Editing 40d Talk:Swimmer

Can you or can a dwarf not swim to the surface the answer says both. Maybe it means in adventurer mode? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]</small>
: It was thought to be impossible, but then someone recorded a movie of a dwarf doing it, so...--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Are we sure that dwarves drown at the same rate with heavy or light equipment if they have swimming skill? Or is it just ones that have no skill?--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I did the test for heavy vs. light, and I did not consider swimming ability. I just drowned two peasants, one in armour and one not. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 05:49, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::Just attempted to test it, but was unsuccesful as my two proficient swimmers climbed out of the pond I was trying to drown them in. So I added that to the article. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:34, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

What are the exact requirements to build a drowning trap. I built a large outlook lake I could floor/empty. After luring some goblins into the area and filling it all to 7/7 the only goblin to drown was the one which stood directly under the area where the water entered from above. It seems that they will only drown if they are in 7/7 water and there is at least 1/7 water above them. Any confirmation/additions welcomed. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 16:49, 2 March 2008 (EST)
:If there is a roof above them they drown in 7/7 otherwise they can tread water, and keep their heads up to breath. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:28, 2 March 2008 (EST)
::I've been dropping some of my caged goblins into a pit designed at the edge of a river, and they have no roof above them but are drowning quite nicely. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 02:17, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Perhaps that's because the goblins are in cages? Maybe an uncaged goblin would be able to swim... on a related note, would it be advisable to place a chain in a swimming pool, to teach prisoners swimming skills? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 13:53, 27 January 2009 (EST)

I've been working on a water-pulse defensive mechanism, using flowing water to push things around, mostly to see if I can. Been getting some help on the DF forums. I'm going to make a few preliminary tests using dwarves as test subjects. In theory this should be a *safe* way to train swimming, because I don't know if continuous pulses of water will do enough drowning damage to kill something. ---[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 02:18, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

== Learn to swim ==

If someone can improve the design, make a clearer image, or write better instructions, please do so. I don't know if what I wrote makes complete sense (it does to me, but then I already *know* what I mean), but it's a start at least. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 14:58, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:How much swimming skill do they tend to gain from the setup?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:24, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::I've not had much time to play with it since getting it working, but I think it'll be a fairly slow process. It could be sped up by widening the inlet channel, enlarging the reservoir and having less grates for drainage, but it also increases the risk of drowning. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 06:11, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarf Washing ==

Is there any actual way to wash blood splatters off a dwarf, in either adventure or fortress mode? Or is Grov's system just for fun? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:52, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
:Captain Mayday might know. I remember reading in Nist Akath that that Captain Ironblod attempted to bathe, but the blood and vomit all over him wouldn't come off. I'm pretty sure this means it doesn't work. Might ask him what version he was using. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 23:33, 24 January 2009 (EST)

== Surface definition ==

"Note that air-breathers will be unable to breathe two levels beneath the surface." What exactly is the surface? The empty space above the water or the topmost level of water? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]</small>
: I think it actually means that air-breathers can't breathe in water deeper than 5/7, although I'll admit I could be wrong. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:21, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::Maybe it means that you can't breathe in the bottom layer of a 2-layer reservoir?  But that's kinda obvious, since it's always 7/7.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:16, 3 November 2008 (EST)


== The Underwater Nom ==

Placing a military dwarf previously ordered to carry two rations and a waterskin in a flooding chamber to teach him to swim, I discovered that dwarves are quite content to eat and drink while swimming, causing the floor of the chamber to be littered with turtle bones and shells from his pack.  Is this the usual behavior, or was my dwarf just confused? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 20:40, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:I seriously doubt Toady could have foreseen that kind of situation, and probably ignored it. Besides, as long as he's not drowning, I don't see any reason he shouldn't eat. I certainly wouldn't let myself starve just because I was in chest deep water :P  --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== A couple observations ==

Swimmers won't path through water even if they're a legendary swimmer. Though, perhaps they should, currently water completely restricts work in the area. Also, dwarves can swim between z-levels. Non-novice swimmers, at least. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Also, on an oddly humorous side note; it appears that carp and longnose gar  can drown. I've only seen it in adventure mode, but it can still happen.

== Saving drowning dwarves ==

how do you do it? what, exactly, do you need to do?<br>i've pretty-much always written 'em off if they've fallen into a river/lake/pond/etc, but i read (in the article) that dwarves would swim to a ramp or such. i've never seen it before, so i didnt think it was possible (hence, the 'swimmer' skill on the embark page always confused me). i've never even seen a dwarf move if they're in water :/   so, what do i need to do to save them? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 21:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarves do not fall into rivers/lakes/ponds/etc except when they are pushed/are pulled/have the floor drop out from under them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 01:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::or 'dodge' into them, or run in after a unicorn they were hunting, yes. i seem to always end up on the map with longnose gar, sturgeon, pike and carp, so alot of my dwarves get pulled in (dispite the restricted traffic areas, and such). and in the article it says they'll swim to the side and go up a ramp or something. quote: "If an untrained or dabbling swimmer jumps into water, four things happen; they start drowning, they are stunned from the impact, they are forced into a prone position, and their movement speed is greatly reduced. The only way to get out of water is to use a ramp or stairway, and if neither are accessible, they're done for.", so.. what do i need to do to give them a chance to get out? where do i put the ramp? on the ground floor, above the water? do i need to dig down into the side of the river, with an ramp? do i need two sets of up/down stairs from the bottom of the river? do i need to construct a wall, door, and a chamber underwater to get them out? what? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::You build the ramp on the same z-level as the river, i.e. "in" the river.  If you look at the picture on the [[Ramp]] page, if the river was flowing over the grey ramp, then the grey ramp would allow them to escape. You can put them pretty much anywhere that will let your dwarves get out of the river. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::::yeah, that's what i suspected. i was terribly worried it'd do something strange, though. might be worth adding that to the article, and add that the ramp turns blue when submerged (or, my 'sandy loam downward slope' has)

