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Difference between revisions of "Military testing"
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This page on the wiki houses trials run within the game by players, with the intention of arriving at conclusions on how certain combat situations work, or just combat in general. | This page on the wiki houses trials run within the game by players, with the intention of arriving at conclusions on how certain combat situations work, or just combat in general. | ||
| − | If you want to know more about how to do your own testing go to the [[DF2010:Arena]] wiki article. To learn more about the military and how it works in ''Dwarf Fortress'', go to the [[DF2010:Military]] article. | + | If you want to know more about how to do your own testing, go to the [[DF2010:Arena]] wiki article. To learn more about the military and how it works in ''Dwarf Fortress'', go to the [[DF2010:Military]] article. |
The format in which trials are presented here is by no means a strict rule. Feel free to add and change elements but make sure the information is easy to read and understand. Try to provide any information you think is relevant and useful without digressing too much. | The format in which trials are presented here is by no means a strict rule. Feel free to add and change elements but make sure the information is easy to read and understand. Try to provide any information you think is relevant and useful without digressing too much. | ||
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<u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | <u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | ||
| − | Like the dragon, the hydra has a very hard time with the dwarves. The fight is long and even though it can kill them all eventually, the damage it takes in the meantime is definitive. A slightly higher number of dwarves might have killed it and even if a whole squad dies, the threat the hydra poses is practically | + | Like the dragon, the hydra has a very hard time with the dwarves. The fight is long and even though it can kill them all eventually, the damage it takes in the meantime is definitive. A slightly higher number of dwarves might have killed it and even if a whole squad dies, the threat the hydra poses is practically eliminated as it will probably eventually die on its own anyway. |
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|} | |} | ||
| − | This study seems to show that (for legendary | + | This study seems to show that (for legendary dwarves), silver war hammers are about equal with adamantine battleaxes, even with both sides being unarmored. The previous time I ran this test, hammers actually won 6 of the 10 rounds, but this time it was evenly split. |
:(Is that because a grandmaster dwarf can disable or kill an unarmored dwarf with just one hit with either weapon? Might be worth examining the combat logs.) [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 09:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC) | :(Is that because a grandmaster dwarf can disable or kill an unarmored dwarf with just one hit with either weapon? Might be worth examining the combat logs.) [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 09:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC) | ||
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! Side & Creature !! Number !! Skills !! Items | ! Side & Creature !! Number !! Skills !! Items | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | #1: | + | | #1: Dwarves || 6 || Proficient Fighter and swordsdwarf, skilled Dodger, Armor and Shield user<br> || Full iron armor&Shortsword |
|- | |- | ||
| #2: Skeletal horse || 6 || None || none | | #2: Skeletal horse || 6 || None || none | ||
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! Side & Creature !! Survived !! Injury level !! Health tags !! Most common cause of death | ! Side & Creature !! Survived !! Injury level !! Health tags !! Most common cause of death | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | #1: | + | | #1: Dwarves || 6 || 1 with minor wounds, one with head bruising and some broken parts || 1 unconscious (Dwarf with head bruising) || |
|- | |- | ||
| #2: Skeletal horse || 0 || || || | | #2: Skeletal horse || 0 || || || | ||
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<u>'''Notes:'''</u> | <u>'''Notes:'''</u> | ||
| − | + | Dwarves began in a line, horses began slightly scattered | |
<u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | <u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | ||
| − | The test was a test of how a middling military would fare against an equal force of skeletal horses. The | + | The test was a test of how a middling military would fare against an equal force of skeletal horses. The dwarves did excellently with only one badly wounded and one other with a minor wound. |
= DF2012 (0.34.02) tests = | = DF2012 (0.34.02) tests = | ||
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| #2: Swordswarf || 5, 0, 0, 0 || Torn muscle, Severed nerve, Opened arteries, Severed limbs, Missing Limbs || Pale, -N/A- || Bled to death | | #2: Swordswarf || 5, 0, 0, 0 || Torn muscle, Severed nerve, Opened arteries, Severed limbs, Missing Limbs || Pale, -N/A- || Bled to death | ||
|} | |} | ||
| − | Third time last axedwarf actually fall into martial trance and finished three remaining | + | Third time last axedwarf actually fall into martial trance and finished three remaining sworddwarves, last sword guy just bled to death while fighting. |
