Editing 40d Talk:Justice

== A cage for every man, woman and child! ==

One chain / restraint is needed for every 10 dwarves (but not parts thereof).
:I've not noticed such a rule in this version of DF. My Captain of the Guard(former sheriff) hasn't had a single unhappy thought about not having not enough restraints. Might it be, that in this version the thought is triggered, when all restraints are used up and the law enforcement doesn't have any place, where to put a criminal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 01:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)

== Unnecessary? ==

Personally I never allocate the Sheriff or build a jail.  The only crimes in my fortress are violations of work orders, and I'm not going to let my hardworking crafters sit in jail because some noble had a hissyfit because we didn't build platinum chairs on a map with no platinum.  Now every time a work order expires, the noble gets an unhappy thought (so what, they live in a solid gold house), and the workers get ''happy thoughts'' for getting away with the "crime".  [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:43, 6 March 2008 (EST)
: I guess you should pray you never get a [[Hammerer]] turning up then. Or pray that any arriving Hammerer meets an unfortunate end, due to an entirely unforseeable series of bizarre accidents... -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Actually, I've had a hammerer for years.  She never lifts a finger, just eats and wanders around.  I assume a jail must exist for the hammerer's justice jobs to be created, or something. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 20:34, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Hm. I've been trying to ignore Justice, but my nobles keep going insane, with the only negative thought I can see being "angered that nobody could be punished". This last time I hadn't even missed a mandate. They don't ''quite'' live in a solid gold house, but it's close. In my last fortress, after my third Duke arrived I started building chains; then I noticed dwarves were getting Hammered and dying for mandate failures. Which way is worse? Maybe I'll just set a low pop cap and not worry about nobles. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 19:49, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly disregard. I spent a while narrowing down exactly when my latest noble was going insane, only to find out that it's [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug 777] and will be fixed in the next version. Now I just have to buy all the iron off the caravan. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:46, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Just a minor update to clarify a few things.  I'm still playing, and still have no jails, a full cadre of nobles, and a hammerer who does nothing.  Looking at the thoughts page for my nobles, they're definitely getting (multiple) unhappy thoughts from all the work orders I'm ignoring and the punishments I'm failing to deliver.  And sometimes they dip below ecstatic for this reason, briefly.  However, they then go and eat some masterwork food and sleep on their masterwork bed, and get happy thoughts for these events, so they're soon back up to ecstatic.  If you want to ignore justice, just make sure your nobles live in the lap of luxury, and it'll balance out.  [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 12:31, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Eternal Prisoners? ==

My Captain of the Guard never seems to release the prisoners, and they just starve to death or go mad in their cages. Is there any way to get them out? (Fun fact: Currently the lazy ass is responsible for more deaths than goblins, elves, mining accidents and humans put together) While I'm here, I have more than enough cages, but sometimes he just decides to beat the living daylights out of criminals instead of imprisoning them. There is a hammerer, but I've never seen her do anything but stuff her face and start parties. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:44, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Beating==
Article says: the sheriff or fortress guard attack the dwarf unarmed for a short time - this punishment is used instead of imprisonment if the jail is full. But in my experience they do it with whatever weapon they have equipped, not unarmed. I won't believe, that my absolutely unskilled captain, who was assigned this duty after a minor lower spine injury, and who didn't have any military skill higher than dabbling, has mandled both legs and a shoulder of a prisoner unarmed... He was wielding a sword. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:55, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

==Waiting on injured criminals?==

My justice page lists thirty criminals, but only two have sentences listed -- one for hammerstrikes, one for imprisonment.  The two dwarves with listed sentences are both injured.  Are they holding up the whole justice process?  Those two dwarves have spinal injuries and will never recover; any way to get the system moving again? --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 15:07, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
:To answer my own question: New offenders are added at the top of the list.  So it appears that, until I find a solution, the older offenders are all safe from punishment due to the injured dwarves before them.  --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 18:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
::The ones without sentence are the ones, whose sentences has already expired--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:39, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

