Editing v0.31 Talk:Butcher's shop

==Parts Yielded==
It seems that creatures now do not give the same thing when butchered. For example I butchered some Hydras in arena mode and none of the Hydras gave the same yield of parts. There seems to be a range in what you get from butchering, or is this just a side effect of now having fatness and size? In one case I got more livers from one Hydra than from a different one, how would this either of these effect major organs?

I was using a drowning tank just to see what these animals would yield. There are some things that stayed the same, like the Hydras always had 7 skulls and 14 eyes. 

If the above is the case then the creature pages might need to show a range of values one could expect when butchering a certain animal.
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 15:56, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:I have also noticed this while butchering kittens. Is it possible that the yield is related to butchering skill? --[[User:Soronhen|Soronhen]] 16:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::Maybe related to both considering that in arena mode you have either no skill or max skill. --[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 17:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:One thing I've noticed, after having my Swordsdwarf hunt down a Leopard and him killing it by severing its lower body, was that both the mutilated corpse and the lower body were butcherable, and it might be that some, if not all, parts are duplicated then, as I received two skins from the butchering in total. Unless Leopards generally yield two skins (or can). Correct me if I'm wrong... --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 17:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::Not all the parts are duplicated, when destroying Hydras with a Swordsdwarf it put body parts every where, and most of them were butcher-able and gave respective cut up things, further testing would have to be done to see if the lower and upper-body give duplicates if separated. I'd say if that happens again compare the body parts and see if the total is similar to one you drown (which should have everything normal).--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 18:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Parts with Unknown Uses==
Wouldn't tusks be used for crafts as well? I see there are '''Decorate with Ivory/Tooth''' and '''Make Ivory/Tooth Crafts''' commands at the craftsdwarf workshop, and I'd guess that tusks would be considered Ivory, if not Teeth. We'd have to check whether they actually do use tusks for those though.

==Revamping Templates==
The (apparently hardcoded) templates on creature pages (which previously listed butchery products) need to be made more flexible. For that purpose, we need to list possible parts here. Afaik, there is no such thing as a "chunk" anymore. That was only a placeholder, after all. Here is the beginning of a list; please expand on it and move/reformat it to the main page when you feel it is complete.
* Inedible
** Skulls
** Bones
** Teeth
** Tusks
** Hooves
** Skins
** Scales
* Edible
** Meat
*** Prepared Organs
*** Tripe, Sweetbread
** Fat

