Editing 40d Talk:Wear

I thought prepared food wore as well, but a quit check of my stockpiles indicates otherwise.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 23:48, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Can certain attackers (like trolls) attack and damage built structures in this version like in the 2D version?  If so, that should be mentioned in the article.  [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:52, 16 February 2008 (EST)

It seems fish, raw fish and meat is really the only food subject to wear - not even milk or cheese are affected. If Seeds show wear then only after a very long time (3+years) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:00, 21 February 2008 (EST)

== Vermin ==

I suspect that the chief cause of wear on food is because of vermin, and that nothing else causes wear on food.  I think someone should verify this experimentally (I'll probably do it if no one else feels the urge).

; Procedure
# Stockpile food until at least five years' worth of meat and crops have been gathered.
# Ensure that all basic dwarven needs are fulfilled.  Include dry screw pumps so everyone can remain satisfied at work.  Create a pump system which provides a permanent water source.
#* One problem is there is no means of protecting against strange moods and/or ensuring that moods can be fulfilled.  Should stockpile objects from every category?
# Clear all jobs from the dwarves and allow everyone to idle.  Slash and burn all crops, slaughter all lifeforms, and seal off the cave complex.
# Create at least fifty small animal traps.
# Save game and create a back up of that save.
# From the backup, create two folders: "experiment" and "control".
# Load the control fortress.
# Run the "control" fortress for a span of five years.  Do not interact with the simulation.
# Save the "control" fortress.
# Load the experiment fortress.  Assign the Trapping labour to everyone.
# Run the "experiment" fortress for a span of five years.  Ensure the manager screen is always filled with "Catch a live animal" jobs.  Do not otherwise interact with the simulation.
# Save the "experiment" fortress.
# Compare the stockpiles of the control fortress to the experiment fortress.
# Repeat procedure as many times as needed to improve certainty.

;Hypothesis
* The control fortress will have considerably less food than the experiment fortress. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:JT|JT]]</small>

:An alternative would be to mod out all vermin. I strongly suspect that food will rot even without vermin. Temperature is involved. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:46, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
::I've had meat stored in barrels for close to a decade and none of it has experienced any wear, and this was in a fortress where cats had driven all indoor vermin (lizards, roaches, rats, etc.) completely to extinction. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:54, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

== Worn Clothing ==

Does the clothing problem still occur in late game? (Dwarves' clothing getting too rotten, so many go naked.)--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:08, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've got a fortress that's been going for a while, and there are indeed a lot of dwarves that are either naked or else wearing nothing but XXitemXX clothing (and thus soon to be naked).  Some are still reasonably well-clothed though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:53, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
:: I assume you're not running a clothing industry? Meaning, won't they get new clothes if there are some available? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:15, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:::In my testing, I've seen them grab trousers, socks, shoes, and either a robe or a coat.  I think they'll put on dresses too.  They don't put on mittens, hoods, gloves, or even caps for some reason.  Haven't experimented with shirt, tunic, or vest yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:17, 8 November 2008 (EST)
:::Update: they'll put on shirts, but not tunics, vests, or dresses.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:35, 9 November 2008 (EST)
:::No, wait, a champion of mine just put on a tunic when I switched his armor level.  Aha, I see what it is: shirts, tunics, and dresses are "under" armor layer, so they'll only put them on if they don't have an "over" garment (toga, vest, coat, or robe).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:29, 9 November 2008 (EST)
:::: That seems like a flaw. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:02, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::The whole clothing system could use an overhaul.  The clothing-on-putting system, that is.  Even though caps are "over" layers, dwarves don't put them on.  Based on other observed behaviors, I suspect military dwarves will put one on (cloth or leather, that is) if set to "clothing" armor level.  They'll put on a metal cap if set to leather.

:::::I'm pretty sure they won't put on new socks (under) if they're still wearing shoes (over).  For a second I surmised that they won't also won't put on an over layer (ooh, itchy) unless they're already wearing an under layer.  But they never put on gloves.  They also never put on "cover" layers (cloak, cape, mittens, hood) -- the infamous exception being the Dungeon Master, who will wear a dozen cloaks, given the chance.

