Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page/archive2"

Latest revision as of 18:51, 28 June 2013

This is an archive of old discussions. Please do not edit this page – instead, add new comments to the current talk page.

embiggen release notices?[edit]

I for one am hugely excited about the size of this release. Can we promote it a bit more?

Page visit counter[edit]

Before the wiki move, (I think), every game article had a web counter at the bottom of the page. It used to be pretty neat. You could create an article and then see how many hits it was getting down at the bottom. It was one incentive to expand on the article, knowing that thousands were reading it.

I think and vote that this should be brought back. --Richards 21:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The amount of load this causes on the servers is cost prohibitive. --Briess 01:46, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Two DF2010 main pages[edit]

Why are there two DF2010 main pages? When I check the wiki, I see the one with the missing hydra heads image, and the http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page address, but when I check the 40d version and go back to DF2010 main page, I get Belal's tileset image and the http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Main_Page address. Then, when I check the discussion page and return to the main page, it's http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page again. Is redirecting messed up or what? --109.93.118.60 09:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

There is only one main page for DF2010 - the image shown on it is randomly selected. The page DF2010:Main Page is just a redirect to Main Page. --Quietust 12:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Except that one shows "28.3 out of 100 quality rating for DF2010 namespace (approximate)" and the other shows: "29.8 out of 100 quality rating for DF2010 namespace (approximate)". Not to mention that the page that contains "(Redirected from DF2010:Main Page)" in the top left corner is http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Main_Page It redirects to itself. Also, I get one image on the DF2010:Main_Page, and a different one one at Main_Page. When I check DF2010:Main_Page, it's the first picture again. I made sure that it isn't the same page already. Repeat the steps I mentioned in my first comment and see for yourself. It's not a redirect, those are two different pages. --109.93.118.60 17:05, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

DF2010:Main Page - Redirect page - Main Page. It is a redirect. When you load a redirect page, it does not actually forward you to the destination page but simply displays it immediately, so the redirect's URL is still in the address bar. Either your web browser or the server itself is caching different versions of the page depending on whether or not you viewed it through the redirect. --Quietust 17:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, it stopped happening after the new-version change of the main page, whatever the cause was. Thanks anyway. --79.101.254.106 19:30, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

HFS creatures[edit]

We don't seem to have any pages for them, shouldn't they have pages like normal creatures? --78.151.176.4 13:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Aren't they randomly generated during worldgen?--SanDiego 13:29, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh right, didn't realise that. Thought that they were just lacking raws. --92.29.248.178 14:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, you're both right :P. They're randomly generated, and they lack raws! --612DwarfAvenue 06:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Random page function[edit]

I'm not familiar with how the Special:Random function works, but would it be possible to restrict it to random pages from particular namespaces? Getting 23a, 40d and DF2010 pages returned isn't very helpful. Oddtwang of Dork 16:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

That would require (iirc) some fairly heavy editing to the mediawiki code. We're trying to avoid modding the code because that creates problems with updating the mediawiki software to new versions. Emi [T] 18:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Just a little correction, you an get to just DF2010 pages by appending "/DF2010" to the end of special random.

For example. Special:Random/DF2010, Special:Random/Utility, ect.

Perhaps this link might be useful as a more available link? Mason ^(T-C) 00:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

DF2010 Title needs changing[edit]

The new version is now df_31_01 and each article beginning with "DF2010" seems tacky. Any others agree it should be changed to df31 or something around like that? Richards 19:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that we version the wiki for each game-save compatibility change. Simply changing it to 31.01 would fix it now, but when 31.02 - 39.07 come out, and then finally 40.01 comes out that breaks save compatibility, we have much more work to do. Until we know the final version number in the series, it's not easy for us to just say "oh, this is it." --Briess 20:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

And wtf is the precedent? In all the versions of the wiki I've seen, versions are always specified as the actual number. How is it more clear to use DF2010 instead of v0.31.01? --Peewee 09:57, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

If you aren't planning to make more special version namespaces for a while, let's use the main namespace. Also, you guys really need to talk things out more before implementing giant sweeping changes. The more I see you describe your respective visions for the wiki, the more different they seem from each other. VengefulDonut 11:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Well. A solution would be to make every article title for the current version just say the article name, ex/ instead of "DF2010:Armor", make it "Armor", like last time. If a new version is released that is different, then archive it as whatever version it last applied to, like "40d:Armor, or 31.01:Armor". Is there any problem with this idea? Richards 14:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is. (Namely, the amount of labor you're talking about if pages are not set-up for that.)

Here's "The Plan", which was set up a couple months ago (and which has been discussed elsewhere, but we'll do it one more time)...

Old versions are clearly labeled and consistently linked internally. All 40d links bounce around only to 40d articles, so if a player is researching that version, it's all one package. (Same w/ 23a, the "2-D" version previous to that, but an ongoing and lower-priority project.)
"New" versions are, likewise, consistent within themselves. Versionless search terms (like "stone" automatically default to "current version".
Future versions get their own version names, "current" becomes one-older, and the pattern continues.

