Editing 40d Talk:Stone management

What is considered ''dated'' on this page? Does it still deserve the category/template? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]
:I applied the tag because of the information regarding dumping multiple stones into one tile, because it may be regarded as an exploit that could be removed somewhere down the line. I'm not sure if that's the right way to use that template. If not, just kill it. -- [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 16:32, 5 November 2007 (EST)
::You can expand the stonedumping trick to all sorts of other things. If you just mark every ore you dig up as "dump," and have your dump near where your metal industry is to be formed, then you can just undesignate all the ore at once and have a huge pile of raw materials RIGHT THERE for your smelters. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 17:27, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:::Even better miasma will not travel along diagonals. so you can put a hole in the roof just above one of the tiles past the corner of your craftdwarfs shop and choose dwarves chasm bones, skulls, shells, and all. Then set your fisherdwarves loose. Your dwarves will collect all that rotting fish, and dump it all down that hole where it will rot into bones and shells. Then unforbid it and make tons of crafts from the bones and shells. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 21:37, 15 November 2007 (EST)

== what happened here? ==

Something went wrong somewhere... I'm sorry, I don't know how i managed to screw up this page... :(

I'll leave it alone now... 
-Uberubert
:Don't worry, wikis are built to be reverted to older copies when needed. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 12:01, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:Avoid using the <nowiki><pre> </pre></nowiki> tags when possible.  This causes editing of sections to look correct in previews, but to screw up horribly when saved.  If you want to do fixed-width formatting, prefix lines with a space " ". [[User:Julius|Julius]] 18:27, 15 November 2007 (EST)




== Bookkeeper skill and dumping ==
Does it require a certain bookkeeper skill to dump from the status screen? -Noctune9

:It seems like "per item" stocks screen commands require that you have enough precision to prevent quantity rounding for that item class (stones).  So if your bookkeeper hasn't done enough work, or your bookkeeper's precision setting isn't high enough, you probably can't browse a list of every stone in your fortress, which means you can't dump 'em.  Is that consistent with your situation? --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 12:55, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Minor Edit ==
I changed the "not really necessary" section to reflect that scheduling a rock for a task will make it immovable and block construction, whereas an ignored rock will simply be shoved aside. As such, the only bad rock is a rock the player has a grudge against.--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 23:08, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:The problem is that you can't bump the priority of item hauling - so inevitably, the rock in the way is the last one on the job queue not the first one. If you could get to the jobs screen from the map page and then move items up or down the order list that would go a long way toward fixing the problem with stones being in the way because some dwarf is waiting to haul it to the right spot.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:37, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
::Belatedly - the way around this is to {{k|f}}orbid the rock which is in the way of the construction temporarily, while the rock is forbidden un{{k|s}}uspend the building task. When the building task becomes active again, the rock can be un{{k|f}}orbidden.<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 05:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

== efficiency ==

has anyone actually worked out...
is it more efficient for wall building (quality doesn't matter) to just make your masons do all the walking, or to use a skilled mason (who builds walls quickly) and a bunch of haulers to bring stone a distance of (x)?
I get that there is a distance where you just get the mason to move the stone... beyond that using a high skilled mason is "intuitively" inefficient. But what is the furthest I should have my skilled mason walking to pick up a stone?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:40, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
:It's more efficient to have all your haulers with masonry enabled and the workshop assigned to the skilled mason. He continues to make masterpiece tables, while when you designate an area for construction each hauler grabs a rock, walks up, and DROPS your building into place more or less in one massive step and then goes about their business. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Fixing the 'farthest haul' problem... ==

Does anyone else find the dwarf habit of picking the furthest stone to be a game killer?  Around year two, all progress just stops as my experienced dwarfs are insisting on running down to the mining sites to pick up one stone.  I can manually lock and unlock doors while dumping, but the game takes really takes a nosedive in terms of fun. 

