v0.34 Talk:Trading

Goblin Caravans?

this article is conflicted, in 1 place it says goblin caravans arrive in the winter, another says they arrive every season. can someone confirm which is right?

I believe this is old information. In 31.xx I had seen a fort get a goblin caravan once, but never again. Nshapter (talk) 00:07, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Accessible?

• Caravans only spawn on ground edge tiles that could be walked on when the embark zone was first generated.

I can confirm that if you create an above-ground route to the edge of the embark zone wagons will not spawn on it - instead you get the 'bypassed your inaccessible ...' message. Presumably flooring over the top of a river / sea / lake that adjoins the embark zone edge would also not work.Ptb ptb 21:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Depot Deconstruction

This is something I've not had the courage to verify, but I've noticed. I deconstructed from under an Elven caravan once, and got their goods. They looked legit, and all that, and so I stocked them away, naturally. I tried to trade with the next elf caravan, and making sure that none of the goods, even those weird <<ropes>> had any wood whatsoever. They claimed the item was one a beautiful tree, and is now a useless bauble. They packed up and left. I tried this more carefully the next year, and same thing.

Point is, can anyone verify if a civ remembers what goods you steal by way of depot deconstruction? --Aescula 10:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

(EDIT) I would like to verify that you can, in fact, deconstruct the depot to gain all of the traders items. I haven't noticed any change in the factions relations with my fortress, but it's cheating! Do not cheat unless you need to! (to keep it fun for longer) ;)

Animal Genders

I really feel stupid asking this one... I notice the gender order in the liaison's meeting dialog seems to be set - Yak Cow and Yak Bull don't swap positions between liaisons, nor do Goose and Gander - but does anyone know which Dog and which Cat are which? The three animals immediately above are all listed male first, then several in a row (dog, cat, donkey, horse) are listed which are impossible to distinguish male from female, then the next is listed female first. I only need females to increase my breeding rate, of course, but this screen (and only this screen, as far as I can tell) fails to show any sign as to the animals' genders, if they're not distinguishable by name. Gatherer818 00:56, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe that males would come first, even if there gender isn't displayed, simply because there wouldn't be a good reason for them not to. If you need a specific gender, I would just request both and choose when they arrive, just to be safe. --Lethosor (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Goblins Arrive in Winter

I can confirm this. It's rare to have goblins at peace with your civilization, but it does in fact happen (with the same behavior as previous versions). Removing the verification tag in the paragraph that mentions it. Danjen 02:54, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Emergency Supplies

While examining my disassembly of version 0.23.130.23a, I discovered some very interesting logic in the caravan code: the exact rules for "emergency supplies".

1. Bring enough meat and fish items so that you will end up with 5 for every meat-eater in your fortress (carnivores*5 - (food_meat + food_fish)). In practice, this does nothing because dwarves are omnivores.
2. Bring enough meat/fish/plants/cheese (and probably also other food items) so that you will end up with 5 for every dwarf in your fortress (population*5 - (food_total - food_drink - food_seeds).
3. Bring enough cloth/leather so that you have enough to make 5 sets of pristine clothes for every dwarf in your fortress (population*5 - (cloth_total + leather_total + min(armor_total, shoes_total, pants_total)).
4. Bring enough logs so that you will end up with 1 for every dwarf in your fortress (population - wood_total).

These rules actually date all the way back to 23a (aside from the "wood logs" rule), and they all count items which are non-rotten, have zero wear, and are unforbidden (for the clothes one, it also excludes anything which would be worn as Armor). Thus, caravans will start bringing cloth and leather in large quantities once your dwarves' existing clothes start to wear out. --Quietust 19:12, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Flowchart error?

I'm quite certain that the liaison does not talk with the broker, but rather with the main administrator - expedition leader, mayor, noble. – unsigned comment by 91.65.223.39

True. I changed the flowchart (which is located here). --Lethosor (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Dwarven 'mercenaries'

I apologize if this is in the wrong place, it just seemed like the most valid area to put it.

So while playing one of my fortresses, a wagon got stuck leaving the depot and decided to sit there. Eventually, it broke and the merchants all ran away, but a curious thing happened. Two of the caravan guards remained beside it. So as the months turned into years, these few soldiers stayed by my fortress, never leaving, never going mad, never starving. And that's when it occurred to me. What if I could separate the soldiers from the caravan? The caravans don't care when soldiers don't come back, and the soldiers remained friendly after caravans had left. It would be a perfect backup for my fortress, a lever that can simply release an army of friendly soldiers into the enemy ranks, eager to path from the interior of my fort to the exit, undoubtedly through the front lines of the goblin invaders. So construction was begun, on the first guard-capturing system. It was a simple thing, simply a depot surrounded by retractable bridges, as soldiers have a tendency to walk around the outside of the depot while the merchants remain within, and although inefficient, it did begin to have some results.

