Vampire - Revision history

108.85.197.99: /* Non-visual identification */ DFText /red

2026-03-03T06:03:12Z

Non-visual identification: DFText /red

King Mir at 04:03, 3 March 2026

2026-03-03T04:03:26Z

GeloMor at 06:07, 11 December 2025

2025-12-11T06:07:53Z

172.92.76.77: /* Identification */ Update links to relevant skill pages (social skill, combat skill) and adjust body text for grammar.

2025-11-25T13:50:43Z

Identification: Update links to relevant skill pages (social skill, combat skill) and adjust body text for grammar.

Ziusudra: /* Description */ added difficulty mention and links

2025-06-09T05:51:33Z

Description: added difficulty mention and links

DPhKraken: Replaced extracted raws with script

2025-02-27T04:25:35Z

Replaced extracted raws with script

Lethosor: /* Uses / rephrase again. "foodless" means "does not have* food", not "does not eat"

2025-01-02T05:13:18Z

Uses: rephrase again. "foodless" means "does not *have* food", not "does not eat"

Silverwing235: /* Becoming a vampire */

2025-01-02T02:39:49Z

Becoming a vampire

Silverwing235: /* Uses */ NetHack, again

2025-01-02T02:35:00Z

Uses: NetHack, again

DPhKraken: /* Playing as a vampire */ Keybind icons

2024-12-22T20:37:11Z

Playing as a vampire: Keybind icons

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 Their [[Personality trait|personality]] can also be scrutinized for abnormalities. Their biographies may indicate that they "have the appearance of somebody who is (x) years old," a very good indicator of a vampire in cases where they have too many children - or too many civilization associations - to be that young. As vampires do not eat, sleep, or drink, they will never have recent thoughts about meals, drinks, beds, dining rooms, or chairs, leaving their thoughts especially bare and suspicious. In the case of vampires who have been in the fort for a while, a comment may be added to the effect that "s/he could really use a drink," "s/he has not had a drink in far, far too long," or "can't even remember the last time s/he had some." This is an indicator that they need blood. In any case, if alcohol is available, it makes an excellent distinguishing mark. However, [[tavern]] keepers may give a vampire alcohol which they will then drink.{{verify}} In addition to the brevity of surface thoughts, if you were unfortunate enough to have a dwarf die to a vampire, the culprit will have the "took joy in slaughter lately" thought. It is also possible to find surface thoughts reacting "seeing [the victim] die" -- since normally the vampire is the only witness to their own murder, it's a strong signal.
-There are two "normal" ways to be absolutely sure a dwarf is a vampire. The first is to catch them in the act; the dwarf will be clearly marked for the duration of the attack (i.e. Urist McVampire, Vampire on the [[unit list]], in red). A vampire does not mind if the player is currently "watching" or even following it. The second is to have a dwarf witness the event happening. This will permanently uncover their identities, but almost always results in a dead dwarf first. More arcane are indicators based on their physical abilities; vampires with injured guts do not [[vomit]], with injured lungs they have no problem "breathing", nor will submerged vampires [[drown]] (evoking the concept of an olden witch test for finding vampirism). Technically being undead, animated corpses will not evoke cancellation spam when a vampire sees them. An easy (albeit, [[exploit|cheap]]) way of screening migrants is to send them through a hallway with a zombie on the other side of fortifications/windows in clear sight. Normal dwarves will run away from the horrible sight of a harmless zombie but vampire dwarves will walk right through.
+There are two "normal" ways to be absolutely sure a dwarf is a vampire. The first is to catch them in the act; the dwarf will be clearly marked for the duration of the attack (i.e. {{DFtext|Urist McBloodSucker, Vampire|4:0}}</code> on the [[unit list]] in red). A vampire does not mind if the player is currently "watching" or even following it. The second is to have a dwarf witness the event happening. This will permanently uncover their identities, but almost always results in a dead dwarf first. More arcane are indicators based on their physical abilities; vampires with injured guts do not [[vomit]], with injured lungs they have no problem "breathing", nor will submerged vampires [[drown]] (evoking the concept of an olden witch test for finding vampirism). Technically being undead, animated corpses will not evoke cancellation spam when a vampire sees them. An easy (albeit, [[exploit|cheap]]) way of screening migrants is to send them through a hallway with a zombie on the other side of fortifications/windows in clear sight. Normal dwarves will run away from the horrible sight of a harmless zombie but vampire dwarves will walk right through.