The right solution would be to have a 'dwarves use nearest/farthest item' option.    --[[User:Gizbot|Gizbot]] 09:27, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, and I just tested it. The dwarf use the closest one. If a stone is underneath the mason workshop, it's at a distance of 1. Even if the dwarf have to walk 30 squares, then go down, and walk again 30 squares to come underneath is shop. So a quick trick is to dig stair near his shop, or don't mine under it, and the dwarf will use the "true" closest stone--[[User:Karl|Karl]] 14:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

== Magma melting ==

 ...Any stone disposed of will be chucked into the magma, melt ... and<br /> be gone from your fortress forever. 
Not true (any more?)  I have stones in my magma that have been there for years.  I remember someone claiming these would disappear with the change of seasons (like some above ground rubbish), but it seems this is not (no longer?) the case.  Anyone confirm, or does this need deleting?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
*Temperature enabled? Are the stones magma-safe (perhaps from a mod)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
::No such luck. Trust me when I say it's vanilla 40d, and everything is turned on. And it's not bauxite (alunite, granite & obsidian, iirc.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
::: I just did the test, with a plain vanilla 40d14. Which is like 40d but with a custom graphic engine (I did check if they did change to the raw file, most of them are dated from 2007-2008, so basically, no change). I started right away with an [[Andesite]] channel, dug till I hit the magma pipe, then I dumped some more Andesite stone inside the channel, just to be sure. They all become molten andesite soon enough. Then with the summer come the cleaning, all my molten andesite stones were cleaned away from memory, both the dumped one and the channeled one. It was done under subterranean condition, if it ever change anything for testing purpose. This information reflect what the people have said in the forum too. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 11:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Interesting. I ran that save for 3 more season changes - nuthin'.  Tried forbidding/unforbidding - nuthin'.  The magma channel runs thru both alunite and obsidian - there is no sign of ''any'' obsidian stones (and I'm 100% sure I didn't scavenge them all), just the alunite, and that has a melting point considerably higher than most other stones ([MELTING_POINT:13690][BOILING_POINT:15364] vs 10-12k; obsidian has none listed, so must be some kind of default?) - I'm wondering if not all stones are equally subject to this effect of magma?  Anyone know what the temperature of DF magma is?  Might be that some stones are immune - or that more than just bauxite is magma safe???!!!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::::: Interesting indeed, magma is 12,568° if the information [[Temperature_scale|here]] is right. Where did you find the melting point of alunite ? it seems I can't find it anywhere in the raw. AFAIK, if there's no value in raw, they use the default one (whichever is the default one, I can't find it either). So maybe Alunite is a magma safe stone, too. And a rather easy one to find. Do you have this same entry in your raw file (line 389)? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 18:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 used to make alum, a mordant/deoderant/used in tanning/fire retardent/astringent/preservative, although alunite 
 makes potassium alum and ammonium alum might be the one for tanning
 [MATGLOSS_STONE:ALUNITE]
 [NAME:alunite][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'`']
 [ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:CLUSTER:100]
 [ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:KAOLINITE:CLUSTER:100]
@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 ::No such luck. Trust me when I say it's vanilla 40d, and everything is turned on. And it's not bauxite (alunite, granite & obsidian, iirc.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 ::: I just did the test, with a plain vanilla 40d14. Which is like 40d but with a custom graphic engine (I did check if they did change to the raw file, most of them are dated from 2007-2008, so basically, no change). I started right away with an [[Andesite]] channel, dug till I hit the magma pipe, then I dumped some more Andesite stone inside the channel, just to be sure. They all become molten andesite soon enough. Then with the summer come the cleaning, all my molten andesite stones were cleaned away from memory, both the dumped one and the channeled one. It was done under subterranean condition, if it ever change anything for testing purpose. This information reflect what the people have said in the forum too. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 11:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
-::::''(Responses redacted to remove clutter.  Any discussion below this point was based on my confusion and my mistaken use of corrupted/non-vanilla RAW files, and so adds nothing to this article unless you share my corrupted files. DF wiki does not (as a rule) address modifications or customized game material. Thanks to [[user:Shardok]] for slapping me awake and NOT trusting me. ''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
+::::Interesting. I ran that save for 3 more season changes - nuthin'.  Tried forbidding/unforbidding - nuthin'.  The magma channel runs thru both alunite and obsidian - there is no sign of ''any'' obsidian stones (and I'm 100% sure I didn't scavenge them all), just the alunite, and that has a melting point considerably higher than most other stones ([MELTING_POINT:13690][BOILING_POINT:15364] vs 10-12k; obsidian has none listed, so must be some kind of default?) - I'm wondering if not all stones are equally subject to this effect of magma?  Anyone know what the temperature of DF magma is?  Might be that some stones are immune - or that more than just bauxite is magma safe???!!!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
