Editing 40d Talk:Refined coal

Maybe the articles on charcoal and coke should be merged with this page on fuel since all three pages basically say the same thing. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 18:00, 22 November 2007 (EST)

== Starting things off ==

Somehow this needs to be adjusted to show that to kick start your smelter you need some coal... or is there some other way of getting from bituminous coal to coke? fan I use some other furnace to get started? (I have plenty of wood, "rock" and bituminous coal but no "coal" or magma).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:27, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:it already says "(fuel will be needed to power this at a normal smelter)" for the bituminous coal to coke reaction in the article. turn that wood into charcoal and use it to turn the bituminous coal to coke [[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)

::All right... someone at a different page said I needed '''coal''' and I couldn't find "just coal" mentioned ANYWHERE, hence my confusion.
::So I need to "process" wood to get "charcoal". Will see how I go, thanks.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Is wood burning a skill? ==

I cant seem to find it on the [[skill]] page.  Either that or this one should be changed
:Wood Burner at the bottom of the Farmer section. It's there :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:02, 8 January 2008 (EST)
::Oops, my bad. Sorry  --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 17:53, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Block template ==

Over at [[Lignite]] there is a pretty little box which looks like:
{{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888
|uses =
* 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]
|location =
* [[Sedimentary layer]]s
* Found as veins
|properties =
* Can [[ignite]]
* [[Economic stone]]
* [[Material value]] 1}}

It would be nice if there was one here too.

Secondly, what I would like to do on [[Lignite]] and [[Bituminous coal]] is have a pictorial formula which says:
l [[lignite]] + 1 [[coal]] = 2 [[coke]]
( it would be like :
{{key|l}}{{key|l}} + {{key|c}} = {{key|a}} but with pictures of the tiles instead of letters)

but I don't know how to do the tiles for lignite / coal / coke / charcoal.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? ==

I always wondered if making a magma cistern out of Coke would create a massive, but permanent fire.  The reasoning would be that coal burns in any form, magma is hot, but constructions are permanent and not destroyed by magma.  In a failed attempt to create a permanent magma waterfall, some magma touched my coke road (I had no iron, but magma and plenty of bitimous coal, so I thought "why not?").  The road is now on fire, but I do not know if it will be permanent as my remaining dwarves will perish by the end of the season by leftover fire/lava, starvation/drought or depression, so I have to ask if anyone knows if coal constructions will ever disappear. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:25, 10 January 2009 (EST)

:It won't even burn. Don't try, you'll just be wasting time. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:31, 11 January 2009 (EST)

::I beg to differ as that is what I said happen in my previous (and long, sorry about that) post.  My Coke Road caught on fire when magma spilled onto it, and never went out before I abandoned the fortress (I didn't feel like waiting for the remaining 5 dwarves to starve to death). --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:03, 11 January 2009 (EST)

== Rewrite - & "fuel" ==

"B" is for [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Community Portal#B|Bold]].

When I first read this important page as a newbie, I knew that In Real Life you could burn coal for fuel, and that coal was mined and commercially used as fuel, and that coke was from coal and used in steel production, and that charcoal burned hotter than wood and so was used for smelting, and that in the game you mined bituminous coal.  These terms, combined with the previous version's use of the in-game term "refined coal" and the undefined term "fuel", conspired to absolutely confuse the hell outa me for both smelting and steel production.  

Once I got some basic smelting going on my own, and then some steel made by trial and errour, it all made sense - but the point of a wiki page is to make sense ~''before''~ the trial and errour (there's enough of that in the game as is.)  Questions and confusion in the forums only reinforced my feeling about this.

When I found the additional in-game term "fuel coal", the 5th "coal/fuel"-related term, I'd had enough, and decided something had to change.  After seeking the advice of several wiki notables (thanks again!), this is the result.

There is some repetition between the sub-sections - I felt this was justified since some users will only refer to the one sub-section they are concerned with. Yes, their mistake, but it's easily accounted for and not overly cumbersome, imo.  And the fact that the game terms distinguish between charcoal and coke, and IRL they're very different, but are identical/interchangeable in game use - I felt that could not be understated.

