Editing v0.31 Talk:Attack

Created this page - until someone learns the full military interface, this is all(?) they need. It's all I needed.  Might be better moved to a diff title, like "To kill a thief", but this is what I thought of first.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

: Not sure if I agree with the need for this article, If it does stay around, it needs to be cleaned up. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article.  The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand {{L|military}}, {{L|squad}}s and {{L|scheduling}} just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree that there is an audience for this article. It should probably be linked from the tutorial or quickstart guide. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

:::Definitely useful, at least for now. To be honest I was close to giving up on the new military system as hopelessly broken and this page is part of what convinced me otherwise. [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==Don't make no sense==
Why have the commander be someone you DON'T want fighting? Why the doctor? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:<sigh> Okay, fair enough. (Altho' this discussion really doesn't belong here, but...)<br />
:This article is not about "permanent" military, but only about short-term, "right now" military, right? So, you want to use the "nearest" dwarfs, not wait for those who are trained - and might be across the map.  So while you ''can'' designate a squad off your Militia Commander, you won't want to unless they happen to be right there by the target - unlikely.  So you find the ''nearest'' dwarf (or so), make ''them'' a militia captain (for this effort only), and build off of them.

:Why not the doctor? Simply because you don't want your doctor to get hurt or die! Who will patch them up? Who will patch up anyone else?! If you make the doctor the M Commander, and have a policy to never build a squad off of that designated noble, then they will never be sent off toward trouble.  That, and since the Commander has no skills that matter, you'll never(?) have to replace that position because the old one ran off and got themself killed.

:But if that still "don't make sense" and you want to send your doctor into battle, don't let ''me'' stop you!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

::Are you angry? I'm not calling you out, I'm just naturally curious about other people's play styles. Your explanation here clarified the points of my confusion; I think the article could benefit from parts of it. I'll edit them in. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

:This had me confused too. Given that this page is supposed to represent the simplest possible way to attack, why not just designate the guy who should attack as commander in the first place? Yes the other way works, by why do an extra step? [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 : Not sure if I agree with the need for this article, If it does stay around, it needs to be cleaned up. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
-::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article.  The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand [[military]], [[squad]]s and [[scheduling]] just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
+::If you understand how military works, you don't need this article.  The "need" for this article is, as I said above, for those who don't want to slog through 3 long, complex articles to fully understand {{L|military}}, {{L|squad}}s and {{L|scheduling}} just to have a couple nearby dwarfs run off a tribe of macaques or raccoons in the first season. (Not sure what "cleaning up" you think it needs, but knock yourself out.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
-:::That's a mighty big if, and the whole reason for the existence of wikis is to provide that understanding. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 :::I agree that there is an audience for this article. It should probably be linked from the tutorial or quickstart guide. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 :::Definitely useful, at least for now. To be honest I was close to giving up on the new military system as hopelessly broken and this page is part of what convinced me otherwise. [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
-:First, thank you for writing this detailed explanation, it's been a big help for me. Second, ''how do you cancel a kill order?'' I sent my main squad to go kill a thief, who then escaped off the edge of the map. The squad still has "Kill So-and-So" as their task. I don't want to destroy my squad, it's all set up with custom weapons, a schedule, and a lot of elbow grease to make that happen. I've found the answer to this question, and added a paragraph at the end on how to do it. [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 22:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 ==Don't make no sense==
@@ Line 25: / Line 21: @@
 :This had me confused too. Given that this page is supposed to represent the simplest possible way to attack, why not just designate the guy who should attack as commander in the first place? Yes the other way works, by why do an extra step? [[User:ManaUser|ManaUser]] 23:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
-::I'd also like some clarification here. Why is it necessary to have a "nearby" non-combat dorf (ie. the doctor) as militia commander, when the commander could be one of the drafted dorfs that's closest to the target?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 20:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
-:::There's an important unspoken assumption with this page: it assumes the target is something not too dangerous that's come into your camp, that you need to immediately kill with whatever dwarf is at hand for some reason (e.g. a macaque that's snitched your only pick out of your wagon). So the page is not about how to set up and move around your military, it's <i>only</i> about how to get your dwarves to attack the target standing next to them, instead of running away. For example, with real military, I've found that 'k'ill orders don't really work that well unless the mildorf is already standing near or can see their ordered target; if not, they will often just stand around confused ("Soldier (cannot follow orders)"). I have had much better success using 'm'ove orders to order squads to the general area, then, usually, just letting them go after whatever target they see rather than bothering with 'k' orders.
-:::Further, trying to order around dwarves who have just been drafted into the military (or even in a squad already, but just activated) can be problematic unless you're careful with uniform and supplies selection (or, again, the dorf happens to be standing next to a hostile already). Following these instructions to draft your woodcutter who happens to be standing in just the right place to intercept that macaque before it gets off the map may only result in him wanting to "Store item in stockpile" as his uniform doesn't include an axe. If he's near or runs into the macaque, he will likely cancel the task and (maybe) use the axe on it, but if not he'll happily walk to the stockpile before following orders, while the macaque gets away. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Using Weapons at Hand ==
-I just used this procedure to fend of some Macaques, and it's handy. The one change I made was to fiddle with the per-dwarf equipment designation until they all said something like 'use preferred weapon', since the dwarves I drafted were all holding weapons. It got my miner to do some brutal things with his pick. and made me remember that woodsdwarfing doesn't give you axe skill ^_^. Not sure if it's nessecary, as I didn't test without it. --[[User:Star Weaver|Star Weaver]] 23:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
-:see above, unless he's already next to/runs into the target, it is necessary to include the axe in his uniform if you're trying to give your woodcutter immediate orders to use it on something. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Quick Question ==
-Whilst I'm away from my own computer - can the 'k'ill command be used on your own dwarves?
-:I know it can be used on them if they are beserk, but I don't think it works otherwise.  Could be wrong, though. --[[User:Kyle Solo|Kyle Solo]] 15:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
-: Damn.. I was hoping it might provide an answer to my migrant problem :P
-:: Nope. That's why you have to be [[Unfortunate_accident|creative]] ;-)
-== Is the Commander a full-time position? ==
-First off, thanks for this article.  Without quick, simple instructions I probably wouldn't have been able to pursue a band of rhesus theives.
-Now that the dust has settled, however, and my miner dorfs have gotten their jollies stabbing monkeys with a pickaxe, I still have a question.  I've disbanded the ad hoc squad but the militia commander and captain are still listed under the (n)obles screen.  Does this mean my brewer and hunter will refuse to return to their day jobs?  My hunter isn't so important (we have enough rhesus meat to last a while), but my brewer is crucial.  My miner dorfs have tasted blood, and without alcohol I fear that they shall turn their pickaxes upon each other!
-:See the [[Noble]] page. The militia commander and captain are not "lazy" nobles, i.e. will continue to do civilian work when not performing noble tasks - and as far as I have seen, neither have any noble work to do (as compared to, say, the Manager or Bookkeeper).
-:(also note on the Noble page that some (much) later military commanders, e.g. General, Lieutenant, <i>are</i> lazy. But not the militia leaders). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)