-These comments can be found commented out in the edit page of this talk for anyone looking to find more information as to what the comments were in such a case as they may have possible usefulness to you.)<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:shardok|shardok]]</small>
+::::: Interesting indeed, magma is 12,568° if the information [[Temperature_scale|here]] is right. Where did you find the melting point of alunite ? it seems I can't find it anywhere in the raw. AFAIK, if there's no value in raw, they use the default one (whichever is the default one, I can't find it either). So maybe Alunite is a magma safe stone, too. And a rather easy one to find. Do you have this same entry in your raw file (line 389)? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 18:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
-<!--::::Interesting. I ran that save for 3 more season changes - nuthin'.  Tried forbidding/unforbidding - nuthin'.  The magma channel runs thru both alunite and obsidian - there is no sign of ''any'' obsidian stones (and I'm 100% sure I didn't scavenge them all), just the alunite, and that has a melting point considerably higher than most other stones ([MELTING_POINT:13690][BOILING_POINT:15364] vs 10-12k; obsidian has none listed, so must be some kind of default?) - I'm wondering if not all stones are equally subject to this effect of magma?  Anyone know what the temperature of DF magma is?  Might be that some stones are immune - or that more than just bauxite is magma safe???!!!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
-::::: Interesting indeed, magma is 12,568° if the information [[Temperature_scale|here]] is right. Where did you find the melting point of alunite ? it seems I can't find it anywhere in the raw. AFAIK, if there's no value in raw, they use the default one (whichever is the default one, I can't find it either). So maybe Alunite is a magma safe stone, too. And a rather easy one to find. Do you have this same entry in your raw file? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 18:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
   used to make alum, a mordant/deoderant/used in tanning/fire retardent/astringent/preservative, although alunite
   makes potassium alum and ammonium alum might be the one for tanning
@@ Line 58: / Line 56: @@
   [ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:CLUSTER:100]
   [ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:KAOLINITE:CLUSTER:100]
-::::::Albedo, you're not running a Vanilla DF. I bet your DF has Orcs in it too, eh? I just downloaded 40d straight from the website and it has the exact same raw information as explained above by Karl, however, I use the Dig Deeper mod myself, which changes Alunite to have the exact melting point and boiling point you mentioned. You sure this isn't DF+Dig Deeper mod? Or do you have another possible explanation? [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Nope - vanilla (except cat mouths and some init changes - but temp is ON).  In fact, my copy got corrupted and I just reloaded fresh.  I have alunite RAWs as mentioned above - I suppose it's possible some echo of a previous install is there??? Not sure how - I "overwrote all", but didn't erase first. <br />Checked this page out - [[Temperature_scale]] - it shows magma ''melting'' @ 12,568° (vs 12,718 for magma-safe steel, vs 13690 for (confirmed '''not''' m-s) alunite!?).  But it lists the actual operating (as opposed to "melting") temp for magma as "between 13-14k".  ''(However, it also refers to the raws, and I can't find magma listed there, only referred to indirectly.)''  Perhaps there is something between magma-safe and not? "Non-melting", yet not enough for m-safe mechanisms.  <br />Did some tests - (my) alunite doors don't melt in magma, even after they deconstruct, altho' obsidian ones do. And while an alunite mech on an obsidian door won't work (the door melts!), an alunite mech on an ''alunite'' door seems to hold when submerged in magma!  4 seasons of immersion and going strong.  Hmmm... but if you can't reproduce that, then somehow my re-install wasn't as clean as I thought. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::You have the wrong raws for where your alunite. Care to show me the download link that you've been using? (the exact link). [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 08:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
-:Well... that sucks! On several levels.  Was trying to edit them in, didn't expect you to be online.  I used the link at the top of the forum page, tho' I can't say which mirror-site I chose. Suppose it's possible some echo of a previous install is there??? Not sure how - I "overwrote all", but didn't erase first. Here's what I have under matgloss_stone_mineral/Alunite:<br />
- '''Melting point 2050 C, boiling point 2980 C. <br />Source: http://www.lookchem.com/cas-134/1344-28-1.html'''<br />used to make alum, a mordant/deoderant/used in <br />tanning/fire retardent/astringent/preservative, although <br />alunite makes potassium alum and ammonium alum might be the one for tanning<br />[MATGLOSS_STONE:ALUNITE]<br />[NAME:alunite][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'`']<br />[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:CLUSTER:100]<br />[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:KAOLINITE:CLUSTER:100]<br />'''[MELTING_POINT:13690]<br />[BOILING_POINT:15364]'''<br />
-:If that's not vanilla, I don't know how I got hold of it.  Maybe I was looking at the mods late one night and got them mixed up? Don't remember doing that, stayed away from them as a rule.  Will have to delete all and do a hard reload. Bleh. Thanks for the heads up. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:59, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
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