The current PROBLEM is three-fold - the first is the changeover itself, when first time Editors start firing away at articles without the correct names or understanding The Plan. That is understandable, but compounded by the fact that we don't currently know the "proper" version number to use - is it 0.31.01, or 0.31, or 31.01 - when the first bugfix comes out, what will be changed and what kept? What part of that number constitutes/defines this as a "version"? There is no equiv of 23.a or 40.d - it's a new code, and we weren't given the codebook. (We're waiting on Three-toe/Toady for a response on that.) The 3rd problem is "DF2010" - which is wrong, but while popular and everyone is using it, it won't be very friendly later down the road.

So... we've got something that works now but won't in the future, and needs to be changed to be consistent so we don't bequeath future Admin and users the big bone. A diff between more work now and the sort of complete cluster that has gone on behind the scenes for the last 2 months preparing for this change - which is going SO MUCH SMOOTHER NOW (believe it or not!) because of that (thankless, ahem) preparation.

Once we know the correct version, all current articles will appear as that. Search terms will default to current version. Older articles will be consistent within their own namespace. AND we'll be setup for future version changes without quite so much trauma (which is why some of the more obscure of these changes are being implemented). Clear as mud?--Albedo 19:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Are you basically trying to say that DF2010 is a convenient placeholder string that can be used to identify and move articles by bot when we get a stable version number from Toady? --Squirrelloid 19:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Dammit, if I could express myself in anything less than 500 words at a time, I would have! (Yes, that's basically what I'm saying.)--Albedo 19:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure who wins the eloquence award here. Anyways, we're still waiting on information from ToadyOne before we rename DF2010 to something else more appropriate. --Briess 19:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Toady has already said that he plans to aim for possibly as often as a weekly bugfix release while the early issues of this release get ironed out. Trying to keep up with release number changes weekly would be an absolute nightmare. Until things calm down a bit I don't blame anyone here in the least for using DF2010 as a more general version name. Doctorzuber 15:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It is understood that Toady intends (ideally) for this to be both the last save-compat breaking version and the last major long-delay version... correct? Putting the entire Wiki in a namespace forever seems to me like a fairly terrible idea in any case, but it is intended for future versions to change much less of existing stuff as things go on (that is why this version took so long, in part, to get all the sweeping structural changes out of the way.) It is unlikely that there will ever be another version that would require reversioning the entire wiki, if, indeed, you think that even this one reached that level. While I'm not sure I'd agree that it was necessary to reversion the wiki for this version, the DF development plan is certainly intended to be such that revisioning the Wiki like this will never be necessary again. --Aquillion 03:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that for the immediate near future a large number of incremental bug fix releases are to be expected. To avoid driving people completely nuts trying to keep up with frequent version changes it makes sense to use the DF2010 title in the short term. After we see things settle down a bit I agree we should probably go ahead and retu

