Editing Talk:Main Page/Quote

<span style="color:#FF0000;background:#00FF00">'''BIG BOLD & UGLY WARNING: Extreme levels of stupidity makes the administrator step in.  When the administrator steps in, pages disappear or get locked.'''</span> --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== How to add quotes: ==

# Edit the [[Main Page/Quote/list|list]]
# Add each quote on its own line above the last line (starting with &lt;noinclude>)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion:<br>
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

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# [[Talk:Main Page/Quote/archive1|Archive 1]]
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== Redirects in Quotes ==

Do you guys really think we should have [[]]'s in quotes? They mights help a bit, but it seems to take away a bit of the vibe. Thoughts about taking them down?
:I think the links are appropriate for drawing in and directing new users. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Inappropriate Undo ==

While you are free to re-add a removed quote, removal is a call to review those quotes which were removed.  Undo is a blatant violation of that, as it doesn't necessitate even *looking* at what was removed.  As such, I am undoing the undo, and ask that if the person wishes to re-add any of the quotes that he deliberately re-add the ones he actually thinks are funny. (Do note I moved a couple around because it was easier instead of de-incrementing numbers).  Also, re-adding necessitates a discussion on this page - please have one before re-adding. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
: I want them back, 4 of the 5 were funny as they were, and there's no need to trim them since they doesnt break the page layout. Actually, I find your undo of the undo annoying, since they were fine quotes.  --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::I deleted more than 5... =P  And I moved some because it was easier than changing numbers.  Which ones did you think were funny - I mean, we can have the discussion, but we need to have a discussion before they get re-added.  (Also, the carp one is totally funnier with just the game quote) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Seriously, Guys ==

I forget DF for a few months and you remove almost an entire kilobyte of quotes, along with the stupid goatse one which, while awful, was long since victorious in the protracted and bitter war over whether it should stay and in what form.  Yes, it's quite clear you don't like some quotes.  Yes, anyone is allowed to remove quotes but it's almost always the same very few people that do so, and the rules are clearly designed in your favor(delete anything you want with no justification, but add things only once unless you can change the deleter's mind).  Would it kill you to at least '''add''' a little content to this page alongside removing so much?  If I decided the main page was ugly and REMOVED IT wouldn't that still be a loss of content?  Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

::Corona688, you have argued that the current system for deleting and undeleting quotes is bad. You have asked people who have removed quotes to be constructive instead. Let's turn this request around: when it comes to the issue of quote policy, please be constructive instead. I am sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with your complaints about the current system. They are all valid. However, despite these shortcomings, nobody has come up with a better one. If we decided the current policy was bad and just removed it without replacement, we would be worse off. "''Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave?''".  [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I have '''already''' suggested '''several''' things before.  If you think I have no ideas, you haven't been paying attention.  For the record, here are some I've suggested before:
::::Don't delete quote content if you can't put something else in its place!
::::Reverse the process -- make deleting harder than adding.
::::Utilize a '''little''' self-control to realize that your personal preferences don't define funny for the entire world.
:::How's that? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Could you be a little more specific? I'm not sure how you would go about actually implementing such a system. An example ruleset would help clear things up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't remove the goatsects one, and while i didn't find it funny, i did respect the consensus of the talk page regarding it.  The one quote i did add was removed in like a month.
:However, removing stuff from this page is as important as adding stuff - both types of people are needed to ensure a quality page.  Otherwise we end up either with lots of crappy quotes or very few quotes.  So don't disparage one side of the equation - both are essential.  That said, expecting the people adding things to be funnier wouldn't be too much to expect, would it?  There's still a lot of not funny in the quote list, and a few that could be funny with a little editing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, we need both.  Not many folks would bother adding quotes more than once as is though, so we're seeing a net loss of content.  I don't think the primary deleters here represent the One And Only True Correct Sense Of Humor&#x2122;&#x00AE;&#x24D2;, and the rules as is unfairly pit content creators against them.  Almost nobody cares one way or another except about their own quotes, you can't expect a consensus to readd when a good one is deleted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:::We are not experiencing a net loss of content. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Of course not.  Which is why the file keeps getting smaller. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Ok, that's enough ==

Squirrelloid, you have your own humor, but don't try to impose it on other people. If you don't find something funny doesn't mean you have to remove it. 

