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== Equiping any armour with a modded dwarf ==
 
If you change the size to say size 500 they will not equip say your masterwork platemail. Yeahh. Someone should put a bolded blerb in there. I lost many a marksman the last couple days to arrows. They only put on shield. In one case a masterwork buckler and a shield. THat would look akward. --Captnapollo12 @ 23:31, 23 February 2010
 
:This armor article is not a modding article. Are you familiar with the last line of this template?[[template:mod]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Boots==
 
==Boots==
 
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)
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==Verified==
 
==Verified==
  
I can verify that when setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets  --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)
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I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets  --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)
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== Table ==
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I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007
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:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)
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:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)
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== 23.130.23a ==
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We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)
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:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
  
 
== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==
 
== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==
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I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 
I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 
Has anyone ever determined whether the material of the shield has any effect? (i.e. is a leather shield as effective as a steel shield?) --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:I have to admit it's not 100% clear (to me at least) how shields work - whether they simply determine "hit/no hit", or add a "damage block" number to reduce damage if/when they do block an attack. If the latter, it's is a central concept of armor.  See [[Shield#Material]].  However, --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
  
 
== Natural Selection ==
 
== Natural Selection ==
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:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all.  They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all.  They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
  
== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==
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== Armor split/combining?==
  
[[Leather armor]], should have it's own page.  It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
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[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page.  It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
  
 
:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)?  Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"?  Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
 
:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)?  Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"?  Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
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:*known quirks and bugs
 
:*known quirks and bugs
 
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 
 
::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.
 
::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.
 
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====The Sets====
:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
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*Peasant(cloth)
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
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*Marksman
 
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*Light
(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
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*Heavy
 
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::Each set includes the items layerable underneath. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===
 
 
 
I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't.  There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
 
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
 
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
 
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.
 
 
 
(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)
 
 
 
Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user.  But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization.  I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -
 
 
 
2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.)  For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond).  For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.
 
 
 
Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least.  The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared.  --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki.  The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article.  Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things.<br />The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes.  It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable.  "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. <br />That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
 
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
 
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
 
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
 
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
 
:::*Layering
 
::*Shields & Bucklers
 
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
 
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)
 
 
 
:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
 
::*damblock/protection values
 
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
 
::*weight explanation
 
::*size/permit explanation
 
 
 
:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another.  Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Plate over chainmail changed? ==
 
 
 
I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail.  If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm.  If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first.  I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article.  I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one.  I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Well, that's very strange, then.  I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing &rarr; chain &rarr; plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage.  Am I misunderstanding this? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath.  Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it.  I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap.  Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail.  Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate.  Am I doing something wrong here? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
::What else is the dwarf wearing? Is the third dwarf wearing different 'clothing' than the other two? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::One of the successful ones is wearing two pig tail dresses (one worn), trousers, and a sock.  One of the unsuccessful ones is wearing two leather robes and trousers (all worn).  Just retried that one, and still no go.  I assume the robes are the problem, but there's apparently no way to get them gone.  Guess I have to wait for them to wear out and fall off. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::2 robes give a combined size of 40. Adding chainmail bumps that to 55. The permit of plate is 50, so you definitely cant wear plate over that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Right, okay, so I have to wait for the dwarf to ditch the robes on his own (adding to the mess of discarded clothes already lying around the fort).  Ah well.  Thanks. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::::::Remember that all clothes are "armour", so 2 robes is still something. Turns out each robe is about 1/4 of leather - I'd rather have leather ''and'' a robe, but...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::3 words: ten adamantine hoods. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Example/consider shell..? ==
 
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?
 
 
 
how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?
 
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].)  But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Chain vrs. Plate ==
 
So maybe i straight overread that, but - we do know the protection of bone and leather as 50% vrs. Steel 133. Masterful armor is what to go for. Leather armor is limited by its material.
 
 
 
But what really is the reason to go for chain instead of plate? do we have numbers? weight, sure, but not really. scarcity of steel etc.? what do greaves that leggins do not? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 01:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:There's no long term reason, but in the beginning year or two I use chain as steel plate is a bit heavy, not to mention preparing for an early ambush always leaves a tight supply of steel. But really there's so many things in DF that are just there for flavor it's best not to dwell on it. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Buckler vrs. training? ==
 
Could it be that a marksdwarf who wears a buckler will not train at an archery range, as he doesn't have a spare hand for bolts? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 15:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I have never seen bucklers or shields keep marksdwarves from training at the archery range.  Make sure there's wooden or bone bolts to train with, and make sure he isn't holding something he isn't supposed to (like somebody's pants). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Equipping Leather "Clothing" / Armor ==
 
Does anyone know if there's any way to keep dwarves in leather after they've been deactivated from the military? Trying to figure out if I can keep my [[Cross-training#Army_corps_of_engineers]] in leather leggings, boots, etc, at the very least. -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 
:Yes and no, but basically "no".  Just like dwarves won't carry an axe unless they're assigned woodcutting, or a pick unless they're assigned mining (regardless if there's any currently designated on the map), they won't wear ''any'' armour unless there's something dangerous to do.  Tho' this usually means military, the one work-around is to enable the [[hunting]] labour, and then they'll armor up and carry their designated weapon, ready to go hunting.  The obvious problem is that they'll then go out hunting.  == Equiping any armour with a modded dwarf ==The time you can get away with this is when the map has no huntable creatures on it - older fortresses (or ones that have been aggressively hunted out) are usually the only times you'll have this happy situation.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:32, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
So would changing orders to "All dwarves stay inside" keep them from hunting?
 
--[[Special:Contributions/76.243.186.143|76.243.186.143]] 15:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:Are they dwarves? Then yes.  Worse, they'll keep trying to go ''outside'' and do the no-exit dance. The sole exception would be if, say, a macaque had scampered underground - rare, but theoretically possible.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Recent edits ==
 
 
 
Sick editing, Albedo. I dig this page.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Block Values? ==
 
 
 
Is there any clarity on what the block values mean, particularly the torso items that have the slash values? Higher is obviously better, but is any of the math behind this known? Thanks, --[[User:Rukash|Rukash]] 14:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 

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