Editing 40d Talk:Children

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]</small>

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children.  I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants.  It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is  one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something.  Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail.  By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs.  (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.)  Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children.  She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items.  My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids.  However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
* It makes sense, but only if you consider inbreeding.  And it makes a great deal of sense if you consider everything else. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults.  My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat.  So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives.  I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught.  Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy).  It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm.  I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers.  Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]?  Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer.  He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level...  I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:If you use Dwarf Manager to set a fast-levelling labour on a child, like Pump Operating, you can actually end up with a Legendary Pump Operator "peasant" who still has the peasant cyan colour and even flashes appropriately.  My theory is that the game recalculates the appropriate label for a dwarf each time they gain a level in any skill, just in case it's changed.  Hence, getting any further skills of any sort will readjust them appropriately. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults.  Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size?  That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:As for forbidding the corpses, I don't believe this is necessary.  Dwarves will only make bolts and totems and stuff out of "refuse" bones, whereas dwarves and pets are considered "graveyard" (or coffin) bones and will not be used. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born?  The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday?  --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)


== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''.<br />
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot.  --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)
:Actually, in the Middle Ages, children would often go naked; because clothes could cost more than a week's wages and children would just ruin them.  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 15:23 18 August 2009

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well.  So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc.  Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such &mdash; i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating.  You can set labours on pretty much anything friendly: Children, babies, nobles, heroes/champions (not that they'll do anything since you can't undraft them), etc.  It simply doesn't discriminate between what you should and shouldn't be able to tweak. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


== babies can swim? ==
i had a babie fall into some water, (well, the parents swam off without it), it will be find, drown for 1 second, be winded for a second, and then be fine again... [[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 01:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

==Combat children?==
I recently discovered a thief attempting to enter my fortress. The adults, including the Ultra-Mighty, Superdwarvenly Tough mechanic leading a war dog to a rope, all ran away, but one of the nearby children took it upon themselves to take down the thief. The child quickly punctured the thief's heart with his bare hands (all that partying made him Extremely Strong) and walked away without a scratch. Can anyone else confirm that children may gladly enter battle as though they were in the military?--[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 15:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

== Cliff-Chucking ==

I'm currently looking at a pair of babies whose mother died of thirst while melancholy (following a failed possession - damn you, silk-seeking ghosts!). Going by the wiki's words, I tried to keep them from going anywhere at first to make sure that they wouldn't throw themselves off a cliff, but I got quickly tired of that and let them roam freely, where they instead wandered as they pleased and partook of food and drink like any other (albeit very slow) dwarf. Anyone got any idea if the cliff-chucking fact is still true?

I'm running v0.28.181.40d16, for the record. [[Special:Contributions/24.22.239.156|24.22.239.156]] 19:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

:I just killed off the mayor, since she was bugged for some reason, and both of her babies (Yes, she had TWO and seven more children in this fortress' nine year history) promptly threw themselves into the reservoir under my dining hall, requiring me to drain it so they can get the little carpers' bodies.  So yes, I'd say that babies are still suicidal if their mother dies. --[[Special:Contributions/97.104.167.109|97.104.167.109]] 18:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Giving birth to babies doesn't interrupt sleeping ==