You removed these 3 lines with your last edit :
* had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09
* Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
* Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones.

The last one is taken from an epic forum topic, the second one is funny because of the focus the dwarf have on olivine. The first one is  from the dev log... 

By the way, where is it written than quote MUST be funny ? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Re: Readding quotes
::One person is hardly consensus.  Page policy:
:::"If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion."
:::"If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added."
::I certainly don't feel you've met the burden of that, and I certainly don't find those quotes funny.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


::: Make it two, with corona, there's no definite number of people needed AFAIK --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Corona doesn't come down in favor of any particular quotes actually, nor did he contribute to the relevant discussion. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::By the time I find out about these massive content deletions it's usually weeks too late to do a darn thing.  I'm not here continually. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

::Also, you can't just go re-instating an old version if there's multiple subsequent versions.  You actually deleted new material.
::On those specific quotes.  The Dev log quote sucks.  The delivery is awful.  There may be a good line with the same base material, but that is certainly not it.
::The second one is clearly not in-game, because its impossible to generate that, which severely detracts from its humor value.  
::And I don't care how epic the thread was, the quote isn't at all interesting.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, YOUR modification were not funny. So I removed them. If you want them back, you have to do a call for opinion :) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which, my new quote or my modification of the carp one?  If you want to *remove* either, by all means, its your right.  But to re-add the old material requires consensus on each and every individual quote, not just reverting.  Its a violation of page policy.  So stop.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which you'll never, ever, ever get, and you know full well you'll never, ever, ever get.  All it takes to break a consensus is you...  The page policy is crafted carefully in your favor and you know it.  Why don't YOU quit it?  --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Request for opinion - Deleted quote ==

Since we have someone not funny at all who try to impose is humor, or lack of, on us, and since the guideline are there, even if they are not really clear or useful as stated by corona866... Here's a request for opinion on deleted quote. 

Here's the list, just add under it if you want them back, or not. That way, no one is going to cry. In 2 weeks, enough time for the regular contributor to see this topic, we could add them back or not. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
* ;-) --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

=== I had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09 ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  The language is confused, and the sentence after the ellipsis is redundant with the first part. (If its shot off, of course its removed...) Basically, this is a horrible mess of a line, and since its actually a direct quote it can't be modified (although it could be snipped - i could be convinced the line through the ellipsis is worth keeping, but i'd need to be convinced) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::This sentence actually makes perfect sense. He had his toe shot off. He comments that it was able to be shot off because it was just narrow enough. I found this dev log funny when I read it. I don't see any reason not to re-add this one. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
==="So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  That's like every fortress ever?  There is nothing surprising, interesting, or amusing about this quote --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Another one that actually has some humor at times. I mean, really, you can't expect all the quotes to be grade A funny. This one does have some hilarity to it because it actually is possible to have insane impact on the entire world despite only running a single fortress. Such as when suddenly the entire Elven population seems to have dwindled due to massive wars with your fortress. I think it's a nice one that should be in the quotes. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, I can expect all the quotes to be grade A funny.  That's the whole point of the page policy as it stands - bad quotes get removed and only the good ones remain.  Fighting for quotes you know to be subpar defeats this purpose. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::See my reply to your other post. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 07:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:I want this one in, obviously.  The context is they'd killed their King by accident somehow, so they really did destroy all of dwarven civillization above and beyond what most games usually do. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:56, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  Utterly boring, and clearly artificial since the game cannot generate that as a set of prefstrings. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is a good one. And Not artificial. This came from the dwarves that were generated randomly by ToadyOne to show off the new likes/dislikes/appearance/etc. It just so happened most of them liked olivine, a lot. Some liked it twice, and one crazy dwarf, Sarvesh, only liked it. And nothing else. I think it should be added back [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back.  It's funny.  --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:I like it [[User:Kogut|Kogut]] 08:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

=== Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  Boring, and are mermaids even butcherable?  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Not the best. One of the few I don't much see a use for. Mainly because it'd be funnier if the creature in question were a different animal. Like a cat. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Don't like this one, myself. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:I'd like to see this one back, along with a link to the page, or possibly another quote from that thread. Like the disturbing strategy to insure a constant supply of baby merpeople. --[[User:Nivm|Nivm]] 00:19, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
:This is from a hilarious thread. Here's the link to it: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.0 That is both the first page of the thread and the part with that particular quote. I also REALLY want that one. It's epic. --[[Special:Contributions/97.121.190.196|97.121.190.196]] 06:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

=== If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...> ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  The material could be reworked, but the current presentation is crap. Would favor a reworded version of the same material. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:I'd only be okay with this one if it weren't so utterly annoying. "What the lever did" would work just the same and wouldn't look as stupid. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny.  I'd like it back.  And no, neutering it doesn't make it funnier Shardok...  --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
::So it should instead say "If I ''remembered'' what the fucking lever did, I'd ''pull'' it!" Because plain and simple, what I am saying is that the &%^#*@! looks like shit. It's not to do with the Language. It's to do with that it uses a stupid way of presenting it by using the symbols instead. They look plain stupid and honestly shouldn't be necessary on the wiki. Even just normal * instead would look better, but I don't see the need to keep the symbols as they are. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== <nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki><br />Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  Don't see the value in posting something that every single player has probably thought at least 10 times.  Its not noteworthy, much less funny or interesting. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I think it is a good quote just because every single player has probably thought at least 10 times... It´s typical DF. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::But why does that make it quote-worthy?  It is neither especially witty, noteworthy, or interesting.  I mean, there's lots of typical DF things that make for very poor quotes.  You'll notice they *aren't on this page*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I think there are more poor quotes *on this page*, but I don´t think this one would be one of them. Just my opinion, let´s see what others think. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ok, i definitely agree there are more poor quotes on the page.  But every time i remove a handful someone throws a hissy fit. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::If there's protest every time you delete...  well...  think about it! --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Because some people just like to whine whenever something gets removed?  I'd rather not see a 150 page quote list with maybe 30 that are worth keeping. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::And yet most people Would rather see more quotes, that aren't necessarily *great* quotes than to end up seeing the Exact same quotes over and over again. It gets boring when it shows the same ones you've seen day after day, even if each of them is a grade A quote. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 07:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::There are 80 quotes on the page not counting these.  At 1/day, 30 quotes gives you a full month of new material.  60 quotes would seem to trivially meet your standard. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:55, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:This follows a common logic that many people start to notice. It's nice to warn users with the quotes and they don't all have to be jokes. I think it should be added in[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny and true, so I think it deserves in. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:Uninteresting [[User:Kogut|Kogut]] 08:45, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

=== Game Features: How much you ''want''?  System Requirements: How much you ''got''? ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want.  Boring. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Dislike. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I liked this one.  Not love, but liked.  Let's have it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:Uninteresting, unfunny [[User:Kogut|Kogut]] 08:46, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Greetings, earthlings ==

:Oh hai.  I suggest that everyone take a deep breath and step outside for a moment.  After breathing in a nice, fresh, cleansing lungful of air, come back inside and sit back down.  No one here has crafted a page policy to deviously support their own views, and no one here is out to destroy the wiki.  