==Metal Chains are breakable==

[[Image:90f49e6c zincchainbroken.png|600px|thumb]]
I was under the impression that they were not breakable when the dwarf in question was tied to the chain.  This Furnace Operator, though, seems to think otherwise.  I think we should add a note about this.
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 Just a minor update to clarify a few things.  I'm still playing, and still have no jails, a full cadre of nobles, and a hammerer who does nothing.  Looking at the thoughts page for my nobles, they're definitely getting (multiple) unhappy thoughts from all the work orders I'm ignoring and the punishments I'm failing to deliver.  And sometimes they dip below ecstatic for this reason, briefly.  However, they then go and eat some masterwork food and sleep on their masterwork bed, and get happy thoughts for these events, so they're soon back up to ecstatic.  If you want to ignore justice, just make sure your nobles live in the lap of luxury, and it'll balance out.  [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 12:31, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
-:Justice is actually worse than unnecessary if you don't have nobles freaking out about unpunished criminals.  I've been running a fort where I kill the baron/ess + consort + DM + hammerer + tax collector every time they show up; they're around long enough to issue mandates, but not long enough to have them fail, nor to be worried about unpunished prisoners, nor would I care if they were.  I have a mayor, and she does get "upset by the delayed punishment of a criminal", which the [[thought]] page says is -5 to happiness.  '''However,''' the "criminals" themselves are "glad to have punishment delayed recently", which is a +20 thought!
-:So by ignoring justice in a noble-free fortress, one dwarf gets slightly bugged while the rest of the fort is happier than ever.  Sounds like a pretty good deal!  It seems that so long as everyone is happy enough that you don't '''need''' them put away in jail, ignoring justice is actually a major net positive.  &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 20:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 == Eternal Prisoners? ==
 My Captain of the Guard never seems to release the prisoners, and they just starve to death or go mad in their cages. Is there any way to get them out? (Fun fact: Currently the lazy ass is responsible for more deaths than goblins, elves, mining accidents and humans put together) While I'm here, I have more than enough cages, but sometimes he just decides to beat the living daylights out of criminals instead of imprisoning them. There is a hammerer, but I've never seen her do anything but stuff her face and start parties. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:44, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
-The only solution i can propose is to remove the occupied cage or chain once the sentence is over. And while you're at it, why not try picking a new (happy) captian of the guard to see if it's not the result of your guard being crippled or retarded or something. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 ==Beating==
 Article says: the sheriff or fortress guard attack the dwarf unarmed for a short time - this punishment is used instead of imprisonment if the jail is full. But in my experience they do it with whatever weapon they have equipped, not unarmed. I won't believe, that my absolutely unskilled captain, who was assigned this duty after a minor lower spine injury, and who didn't have any military skill higher than dabbling, has mandled both legs and a shoulder of a prisoner unarmed... He was wielding a sword. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:55, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
-:In fact the sheriff uses whatever he is holding in his hand. Same as with tantruming. My sheriff just killed a peasant using a *Dwarven Rum Barrel*. --[[User:Tobias|Tobias]] 09:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 ==Waiting on injured criminals?==
@@ Line 36: / Line 29: @@
 :To answer my own question: New offenders are added at the top of the list.  So it appears that, until I find a solution, the older offenders are all safe from punishment due to the injured dwarves before them.  --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 18:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
 ::The ones without sentence are the ones, whose sentences has already expired--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:39, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
-I was watching a tantrum spiral the other day, and I swear I saw my Captain of the Guard walk up to a dwarf who already had a broken leg and beat him to death! I'm not 100% sure, but can someone confirm this? [[User:Lord Dakoth|Lord Dakoth]] 02:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 ==Metal Chains are breakable==
 [[Image:90f49e6c zincchainbroken.png|600px|thumb]]
-I was under the impression that they were not breakable when the dwarf in question was tied to the chain.  This Furnace Operator, though, seems to think otherwise.  I think we should add a note about this. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)
+I was under the impression that they were not breakable when the dwarf in question was tied to the chain.  This Furnace Operator, though, seems to think otherwise.  I think we should add a note about this.
-I think he's destroying the building as a result of the tantrum. "Not breakable" doesn't mean they're invincible like constructions, but that a dwarf [i]tied[/i] to one cannot escape.
-== Targets of Work Order Violations ==
-How the hell do the nobles decide who gets punished for a work order violation?
-I had one of my dwarves who was in the military since the beginning of time get punished for this, so it doesn't seem to be foistered on the dwarf most capable of completing the job or somesuch. Has anyone noticed a pattern or is it just totally random? [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
-It's totally random.  I've seen a count order hammerstrikes against his own son. [[User:Crash2455|Crash2455]] 01:57, 24 July 2009
-== Export Mandates, Guards, and Beating To Death ==
-Guards are a seriously bad idea. I'd hardly used them before my current fortress (usually leaving it to a lone sheriff) and they are currently legendary wrestlers and literally rip criminal's limbs off. The only way I can get rid of them at this point is to lock them in their rooms and contrive their death.
-Also I've noticed that if a noble puts on an export mandate AFTER you've traded away all those scepters they love so much (but before the traders leave the map), you'll get an enormous (1/item maybe?) number of crimes assigned to an exciting cross section of your fortress from one guy. Some of them get multiple crimes, too. --[[User:Namako|Namako]] 18:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Beating resulting in death=murder? ==
-One of my guards beat somebody to death in punishment recently, then the guard HIMSELF was punished for murder (by the hammerer, 50 strikes). Can anybody confirm this happening?--[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 01:29, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
-== Changing Sherrif has wierd effects ==
-My sherrif had just assigned some guy a beating and fifty-one days of imprisonment for some crime, but, as my sherrif was also a legendary engraver and I needed my new dining room fixing up, I swapped the sherrif job over to some other guy, who proceded to ignore the punishment. I then decided to test what would happen if the sherrif himself were up for punishment, so, I set the guy who was being punished as the sherrif, and he continued to ignore his punishment and got a +20 happy though for not being punished, as well as the -5 unhappy thought for not punishing himself. --[[User:Blue sam3|Blue sam3]] 14:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
-== Beatings ==
-Unfortunately, I had saved a game right after accidentally trading about 80 items mandated against export, and just as the caravan was leaving (so I couldn't trade back for them to prevent their leaving). Understandably, I was then a little chagrined when my 'Professional Wrestler' Fortress Guards decided to rip half my fortress limb from limb, while the Hammerer decided to outright slaughter the other half. Even more amusing was when the guards would later beat on each other for violating that work order, nominally by carrying the tainted bins to the Trade Depot. One guard beating another guard beating one other guard beating the first guard's child. Lovely.
-The only alternative I could manage, in the ten game-days left before the punishments started rolling in from my last save, was to drown my Hammerer, and then to swap all my dwarfs with any fighting acumen whatsoever out of the Fortress Guard. Subsequently, beatings administered by Dabbling Weaver's and Peasant's failed to do little more than bruise the majority of my dwarfs (I think my Legendary Miner/Mason somehow got a hickey on his upper spine).
-Moral of this tale? Make sure your Fortress Guard is largely toothless before a massive wave of punishment rolls in (and ensure that your Hammerer is... indisposed).