Editing 40d Talk:Fortification

==Can water or magma flow through fortifications?==
Can water or magma flow through fortifications?--[[User:Javiskefka|Javiskefka]] 03:45, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:Yes. I use this all the time to keep the pesky fire imps out of my magma channels. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
::I did so, too. But after some time the magma melted the fortification away and the imps could pass through unhindered again.--[[User:Doub|Doub]] 13:42, 12 March 2007 (EST)
::: Use [[bauxite]]. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 01:20, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Possible alternative: Will fortifications melt if they are carved instead of constructed? Perhaps instead of mining out the last tile before fleeing, the dwarf could carve a fortification in the obsidian. It's conceivable that that tile, being one of the original tube liners, could be magma-proof by fiat. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
:::::I tried this when breaching into a magma pipe and yes, the (warm) obsidian fortification is still present many years later. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Dwarf who had the misfortune of being the one assigned the task of carving the fortification. Magma apparently flows faster than a dwarf can run, especially when their feet are on fire. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ditto -- carved fortifications don't melt. (I built like this: lava-wall-fortification, then channelled the wall from above) It appears the game tends to treat carved and constructed things very differently. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:57, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just build [[vertical bars]] in channels, usually out of iron.  Keeps bad things and good things out, lets water and magma flow through. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:42, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, I built bauxite grates at first, but then I had a thought that [[magma men]] (being buildingdestroyer:2) could bust them open. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just embarked without any preparations (random items/skills) on a site with volcano. I created empty pool, and then carved fortifications near it. After that I channeled rock before the fortifications, and now I see just lying obsidian... Looks like carved fortifications melt too, at least in the current version. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 10:08, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::No, the fortification is still there, it just looks like magma until you loo{{k|k}} at it. While I was checking this I noticed a fire imp on the wrong side of the fortification, so I guess it isn't enough. (or can they spawn anywhere?) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:59, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Strong current can currently push creatures through any kind of obstacle that allows liquid flow. I will retry check with the obsidian fortification in my obsidian factory. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

==Open questions ==
*What depth is required for a liquid such as water or magma to flow through a fortification? minimum 4/7? --[[User:Nexii Malthus|Nexii Malthus]] 19:11, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
:I've just tried this with constructed fortifications (green glass) and water. The fortification doesn't seem to impede the flow of water at all. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 10:15, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:I had a section of fortress walled off from my moat with fortifications, and it filled with magma at the same rate as the rest of the moat. I think they are considered clear for the purposes of liquid flow. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 06:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

*At what angle can one shoot through fortifications?
:As far as I'm concerned the angle is pretty sharp - I'd say about 30-25 degree. On close distances the dwarf has to be pretty much in straight line with target. I'm not sure if this applies to fortifications that don't touch walls such as ones in aboveground archery towers or long carved walls. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

*some people claim that you can shoot at attackers from one z level above (thats true for sure), but they cant shoot back. Is this true? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:48, 8 March 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it works great. I think they can shoot down more than 1 z-level but I can't confirm this.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 10:47, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::iirc, they CAN shoot back, they just cant hit well. if you are next to the fortification you are shooting through theres no penalty. trying to shoot through from more than 1 square away is a skill check. if the fortification is up a z-level, the dwarf on the inside will still be next to the fortification, but the enemy can never be, so must alway shoot at a penalty. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:33, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've had goblins shooting back at my fortifications one z-level above and regular crossbowmen have difficulty, but elite goblin crossbowmen can hit and kill in one shot. However, three z-levels above and there's little to no return fire, and my dwarves seem to have better range firing down too (but I can't confirm this for sure). This would make complete sense, as high ground certainly does give a tactical advantage in reality.--[[User:TimE|TimE]] 05:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

*Do fortifications provide support for constructions above? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:Built fortifications provide no support/floor above them.  Not sure about carved fortifications. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:17, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Fortifications act like a floor with a support on it. They do not provide a floor to the tile above them, but I built a 1x1 tower of fortifications five tall that remained even after deconstructing the scaffold, so they definitely support things above them. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:32, 2 December 2008 (EST)

*Can fortifications be carved from metal walls? --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 16:07 28 November 2008 (JST)
:Yes, they can. Just tried it our this weekend. --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 11:19 01 December 2008 (JST)

==Difficulty of firing through fortifications==

It has long been held that there is a penalty to firing through a fortification from a distance, but I haven't observed any such penalty in actual practice.  Can we confirm this through experimentation? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:12, 21 June 2008 (EDT)


