reaching [[Legendary]] skill level, but be prepared to waste hundreds of logs until you have three masterpiece parts. Bringing an engineer to [[Experience|Proficient]] level (the highest you could buy when starting a new fortress) will take about 120 logs. Becoming Legendary requires the wood of 600 trees.<br />
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The operator skill may affect accuracy; it certainly affects reload time. It will take a whole month for an unskilled dwarf to load a catapult; a Legendary operator with nearby ammo will get several shots at a running enemy.<br />
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Operators are best trained on catapults, as these require nothing but cheap stone for ammo. It is recommended to have a number of dedicated operators that will follow no other line of work, and enough catapults for all of them to play with. As they're often going for a drink or sleep, you may get along with three catapults for four operators, and even two pieces would go a long way. Since the dwarf must hold the heavy stone in his inventory during the entire loading procedure, dwarves that have increased their strength statistic load catapults much more rapidly than others, making them good candidates for operator duty. You should start training early: it can take one year for an operator to become Proficient, and two more years until he finally reaches Legendary level; by then he will have spent 300 rounds. <br />
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Loading ballista arrows seems to be much faster than loading catapults, probably due to the much lighter weight of the projectile.<br />
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An alternative approach is cross-training any highly-skilled dwarves who aren't doing anything useful at the moment. With a couple levels each in strength and agility, a decent-quality catapult, and an ample supply of ammunition nearby, a dwarf can become a Legendary siege operator within a few seasons at most, giving more flexibility in defense and several more levels for the fortunate dwarf. Rotating Legendary miners out to siege-operation and then to stone-hauling duties sets up an efficient cycle.<br />
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===In Battle===<br />
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Ballistas hit any unit that the ballista arrowhead passes through. This makes them an order of magnitude more effective in combat than catapults, which fire in an arc that hits only a few tiles per shot and is nearly useless against anything smaller than a troop of goblins.<br />
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A siege engine you want to use for actual defense should be not set to fire at will, as this likely means that it's not loaded and ready at the time you actually need it. You should train your operators on other pieces.<br />
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When the time comes, switch off all training engines and set all of the ones you'll be using to prepare to fire so the operators will be on-station; if some of them are currently not loaded, designate them to be disassembled so to prevent your operators from loading the training weapons instead of firing the real ones.<br />
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Remember, operators are civilians. They do not care that the fortress is at stake: hunger, thirst and sleep always go first. That's why you trained more operators than you actually need; that's also why you disabled all other work that might distract them. The most effective way to ensure that your operators won't run off is to lock them in with the siege engine when the time comes.<br />
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[[Category:Buildings]]<br />
[[Category:Fortress_Defense]]<br />
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===The Hopoate Doctrine=== <br />
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Forums user John Hopoate has written this guide to the effective construction and operation of siege engines: <br />
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Please bear in mind that this is VERY long term stuff (10 years). Only by having highly trained siege operators and high quality siege weapons can you shoot accurately. <br />
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* Download LabourDF from here:<br />
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http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Utilities#LabourDF<br />
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* Start off with two miners and a woodcutter trained to proficient siege engineer status (the latter costs many starting points so choose your other starting gear and stats wisely) <br />
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* After your fortress has about 50 dwarfs, build a siege workshop, place it at the front of your fort near the battlements and designate a custom stockpile within the battlements that can take only ballista arrows. Designate another custom stockpile that can take only regular stone. <br />
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* Give your woodcutter dwarfs a custom name (like WOOD) and set their job orders to exclude siege engineering. Change the job orders of your siege engineer dwarf to nothing but siege engineering. <br />
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* You'll need wood, lots of wood. <br />
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* Get the siege engineer dwarf to build 18 catapult parts, place them inside behind fortifications (which catapults CAN shoot through), designate a custom stockpile of regular stone within the battlements. <br />
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* Train six dwarves to legendary status with mining or another fast-training skill, their high attributes are absolutely necessary for siege operating. All operators should have no job orders other than their stat-training and siege operating. When there is no mining to be done, set six catapults to "fire at will" <br />
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* After the catapult parts are done, get the siege engineer dwarf to build about 100 wooden ballista arrows, don't bother with metal arrowheads as they'll use 3 pieces of bronze each and that certainly adds up. <br />
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* Now that his skill is at a high level, your siege engineer dwarf should be able to build superior quality (*) siege engine parts with about a 75% success rate. Build about 40 catapult parts and 40 ballista parts. <br />
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* Build ten catapults and ten ballistas with a MINIMUM of superior quality (*) components in an alternating sequence along your well stocked battlements. Chasm any inferior components. <br />
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* By this point your miners/operators should be at a high level of skill, possibly legendary. This gives your superior quality weapons a devastatingly high rate of fire and awesome accuracy.</div>Peristarkawan