 Vampires often will wear items crafted from their kills. If a dwarf is wearing items made from the bones of dwarves, this is a pretty good indication that they are a vampire, and the same is true of vampires of other races. Sometimes these items can find their way into circulation through natural means, so it does not always mean that someone who possesses a dwarf or human bone item is a vampire; having multiples of these items is a stronger indication.
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 Vampires often will accuse an innocent dwarf of their murders. This can point the savvy fort manager to the culprit as quickly as an honest witness to the crime. If an accusation from a single witness appears in the justice screen, it is likely false. Monitor the accused dwarf until you see them eat, drink, or sleep, which proves them innocent.
-Looking at the [[deity|deities]] that the dwarf believes in (in the {{k|r}}elationships screen) can be quite helpful. Vampires often still worship the god that cursed them with vampirism, so one of the deities of a vampire may have a "cursed the dwarf [vampire's true name] . . ." clause.  Note that the level of worship of their deity by vampires is *always* 'dubious'. (might be incorrect in 0.50+{{verify}} ) Deities also list historical figures which have begun worshiping them.  If an already-cursed vampire comes to worship a new deity, they are flagged as such in the deity's history, with an "In the [season] of [year], [deity] received the worship of the [species] vampire [vampire's true name]" clause. Lacking both of these clauses from all of their deities seems to be a clear sign that the suspect is ''not'' a vampire. This non-bugged way of checking a vampire is linked to the "cheap" bugged way of checking of vampires, which is described in the final paragraph.
+Looking at the [[deity|deities]] that the dwarf believes in (in the {{k|r}}elationships screen) can be quite helpful. Vampires often still worship the god that cursed them with vampirism, so one of the deities of a vampire may have a "cursed the dwarf [vampire's true name] . . ." clause.  Note that the level of worship of their deity by vampires is *always* 'dubious'. ''(might be incorrect in 0.50+{{verify}} )'' Deities also list historical figures which have begun worshiping them.  If an already-cursed vampire comes to worship a new deity, they are flagged as such in the deity's history, with an "In the [season] of [year], [deity] received the worship of the [species] vampire [vampire's true name]" clause. Lacking both of these clauses from all of their deities seems to be a clear sign that the suspect is ''not'' a vampire. This non-bugged way of checking a vampire is linked to the "cheap" bugged way of checking of vampires, which is described in the final paragraph.
 Then there are the (in ''Dwarf Fortress'', inevitable) bugged ways. As mentioned in the [[#Bugs|bugs]] section, vampires can be discovered and identified in [[statue|statuary]] and [[engraving]]s, through their refusal to claim [[bed]]rooms, through [[pet|adoption events]], and through [[weapon]] [[kill list]]s. Additionally, if you have the vampire on follow, their title will change from their usual one ("Dwarf A") to "Dwarf A Vampire" when they are doing certain activities.

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 {{DFtext|Urist McVictim, Cheesemaker has been found dead, completely drained of blood!|5:1}}
-[[File:vampire_sprite_preview.png|right]]'''Vampires''' {{Tile|Ñ|4:0}} are [[undead]] [[night creature]]s that feed on [[blood]], cursed during [[world generation]] by profaning against their former [[deity|deities]]. In [[fortress mode]], they occasionally appear in [[migrant]] waves and hide themselves amongst your [[dwarves]]. Vampirism can be further spread by [[thirst|drinking]] either vampire blood, or [[water]] contaminated by said vampire blood.
+[[File:vampire_sprite_preview.png|right]]'''Vampires''' {{Tile|Ñ|4:0}} are [[undead]] [[night creature]]s that feed on [[blood]], cursed during [[world generation]] by profaning against their former [[deity|deities]]. In [[fortress mode]], they occasionally appear in [[migrant]] waves and hide themselves amongst your [[dwarves]]. They can also appear as [[visitors]]. Vampirism can be spread by [[thirst|drinking]] either vampire blood, or [[water]] contaminated by said vampire blood.
 Graphically, if revealed to be a vampire, dwarves and [[human]]s will have light green skin. [[Elves]], [[goblin]]s and [[kobold]]s on the other hand, will have blue skin. [[Animal people]] will appear as they are, with no color palette changes.

