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− | + | == Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon == | |
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− | + | This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST) | |
− | + | Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST) | |
− | + | Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST) | |
− | + | Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT) | |
− | + | == Extraction from different articles == | |
− | == | + | All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST) |
+ | :Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST) | ||
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+ | : Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | ::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | |||
+ | == Haulers? == | ||
+ | In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | :That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | ::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | :::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST) | ||
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+ | == Moving goods on afterwards == | ||
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+ | To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around? | ||
+ | I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | :AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded. | ||
+ | Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | ::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST) | ||
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+ | ==Duplicate Page?== | ||
+ | The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix] | ||
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+ | == culling on mandates == | ||
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST) | what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST) | ||
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST) | :I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST) | ||
− | ::I | + | |
− | :::I | + | == "everything is ruined now" == |
+ | I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small> | ||
+ | :It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST) | ||
+ | :The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | ==Depot Access== | ||
+ | Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | == Trading Margins == | ||
+ | In regards to this submission: | ||
+ | "If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully." | ||
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+ | You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
+ | : Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
+ | ::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way. | ||
+ | ::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress. | ||
+ | ::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | :Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT) | ||
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+ | == Goblins butchering my caravans. == | ||
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+ | Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small> | ||
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+ | My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Trading flowchart == | == Trading flowchart == | ||
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Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki) | Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki) | ||
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right | Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right | ||
− | {|cellpadding="2" border="1" | + | {|cellpadding="2" border="1" |
|- | |- | ||
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) | | colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) | ||
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Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] | Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] | ||
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− | + | :Ask and ye shall receive | |
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− | : | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location |
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− | : | + | |colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot | |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible | |
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− | == | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded | |
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− | + | |colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading | |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled | |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours | |
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− | + | |colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade | |
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− | + | You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT) | |
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− | == | + | == Offerings == |
− | + | Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT) | |
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+ | Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
− | == | + | == Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? == |
− | + | Personally I've found it very useful to do this: | |
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+ | When traders arrive, | ||
+ | a) optionally check stocks. | ||
+ | b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort. | ||
+ | c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest. | ||
− | + | To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?). | |
− | + | The reason: | |
− | + | a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like. | |
+ | b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth. | ||
− | + | Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion. | |
− | + | Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like: | |
− | + | "NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession." | |
+ | [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
− | + | == Clear the perimeter? == | |
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− | + | Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT) | |
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