I had a dwarf sleeping in her bed while it gave born to her baby. The dwarf 
didn't wake up after this and the baby crawled away, i guess seeking for his father o.O. 
But the baby didn't came far, the mother woke up a few minutes later and took her
baby into her arms. The mother is healthy and has no injuries. Happened with DF 
v0.28.181.40d16 under linux. 
[[Special:Contributions/95.33.103.233|95.33.103.233]] 06:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Has anyone else noticed that children tend to follow their mother's around, even surrounding her workshop staring at her, or following her through patrol if she's in the military?--[[Special:Contributions/65.190.191.64|65.190.191.64]] 23:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?
@@ Line 53: / Line 51: @@
 :I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children.  She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
 :My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items.  My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids.  However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
-In my fort, I have a dwarf whom is a mother of 10, two are currently babies, she's one of my champions, but she's constantly on patrol, shooting goblins (76 kills), or practicing her marksdwarfship. She's never NOT pregnant, and spits out a dwarf every 3 seasons or so. --[[Special:Contributions/75.73.50.254|75.73.50.254]] 13:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 == Triplets... ==
@@ Line 63: / Line 60: @@
 Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It makes sense, but only if you consider inbreeding.  And it makes a great deal of sense if you consider everything else. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-*Wait... so he is the son of his mother and his GRANDMOTHERS CURRENT OR PREVIOUS HUSBAND not necessarily his mothers father. maybe he is the bastard child of a possibly bastard mother and his possibly-a-widow-grandmother (unaware that he fathers her grandchild) married his father. and the child is aware of this. or a portion of it.[[User:1337 w0n|1337 w0n]] 02:45, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 == Children strenght ? ==
@@ Line 82: / Line 78: @@
 :I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy).  It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
-::I know this is old but, it appears that babies will become thirsty (and possibly die) when not carried by their mother.  I dropped a baby-carrying mom in a pond of 4/7 depth.  The mother, being afraid of the deep water, didn't bother to retrieve the child when escaping, and the baby just sat there.  Some time later, I noticed that the baby was dehydrated (despite being surrounded by water), so I drained the pond.  The moment the baby was picked up by the mother, the dehydrated condition vanished.  Also, the baby never learned to swim, despite being in the water for several weeks. [[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 07:42, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
-::so babies FLOAT and DON'T DIE i wonder if i can make water-wings out of them? NO... WAIT. that probably wasn't the right response. um... now they won't take up space?.. until they get thirsty... hm... [[User:1337 w0n|1337 w0n]] 02:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 == No Profession? ==
@@ Line 126: / Line 118: @@
 Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot.  --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)
 :Actually, in the Middle Ages, children would often go naked; because clothes could cost more than a week's wages and children would just ruin them.  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 15:23 18 August 2009
-:As far as I know only children born in your fort are all-time-nudists. Migrantchildren wear clothes. I wonder if they keep on being naked even after getting to adulthood.(would save the entire clothing industries. :D ) Never had fort for bout... 14 years though.
-Best regards --[[User:Laranto|Laranto]] 23:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
-All the Children in y fort tend to wear nothing but blood and vomit[[Special:Contributions/76.235.48.216|76.235.48.216]] 05:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 == Can't change parent's jobs ==
@@ Line 148: / Line 138: @@
 == babies can swim? ==
 i had a babie fall into some water, (well, the parents swam off without it), it will be find, drown for 1 second, be winded for a second, and then be fine again... [[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 01:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
-:No, they cant:[[File:babies-cant-swim.jpg]]--[[User:Arni|Arni]] 17:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
-::Drop them in shallow water, and they might live long enough to become Novice swimmers, at which point they'll stop drowning unless they panic. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:26, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
-:::Babies won't gain skill in swimming, despite sitting in 4/7 water for long periods of time, until they grow up and become children.  In fact, they'll die of thirst before they gain a rank in swimming. --[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 07:49, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 ==Combat children?==
 I recently discovered a thief attempting to enter my fortress. The adults, including the Ultra-Mighty, Superdwarvenly Tough mechanic leading a war dog to a rope, all ran away, but one of the nearby children took it upon themselves to take down the thief. The child quickly punctured the thief's heart with his bare hands (all that partying made him Extremely Strong) and walked away without a scratch. Can anyone else confirm that children may gladly enter battle as though they were in the military?--[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 15:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
-:On that note, I begin my project of creating a holding cell for all children, and babies if possible, at the entrance to my fortress. They will be the first line of defense. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 19:10, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
-::A sort of "help yourself" offering to child-snatchers, no doubt. ;)
-::Any creature (inc. civilians) will fight if cornered. (This is why [[carp]], who have no [PREDATOR] tag, become so vicious when encountered in murky pools - nowhere to run, so they bring it.)  Same here - and since combat has a huge randomizing factor (a kitten can, in theory and practice, kill a dragon), and since children do nothing all day but sit around socializing and amassing huge attributes, we see cornered children casually heart-ripping gobbos, despite intuitive expectations.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 == Cliff-Chucking ==
@@ Line 174: / Line 158: @@
 v0.28.181.40d16 under linux.
 [[Special:Contributions/95.33.103.233|95.33.103.233]] 06:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
-== Levers ==
-Do children actually pull levers? In my fort, I set a Lever's workshop profile to only allow a Child and issued a "Pull the Lever" command, and it isn't being pulled. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
-== Adoption? ==
-The article states that orphans are never adopted. However, I had both a child's father lost to a goblin ambush, and the mother eventually went insane and pitched herself off a cliff, and when I found the child later sleeping in someone else's bed, the description said that he had been "rescued" by Urist Somethingorother. Isn't that adoption, or something else? (Hmm... or considering he has a chronic spine injury, maybe he was a failed suicide??) --[[User:Jogar2|Jogar2]] 19:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
-:The rescued thought is given to any dwarf that is carried by a dwarf who takes them to a barracks or hospital bed with the "Recovered Wounded" job
-== Parents with strange moods ==
-I've had a Carpenter who gave birth while in a strange mood, but she ignored the baby and it rolled around in the muddy underground farm for a while but then started crawling to the magma forging area. I thought the baby didn't believe it had a mother, so it was trying to throw itself into the magma. The mother finally finished her project and rescued her baby. Was the baby actually trying to kill itself or did it wander near the magma randomly? Anyone want to confirm that babies of dwarves in strange moods will act as though their parents were killed?--[[User:Malrin|Malrin]] 01:33, 27 December 2009 (UTC)