:Name calling and insinuations are what I'd expect from a gradeschooler, and most definitely not from editors of this wiki.  I'm not going to step into this discussion any more unless I feel I have to in order to keep things civil. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 15:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

::Here's what's going to happen: the quote page will remain locked for 1 week.  Figure out what the consensus is on policy for the quotes page.  If a consensus is not reached within a week, it will be deleted and protected from recreation until a consensus is reached.  I will not help form a consensus on policy on this page, since I am of the opinion that this page serves no useful purpose. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Recently removed quotes ==

Karl is continually removing every quote I add to the page, apparently solely because i insisted on enforcing page policy regarding removed quotes.  There's removing quotes because you thought they were bad, and removing quotes solely because of who added them.  Needless to say, this behavior is inappropriate.
:If this is the case (Wertfreie Aussage / did not follow everything what happened), you are right, but it would NOT be against rules, so maybe rules schould be changed: Will we have to diskus every change (adding an removing) here? --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 20:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Here I'm asking for consensus on re-adding the last 3 removed quotes (all of which are leaps and bounds better than those on referendum above).  I might also add none of them are my work (one is from the wiki, 2 are from the forums).  The quotes:

Kara Mase, the Glory of Amusing: Engraved on the wall is an image of a dwarf and an elf.  The dwarf is committing a depraved act on the elf.
:readd (this one is cool) --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 20:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

'They're firing arrows at us! Quickly! Raise the babies!!' -Urdim McSquadLeader, mother of 8
:readd --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 20:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

...it was found that 40% of pioneer dwarves left the Mountainhome due to "framerate issues," with a margin of error of ±Booze. --Center for Dwarven Advancement

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

==Quote Page Policy==
I am of the opinion that the existing quote page works so long as editors edit with the motivation of improving the page.

The existing process is even working.  Of the quotes i originally removed, 7 were called to a referendum, they each have 5 votes at this point:

(Toe shot off with crossbow): 2-2-1, move to re-add does not pass at present.<br>
(destroy dwarven civ): 3-2, move to re-add is currently passing.<br>
(Likes olivine): 4-1, move to re-add currently passing <br>
(butchering mermaids): 1-4, move to re-add does not pass at present<br>
(damn lever): 3-2, move to re-add currently passing<br>
(facepalm): 4-1, move to re-add currently passing<br>
(game features): 2-3, move to re-add does not pass at present<br>

Now, there's a week left to go, but if we were to stop now and act based on it, we'd see 4 should be re-added based on consensus, 3 failed to achieve consensus, (and ~1 wasn't even nominated for re-adding).  Thus I don't think its the page policy that is a problem.

As to the purpose of the page being humor, well, the content of this talk page speaks fairly well to that, as does the nature of most of the existing quotes.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

==New Quotes==
Since the page is currently locked, archiving some stuff I'd like to add:

:This is a masterfully designed image of a werewolf and a dwarf. The werewolf is giving birth to itself. The dwarf is screaming in terror.  It menaces with rings of paradox. 
:Dong was a deity that occurs in the myths of The Trim Worried Sin.  Dong was most often depicted as a male orc and was associated with prgnancy, birth, and children.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== New quote policy ? ==
As we can clearly see, not a lot of people cares about quotes. Only one person responded to Squirrelloid after I deleted 3 quotes added by him. So it is clear that the policy right now is not working, it's easier to remove something, since no one is going to do the effort of adding it back.

Since everyone doesn't have the same sense of humor, I propose that we reverse the process, putting to a referendum the removal of any added quote instead. This way, we don't have to fight the lack of humor from a particular editor, with a vote that no one cares. If a quote is clearly not wanted, it will show by itself with a vote, since it is easier to remove stuff that add it back.

I would like to point out too, that it's written nowhere that quote must be grade A funny.--[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

== Context? ==
Removed a quote - "And then it crashed" -Toady - because it has absolutely no context.  If someone cares to supply the context, and it fits within the character limit with that fragment, by all means re-add. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:The 4/6/10, 2/3/10, or 2/2/10 dev log pages might have something that fits your needs.  Personally, I find 4/6 (lots of bad, bad things) or 2/2 (bizzare dance) to probably be suitable.  Formatting would be someone else's job, though. --[[User:Ryun|Ryun]] 19:21, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== Are quotes broken? ==

More than a week I see the same quote on the main page, a one about Urdim and a glumprong blowgun. Am I the only person with that problem or something is really broken?