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Editing v0.31 Talk:Well
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==Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE== | ==Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE== | ||
Two quote the contaminant page: | Two quote the contaminant page: | ||
− | Water that | + | Water that {{l|flow|flows}} over contaminants can pick them up and redistribute them as the water moves. Water does not appear to move mud, although mud will be created any time water covers a tile. The mechanics of redistributing contaminants using water is not well understood although there have been some observations of strange behavior when mixing blood and water. |
And I can speak from experience, I have NEVER seen water move mud. I'm even running tests of it in my well guide fortress, there's no signs of any mud contaminating the water. The dwarves are fine with the water coming out of a well situated directly over a pile of mud. Whoever is making these claims about filtering mud with grates and bars needs to lurk (and experiment) moar. Even if mud were a functioning contaminant like blood, water just makes more mud as soon as it touches a floor tile, which means ALL water would be eternally muddy! Even after being "filtered" through a grate! --Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC) | And I can speak from experience, I have NEVER seen water move mud. I'm even running tests of it in my well guide fortress, there's no signs of any mud contaminating the water. The dwarves are fine with the water coming out of a well situated directly over a pile of mud. Whoever is making these claims about filtering mud with grates and bars needs to lurk (and experiment) moar. Even if mud were a functioning contaminant like blood, water just makes more mud as soon as it touches a floor tile, which means ALL water would be eternally muddy! Even after being "filtered" through a grate! --Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC) | ||
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:::Really? I was just now playing an adventurer, trying to get to a river/brook... and when I finally found a way down to a brook, and tried drinking from it ({{k|e}}), it '''was''' stagnant. Lemme jump an adventurer into a river to see whether that's stagnant too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | :::Really? I was just now playing an adventurer, trying to get to a river/brook... and when I finally found a way down to a brook, and tried drinking from it ({{k|e}}), it '''was''' stagnant. Lemme jump an adventurer into a river to see whether that's stagnant too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | ||
::::Just created a new adventurer, found a brook and stood on top of it, and both my {{K|e}}at and f{{K|i}}ll waterskin menus listed "water" rather than "stagnant water". The same was true for a river. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | ::::Just created a new adventurer, found a brook and stood on top of it, and both my {{K|e}}at and f{{K|i}}ll waterskin menus listed "water" rather than "stagnant water". The same was true for a river. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | ||
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:::::I'm pretty sure adventure mode treats water differently than dwarf mode. We've always been able to fill waterskins from murky pools without trouble, even before the contaminants got added, but dwarves have always had a distaste for water drawn through a well over a murky pool or brook tile. Again, even before contaminants were set up, back when salt water was shown by not allowing you to designate open water as a water source area. It was based on what kind of tile the well was situated over, and simply digging one tile out from the side of a pool or brook made the water perfectly fine if drawn from that location with a well. There's a good chance that this is still the case, because if you do dig a new tile for water to flow into, it isn't exactly sitting stagnant any more, is it? I've been testing it, and yeah, it still works. And really, stagnation wouldn't make sense as a contaminant anyways, it's a lack of movement, not a material. --Kydo 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | :::::I'm pretty sure adventure mode treats water differently than dwarf mode. We've always been able to fill waterskins from murky pools without trouble, even before the contaminants got added, but dwarves have always had a distaste for water drawn through a well over a murky pool or brook tile. Again, even before contaminants were set up, back when salt water was shown by not allowing you to designate open water as a water source area. It was based on what kind of tile the well was situated over, and simply digging one tile out from the side of a pool or brook made the water perfectly fine if drawn from that location with a well. There's a good chance that this is still the case, because if you do dig a new tile for water to flow into, it isn't exactly sitting stagnant any more, is it? I've been testing it, and yeah, it still works. And really, stagnation wouldn't make sense as a contaminant anyways, it's a lack of movement, not a material. --Kydo 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC) | ||
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==Wells DO NOT clean water== | ==Wells DO NOT clean water== | ||
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:You can't have stagnant water in a bucket. That's one of the best methods of eliminating the status of "stagnant". Water is considered stagnant when it's sitting on a brook or murky pool tile. That is the only deciding factor. At first, I thought people were just mixing up "mud" and "blood", but it's clearly so consistent, that there is no mistake. Also, where in the stocks page does it list water? Is it's quantity in the billion-gazillions? Now, if your well is full of ''blood'', THAT is a big difference. Blood will have an impact, as it is a genuine contaminant that will flow with water.--Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC) | :You can't have stagnant water in a bucket. That's one of the best methods of eliminating the status of "stagnant". Water is considered stagnant when it's sitting on a brook or murky pool tile. That is the only deciding factor. At first, I thought people were just mixing up "mud" and "blood", but it's clearly so consistent, that there is no mistake. Also, where in the stocks page does it list water? Is it's quantity in the billion-gazillions? Now, if your well is full of ''blood'', THAT is a big difference. Blood will have an impact, as it is a genuine contaminant that will flow with water.--Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC) | ||