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Archive|
+{{is Archive|Talk:Main Page}}
-# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
-}}
+== embiggen release notices? ==
+I for one am hugely excited about the size of this release.  Can we promote it a bit more?
+== Page visit counter ==
+Before the wiki move, (I think), every game article had a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_counter web counter] at the bottom of the page. It used to be pretty neat. You could create an article and then see how many hits it was getting down at the bottom. It was one incentive to expand on the article, knowing that thousands were reading it.
+I think and vote that this should be brought back. --[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
+: The amount of load this causes on the servers is cost prohibitive.  --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 01:46, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
+== Two DF2010 main pages ==
+Why are there two DF2010 main pages? When I check the wiki, I see the one with the missing hydra heads image, and the http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page address, but when I check the 40d version and go back to DF2010 main page, I get Belal's tileset image and the http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Main_Page address. Then, when I check the discussion page and return to the main page, it's http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page again. Is redirecting messed up or what? --[[Special:Contributions/109.93.118.60|109.93.118.60]] 09:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+:There is only one main page for DF2010 - the image shown on it is '''randomly selected'''. The page [[DF2010:Main Page]] is just a redirect to [[Main Page]]. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+Except that one shows "'''28.3 out of 100 quality rating for DF2010 namespace (approximate)'''" and the other shows: "'''29.8 out of 100 quality rating for DF2010 namespace (approximate)'''". Not to mention that the page that contains "''(Redirected from DF2010:Main Page)''" in the top left corner is ''http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Main_Page'' It redirects to itself. Also, I get one image on the DF2010:Main_Page, and a different one one at Main_Page. When I check DF2010:Main_Page, it's the first picture again. I made sure that it isn't the same page already. Repeat the steps I mentioned in my first comment and see for yourself. It's not a redirect, those are two different pages. --[[Special:Contributions/109.93.118.60|109.93.118.60]] 17:05, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+::[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010:Main_Page&redirect=no DF2010:Main Page - Redirect page - Main Page]. It is a redirect. When you load a redirect page, it does not actually forward you to the destination page but simply displays it immediately, so the redirect's URL is still in the address bar. Either your web browser or the server itself is caching different versions of the page depending on whether or not you viewed it through the redirect.  --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+Well, it stopped happening after the new-version change of the main page, whatever the cause was. Thanks anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/79.101.254.106|79.101.254.106]] 19:30, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+== HFS creatures ==
+We don't seem to have any pages for them, shouldn't they have pages like normal creatures? --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 13:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
+:Aren't they randomly generated during worldgen?--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:29, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
+Oh right, didn't realise that. Thought that they were just lacking raws. --[[Special:Contributions/92.29.248.178|92.29.248.178]] 14:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
+Well, you're both right :P. They're randomly generated, and they lack raws! --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 06:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
+== Random page function ==
+I'm not familiar with how the Special:Random function works, but would it be possible to restrict it to random pages from particular namespaces? Getting 23a, 40d and DF2010 pages returned isn't very helpful. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
+:That would require (iirc) some fairly heavy editing to the mediawiki code. We're trying to avoid modding the code because that creates problems with updating the mediawiki software to new versions. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 18:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Just a little correction, you an get to just DF2010 pages by appending "/DF2010" to the end of special random.
+:: For example. [[Special:Random/DF2010]], [[Special:Random/Utility]], ect.
+:: Perhaps this link might be useful as a more available link? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
+== DF2010 Title needs changing ==
+The new version is now df_31_01 and each article beginning with "DF2010" seems tacky. Any others agree it should be changed to df31 or something around like that? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 19:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
+:The problem is that we version the wiki for each game-save compatibility change.  Simply changing it to 31.01 would fix it now, but when 31.02 - 39.07 come out, and then finally 40.01 comes out that breaks save compatibility, we have much more work to do. Until we know the final version number in the series, it's not easy for us to just say "oh, this is it." --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
+::And wtf is the precedent? In all the versions of the wiki I've seen, versions are always specified as the actual number. How is it more clear to use DF2010 instead of v0.31.01? --Peewee 09:57, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+:If you aren't planning to make more special version namespaces for a while, let's use the main namespace. Also, you guys really need to talk things out more before implementing giant sweeping changes. The more I see you describe your respective visions for the wiki, the more different they seem from each other. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Well. A solution would be to make every article title for the current version just say the article name, ex/ instead of "DF2010:Armor", make it "Armor", like last time. If a new version is released that is different, then archive it as whatever version it last applied to, like "40d:Armor, or 31.01:Armor". Is there any problem with this idea? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+Yes, there is.  (Namely, the amount of labor you're talking about if pages are not set-up for that.)
+Here's "The Plan", which was set up a couple months ago (and which has been discussed elsewhere, but we'll do it one more time)...
+:* Old versions are clearly labeled and consistently linked internally. All 40d links bounce around only to 40d articles, so if a player is researching that version, it's all one package.  ''(Same w/ 23a, the "2-D" version previous to that, but an ongoing and lower-priority project.)''
+:* "New" versions are, likewise, consistent within themselves.  Versionless search terms (like "[[stone]]" automatically default to "current version".