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 == Habits ==
-Vampires are secretive and, for better or for worse, a fairly common occurrence. Many fortresses can expect to see a vampiric resident within the first few years - some may see two or more. Vampires arrive with a false name, hiding their true name and kill list until they are discovered. They act as any other dwarves, performing jobs which are assigned to them and generally acting as expected, except for differences too small to notice easily in any sizable population: they do not eat, drink or sleep. They can be [[military|drafted]], assigned to [[burrow]]s, be given [[room]]s (because they do not sleep, vampires will not claim rooms on their own{{verify}}), and own items.  The most important difference is that sometimes ''(when? how often?)'', they drink the blood of dwarves or other creatures (if any tame animals somehow fall asleep - eg via a syndrome - vampires will drink their blood as willingly as they will that of a dwarf or other creature) that they catch sleeping. If a vampire is in the military and has current station orders, they may ignore them and search out a victim, still displaying 'station'.
+Vampires are secretive and, for better or for worse, a fairly common occurrence. Many fortresses can expect to see a vampiric resident within the first few years - some may see two or more. Vampires arrive with a false name, hiding their true name and kill list until they are discovered. They act as any other dwarves, performing jobs which are assigned to them and generally acting as expected, except for differences too small to notice easily in any sizable population: they do not eat, drink or sleep. They can be [[military|drafted]], assigned to [[burrow]]s, be given [[zone|room]]s (because they do not sleep, vampires will not claim rooms on their own{{verify}}), and own items.  The most important difference is that sometimes ''(when? how often?)'', they drink the blood of dwarves or other creatures (if any tame animals somehow fall asleep - eg via a syndrome - vampires will drink their blood as willingly as they will that of a dwarf or other creature) that they catch sleeping. If a vampire is in the military and has current station orders, they may ignore them and search out a victim, still displaying 'station'.
 If a vampire is caught in the act of draining a victim, their crime will be reported in the [[justice]] [[menu|screen]] as murder (they will not, however, stop drinking when caught). If only the corpse is discovered, the crime will be labeled as a murder sans suspects, and the player can accuse dwarves of the act. Even in the case that someone is accused, be aware that the deceitful vampire is capable of framing others for its crimes to send suspicion away for a time. If a vampire is killed, the corpse will bear the original name of the creature, rather than that of the dwarf who was seen to die, which might lead to some confusion among managers of such things. A [[coffin]] will be designated for burial of the vampire's cover identity, with the corpse bearing the original name entombed in it. Memorial slabs will be dedicated to the vampire's original name.

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 Once you suspect you have a vampire, you probably want to know ''who'' it is. There are a number of good indicators of a vampire and the more points a dwarf hits, the more likely they are, indeed, a vampire. The difficult vampires to identify are young ones, as they have not had time to build up the indicators that are obvious on older bloodsuckers.
-Firstly, there are the consequences of their age. Vampires tend to be high in multiple (4-5+) [[social skill|social]], high in at least one [[military]] [[skill]], and "great" or better in at least one domestic skill. The biggest indicator of a vampire in this version{{verify}} is that they will almost always have more skills (10-15+ easily) at Novice or better than any of your other dwarves. If your new Great Hunter is also a Novice Milker, Shearer, Farmer, Tanner, Carpenter, Stonecrafter, Furnace Operator, Soap Maker, Fisherdwarf, Fish Cleaner, and Fish Dissector... they're almost certainly a vampire. They also tend to have very long lists of [[Thoughts and preferences#Civilization membership|group associations]], on the order of dozens, far more than normal dwarves; abnormally long lists of [[relationships|relations]], and often many, many children, none of whom are present in the fortress (in stark contrast to the spouses, children and siblings whom most dwarves will share their home with). If they are married to a dwarf that is not present in the fortress, this should be treated as especially strong evidence. Note, however, that lacking relatives within the fortress is not a good indicator of being a vampire.
+Firstly, there are the consequences of their age. Vampires tend to be high in multiple (4-5+) [[social skill|social skills]], high in at least one [[combat skill]], and "great" or better in at least one domestic skill. The biggest indicator of a vampire in this version{{verify}} is that they will almost always have more skills (10-15+ easily) at Novice or better than any of your other dwarves. If your new Great Hunter is also a Novice Milker, Shearer, Farmer, Tanner, Carpenter, Stonecrafter, Furnace Operator, Soap Maker, Fisherdwarf, Fish Cleaner, and Fish Dissector... they're almost certainly a vampire. They also tend to have very long lists of [[Thoughts and preferences#Civilization membership|group associations]], on the order of dozens, far more than normal dwarves; abnormally long lists of [[relationships|relations]], and often many, many children, none of whom are present in the fortress (in stark contrast to the spouses, children and siblings whom most dwarves will share their home with). If they are married to a dwarf that is not present in the fortress, this should be treated as especially strong evidence. Note, however, that lacking relatives within the fortress is not a good indicator of being a vampire.
 Their [[Personality trait|personality]] can also be scrutinized for abnormalities. Their biographies may indicate that they "have the appearance of somebody who is (x) years old," a very good indicator of a vampire in cases where they have too many children - or too many civilization associations - to be that young. As vampires do not eat, sleep, or drink, they will never have recent thoughts about meals, drinks, beds, dining rooms, or chairs, leaving their thoughts especially bare and suspicious. In the case of vampires who have been in the fort for a while, a comment may be added to the effect that "s/he could really use a drink," "s/he has not had a drink in far, far too long," or "can't even remember the last time s/he had some." This is an indicator that they need blood. In any case, if alcohol is available, it makes an excellent distinguishing mark. However, [[tavern]] keepers may give a vampire alcohol which they will then drink.{{verify}} In addition to the brevity of surface thoughts, if you were unfortunate enough to have a dwarf die to a vampire, the culprit will have the "took joy in slaughter lately" thought. It is also possible to find surface thoughts reacting "seeing [the victim] die" -- since normally the vampire is the only witness to their own murder, it's a strong signal.