== Recovering underwater items ==
Can swimmers recover underwater items?

:Dwarves won't try to recover underwater items no matter how good they are at swimming.  If they try to retrieve something from shallow water, the swimmer skill will keep them from drowning should the water get deeper or they fall into deeper water or something. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 Is there any actual way to wash blood splatters off a dwarf, in either adventure or fortress mode? Or is Grov's system just for fun? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:52, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 :Captain Mayday might know. I remember reading in Nist Akath that that Captain Ironblod attempted to bathe, but the blood and vomit all over him wouldn't come off. I'm pretty sure this means it doesn't work. Might ask him what version he was using. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 23:33, 24 January 2009 (EST)
-::As of version v0.28.181.40d, dwarf washing is not possible, but Toady One has confirmed that the next version will include more hygienic dwarfs and the proper washing thereof. I'll add a note to the article. --[[User:Hlbeta|Hlbeta]] 00:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
-:::I'll believe in the next version when I see it. It's been over a year since the last version update. *pout* -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
-In my understanding rain sometimes washes blood away. ~Naelwyn
 == Surface definition ==
@@ Line 40: / Line 36: @@
 == The Underwater Nom ==
+Placing a military dwarf previously ordered to carry two rations and a waterskin in a flooding chamber to teach him to swim, I discovered that dwarves are quite content to eat and drink while swimming, causing the floor of the chamber to be littered with turtle bones and shells from his pack.  Is this the usual behavior, or was my dwarf just confused? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 20:40, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 :I seriously doubt Toady could have foreseen that kind of situation, and probably ignored it. Besides, as long as he's not drowning, I don't see any reason he shouldn't eat. I certainly wouldn't let myself starve just because I was in chest deep water :P  --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)
@@ Line 46: / Line 43: @@
 Swimmers won't path through water even if they're a legendary swimmer. Though, perhaps they should, currently water completely restricts work in the area. Also, dwarves can swim between z-levels. Non-novice swimmers, at least. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)
-Going to be "hopefully" running a fair number of water tests soon. Results, barring disasterous flooding and extensive casualties, will hopefully be coming soon. ~Naelwyn
+Also, on an oddly humorous side note; it appears that carp and longnose gar  can drown. I've only seen it in adventure mode, but it can still happen.
-Also, on an oddly humorous side note; it appears that carp and longnose gar  can drown. I've only seen it in adventure mode, but it can still happen.--[[USER:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]
 == Saving drowning dwarves ==
@@ Line 66: / Line 61: @@
 :Dwarves won't try to recover underwater items no matter how good they are at swimming.  If they try to retrieve something from shallow water, the swimmer skill will keep them from drowning should the water get deeper or they fall into deeper water or something. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
-== waterfall training method ==
-The waterfall swimming training method doesn't seem to work that well, but it might be my implementation. I thought it was worth trying and built a test circular staircase/waterfall system in an old fort and let it run for a season or two.
-) All my dwarves did gain swimming skill. Absolutely minimal swimming skill -- no more than a few points into dabbling (i.e., 19 to 20 or so skill points).
-) they did get happy waterfall thoughts.
-) babies were separated from parents; the first draft of the stair (before I put gratings at the bottom) killed almost all the puppies and babies in my fort from multi-z-level falls.
-Overall, not sure this is really effective at teaching swimming, although it works fine as a complicated waterfall mist generator. I suspect that the problem is that a pressure plate set to open at 7/7 will close again at 6/7 depth, so you're only dumping one-seventh of the chamber's water, and (I further suspect) that swimming training correlates with the depth and force of the water. So it might be possible to get this basic design to work, but you'd have to really streamline it to dump and drain a massive amount of water over your dwarves, quickly.
-== Useful swimming experience in current version (April 2010)==
-I was rerouting water from my well area (constantly being resupplied from a river) and I accidentally trapped a dwarf inside the bottom of the well.  There was a stairway out that had water flowing down it, and he managed to climb his way up out, only to be swept down again through another passage.  Eventually he made it up and out into the meeting room, sopping wet but still healthy and unshaken by the experience.
-I highly recommend using the Burrows system to make small, custom, one-dwarf burrows if you need fine control of the dwarves.  He was ignoring the stairway out until I did so.