It seems that the initiated distance of the engagement is a factor, though I'm not sure and this statement requires more tests. | It seems that the initiated distance of the engagement is a factor, though I'm not sure and this statement requires more tests. | ||
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=== War Hammer material effectiveness comparison (ongoing) (Tested by: Adonkares) === | === War Hammer material effectiveness comparison (ongoing) (Tested by: Adonkares) === | ||
| − | <u>'''Test description:'''</u> After editing the object testing arena into 896 4x1 duel rooms and 84 5x5 5v5 brawl rooms the premise of gold war hammer superiority was put to trial using a variety of different hammer materials. A program was written to populate the arena more quickly as well as equip the | + | <u>'''Test description:'''</u> After editing the object testing arena into 896 4x1 duel rooms and 84 5x5 5v5 brawl rooms the premise of gold war hammer superiority was put to trial using a variety of different hammer materials. A program was written to populate the arena more quickly as well as equip the dwarves. (If anyone has any tips on counting the results quickly or via a program, please let me know.) |
<u>'''Acronym explanation:'''</u> Each test was assigned a number from 1-3. Each row in a table is named after Duel or Group results and is followed by a -s -g -c suffix to denote the material of the weapon equipped. And so 1solo-g means a group of 1v1 dwarf fighters with steel armor and gold hammers. | <u>'''Acronym explanation:'''</u> Each test was assigned a number from 1-3. Each row in a table is named after Duel or Group results and is followed by a -s -g -c suffix to denote the material of the weapon equipped. And so 1solo-g means a group of 1v1 dwarf fighters with steel armor and gold hammers. | ||
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= DF 2020 (v0.47.04) Tests = | = DF 2020 (v0.47.04) Tests = | ||
| − | == | + | == Combat fatigue and the skill 'Armor User' (by NeckRomancer) == |
| − | + | Long fights makes dwarves very tired. When a dwarf gets too tired he or she will fall unconscious and become an easy target for the enemy. Can the skill 'Armor User' help a dwarf to fight for longer? | |
| − | I don't know the attribute values of arena dwarves. My assumption is that they are identical, because | + | When someone is unconscious in combat, their foes start to do targetted head attacks with increased force. This can sometimes be seen in the combat log, a copper edged weapon that earlier couldn't damage a copper helm can now both damage and break that helmet. It's pretty rare but dwarves have also been observed using a "remove helm" action and immediately follow up with a deadly head-hit, this specific head targetting points towards an unconcious target. Strangulation appears to be the most common type of death, but that could be because of the test design and may not be true for real combat. |
| + | |||
| + | I don't know the attribute values of arena dwarves. My assumption is that they are identical, because dwarves in the arena all seem to tire around the same time. The median Endurance value of a dwarf is 1000, so this might be what Arena dwarves have. Since Fortress dwarves can double their initial attribute by training, one can expect them to do a bit better than an Arena dwarf. | ||
<u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set | <u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set | ||
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<u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | <u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | ||
| − | Endurance is a big factor in these fights, seen by the many flashing X's that appear. The fighters also gets the Tired, Exhausted and Over-exerted statuses. I run 100 matches at the same time, and the 1v7 took almost twice as long as the 1v5 to resolve, which hints at just how tired they | + | Endurance is a big factor in these fights, easily seen by the many flashing X's that appear. The fighters also gets the Tired, Exhausted and Over-exerted statuses. I run 100 matches at the same time, and the 1v7 took almost twice as long as the 1v5 to resolve, which hints at just how tired and useless they are near the end. |
A high Armor User skill does not appear to help against exhaustion, since 0 and 14 skill have the same outcome. The slightly better performance of the Armor User 14's is not large enough to mean anything, it could be random noise. In the test below, no armor is used, and they actually perform better than in this test, very likely because they don't get tired as quickly. | A high Armor User skill does not appear to help against exhaustion, since 0 and 14 skill have the same outcome. The slightly better performance of the Armor User 14's is not large enough to mean anything, it could be random noise. In the test below, no armor is used, and they actually perform better than in this test, very likely because they don't get tired as quickly. | ||
| − | == | + | |
| + | == Fighting outnumbered in open and narrow terrain (by NeckRomancer) == | ||
| + | |||
| + | This test looks at the performance of a single very skilled fighter against a group of rookies in two types of terrain, a 7x7 room and a 1-wide tunnel. The win ratios will show us if the terrain has an impact on the outcome. | ||
<u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set in open, 50 per set in narrow | <u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set in open, 50 per set in narrow | ||