Prepared Organs need their own page, rather than just Intestines. Various preparations (such as Tripe) and organs (Intestines, Brains) belong on such a page. I'll be working on that right now, of course... --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 05:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==edible==
I can verify as edible all mentioned in the article except eyes so far. --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 17:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==None of these seem to show up in the kitchen menu?==
Not even meat - anyone else have this too? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 21:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:I might be misinterpriting the situation, but I believe this is because you no longer have the option not to cook meat. I mean, why would you not? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
::Nope. Meat and organs are not cookable. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:16, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Beak==
I could swear when I butchered a vulture, I ended up with a beak. An unrelated crash makes it impossible to check, though. Confirmation? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Article Quality==
-I'm sorry, but this page doesn't come close to Human quality. It's highly incomplete, lacking several conclusive bits of information. It also has broken links and is terribly organized. I do not see how we can possible pass this on as Human; it needs to be prioritized back to Elven and given ''much'' more attention.[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 06:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 ==Parts Yielded==
 It seems that creatures now do not give the same thing when butchered. For example I butchered some Hydras in arena mode and none of the Hydras gave the same yield of parts. There seems to be a range in what you get from butchering, or is this just a side effect of now having fatness and size? In one case I got more livers from one Hydra than from a different one, how would this either of these effect major organs?
@@ Line 13: / Line 10: @@
 :One thing I've noticed, after having my Swordsdwarf hunt down a Leopard and him killing it by severing its lower body, was that both the mutilated corpse and the lower body were butcherable, and it might be that some, if not all, parts are duplicated then, as I received two skins from the butchering in total. Unless Leopards generally yield two skins (or can). Correct me if I'm wrong... --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 17:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 ::Not all the parts are duplicated, when destroying Hydras with a Swordsdwarf it put body parts every where, and most of them were butcher-able and gave respective cut up things, further testing would have to be done to see if the lower and upper-body give duplicates if separated. I'd say if that happens again compare the body parts and see if the total is similar to one you drown (which should have everything normal).--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 18:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
-'''Fat, intestines, meat'''
-I seem to remember a forum post saying that the amount of fat you get depends on the fat descriptor (with a creature that's incredibly skinny giving less than one that's behung with rolls of lard), the amount of meat depending on the muscle descriptor (very strong vs. incredibly weak) and the amount of intestines depending on the size descriptor. I'll test that to verify it once I get my fort running, butchery is usually a later-game side project for me.
---[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 16:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 ==Parts with Unknown Uses==
 Wouldn't tusks be used for crafts as well? I see there are '''Decorate with Ivory/Tooth''' and '''Make Ivory/Tooth Crafts''' commands at the craftsdwarf workshop, and I'd guess that tusks would be considered Ivory, if not Teeth. We'd have to check whether they actually do use tusks for those though.
-I checked the raws for tusk-bearing animals; Elephants, Walruses, and Warthogs all use Ivory for their tusks. I'm willing to bet these are used for ivory crafts, but can't test it at the moment. --[[User:Warlord255|Warlord255]] 14:53, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
-Confirmed that ivory crafts can be made with elephant or warthog - can't speak for walrus.
 ==Revamping Templates==
@@ Line 36: / Line 24: @@
 ** Skins
 ** Scales
-** Nervous Tissue
 * Edible
 ** Meat
@@ Line 45: / Line 32: @@
 Prepared Organs need their own page, rather than just Intestines. Various preparations (such as Tripe) and organs (Intestines, Brains) belong on such a page. I'll be working on that right now, of course... --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 05:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
-I'd offer that "craftable" could be another category for bones, skulls, skin, etc. - or, failing that, placing the useless items like cartilage into a "detrius" category.--[[User:Warlord255|Warlord255]] 14:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
+==edible==
+I can verify as edible all mentioned in the article except eyes so far. --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 17:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
-:This is also being discussed [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Centralized_Discussion#Template_madness|here]]. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 ==None of these seem to show up in the kitchen menu?==
 Not even meat - anyone else have this too? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 21:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 :I might be misinterpriting the situation, but I believe this is because you no longer have the option not to cook meat. I mean, why would you not? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
-::Nope. Is Fixed in 31.02 - back to normal --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:16, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Nope. Meat and organs are not cookable. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:16, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
-==Feathers and scales==
-Ok, so I KNOW I saw a cave crocodile scale. Is this the reptilian version of skin?
-Also, the article says something about feathers. Can we get verification on either of these? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
-:Ask [[User:Soronhen]] who added feathers (?); i can vouch for alligator and cave croc giving scale but not skin. A look at the raws:
-donkey:
-[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
-cave croc:
-[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
-		[REMOVE_MATERIAL:SKIN]
-		[REMOVE_MATERIAL:LEATHER]
-		[REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
-		[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
-	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
-		[REMOVE_TISSUE:SKIN]
-		[REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
-		[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
-	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SCALE:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
-giant eagle is less obvious though:
-[REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
-		[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:FEATHER:FEATHER_TEMPLATE]
-	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
-		[REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
-		[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:FEATHER:FEATHER_TEMPLATE]
-	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
-	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:FEATHER]
-I would read that as giving leather and feather, but I'm surely not trying to check in game ;) --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 17:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
-::I've tried to stay away from the raws for fear of misinterpreting them. Others who are more confident in their abilities are of course welcome to verify things in this way. I'll edit the article to reflect the scale/skin swap. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
-:::I can confirm feathers empirically. Both Giant Eagles and Elk Birds yield feathers, which are currently cluttering up my butchers' shops. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 16:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
-== beak ==
-A buzzard was killed by a trap and now i have 'corpse' and 'beak'. I would expect a beak is also the result of butchering birds, then. --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 16:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
-:But it is not. Butchering does not produce beaks. --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 00:04, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
-::I deleted it from the talk page because no one could confirm, but I wrote a while back about getting a beak as well. I had both buzzards and vultures on the map. Perhaps this warrants further looking into, rather than outright dismissal. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:59, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
-:::Especially when you consider the variability of butchery products. A reasonable correlation needs to be established between the RAWs and the possible products, and that needs to be our test for information included on this page and creature pages. [[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 02:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
-::::Well its quite simple. you can have noses(!) as you can have beaks, from killing creatures, but you can't from butchering. There is no variability of butchery products, except by animal. I have tested butchering a lot (hundreds of animals), and since it is easy to test, just go ahead instead of speculating! --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
-:::::My, one of my weapon traps "produced" a goat ''tail'', so combat produces quite a few items butchering does not. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
-:::::: Edged combat produces severed parts that can be butchered. The tail could be butchered for a small amount of meat and bone. A beak is already down to a component part that would be discarded on butchering, so what you see is what you get. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 02:23, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
-==The beast with 13 hearts==
-So I recently killed a Forgotten Beast. It looks like we got him to the butcher's shop in time, despite a goblin siege. I now have 26 forgotten beast brains, 13 forgotten beast hearts, 80 forgotten beast intestines, and who knows what was cooked before I noticed this abnormality. So much for the idea that only one of each type of organ can be yielded. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:11, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
-:Butchering should be able to yield whatever the beast is made of, given that forgotten beasts are procedurally generated they can have athe amounts of identical organs. --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
-:I think that some forgotten beasts just have really large hearts/brains/organs, which generate more than one "serving" when the organ is butchered.  I'd guess we would need confirmation from Toady on what it means.
-== stockpile proximity  ==
-I don't believe this is a factor for butchering. Lacking any configuration entries for forgotten beast corpses, these usually wind up in the same few general corpse stockpiles, only 25 tiles from one butcher shop, over 60 tiles from another, and over 250 tiles from a third. The furthest one bizarrely generates the job. Unless I catch it and forbid it while it's in the stockpile to manually re-assign the job (and sometimes even then,) a dwarf will crawl along with a 10k-15k corpse for game weeks to bring it to the most distant butchery. I've even seen dwarves switch the hauling job to another dwarf over halfway, and the second dwarf carry the same FB all the way back to a shop nearer the original pile.
-Based on the fact that none of the corpses or their products went to waste through all this inefficiency, I would guess that the rotting process is suspended, or at least greatly reduced, for tasked items. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 22:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
-== stockpile necessity ==
-It is not necessary for the corpse to be in a refuse stockpile for it to be butchered. A butcher will happily pick the corpse from the ground. (However not if the corpse is already scheduled for transportation). I tried this with a forgotten beast corpse which, for fear of syndromes, I sealed in a small room together with the butcher. --[[User:SGdYy409Ls|SGdYy409Ls]] 11:56, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
+==Beak==
+I could swear when I butchered a vulture, I ended up with a beak. An unrelated crash makes it impossible to check, though. Confirmation? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 03:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)