+:* Future versions get their own version names, "current" becomes one-older, and the pattern continues.
+The current PROBLEM is three-fold - the first is the changeover itself, when first time Editors start firing away at articles without the correct names or understanding The Plan.  That is understandable, but compounded by the fact that we don't currently ''know'' the "proper" version number to use - is it 0.31.01, or 0.31, or 31.01 - when the first bugfix comes out, what will be changed and what kept? What part of that number constitutes/defines this as a "version"?  There is no equiv of 23.a or 40.d - it's a new code, and we weren't given the codebook. (We're waiting on Three-toe/Toady for a response on that.) The 3rd problem is "DF2010" - which is wrong, but while popular and everyone is using it, it won't be very friendly later down the road.
+So... we've got something that works now but won't in the future, and needs to be changed to be consistent so we don't bequeath future Admin and users the big bone. A diff between more work now and the sort of complete cluster that has gone on behind the scenes for the last 2 months preparing for this change - which is going SO MUCH SMOOTHER NOW (believe it or not!) because of that (thankless, ahem) preparation.
+Once we know the correct version, all current articles will appear as that.  Search terms will default to current version. Older articles will be consistent within their own namespace. AND we'll be setup for future version changes without quite so much trauma (which is ''why'' some of the more obscure of these changes are being implemented). Clear as mud?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+:Are you basically trying to say that DF2010 is a convenient placeholder string that can be used to identify and move articles by bot when we get a stable version number from Toady? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Dammit, if I could express myself in anything less than 500 words at a time, I would have! (Yes, that's basically what I'm saying.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::I'm not sure who wins the eloquence award here.  Anyways, we're still waiting on information from ToadyOne before we rename DF2010 to something else more appropriate. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::: Toady has already said that he plans to aim for possibly as often as a weekly bugfix release while the early issues of this release get ironed out. Trying to keep up with release number changes weekly would be an absolute nightmare. Until things calm down a bit I don't blame anyone here in the least for using DF2010 as a more general version name. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::::It ''is'' understood that Toady intends (ideally) for this to be both the last save-compat breaking version and the last major long-delay version...  correct?  Putting the entire Wiki in a namespace forever seems to me like a fairly terrible idea in any case, but it is intended for future versions to change much less of existing stuff as things go on (that is why this version took so long, in part, to get all the sweeping structural changes out of the way.)  It is unlikely that there will ever be another version that would require reversioning the entire wiki, if, indeed, you think that even this one reached that level. While I'm not sure I'd agree that it was necessary to reversion the wiki for this version, the DF development plan is certainly intended to be such that revisioning the Wiki like this will never be necessary again.  --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::::: All I'm saying is that for the immediate near future a large number of incremental bug fix releases are to be expected. To avoid driving people completely nuts trying to keep up with frequent version changes it makes sense to use the DF2010 title in the short term. After we see things settle down a bit I agree we should probably go ahead and return to an actual version number. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::With the new version numbering system being so much simpler, could we simply refer to the version as 31a? Then changing letters to account for bugfixes. I'm using 0.31 enough myself but the decimal point is awful. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 17:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::Not really. We're mainly talking about the namespace's name. Changing a namespaces's name is a BIG headache (though it is the reason we're using the <nowiki>{{l|link}}</nowiki> stuff) because we did know that we'd be doing at least one change, and that gets rid of a decent portion of the headache. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 18:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::::I'm still waiting on ToadyOne to provide an official tagname for this series of releases.  If we receive one, we will use it in the wiki. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:02, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::::Toady's response to what to call this version. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1636714#msg1636714 (7th reply) probably not as satisfactory/definitive as hoped :) --[[User:Quatch|Quatch]] 16:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
 == World Painter Page ==
@@ Line 93: / Line 163: @@
 A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
+Lumping all the generic stones into one page is pretty much a labor saving device. There are a lot of different stones in DF most of which have no real differences other than color. So in one respect, I do see reasoning for saving some effort and dumping them in one place. On the other hand, it would be useful to me to see slightly more detailed information about each of the colored stones, for example, I know alunite looks a certain way before it is mined out, it's general color is bright white, when used to build trap components it is bright white in both the on and off position (many stones go to dark in the off position). In the same vein, when used to build tables and chairs, both will be bright white (many stones go to dark for chairs). If you're looking for a "certain look" and want to know a tiny bit more about the stone colors at present, that information simply isn't here as things are now. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 == Not a Roguelike ==
@@ Line 104: / Line 176: @@
 LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
+What makes a rogue-like? too classic a question to pass up . ahem IMHO there three major elements, A dungeon crawl/ fantasy setting, ASCII and random as hell. That makes dwarf fortress three outta three hits for me. Close enough, i'd say, if it's not a rogue-like what other category could it go in? sure its not a great fit but a unique game has to go somewhere. Diablo is a dungeon crawl like rogue sure, but it lacks the depth and randomness of any of the other recognised roguelikes, ADOM, moria etc.  So one outta three? The depth, randomness and spontaneity really make it, ever had a character eaten by a bear on the way to the village in ADOM? classic. --[[User:Pedantictype|Pedantictype]] 05:46, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