:: People often go by what they "know to be true" from previous versions or things they have heard or read. I'm just reporting what I have actually seen. I had read that well clean water, so I was surprised to read the stock page and find only "stagnant water" listed in my stocks. Looking at injured dwarves, I saw they had all complained about the water quality. | :: People often go by what they "know to be true" from previous versions or things they have heard or read. I'm just reporting what I have actually seen. I had read that well clean water, so I was surprised to read the stock page and find only "stagnant water" listed in my stocks. Looking at injured dwarves, I saw they had all complained about the water quality. | ||
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Look under "liquids" in the stock page. You are playing a .31 version, right? Liquids have been in the stock pages a while. You may also see other fun liquids listed, like magma, or stuff magma has melted. The quantity of water listed is usually in the dozens. Buckets seem to hold five or ten units of water. Blood will not have an impact, blood does not make water stagnant. FB blood might make dwarves sick though. However, I have determined, mud is not the contaminant that makes water stagnant. It must be an invisible contaminant. Cleaned water will still make mud. Water that has passed through a grate and picked up mud from another source is still clean. Wells will not clean water. Buckets will not clean water. This may be new behavior, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just look. | Look under "liquids" in the stock page. You are playing a .31 version, right? Liquids have been in the stock pages a while. You may also see other fun liquids listed, like magma, or stuff magma has melted. The quantity of water listed is usually in the dozens. Buckets seem to hold five or ten units of water. Blood will not have an impact, blood does not make water stagnant. FB blood might make dwarves sick though. However, I have determined, mud is not the contaminant that makes water stagnant. It must be an invisible contaminant. Cleaned water will still make mud. Water that has passed through a grate and picked up mud from another source is still clean. Wells will not clean water. Buckets will not clean water. This may be new behavior, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just look. | ||
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::::Yes, the tile above a ramp counts as open space. You can build wells, grates, hatches etc on downward ramps, even if there's water below. | ::::Yes, the tile above a ramp counts as open space. You can build wells, grates, hatches etc on downward ramps, even if there's water below. | ||
:::::Yes, a well will work over top of a ramp. Ramps act like an empty tile with a special function applied. So if all you have is a hole in the ground with a ramp in it, full of water, the well will still work there. But because a ramp requires ground to be built upon, you can't dig out anywhere below said ramp, so you can't exactly have much of a reservoir if you do that. Basically all it means is that having a ramp at the bottom of your well does nothing to the functionality of a well. But staircases still interrupt functionality should they be at or above the water level. --Kydo 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC) | :::::Yes, a well will work over top of a ramp. Ramps act like an empty tile with a special function applied. So if all you have is a hole in the ground with a ramp in it, full of water, the well will still work there. But because a ramp requires ground to be built upon, you can't dig out anywhere below said ramp, so you can't exactly have much of a reservoir if you do that. Basically all it means is that having a ramp at the bottom of your well does nothing to the functionality of a well. But staircases still interrupt functionality should they be at or above the water level. --Kydo 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
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== Can creatures come up through wells? == | == Can creatures come up through wells? == | ||
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::Regarding dwarfs drinking forbidden alcohol: did you forbid the barrel or the alcohol inside? Forbidding a barrel will not stop dwarfs from drinking or eating what is inside. It's the same with other containers. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC) | ::Regarding dwarfs drinking forbidden alcohol: did you forbid the barrel or the alcohol inside? Forbidding a barrel will not stop dwarfs from drinking or eating what is inside. It's the same with other containers. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::I forbade both the barrel and the alcohol inside. They'd still drink it. And then I forgot to unforbid it when I told them to haul it underground, and they wouldn't do that. It was actually rather a pain in the butt, and I could have avoided it entirely if I'd just not started with any alcohol. Not like I started the fortress to actually PLAY it... --Kydo 19:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC) | :::I forbade both the barrel and the alcohol inside. They'd still drink it. And then I forgot to unforbid it when I told them to haul it underground, and they wouldn't do that. It was actually rather a pain in the butt, and I could have avoided it entirely if I'd just not started with any alcohol. Not like I started the fortress to actually PLAY it... --Kydo 19:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
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