This inefficiency, of course, was unacceptable, so I decided to refine my system. A caged troll was placed on a platform opposite a bridge beside my depot, and a window was build between them. When soldiers arrived, the troll could be released, and being a building destroyer, would remain by the window in order to break it, while the soldiers would path across the bridge and be trapped below. This system, while still not perfect, resulted in a roughly 95% efficiency, with nearly all soldiers being captured underneath.

During the following goblin Siege, the spike pit trap that was connected to my detainee pit, which I was testing in the meantime, began to have a curious result. Arrows were being fired out of it into the goblin horde, and I certainly did not post any archers there. The captured archers were firing out of the pit and into any goblin that pathed within range.

This, of course, made me realize that it would be very possible to set up a system for caging archers, then releasing them into guard towers where they will defend your fortress at all times, never tiring, never needing breaks. Now, of course, I needed to figure out the logistics of such a task. Initial attempts at causing soldiers to be trapped by fall damage were... unsuccessful, however a cave in due to a poor channel design gave me an idea. Dust from cave ins will knock any creature unconscious, and it can easily be manufactured where necessary. This system, of course, resulted in several redesigns to my capturing apparatus, the main difference being a new system was required to produce the dust. The end result was very good, with very low casualties, and a very high caging rate. Archers could now be placed where required, attached to a lever, boxed in with fortifications, and released to provide covering fire for dwarves in case of a seige, ambush, or theives. Melee soldiers, on the other hand, I discovered could be chained wherever necessary.

As of now, (practical) uses of your new soldiers include: Last line of defense- soldiers will path towards the exit, and assuming your depot is near the entrance, this will likely be straight through the goblin soldiers Archers- They can be on duty at all times, theives will be cut down mercilessly upon discovery. Some method of cutting off their line of sight, drawbridges for example, is recommended in case of elite archers. Sentries- More likely to survive a goblin ambush than your average kitten. Guards- A soldier is far stronger than a war dog, and unlike the dog will gain experience in his/her weapon of choice. Life expectancy is considerably longer as well. Pit Traps- After a fall, goblins are essentially defenceless. A single soldier locked at the bottom of your pit trap will be able to easily dispatch anything that survives the fall.

You could also host gladiatorial matches between them and captured goblins. How about a three way match with a hydra as well? Entertainment for everyone, and no tantrums at the end!

A warning: I have yet to experiment in-depth with using soldiers when the faction said soldiers belong to is at war with you (ex, humans seige you, will your 'mercenaries' switch sides?) so be wary of your newly positioned archers firing upon you. Consider having a cutoff switch, to block their view in case of betrayal. Early tests on a captured fortress where goblins were friendly on reclaim resulted in three out of forty goblins remaining loyal to the fortress upon seige, one of which died immediately, and another which switched sides again partway through the battle. All three who remained loyal had been in combat and killed goblin ambushers, which implies loyalties might shift from killing soldiers from the parent faction. In the same fortress, a human seige did not cause any human soldiers to switch sides, but all soldiers in question were still caged, awaiting transport to their new post. It is unknown if this changes anything, as tests are still underway.

(pictures of said apparatus might come later, a bit of fun occurred in my test fortress due to some shenanigans with said turncoat goblins and an ensuing tantrum spiral, but after repairs are complete I should be able to post non-messy screenshots)

You should probably put this on the forums (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=2.0) as well, not that many people will read it here. --Old Ancient (talk) 14:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Merchants are a bit paranoid... ?

The trade depot needs to be accessible to the map border for the entire time the caravan is there. If this stops being the case the merchants will stop trading and want to leave.

Not sure if this is already on the page somewhere; I couldn't find it. Found out when I thought it would be a good idea to raise my drawbridge to keep them safe :( -87.113.162.103 14:33, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

No items?

Do traders sometimes bring no items?

I have Elf merchants at the trade Depot.

"Tosace: Greetings. We are enchanted by your more ethical works. We've come to trade.

Tosace seems willing to trade.

Thonosanera

[...no items...]" - Depot trade screen

What's up? - AnnanFay (talk) 23:51, 2 August 2013 (UTC)