+:I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Pedantictype. A Rogue-like is defined by the original: Rogue. Rogue was, first and foremost, a dungeon-crawl with control of a single character, yes? I would postulate that that is one of the elements that is required to be defined as a rogue-like, which qualifies Adventure mode but not Fortress mode. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Eagle's right. A roguelike game plays somewhat like Rogue and has ascii graphics. Fortress mode DF is a tactical/strategic/sandbox ascii game, not a roguelike. And isn't there general intent for it to have graphics one day, once it's out of the design stages? --Kydo 01:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
+DF is closer to Civilisation than ADOM, at least in the Fortress regard. --KingAuggie
 == Link to Add Quotes ==
@@ Line 126: / Line 204: @@
 Right link = www.dfwk.ru instead current www.dfwiki.ru --[[Special:Contributions/91.192.82.106|91.192.82.106]] 11:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 :It's done, so should we delete this conservation? (not that great at wiki myself) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 09:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
+::They get archived at some point, so no need. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 == Random page ==
@@ Line 132: / Line 211: @@
 :It seems "Random page" is only random daily... Is this intentional? --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 20:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 ::There's probably something wrong with your browser cache settings - it works fine for me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
+::: Yes, my Firefox does random each time....must be something with yer Broswer options. :)
 == Random images ==
@@ Line 143: / Line 223: @@
 After reading some stories on many of the most awesome dwarfs to show up in this game. (Namely Captain Ironblood, Morul, Tholtig) That a category, perhaps a sub one to Humor and Stories just for Dwarves that are very very clearly above the normal for the already outrageous(ly awesome) game of Dwarf Fortress. However do to the fact this is less on the game mechanics and such, the idea is first here so other's can figure if it's worth having a category. One thing that comes to mind is there really should be some sort of limit to what makes a Dwarf and Epic/Well Known Dwarf so as to prevent people from putting everyone they liked up there rather then the few '''everyone''' likes. Mostly asking as there is a handful of such dwarfs and that number is only going to (slowly) grow. Each said Dwarf I think deserves some sort of noting on a page for my two cents on the topic.
 :I definitely thing that this is a great idea in the true spirit of DF.
+::These should of course go under D for Dwarf.
 == Images ==
@@ Line 163: / Line 244: @@
 ::Well, I've added pictures to some of the layer stones and vermin, as well as all the ores. If anyone is interested, you can link to files on wikimedia commons as if they were internal files now.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 04:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 :::What if those of us with artistic skills were to produce original content for such pages? For example, I could easily do a few drawings depicting certain fantasy creatures as well as actual creatures. --Kydo 22:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
+::::I don't see how that could even remotely hurt at all.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 ::Who says that the 'Dragon' as a creature isn't a generalization of any species? To be honest, with the graphics as they are, I think that most of Dwarf Fortress comes down to the way the user imagines it, rather than how it appears on screen. Rather like the old text based adventure games of old.--[[Special:Contributions/85.12.64.150|85.12.64.150]] 10:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 :::Whoever you are, that is why i don't use a tileset.<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 06:15, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 :As a rule of thumb, "graphics" are good things - eye candy, if nothing else. Purty.  Use common sense and discretion when choosing (or creating) the image - avoid genre-specific images or anything that is copyrighted (like from an identifiable RPG, for instance), and perhaps add "artist's interpretation" under it, or a selection of (smaller) different images for something like a dragon (tho' I, personally, don't see dwarves with oriental dragons - ymmv.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
+::Seeing as how this is a wiki and what not, why not simple add a western dragon, and if anyone objects to the bias they can add an oriental dragon, so we have two pictures and not only both sides are happy but everyone gets more pictures to look at?--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 :(Also, if you're interested enough to post in the Main Page Discussion, you might want to get an account. Meh.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 178: / Line 261: @@
 For the full discussion see [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] and the talk page.
 <font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 10:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
+Then bloody well move them.  These blank 40d pages are making finding information that is supposed to be there very hard to find.
+:Agreed..Plus I dont understand the site announcements so i pretty much can't contribute to the wiki right now. Hope you got a stable team to help and are done with it soon. Oh, and a better explanation would be great of course. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.120.234|92.202.120.234]] 00:10, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
+::When is the moving of things to the main namespace going to be complete?  Having everything in DF2010 namespace is horribly annoying, and the 40d namespace screws up searches and makes it harder to find stuff via google searches and such.  How long is it going to take to get the wiki fixed to the current version, delete all the old d40 stuff, and get rid of the namespaces? --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+== Tutorials clutter ==
+Currently we have in the first box:
+*About Dwarf Fortress
+*'''Tutorials and guides'''
+*'''Quickstart guide (recent)'''
+*'''Frequently Asked Questions'''
+*'''Your first fortress'''
+*'''Video tutorials'''
+*'''Important advice'''
+*'''Indecisive's Illustrated Tutorial'''
+*'''Get help from online chat'''
+*Game development
+*'''Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock'''
+*'''Starting builds'''
+Bolded are the ones I think are redundant. Basically, we have the following categories of stuff:
+*Tutorials for newbies: Step by step instructions where you follow what the guide says, without necessarily understanding why right away.
+*Guides for newbies: General explanations of game concepts, such as z-level, how to set labors, how to farm, how to work the interface and install a graphical tileset, what the aim of the game is, etc.
+*Guides for advanced players: These assume you know how to play the game, and are concerned with optimizing/pushing strategy. Embark build discussions which go beyond explaining the bare minimums you should take (such as "don't embark without a pick!", intended for newbies who may not know what they are doing), megaprojects, combat mechanics, computing, farming strategies, defense strategies, design strategies, macros, world generation parameter discussion and the like.
+*FAQ, bugs and troubleshooting: The index of known problems and what to do about them, for when you have a clear question you want to figure out. This includes the FAQ, IRC channels and bugs to watch out for.