:::::I still haven't figured out the whole "permit/size" thing (see [[armor]]).  I believe they can wear coat+leather+chain+plate, but for some reason when they've got two coats on, they'll remove the chain (and possibly the leather armor) to put on plate.  They'll wear two pairs of socks sometimes too.  At first I surmised that they seek out new clothing when the current stuff is XX-level wear (and they don't necessarily remove the worn-out stuff first), but here's one with two brand-new left socks and one brand-new right sock.  And there's a huge pile of old socks and shoes on my clothier's shop, ranging from x wear to XX, which means sometimes they do remove old stuff.  And apparently they'll remove old shoes to put on socks, and then fail to put the shoes on again.

:::::This is the point at which a large red question mark blinks across my face.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:47, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::::Oh, lovely. Now, I'll be spending the next hour reviewing all the clothing my dwarves are wearing instead of doing important things, like trying to get my dwarves to load all my crossbow traps with used bolts. Would it be wrong to blame you for this? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 00:16, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::You should be thanking me for distracting you.  (Crossbow traps?  You ''are'' a masochist.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:04, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::: Of course crossbow traps! It's all part my [[User:RomeoFalling|Empire of Sand And Bone]]. Is there any other weapon you can make out of cat bone? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 06:08, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::::Admittedly, no, though I like glass corkscrews for their glinty screwiness -- that is, if you're willing to give the 'sand' half its due.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:54, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Okay, new information: I made a shirt and a vest to see what would happen.  The shirt is on a dwarf in the following order: XXdressXX, shirt, XXcoatXX.  The vest is on a different dwarf with the following upper body clothing: xdressx, xrobex, then the vest.

:::::I guess it has to do with some interaction of [LAYER], [LAYER_SIZE], and [LAYER_PERMIT], though the exact details are still confusing to me.  [[Armor]] talks about LAYER_PERMIT, but what's written there is far from clear.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Bones ==
Are bones included in stuff that wears away even in stockpiles?(or do they wear away more quickly when outdoors?) I've been piling goblin skulls / bones on the roof of my fortress inside refuse stockpiles, and then forbidding them so they don't get used in crafts projects, but they disappeared... [[User:Cromage|Cromage]] 14:48, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:Don't dogs eat bones over time? --[[User:Nillions|nil]]
:: Pet don't eat at all AFAIK. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 00:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I stockpile my bones and skulls also but i do it in a dumping pit below ground, where i dump all the corpses, cause if its above ground the bones and skulls disappear after every year, i think it might be every season i dunno. --[[User:Zulaf|Zulaf]] 15:06, 17 February 2009 (EST)
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	I stockpile my bones and skulls also but i do it in a dumping pit below ground, where i dump all the corpses, cause if its above ground the bones and skulls disappear after every year, i think it might be every season i dunno. --[[User:Zulaf\|Zulaf]] 15:06, 17 February 2009 (EST)		I stockpile my bones and skulls also but i do it in a dumping pit below ground, where i dump all the corpses, cause if its above ground the bones and skulls disappear after every year, i think it might be every season i dunno. --[[User:Zulaf\|Zulaf]] 15:06, 17 February 2009 (EST)
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−	:Refuse outside is regularly cleaned up by the game. A dump zone inside your fortress (preferably behind a few doors to help contain the miasma) along with setting your refuse {{k\|o}}rders to dump shells, skulls, and other, (and optionally bones) will place them all in a save spot for storage. You can remove the other order, and place a stockpile outside still, but I generally wouldn't suggest an outdoors pile, as it can easily expose your dwarves to danger, without giving any useful benefits. Personally, I order my dwarves to dump shells, skulls, and other, and build a refuse pile next to my tanner, butcher, and craftshop, that only accepts bones, corpses and body parts, remains, and fresh skins. This setup pretty much filters out the junk from the useful items for you, and anytime you need to get a shell or skull for your moody dwarf, just unforbid a single one, and they'll claim it. (You can unforbid the whole tile, but that will usually create a LOT of hauling jobs.) Oh, and thus far, no animal eats anything. Related tags seem to only be there for future use. --[[User:N9103\|Edward]] 23:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)