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 Younger vampires stalk the streets of towns and cities, indistinguishable from the average mortal, and drink the blood of unsuspecting innocents. Elder vampires, those with power and ambition, mislead the gullible and power-hungry into forming vampire cults dedicated to worshiping and feeding their master. Should a vampire rise to a position of power in mortal society, it may deign to expose itself and impose a rule of tyranny upon the subjects who so unknowingly elevated it to power. {{verify}}
-None of your seven starting dwarves will ever be vampires, nor will children or babies, [[caravan]]s, [[siege]]s{{verify}}, [[ambush]]es{{verify}}, or [[thief|thieves]]{{verify}}, but any of the rest of your dwarves can be. (Foreign [[diplomat]]s can be vampires, and will be labeled as such.)
+None of your seven starting dwarves will ever be vampires, nor will children or babies, [[caravan]]s, [[siege]]s{{verify}}, [[ambush]]es{{verify}}, or [[thief|thieves]]{{verify}}, but any of the rest of your dwarves can be. (Foreign [[diplomat]]s can be vampires, and will be labeled as such.) The chance that a migrant can be a vampire can be adjusted in the [[Difficulty#Vampires|difficulty]] [[settings]].
 == Habits ==

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 * Dwarves passing by a body drained of all blood will immediately drop what they are doing to report it to the captain of the guard, regardless of how many times it has already been reported.{{bug|8899}}
-{| {{listboxformat|class=gamedata}}
+{{Scriptdata}}
 {{Creatures}}
 {{category|humanoids}}

