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Editing 40d Talk:Ramp
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+ | redirect slope to this place? | ||
+ | took a while for me to find this. | ||
+ | helps in making traps and controlling movements. | ||
+ | thank god things can't fly...i think. | ||
+ | oh right and i don't know how to do whatever. redirect.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 17:22, 30 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | :Yeah, things can totally fly. Angrystalk the Giant Bat, I know you're out there, come join your brothers in my cages! ---[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 20:02, 30 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
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====Downward Ramp==== | ====Downward Ramp==== | ||
I am in my digging designation menu and I don't see an option to dig a ramp down? If I want to do that do I need to use stairs to get down, then construct ramps up? Then replace the stairs with ramps? --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 12:21, 29 August 2008 (EDT) | I am in my digging designation menu and I don't see an option to dig a ramp down? If I want to do that do I need to use stairs to get down, then construct ramps up? Then replace the stairs with ramps? --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 12:21, 29 August 2008 (EDT) | ||
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::Agreed that the examples and illustrations aren't clear. The "short version" should be the "main version". [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 20:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC) | ::Agreed that the examples and illustrations aren't clear. The "short version" should be the "main version". [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 20:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
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+ | == Untrue Things on this Page, In My Experience == | ||
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+ | # Ramps support other ramps as if they were all one big ramp. (?!) | ||
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+ | # Digging a ramp under trees is dangerous. | ||
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+ | # Dwarves can dig from the bottom of a ramp up to a space that doesn't have a wall under it. | ||
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+ | I've verified these in 40d. I might just excise them and clean up the page a bit. [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 20:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
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+ | Also, possibly, 4. Natural/carved ramps are "slopes" implying constructed ramps are true "ramps". DF calls them all slopes when you use {{k|k}}. I feel the terms are interchangeable, but ''ramp'' is preferable because it's the word used in the in the menus when your dwarves actually make them by both digging '''and''' constructing. [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 20:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
− | ::In a word, "No". Because, unfortunately, ramps are not simple. That was my edit you deleted, and what it meant was that if the "space above the wall next to the ramp is open", the ramp may still (sometimes) fail - if that space is ''next to'' the ramp, and not in the direction of travel when going up the ramp. A wall to the side is not adequate - therefore (unfortunately), "as simple as possible" cannot be as simple as your edit and still be accurate. But your goal is shared - will try again.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC) | + | ::(@ ManaUser) In a word, "No". Because, unfortunately, ramps are not simple. That was my edit you deleted, and what it meant was that if the "space above the wall next to the ramp is open", the ramp may still (sometimes) fail - if that space is ''next to'' the ramp, and not in the direction of travel when going up the ramp. A wall to the side is not adequate - therefore (unfortunately), "as simple as possible" cannot be as simple as your edit and still be accurate. But your goal is shared - will try again.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC) |
::Just to clarify Albedo, are you saying that a creature may only move up a ramp by crossing it in a straight line? That's what I'm understanding when you say there must be a space above a wall "in the direction of travel." [[User:Njero|Njero]] 18:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | ::Just to clarify Albedo, are you saying that a creature may only move up a ramp by crossing it in a straight line? That's what I'm understanding when you say there must be a space above a wall "in the direction of travel." [[User:Njero|Njero]] 18:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::''Basically'', yes. But that's not true for descending (where dwarfs can "jump down" from the side). What's worse, is ramps are buggy, and so sometimes a "broken" ramp will work for a while (sometimes a long while!) before realizing it's not legal. Sometimes 45 degree jumps at the top are accepted for upwards travel. Sometimes a ramp supported only by another ramp (or, rarely, by nothing) hangs around. (And then there is the "one-way ramp" exploit.) What's more, pathing seems to sometimes depend on more than the several tiles adjacent to the ramp - it ''looks'' valid, but no one uses it. They are not a joy to use and ''still'' not perfectly understood, which is why we're (understandably) having a hard time nailing down the "simple explanation" that everyone can accept.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | :::''Basically'', yes. But that's not true for descending (where dwarfs can "jump down" from the side). What's worse, is ramps are buggy, and so sometimes a "broken" ramp will work for a while (sometimes a long while!) before realizing it's not legal. Sometimes 45 degree jumps at the top are accepted for upwards travel. Sometimes a ramp supported only by another ramp (or, rarely, by nothing) hangs around. (And then there is the "one-way ramp" exploit.) What's more, pathing seems to sometimes depend on more than the several tiles adjacent to the ramp - it ''looks'' valid, but no one uses it. They are not a joy to use and ''still'' not perfectly understood, which is why we're (understandably) having a hard time nailing down the "simple explanation" that everyone can accept.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
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:Albedo, you have done some editing of what other people have said on this talk page, including creating a misattribution (the original comment in this section is not by me), and you even deleted an entire section that I wrote! [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 19:49, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | :Albedo, you have done some editing of what other people have said on this talk page, including creating a misattribution (the original comment in this section is not by me), and you even deleted an entire section that I wrote! [[User:Cheepicus|Cheepicus]] 19:49, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
− | :: | + | ::Both were unintentional, and I never saw your edit - thought that was his, not sure, maybe I cross-edited somehow - you should have repaired them, but I have now. |
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::Also, you caught me in mid-edit; to continue.... | ::Also, you caught me in mid-edit; to continue.... | ||
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Also, if you remove that wall, the ramp (often) collapses - no definition, no ramp. (A ramp in a corner has two supports, and can work either way - odd to think of, but that's DF.) And that's my model. Sometimes buggy ramps seem to work around that, but not always - but if you follow that model, you get a working ramp, leading where you want, 100% of the time. <br /> | Also, if you remove that wall, the ramp (often) collapses - no definition, no ramp. (A ramp in a corner has two supports, and can work either way - odd to think of, but that's DF.) And that's my model. Sometimes buggy ramps seem to work around that, but not always - but if you follow that model, you get a working ramp, leading where you want, 100% of the time. <br /> | ||
I'm sure there's room for improvement on that - what would you suggest?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:37, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | I'm sure there's room for improvement on that - what would you suggest?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:37, 14 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
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