+That makes 4 categories. Currently, we have 10 categories dealing with the same things. Moreover, the current break down makes no sense, and is obviously not maintained (I think that quickstart guide has been "recent" since early last summer). It's becoming confusing for the clueless first time player who was just linked to Bay12 and the wiki on a forum, and left to fend for itself. In fact, ideally, the tutorials and newbie guides should also be sorted from short to long, with datestamps.
+I would rearrange the box myself, but I thought I'd ask what everyone else is thinking first. By the way, are there any tutorials for DF2010, or plans to write any? --[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
+::By the way, my proposal is to have the box look like this:
+::'''Help with Dwarf Fortress'''
+::*About Dwarf Fortress
+::*How to set up and play Dwarf Fortress (Tutorials)
+::*General game information (explanation of basics)
+::*Advanced strategies (for experienced players)
+::*Troubleshooting: FAQ, where to ask for help, known bugs and issues
+::*Game development
+::--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
+::If [[40d:Quickstart guide]] is obsolete, you should definitely remove the links to it from the front page (both "Your first fortress" and "Quickstart guide" end up there). As a new player pointed at this wiki by the game, I wasted twenty minutes trying to load in the save game (was I being unlucky, or does it simply not work with the new version?) and gave up on trying to play Dwarf Fortress, as a result. --[[User:Gritspeck|Gritspeck]] 16:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
+:I'm all for this, this is a terrible organization.  I like your plan.  Given further agreement (or at least no opposition) I say go for it.  [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:38, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
+Well, I went ahead and did my best.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 22:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
+:I think the frontpage would benefit from highlighting a couple well-written and important pages as well. A "featured article," perhaps. --[[User:Falldog|Falldog]] 01:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
+::I think it does highlight important pages. See the blue boxes. A 'featured article' would (further) clutter the front page while not being of any value to viewers of the front page or users of this wiki in general. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 17:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
+::: Let me rephrase. The main page would benefit from the inclusion of links to the most often used reference pages (like the stone summary and the metal summary) than the section on "Playing Dwarf Fortress." It is redundant as there is already a Newbie section and an Advanced tutorials section. I think we agree about that. --[[User:Falldog|Falldog]] 21:22, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
+== New modding guide ==
+I'm not really sure what the process is for new guides and tutorials. I figured it would be of general community interest, so I'm posting this here; [[User:Tfaal/The Complete Dorf's Guide to Bodies]] --[[User:Tfaal|Tfaal]] 16:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+==Bug listings on the Wiki==
+Given that the version number is expected to be changing quite rapidly in the near future as bugs are caught and killed, I think it's a good idea to always keep a version number associated with any bug reports we migrate into the wiki pages. This will hopefully minimize confusion as updates gradually remove these. If we could get one of those mini-version tags to use for this purpose or if someone can explain to me how to use that half-sized font for this purpose that would be helpful. Thanks. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
+:There is already a template for this: [[Template:Version]]. You use it as follows.
+:<nowiki>Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}}</nowiki>
+:results in:
+:Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}} --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 16:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
+:: Thank you, that is all I needed. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
+== What happened to the link to the dev changelog? ==
+There used to be a link to the changelog and a link to the 31_01 release information, but now there's just a link to the release information labeled "changelog." Also the main page appears to use a funny template or something so the link's messed up throughout all of the mainpage history.
+:-That's a link I used almost daily. While I realize I'm an idiot for not just bookmarking it, it is a little disconcerting for it to :be gone. Either way, I've always thought it was one of the most relevant links on the main page—it let's you know where the game :project is at ''right now''.
+:Wow, forgot sig and indent. I'm amazing. :P ----[[User:Njero|Njero]] 01:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
+Found the template in question, figured there was no reason for the changelog link not to be there so I put it back; it seemed like it was removed by mistake anyway. Also renamed the link to the release information so there wouldn't be two links entitled "changelog." --[[User:Untelligent|Untelligent]] 02:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
+==Announcements Hider==
+The announcement-hiding script on Briess's page no longer works--it's checking the contents of an id that no longer exists. Replacing the conditional with collapseTable(0) works, but sidesteps the original intent of the conditional, which I presume is to display the options if they've changed since last visit. Does that functionality still apply? While we're at it, is it possible to assign a named value to the collapsible table, so that it can be collapsed without referring to its position relative to other collapsible tables (which breaks the hider script on certain skins)? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]
+==How will merging/splitting topics work for backward compatibility linking==
+I got thinking about this when helping work on the military pages, we're branching this out into squads/military/schedule/etc. because of how much more complex things have suddenly got with the military system. It was a natural direction to take things. What's the correct way to handle backward compatibility links in this situation? And now that I'm thinking about it, how about page merging? If we decide to merge anything how will that be handled? [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 03:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
+== Game object date boxes ==
+These boxes on  the creature pages need some kind of text formatting to stop them expanding to far. Just an example try the [[dog|dog]] page. --[[User:AKAfreaky|AKAfreaky]] 12:54, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
+== Carrying over saved games? ==
+Hi, is it possible to carry over savegames from one version to the next, and if so, how do I do this? Thanks [[User:EddyP|EddyP]] 10:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
+:It is possible - go to the /data folder and just copy the file called "save" to the /data folder in the new DF. You'll then have to edit the raws in each region folder (inside the save folder) to match the new raws in the main /raw folder (or just copy them over). --[[User:AKAfreaky|AKAfreaky]] 20:22, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