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 Consider placing a chair and table in your vampire's sealed room and making them an undead accountant. As they have nothing to do but sit around for eternity, once they get their skills up, they may make exceedingly effective [[manager]]s/[[record keeper]]s. Work orders and stockpile updates currently seem to be psychically transmitted from the desk of the dwarf assigned to those labors, so entombing them in their office isn't an issue. However, vampire dwarves are still alcoholics, yet cannot drink anything but blood; the resulting job performance penalty from the "can't even remember the last time he/she had some" level of [[Drink|alcohol withdrawal]] significantly reduces the usefulness of vampires in this sort of role.
-A cloistered vampire can also be used as a sleepless, foodless and drinkless dwarf who is always ready for some [[pull lever|lever pulling]], even if the rest of your dwarves die. With all that said, having an eternally cloistered vampire is not without drawbacks. As vampires do not drink, yet are still alcohol-dependent, they will eventually suffer performance penalties and take longer breaks. This can have fatal consequences if you need the lever to keep the goblin siege outside pulled ''now''. Since dwarves get unhappy [[thought]]s from having their clothes rot away, a vampire that's been naked for years is quite prone to [[tantrum]]ing, or going [[insanity|insane]], which can lead to [[Fun|even worse outcomes]] should they be assigned to the lever room. Of course, you could drop them some clothes from a chute, but what fun is that when there are [[cave-in|other]] [[dwarven atom smasher|things]] [[Magma|to]] [[Goblin|drop]] [[Kobold|from]] [[Noble|above?]] Or you could assign the vampire to a squad and supply them with a set of armor, as armor doesn't wear out. Another way to mitigate cloistered vampire unhappiness is to convict them of one or more of their murders after they've been sealed in; they will eventually derive happiness from having their punishment "delayed".
+A cloistered vampire can also be used as a non-sleeping, non-eating and non-drinking dwarf who is always ready for some [[pull lever|lever pulling]], even if the rest of your dwarves die. With all that said, having an eternally cloistered vampire is not without drawbacks. As vampires do not drink, yet are still alcohol-dependent, they will eventually suffer performance penalties and take longer breaks. This can have fatal consequences if you need the lever to keep the goblin siege outside pulled ''now''. Since dwarves get unhappy [[thought]]s from having their clothes rot away, a vampire that's been naked for years is quite prone to [[tantrum]]ing, or going [[insanity|insane]], which can lead to [[Fun|even worse outcomes]] should they be assigned to the lever room. Of course, you could drop them some clothes from a chute, but what fun is that when there are [[cave-in|other]] [[dwarven atom smasher|things]] [[Magma|to]] [[Goblin|drop]] [[Kobold|from]] [[Noble|above?]] Or you could assign the vampire to a squad and supply them with a set of armor, as armor doesn't wear out. Another way to mitigate cloistered vampire unhappiness is to convict them of one or more of their murders after they've been sealed in; they will eventually derive happiness from having their punishment "delayed".
 Vampires do increase their stats like other dwarves, so that a weak vampire may be easily upgraded into a mighty one by using them as a miner or easily trained into a legendary swimmer. A vampiric craftsdwarf may be burrow-limited to their workshop plus a stockpile, or a miner restricted to specific mining levels, avoiding any other miners. It will be safe if all of the miners have separate, assigned bedrooms.

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 There are three ways to become a vampire in Adventurer Mode. The classic method is slaying a vampire and drinking their vampiric blood (or simply attacking them, causing them to bleed and then drinking their blood off the floor), which immediately turns you into a vampire. However, not all vampires have infective blood. What causes a vampire to have non-infective blood is unclear, but it appears to be related to world age.{{bug|9774}} Further research is needed.{{verify}} In some cases, drinking water that has been tainted with the vampire's blood will be more effective, much like drinking from a blood-tainted well.
-Playing as a species of [[animal people]] able to suck blood out of people with a bite attack (a [[leech man]], a [[tick man]], a female [[mosquito man]], etc) allows you to become a vampire by successfully biting and sucking the blood out of a living vampire during combat. While this reverse-vampire-vampirism sounds awesome on paper, however, caution should be taken due to blood-sucking animal people generally being smaller and more fragile than other races, making it very dangerous without careful preparation.
+Playing as an [[animal person]] able to suck blood out of people with a bite attack (a [[leech man]], a [[tick man]], a female [[mosquito man]], etc) allows you to become a vampire by successfully biting and sucking the blood out of a living vampire during combat. While this reverse-vampire-vampirism sounds awesome on paper, however, caution should be taken due to blood-sucking animal people generally being smaller and more fragile than other races, making it very dangerous without careful preparation.
 Another, safer method is by toppling statues of your god/s in a temple or sanctuary. Walk up to the statue and topple it with {{K|u}} then {{K|a}}. Toppling a statue in this way will lead you to being cursed: the curse will be either vampirism or werebeast transformation. Which curse you get appears to be randomly decided at the time you topple the statue (reloading the game and toppling it again has been confirmed to give the alternate curse.). If a statue unrelated to your religion is toppled, nothing will happen.

