Editing 40d Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan

====Insane merchants?====
I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.

How do I prevent this happening again? Because this lot are starting to putrify...[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:23, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Damned if I know. I now make a habit of locking up the outpost liaison because he's gone insane, often berserk, in every game I've played.
Ever. [[User:PandaKnight|PandaKnight]] 02:45, 17 November 2007 (EST)

:make sure they have a 3x3 path cleared - some trees might have grown since arrival. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
====Caravan roads ====
Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road?  Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:In v33a, no caravans need roads. However, I think the human caravan needs a smoothed, 3-wide path to a map edge - but I'm not certain about this.
:It's probably worth mentioning that roads might speed up a caravan - reducing the chance that they leave before they've unpacked.[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:(Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think you can influence where the caravan appears. I know that both the Elven and Dwarven caravans have ignored my roads when choosing their starting position.)[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:33, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:On a relatively flat and moderately forested map I recently played, each civ seemed to have a preferred side of the map to enter, but were relatively random about where on the edge they appeared.  I built a straight, smoothed road to each edge that went largely unused.  The human wagons are happy to go up and down slopes and cross quite rough (but unobstructed) ground to reach me.  A smooth road would almost certainly speed their arrival and departure.  As an aside, the goblin civ in my current map has been quite happy to start sieges from several different sides, so take the directionality with a grain of salt. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Does the trade depot need to be out side or on the ground level for the Human wagons to reach it. Can I use stairs or do they need a ramp? [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 15:32, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:The level and location doesn't matter, as long as it's reachable from the arrival level on the surface. Which level is the arriving one depends on the map, and is best found using the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Ramps, of course, are needed in place of stairs. If your Depot doesn't show up as accessible using the tool, then look along your planned route for where there isn't a three-tile wide path for them to use. Common causes of blocked access are boulders and trees, the former being removed by smoothing, the latter only being permanently negated using roads, (trees will eventually grow back causing the path to be blocked.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:33, 24 January 2008 (EST)


====Bugged Human Caravans====
I've had a crash bug associated with the arrival of the human caravan.  Interestingly, when I raised my drawbridges, limiting access to my depot to a torturous 1-wide path, the caravan arrived OK with the message along the lines of "the wagons have bypassed this stop." I only got the mule-back traders, but no crash.  This repeated the next year.  I'm guessing this relates to Toady's comments about a seed pricing bug.  It's possible that it's a pathing issue with the wagons, of course. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)
:Since upgrading to 33b, I have not seen this bug.  Hooray! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 22:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

====Caravans immune to drowning?====
Can anybody confirm this? It looks like very unlikely to me... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (EST)

(Samyotix) A Brook is a walkable water tile, even with 7/7 water. Since there's no trees or boulders blocking the way in a brook, these are almost like highways.
On my latest fortress I smoothed out a wide path for the caravans across rocky terrain... imagine my surprise when the traders completely ignored the road and chose the (shorter) route through the Brook :)

== Merge this into [[Trading]] ==

Caravans are only relevant to trading so lets just merge them into that article. No use having the same information spread all over the wiki. I don't have time to do it now. Need to get to work. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)

: I agree. Objections anyone? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Is Archive|Talk:Trading}}
+====Insane merchants?====
-== Insane merchants? ==
 I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.
@@ Line 11: / Line 8: @@
 :make sure they have a 3x3 path cleared - some trees might have grown since arrival. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
+====Caravan roads ====
-== Caravan roads ==
 Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road?  Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)
 :In v33a, no caravans need roads. However, I think the human caravan needs a smoothed, 3-wide path to a map edge - but I'm not certain about this.
@@ Line 23: / Line 18: @@
 :The level and location doesn't matter, as long as it's reachable from the arrival level on the surface. Which level is the arriving one depends on the map, and is best found using the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Ramps, of course, are needed in place of stairs. If your Depot doesn't show up as accessible using the tool, then look along your planned route for where there isn't a three-tile wide path for them to use. Common causes of blocked access are boulders and trees, the former being removed by smoothing, the latter only being permanently negated using roads, (trees will eventually grow back causing the path to be blocked.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:33, 24 January 2008 (EST)
-I have a query about the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Access is currently blocked by a 3 wide door I built at the front of my fortress. Doors are flagged as Passable and Pet-passable. I removed the doors and it now is accessable. Whats the deal? Can't wagons open doors? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 20:16, 3 March 2008 (EST)
-:Nope. Wagons can't open doors. They don't even have any kind of hand-like appendage.
-:Merchants, however, can open doors. If that's what you're thinking of:
-:You did not build a 3-wide door. You built three normal doors. Doors have frames, you know, and so there's essentially this three-wide hallway for the wagon to go through, but with two posts in the middle of it. For the wagon to pass, those need to go. And for those to go, you need to get rid of the doors. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:23, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
-== Bugged Human Caravans ==
+====Bugged Human Caravans====
 I've had a crash bug associated with the arrival of the human caravan.  Interestingly, when I raised my drawbridges, limiting access to my depot to a torturous 1-wide path, the caravan arrived OK with the message along the lines of "the wagons have bypassed this stop." I only got the mule-back traders, but no crash.  This repeated the next year.  I'm guessing this relates to Toady's comments about a seed pricing bug.  It's possible that it's a pathing issue with the wagons, of course. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)
 :Since upgrading to 33b, I have not seen this bug.  Hooray! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 22:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)
-== Caravans immune to drowning? ==
+====Caravans immune to drowning?====
 Can anybody confirm this? It looks like very unlikely to me... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (EST)
 (Samyotix) A Brook is a walkable water tile, even with 7/7 water. Since there's no trees or boulders blocking the way in a brook, these are almost like highways.
 On my latest fortress I smoothed out a wide path for the caravans across rocky terrain... imagine my surprise when the traders completely ignored the road and chose the (shorter) route through the Brook :)
-== Need stuff? Take it for free! ==
-So, I decided I wanted to move my depot to a more secure underground location. I dug out a nice system of tunnels and started to build the depot. Not needing my above ground despot any more, I deconstructed it. I forgot that I currently had a caravan inside my depot, and when I brought the building down all the trader's stuff popped out! The caravan just sat that for a few more mins and then the wagons took off. [[User:The Penguin Protectorate|The Penguin Protectorate]] 07:16, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
-: I think Toady stated once that this is considered seizing and degrades your relations. On the other hand elves and humans dont seem to siege anymore anyway. Ther's also rumors that caravans will eventually stop coming, but I cant confirm this. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:14, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
 == Merge this into [[Trading]] ==
@@ Line 51: / Line 33: @@
 Caravans are only relevant to trading so lets just merge them into that article. No use having the same information spread all over the wiki. I don't have time to do it now. Need to get to work. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)
-:I agree. Objections anyone? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
+: I agree. Objections anyone? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
-::I think that there is enough about caravans specifically that they should keep their own article. Even though they are only good for trading, I don't think the trading article has much to do with what tiles are accessible to caravans, and so on. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 22:24, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
-:::I'd go with Ikk on this. The trading article covers a lot of this article and the rest is small enough to be put in another article, so, therefore, it all should go to trading. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 27 March 2008 (EDT)