Seems like you could set up two or three identical archery targets with fortifications at different distances, and look for busted ammunition near the fortifications.  Any bolt that "splashes" on the fortifications should leave evidence of its passage. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:08, 1 December 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 *At what angle can one shoot through fortifications?
 :As far as I'm concerned the angle is pretty sharp - I'd say about 30-25 degree. On close distances the dwarf has to be pretty much in straight line with target. I'm not sure if this applies to fortifications that don't touch walls such as ones in aboveground archery towers or long carved walls. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
-::Just think of fortifications as of empty space in that concern. Just with a skill check to shoot through. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:20, 3 December 2008 (EST)
 *some people claim that you can shoot at attackers from one z level above (thats true for sure), but they cant shoot back. Is this true? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:48, 8 March 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 26: / Line 25: @@
 ::iirc, they CAN shoot back, they just cant hit well. if you are next to the fortification you are shooting through theres no penalty. trying to shoot through from more than 1 square away is a skill check. if the fortification is up a z-level, the dwarf on the inside will still be next to the fortification, but the enemy can never be, so must alway shoot at a penalty. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:33, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
 ::I've had goblins shooting back at my fortifications one z-level above and regular crossbowmen have difficulty, but elite goblin crossbowmen can hit and kill in one shot. However, three z-levels above and there's little to no return fire, and my dwarves seem to have better range firing down too (but I can't confirm this for sure). This would make complete sense, as high ground certainly does give a tactical advantage in reality.--[[User:TimE|TimE]] 05:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
-:: '''Elite Goblin Archers still bring the pain''' over 1-2 Z-levels of height difference. Beware! --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:10, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 *Do fortifications provide support for constructions above? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
 :Built fortifications provide no support/floor above them.  Not sure about carved fortifications. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:17, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
-:Fortifications act like a floor with a support on it. They do not provide a floor to the tile above them, but I built a 1x1 tower of fortifications five tall that remained even after deconstructing the scaffold, so they definitely support things above them. A fortification is impassible to creatures (except as pushed by liquid flow). --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 18:11, 2 December 2008 (EST)
+:Fortifications act like a floor with a support on it. They do not provide a floor to the tile above them, but I built a 1x1 tower of fortifications five tall that remained even after deconstructing the scaffold, so they definitely support things above them. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:32, 2 December 2008 (EST)
-::Except your dwarves can walk through supports, while they can't fortifications. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:57, 2 December 2008 (EST)
-:::And supports don't provide marksdwarves with cover... was there a point to that remark? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:41, 2 December 2008 (EST)
-::::Yeah, there was. He specifically said that fortifications act like a floor tile with a support on it. This was partially wrong, so I pointed it out.<br>Ryuken: definitely ''not'' flamewar seeds --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:21, 2 December 2008 (EST)
 *Can fortifications be carved from metal walls? --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 16:07 28 November 2008 (JST)
@@ Line 44: / Line 39: @@
 Seems like you could set up two or three identical archery targets with fortifications at different distances, and look for busted ammunition near the fortifications.  Any bolt that "splashes" on the fortifications should leave evidence of its passage. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:08, 1 December 2008 (EST)
-:Doesn't work, they just end up standing in front of the fortifications. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:40, 3 December 2008 (EST)
-you could try building a row of bars or grants in front of and possibly spaced between the fortifications and the Dwarfs. or just two rows of fortifications one they go up to and one between the targets to test.
-Do constructed fortifications provide any defence from projectiles fired from higher z levels? I'm currently building a killing field, and want some way to protect my dwarfs from goblin arrows, while still allowing my marks dwarfs in the raised tower to fill the goblins full of bolts.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)
-== Z-Levels and Distance ==
-How many x/y tiles away from the enemy should fortification be to easily fire down one Z-level? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:51, 12 December 2008 (EST)
-:I think one tile per Z-level is a good rule of thumb. Moats (wet or dry) next to your walls help enforce this. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:11, 23 January 2009 (EST)
-==Prevention of ambushes==
-I assume from personal experience that the law of range with z-level is that for every z-level you go up, the dwarf will get +1 range but at the same time will get a blind spot of +1 from the dwarf. Now the interesting is that if you have marksdwarfs (I am not sure if normal marksdwarfs will work, but it appears elites and champs work for this) on a z-level such that their range extends over the map screen, then ambushes will not appear in this area. I do not know if this holds true if the dwarfs aren't behind fortifications, but if they are it seems this works through repeats of the same save -  ambushes would only appear on parts of the edges not covered in the range of marksdwarfs. However, at the same time my dwarfs won't shoot any goblins that show up because their shooting range is beyond. Anyone else want to test this or have done this? For reference, my marksdwarfs are 12 z-levels up from ground and are 13 tiles from the edge on a side. --[[User:Breakfight|Breakfight]]
-:Well, that would make sense if the game requires ambush units to appear on the map hidden at start. Anyone care to fill the map edge with chained guard dogs? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 12:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::On the forums veterans have stated that the reverse is true - altitude hurts your range.  Effective range on a crossbow should be about 20 tiles, so 12 up and 13 out might be about right. (A bolt will travel further, but marksdwarves don't tend to open fire until targets are about 20 away.)
-::It might also be closer to "restricted traffic" than a "will not appear" situation - the gobbos might naturally just avoid arriving near any dwarfs (with or without crossbows) if they have other options, but if you ringed your map with them they'd still show up ''somewhere''.  Say it with me - "More research is needed."--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-==Constructed vs Carved==
-I've got relatively limited experience with the constructed version, having been hit by return fire the times I've used them. I've never had a shooter hit behind carved. Is there a significant difference or just randomness? [[Special:Contributions/70.240.149.70|70.240.149.70]] 05:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
-== will water inside a fortification freeze? ==
-Will water inside a fortification tile freeze? Can you pump water out of a fortification square?
-Trying to figure out how to build a screw pump tower that won't freeze solid in winter.
-[[User:Calenth|Calenth]] 19:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
-: I've had water freeze inside a constructed fortification (stone) and inside a carved ice one, not sure about carved stone ones though. -- [[User:Melek|Melek]] 08:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
-== Blocking creatures... or not? ==
-It's been commonly assumed that submerged fortifications were capable of blocking swimming creatures in 40d but that flowing water was capable of pushing them through. However, I did a test in Adventurer mode and discovered that a fully submerged (7/7 water) fortification did '''not''' block my path at all - I was able to swim right through it as if it wasn't even there. A carved fortification seemed to block movement, but it was only due to drowning risk; I was able to Alt-move into it, but I started drowning due to the ceiling above me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)