I hope - and believe - that I achieved the goals that others recommended - a clear and comprehensive page that stayed true to the confusing in-game terms without allowing them to confuse these explanations. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ::All right... someone at a different page said I needed '''coal''' and I couldn't find "just coal" mentioned ANYWHERE, hence my confusion.
 ::So I need to "process" wood to get "charcoal". Will see how I go, thanks.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)
-:I'm having issues using my bituminous coal, I've been operating on charcoal only so far, but i don't seem to be able to find the task to create coke from bituminous coal. Is it supposed to show up on the smelting menu or someplace else?
 == Is wood burning a skill? ==
@@ Line 48: / Line 46: @@
 ::I beg to differ as that is what I said happen in my previous (and long, sorry about that) post.  My Coke Road caught on fire when magma spilled onto it, and never went out before I abandoned the fortress (I didn't feel like waiting for the remaining 5 dwarves to starve to death). --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:03, 11 January 2009 (EST)
-:::I can confirm ever burning buildings. Had a 'ever brurning trade depot'. The traders refused though to use it. So I deconstructed it and got 2 every burning charchoals that are blocking the place for a new trade depot. Any one got a idea how to get dispose of those?
-:::Flooding with more magma does not work...--[[User:Arni|Arni]] 19:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
-::::Wait a year or so and they'll eventually burn away (‼charcoal‼ -> ‼xcharcoalx‼ -> ‼XcharcoalX‼ -> ‼XXcharcoalXX‼ -> nothing at all). Make sure you've got temperature turned on, though, or nothing will happen. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 == Rewrite - & "fuel" ==
@@ Line 63: / Line 57: @@
 When I found the additional in-game term "fuel coal", the 5th "coal/fuel"-related term, I'd had enough, and decided something had to change.  After seeking the advice of several wiki notables (thanks again!), this is the result.
-Altho' a side-by-side history comparison shows a 99% rewrite, actually most of the information is the same, and many of the previous phrases and sentences still in place, just radically reformatted and re-arranged.
+There is some repetition between the sub-sections - I felt this was justified since some users will only refer to the one sub-section they are concerned with. Yes, their mistake, but it's easily accounted for and not overly cumbersome, imo.  And the fact that the game terms distinguish between charcoal and coke, and IRL they're very different, but are identical/interchangeable in game use - I felt that could not be understated.
-There is some repetition between the sub-sections - I felt this was justified since some users will only refer to the one sub-section they are concerned with. Yes, their mistake, but it's easily accounted for and not overly cumbersome, imo.  And the fact that the game terms distinguish between charcoal and coke, and IRL they're very different, but are identical/interchangeable in game use - I felt that could not be overstated.
-I hope - and believe - that I achieved the goals that others recommended - a clear and comprehensive article that stayed true to the confusing in-game terms without allowing them to confuse these explanations. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
-== Change? ==
-I've found that charcoal cannot be used for forging, and you can combine either 1 coke or 1 charcoal with lignite/bituminous coal to produce more coke. <sub>(unsigned by [[User:Morinon|Morinon]])</sub>
-:Nope. Charcoal can still be used fine for forging instead of coke in 40d. Are you playing a mod? Have you tried forbidding all coke to force the use of charcoal? Making coke from lignite/bituminous coal is always done in the way you describe. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 18:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Opal need ==
-trying produce coke from bitum, but result "Solon Udilmat, Woodcutter cancels Make Coke From Bituminous Coal: Needs black opal."
-same for lignite but "Needs white opal"
-i've try last edition of DF
+I hope - and believe - that I achieved the goals that others recommended - a clear and comprehensive page that stayed true to the confusing in-game terms without allowing them to confuse these explanations. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
-:Your raws are corrupted - delete the contents of the "data/objects/" folder and restart the game (they'll be regenerated from what's in the "raw/objects" folder). If it's still wrong, then you'll have to regenerate your world and restart any fortress you may already have. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
-::rebuilding objects folder didn't help. files "before" and "after" are equals.