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<u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | <u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | ||
| − | The narrow tunnel gives the solo fighter | + | The narrow tunnel clearly gives the elite solo fighter an advantage. Exactly why is harder to say, probably many factors, below is some speculation. |
A successful dodge always seem to move the character. Private tests I have run show that Dodge is more effective in 1v1 matches in open terrain, and less effective in a 1-wide tunnel. This is detrimental to the elite in the tunnel, since the high skill is wasted. On the other hand, one can suspect that a surrounded fighter will also suffer a reduced effect from Dodge since there are less free tiles to move to. | A successful dodge always seem to move the character. Private tests I have run show that Dodge is more effective in 1v1 matches in open terrain, and less effective in a 1-wide tunnel. This is detrimental to the elite in the tunnel, since the high skill is wasted. On the other hand, one can suspect that a surrounded fighter will also suffer a reduced effect from Dodge since there are less free tiles to move to. | ||
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It is known that facing is a thing. Meaning that flanking attacks probably can't be shield blocked. The 1-wide tunnel should then make the shield more important since the solo fighter can only be flanked if the group can pass through him first. | It is known that facing is a thing. Meaning that flanking attacks probably can't be shield blocked. The 1-wide tunnel should then make the shield more important since the solo fighter can only be flanked if the group can pass through him first. | ||
| − | A surrounded target should suffer more attacks in the same time-interval, increasing the odds of getting | + | A surrounded target should suffer more attacks in the same time-interval, increasing the odds of getting killed. |
Endurance might play a role too. If the surrounded solo fighter must perform more defensive actions, she will get exhausted faster. | Endurance might play a role too. If the surrounded solo fighter must perform more defensive actions, she will get exhausted faster. | ||
| − | |||
| − | A series of | + | == Combat skills and win ratios (by NeckRomancer) == |
| + | |||
| + | A series of 1 vs 1 fights to see how important 'Weapon skill', 'Fighter', 'Dodger' and 'Shield User' is to the outcome. As well as a test to roughly estimate the importance of each skill at a specific skill level. | ||
<u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set (some tests were rerun for better precision, all data is included as separate sets) | <u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set (some tests were rerun for better precision, all data is included as separate sets) | ||
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<u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | <u>'''Tester's conclusion:'''</u> | ||
| − | |||
| − | At skill level 5 in a | + | At skill level 5 in a 1 vs 1 match between naked dwarves inside a 7x7 room, the order of importance of the skills investigated were: Weapon > Shield User > Dodger = Fighter. |
| − | == | + | == Armor weight and combat fatigue (by NeckRomancer) == |
| − | Does armor weight | + | Does heavier armor weight make a dwarf more tired? The idea behind the test is to make an armored fighter so tired that she looses about half of her fights against unarmed opponents. Then, by changing the weight of her armor, it should be noticeable in the win-ratio if heavier or lighter equipment make her fall unconscious from exhaustion earlier or later. |
<u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set | <u>'''Times run:'''</u> 100 per set | ||
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! Side & Creature !! Number !! Skills !! Items | ! Side & Creature !! Number !! Skills !! Items | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | #1a: Elite | + | | #1a: Elite naked dwarf || 1 || Fighter 14<br>Axeman 14<br>Dodge 14<br>Shield User 14 || Copper battle axe<br>Fungiwood shield |
|- | |- | ||
| − | | #1b: Elite | + | | #1b: Elite leather dwarf || 1 || Fighter 14<br>Axeman 14<br>Dodge 14<br>Shield User 14<br>Armor User 14 || Copper battle axe<br>Fungiwood shield<br>chicken leather armor<br>chicken leather helm<br>2 chicken leather gloves<br>2 chicken leather high boots |
|- | |- | ||
| − | | #1c: Elite | + | | #1c: Elite armored dwarf || 1 || Fighter 14<br>Axeman 14<br>Dodge 14<br>Shield User 14<br>Armor User 14 || Copper battle axe<br>Fungiwood shield<br>mail shirt<br>helm<br>breastplate<br>greaves<br>2 gauntlets<br>2 high boots |
|- | |- | ||
| #2: 6 dwarven peasants || 6 || none || none | | #2: 6 dwarven peasants || 6 || none || none | ||
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|} | |} | ||
| − | <u>'''Bonus tests'''</u><br> | + | <u>'''Bonus tests (not very good ones, but just to test some extra stuff)'''</u><br> |
1) add more weight, replace wood shield with copper shield<br> | 1) add more weight, replace wood shield with copper shield<br> | ||
2a) try partial armor: copper helm, 2 copper gauntlets and 2 copper high boots (no chain shirt, no breastplate, no greaves)<br> | 2a) try partial armor: copper helm, 2 copper gauntlets and 2 copper high boots (no chain shirt, no breastplate, no greaves)<br> | ||
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|- | |||