+::As long as the "different versions" are within the same "generation" of Dwarf Fortress (i.e. 0.21 thru 0.23, 0.27 thru 0.28, or 0.31), this'll work. If you actually try to copy a saved game from 0.28.101.40d to 0.31.xx, expect it to fail in a very spectacular way. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
+==Quote wrong on main page==
+The quote on the main page comes up with something to the effect that you cannot milk creatures.  This was true for 40d, but not for the most recent edition.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 12:23, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
+: ''"The alert statuses (i.e., "Stay Indoors") have been entirely redone. You may set several custom alerts with user defined scheduling."''
+: Is this really intended to be a main page quote? I thought the main pages quotes were usually . . . funny. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 02:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
+== "Your ad here, free!" ==
+What's up with another ad space on the bottom of every page? We're getting to a point where more ads just cause more annoyance, not more profit. {{unsigned|213.157.252.41}}
+:There are ads? Where? *turns off adblock* OH HOLY CRAP *quickly turns adblock back on* Yeah, if there are more ads than page it kinda defeats the point doesn't it? [[User:Volatar|Volatar]] 14:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
+::The ad stuff is trying to get a baseline for different types of ads. We're hoping the button ads perform well enough that we can get rid of the larger banner ads. In 5 or so days the number of ads will decrease depending on what we find. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 20:31, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
+::Also, the "free" part is that ads with no bids can be obtained freely, but that'll disappear in the next few days as the ads establish a page view trend. (Which is why in 5 or so days we'll be getting rid of some ads.) [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 20:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
+:::Good enough. Thanks for the explanation! {{unsigned|213.157.252.41}}
+::There are ads?? *switches to IE* oh, yeah, ads.. *switches back to opera* --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.79.42|92.202.79.42]] 11:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
+== "The wiki currently has 3 articles. " ==
+I'm assuming this has something to do with the recent namespace thing? --[[Special:Contributions/217.132.92.69|217.132.92.69]] 10:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
+:Haha, yes, I'll get right on that. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 18:04, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
+::Looks like someone beat me too it. :( [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 18:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
+== Quality ==
+I really like how the bar is counting down to zero. Keep templating, rawing and tableing all you want, eventually you will have to face the truth: to make a helpful wiki you need to ''play'' the game and add ''content''. --[[Special:Contributions/68.161.167.37|68.161.167.37]] 02:09, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
+:What are you objecting to?  Someone said it would be a good idea to know "how close to 'complete' the wiki is", we did that.  If you don't like it then you don't have to look at it.  I'd also like to ask why you think you have such a right to critisize others work after your... 3 edits?  [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 17:26, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
+::I think the big problem is that the vast majority of 40d pages are still completely accurate or near-completely accurate to the new version, but little to no effort has been made to port them over.  Now that the latest version has been out for a while, I think it's reasonable to say that it's obvious that 'nuking' the 40d version by forcing it into a separate namespace instead of just trying to update it normally was a terrible mistake -- as was setting up this wretched namespace system, given that this is intended to be the ''last'' such gap between releases.  The change from 40d to 2010 wasn't nearly as sweeping in terms of underlying mechanics as some people on the Wiki thought it would be -- but now, because of the way the changeover was mishandled here, we're left basically rewriting or copy-pasting a bunch of pages for stuff that hasn't changed, and nobody actually wants to waste time doing that when perfectly good and accurate articles exist in 40d namespace.  Look at [[Animal Trap]], say -- the 40d version is detailed and near-perfectly accurate to DF2010, while the DF2010 version is barely more than a stubby paragraph.  This happens all over the place, because people were eager to rewrite (or create) the articles related to stuff that changed, but nobody wanted to waste time rewriting all the relatively accurate articles that were mindlessly pushed into a separate namespace in the botched shift.  --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:51, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
+== Legacy? SDL? ==
+Could someone explain the difference between the legacy and SDL releases? Seems that information ought to be around here somewhere. Can't seem to find it if it is. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 00:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
+:From my guess, Legacy is the old version (without SDL), and the SDL... well you get it. --[[User:Hugna|Hugna]] 03:55, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
+== New website==
+I've got a new website up and running with drupal. It is about dwarf fortress and you can find it [http://darkcloudterrace.dyndns.info/drupal6/ Here darkcloudterrace] it has a forum for dwarf fortress
+== Download Mirrors Working or Broken ==
+I can't seem to download df_31_13 from any of the three mirrors on the front page. Is anyone else having a problem with them?
+--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 12:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
+== Unworthy Self-link ==
+Would it be improper to add a link to [[Bentgirder]] on the home page?
+== Dwarf Forttress Wiki Portable ==
+Hello all.
+I'm building a portable, well somewhat portable, version of the Dwarf Fortress Wiki site. It is being made with Personal Brain (www.thebrain.com) and I will be importing everything I can find.
+Admittedly I will need some help with this project. Any volunteers?--[[User:SpyMaster356|SpyMaster356]] 20:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
+And another note: The finished "Brain" can be used as a navigator for this wiki too.--[[User:SpyMaster356|SpyMaster356]] 21:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
+I'm sorry to say at this rate, that finishing the first wiki is more helpful that creating a new one. -- KingAuggie
+== Front Page Links ==
+I recently added [[Industry]] as a front page link, as well as [[Important Advice]] and others, but I'm afraid that, for a helpful wiki, we need to group things better, into more "portal pages".  This wiki is edited only by seasoned guys like us, but is sposed to be read by noobs.  At the moment, there are far too many choices to make, even in the "New to DF" box. Any thoughts on thinning the herd? Maybe create a new page that can then direct people elsewhere? -- KingAuggie