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 === Playing as a vampire ===
-[[File:vampire_sense_blood.png|thumb|163px|right|Player vampire detecting blood-having creatures behind a tree.]]You will be able to feed on other creatures by using {{k|e}} and choosing the "Feed" option on an unconscious target. On becoming a vampire, Strength, Agility and Toughness are doubled. This is a multiplier effect applied to these attributes and while the affected stats are doubled, the displayed attributes in the statistics menu will not change. As a result, your adventurer can have average strength in the attributes menu, but their description will show them as extremely muscular. Physical attributes, such as endurance, are still able to increase after becoming a vampire.
+[[File:vampire_sense_blood.png|thumb|163px|right|Player vampire detecting blood-having creatures behind a tree.]]You will be able to feed on other creatures by using {{Adv menu icon|e}} and choosing the "Feed" option on an unconscious target. On becoming a vampire, Strength, Agility and Toughness are doubled. This is a multiplier effect applied to these attributes and while the affected stats are doubled, the displayed attributes in the statistics menu will not change. As a result, your adventurer can have average strength in the attributes menu, but their description will show them as extremely muscular. Physical attributes, such as endurance, are still able to increase after becoming a vampire.
-If you have become a vampire, all warm, blood-bearing bodies that you can't directly see from your position will appear as [[File:vampire_sense_marker.png|20px]] tiles, or {{Raw Tile|☼|4:0:1}} in ASCII mode. (The vampire ability to sense living creatures will satisfy your need to "See Animal" through walls.) Your {{DFtext|Thirsty}} indicator will also show up as red, instead of blue. Due to such conditions, it is relatively impossible to quench your thirst on any member of a civilization without antagonizing any of your companions - even if you don't have any, there's still that chance that your victim might wake up in the middle of your feast and effectively set a whole civilization against you. Considering that vampires will not tire, the easiest way to deal with this is to sprint and {{k|j}}ump over a river. Once on the other side, you just need to suck the blood of the first creature you find, and return to your companions. Note also that by talking to your companions, you can ask them (in the favor menu) to stay where they are, allowing you to walk out of their sight and suck the blood of the first creature you find. One way to counter this is to raid goblin/bandit camps, concentrating on one lone, weak unit far from any comrades, beat them till they give in to pain (but not to death) and then feed on them directly. You can do the same with wildlife, although some of them may be more aggressive, and most might die too quickly. You can also try to strangle your foes; they instantly pass out and will not die unless you keep on strangling them for a long time. For instructions on chokeholds, see the [[Wrestler#Chokehold and strangling|relevant article]]. Another solution is finding some indoor place with people inside and Sleep so you wake up while they are sleeping. Your companions go wait outside while you sleep, so you have a brief window of time to suck a sleeping person's blood.
+If you have become a vampire, all warm, blood-bearing bodies that you can't directly see from your position will appear as [[File:vampire_sense_marker.png|20px]] tiles, or {{Raw Tile|☼|4:0:1}} in ASCII mode. (The vampire ability to sense living creatures will satisfy your need to "See Animal" through walls.) Your {{DFtext|Thirsty}} indicator will also show up as red, instead of blue. Due to such conditions, it is relatively impossible to quench your thirst on any member of a civilization without antagonizing any of your companions - even if you don't have any, there's still that chance that your victim might wake up in the middle of your feast and effectively set a whole civilization against you. Considering that vampires will not tire, the easiest way to deal with this is to sprint and {{Adv menu icon|j}} jump over a river. Once on the other side, you just need to suck the blood of the first creature you find, and return to your companions. Note also that by talking to your companions, you can ask them (in the favor menu) to stay where they are, allowing you to walk out of their sight and suck the blood of the first creature you find. One way to counter this is to raid goblin/bandit camps, concentrating on one lone, weak unit far from any comrades, beat them till they give in to pain (but not to death) and then feed on them directly. You can do the same with wildlife, although some of them may be more aggressive, and most might die too quickly. You can also try to strangle your foes; they instantly pass out and will not die unless you keep on strangling them for a long time. For instructions on chokeholds, see the [[Wrestler#Chokehold and strangling|relevant article]]. Another solution is finding some indoor place with people inside and Sleep so you wake up while they are sleeping. Your companions go wait outside while you sleep, so you have a brief window of time to suck a sleeping person's blood.
 After becoming a vampire, you become invisible to zombies, since you're now an undead night creature. It is usually preferred to raid a necromancer tower alone, because bringing companions will only get them killed, and your agility when you become a vampire will rise drastically anyway, causing you to outrun them. This increased agility will also give you better odds against [[bogeymen]] and [[night troll]]s, since you'll be quicker than both.