+* I vote for removing the 'New To Dwarf Fortress?' block, making a page with its contents and more, and linking to that page with a nice big link under the "Playing Dwarf Fortress" section. Something like "Beginners Go Here" centered and at the top of the section. [[User:Calite|Calite]] 17:43, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
+== [[User:Esitowipefy]] ==
+:{{gametext|Esitowipefy, Troll, has gone berserk!|4:1}}
+Personal advice: <del>[[Unfortunate accident]]</del> ban. Please kick this user as far as you can and make a *warning sign* out of his skin. --[[Special:Contributions/212.201.74.67|212.201.74.67]] 23:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
+:: I concur. Avast was warning me that the links were attempting to download a trojan horse, just making him worse. [[User:Neo Kabuto|Neo Kabuto]] 23:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
+::: Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
+Same thing with http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Westhara. For one thing, he just changed the main page to nothing! Someone else fixed it. I would've, but DF wiki was dragging it's feet on sending me my confirmation e-mail. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 15:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
+== Please redirect... ==
+...[[DF2010:Glob]] to [[DF2010:Fat]]. Anonymous page creation is currently prohibited. Thanks :). --[[Special:Contributions/217.225.113.232|217.225.113.232]] 23:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
+== Flash Blind! ==
+Gah! Dorf Fort has a black background.  This site has a white background.  Every time I switch from DF to magmawiki I get blinded by the light.  Does anyone else have this problem?  And if so, should we change it? [[Special:Contributions/76.21.249.47|76.21.249.47]] 03:33, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
+:Ha! Sounds to me like you just need to turn down the brightness on your screen.  Then again, the fawn background at the [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion Oblivion wiki] is very attractive...  Maybe you're onto something... [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 05:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
+::On the English Wikipedia, there is an option to make it so the wiki is in black background with green text, it only works on the MonoBook skin, which just so happens to be the default here. If someone could look into making a version compatible with this wiki, then that would solve that problem. (Another solution is to 'snap' the wiki to one half of your screen and DF to the other half in windows 7.) [[User:Akjar13|Akjar13]] 20:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
+== Why is there no pages on Body Detail Plan Tokens or Creatue Variation Tokens? ==
+Can it really be that nobody other than Toady himself knows how these tokens actually work? And if not, why don't these types of tokens have their own wiki pages? I for one would put one in myself but I don't know how to create a new page or have much significant info on how these tokens work. But even a mostly empty page consisting only of a note asking for help from other wiki contributors would be better than the nothing that we have on these topics now.
+== Doc flow for noobs ==
+I've been trying to improve the documentation for for noobs lately. As part of this I'd like to '''propose the following change to the "New to dwarf fortress?" box''' on the main page:
+http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Ral/Testmain
+Essentially the idea is to organize this into:
+# What the heck is this and do I even want to try it? (about dwarf fortress)
+# How do I install the software and what next? (How to Set Up and Play Dwarf Fortress)
+## How do I start learning to play Fortress Mode and what tutorials are there? (Fortress mode quickstart)
+## How do I start learning to play Adventure Mode and what tutorials are there? (Adventurer mode quickstart)
+# So what's up with the latest features? (Game development)
+# I still can't figure something out even with the docs. Where do I go for help? (Questions and Troubleshooting)
+Right now this box is a bit too much of a hodgepodge and I, at least, feel like it needs to provide a more logical flow from "what the heck is this?" to the full documentation all over the wiki.
+== Will change main page tomorrow pending objections ==
+Ok, I reworked the About page and created, an Installation page, and reworked the tutorials page:
+*[[DF2010:About]]
+*[[DF2010:Installation]]
+*[[User:Ral/Tutorials]]
+The main page has not been changed yet and nothing has been linked. I will change the main page tomorrow if there are no concerns or complaints before then. --[[User:Ral|Ral]] 02:20, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
+:Starting build is no longer a 'basics' page, but a theoretical treatment of putting together a starting build.  Embark is now fulfilling the basics function.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
+:Ok, I have taken that into account. --[[User:Ral|Ral]] 02:20, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
+:Changes all now in place. Embark placed in "Playing Dwarf Fortress" and starting build is in "gameplay elements". Embark is also linked to from various noob pages. --[[User:Ral|Ral]] 23:58, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
+== Database dump? ==
+Is there a complete db dump for this wiki, for offline use? Where would I find it? [[Special:Contributions/91.7.160.233|91.7.160.233]] 23:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
+this was on the DF reddit somewhere, somebody posted a full dump created with some sort of Perl crawler. I can't remember the post but you can start looking there
+== Stupid advertisments! ==
+The advertisments are blocking my view of pages! I can't click links that are on the very left of the page. Please fix that!
+--[[User:Jumbods64|Jumbods64]] 22:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
+EDIT: oh wait if i make the text small... hehe heh... sorry.
+== Stupid advertisments! (DOUBLE POST!)==
+DOUBLE POST sorry.
+==The Stop Censorship Banner==
+Can we get this off of the wiki?  This place isn't for political advocacy.  --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 23:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
+: No.  If this bill passes, I will be unable to host the wiki due to the legal issues involved. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:44, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
+:: The bills have been essentially struck down. There's a chance they'll return, but I think the banner doesn't need to be up anymore.--[[Special:Contributions/173.167.163.13|173.167.163.13]] 18:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
+== New version ==
+The main page recognises the new version, but not the new release date. [[Special:Contributions/188.95.42.176|188.95.42.176]] 14:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
+:That's because the release date comes from a different template, which nobody updated. Given that this version is '''not''' save-compatible with 0.31.xx, it's very likely that a new namespace will be created to cover it, so it might be good to wait on updating existing pages. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)