Editing v0.31 Talk:Combat skill

==From [[DF2010 Talk:Fighter]]==
Made the page but I really dont know how to lay out wiki pages so :-\...
Also, I dont know anything about the actual skill :P I just thought there should be a page for it... --[[User:Huggz|Huggz]] 00:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:Perhaps the function of "wrestler" has changed, or maybe it's functions have been divided up into multiple skills, due to the new mechanics for wrestling? If that were the case, "fighter" may be somehow derived from there. I mean, "Dodger" was not a skill before, and evasion was partially based on your wrestling skill. --Kydo 05:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::This may be one of the things that we'll have to wait on. Might need some 3rd party utilities to parse out what's changing during combat, when it's improved (and hence when it's used), what triggers it, whether it's an adventurer-only thing, etc. Whatever - please don't guess on the main page - that's what this page is for. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:47, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

*I'm getting fighter skill from just sitting there letting an archer shoot at me. It's definitely not just gained from unarmed combat. It also seems to go up with every blocked blow, no matter what type. Confirm? --[[User:Sysice|Sysice]] 20:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
** I created a "danger room" to spar in and though their attack capabilities are fairly mediocre (talented), their fighter stats are High master or Legendary.  So recieved attacks appear to increase fighter also.
* Maybe fighter skill has to do with parrying and counterattacking - that way some skill is retained when swap from eg. axe-user to sword-user. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

==Archer?==
Could Archer be the ranged attack equivilent of Fighter?  I've seen Bowdwarf, Marksman, and Blowdartsomething...  That doesn't leave any other ranged weapon.
:I think so. In adventurer mode, it advances at the same rate and time as Thrower. Not tested with bows. [[Special:Contributions/24.22.117.251|24.22.117.251]] 22:13, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


==Wrestling==
I thought wrestling is bad, until I managed to PINCH THE HEAD OF A VULTURE OFF!
"You grab The Vulture by the head with your right hand!
You pinch The Vulture's head with Your right hand!
The Vulture has been struck down."
I was pretty surprised by it, and repeated it three times with other vulture "volunteers". I am now testing it with a dwarf miner, but it takes its time.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 22:02, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
* Wrestling is not so cool when you get many grab finger, grab toe attacks. With your lower or upper arm, not with hand. Maybe higher wrestling skill lets you grab throats. 
:"The Lizardfolk Mystic Ranger grabs You by the fourth finger, left hand with his right lower arm!" 
:"The Lizardfolk Mystic Spearman grabs You by the upper left back tooth with his right upper arm!" --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
*You have to wrestle a certain bodypart. You can do this by manually [A] (don't know how to make that button stuff) pressing enter, and choosing to wrestle the target. Then grab a toe, thooth or the nose with a HAND, not something else and pinch it until it stops being listend. I think this does not work on bigger creatures, as I could easly pinch every toe and most thooth from a ground hog (only left incisors but not right ones) but I can only pinch off the nose of dwarves. --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 08:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


I made some "tests" with wrestling, that means, I used a superfast, noexert, super strong creature to rape my entire world. With fists. To be a bit more fair, but thats something else.  Taking down makes the target prone, but nothing else, it seems. Throwing moves the creature quite a bit through the air, however, bigger creatures won't fly as far as smaller creatures (wolves flew 10 spaces, a giant desert scorpion only 1 space, this was with a modded creature) and throwing has the chance that the creature collides with obstacles and other creatures (even with yourself, I was standing in the middle of the town population when I hit myself with a child, I didn't survived), sometimes creatures blow apart, or break their legs.
Pinching is quite powerful, as you can remove mostly everything on your enemy (I had a cougar with only a upper body, lower body and the head left) but you can only pinch off whats on the outside, internal organs (because you can't reach them), mouths, eyes, eyelids, cheeks, lips, and that stuff can't be pinched off and there are some bugs with theeth (left hand can't pinch off right incisiors/eye theeth, but right hand can do it on the first try).
If you want you can use this technic to get a backpack full with ground/vultures, maybe even wolf heads (when unmodded), or you can play oldfashioned theeth doctor and remove all theeth from the local elf population (or their noses if you want).
With a normal dwarf you can easly pinch off the theeth and noses of other dwarves, and most stuff from smaller animals (heads from vultures and groundhogs) but don't try this on stuff thats bigger then you. Don't. It hurts.

([http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3316/thatwasayeti.png] Sadly, that was also a modded adventurer :/ Don't try to repeat)  --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 10:08, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

An adventurer is always going to use wrestling smarter; fortress dwarves don't seem to have the AI to use the lethal moves on enemies (or the sense to use non-damaging holds on civilians,) so they may disable the toughest enemies quickly, they won't get the kill. But the major positive for both play modes is that wrestling ramps up the physical attributes like nothing else, and if you get your wrestling soldiers to switch to using weapons, they're much more formidable than the non-wrestlers.[[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 16:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

==Lasher==

What does this do?
:Skill with whips. You tend to only see it on immigrants and invaders, because whips cannot be made in fortress mode. [[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 16:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Marksdwarf ==

Marksdwarf redirects here, but the word doesn't appear anywhere in the article ...

--[[User:Bazzalisk|Bazzalisk]] 12:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:Added an entry for this, and linked it to the hunting page.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure how it is used.  Perhaps it is for hitting accurately with the first shot, when ambushing?  --[[User:Acru|Acru]] 03:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
::It's the weapon skill for using a crossbow.  Literally.  "Marksdwarf" is to crossbows as "Axedwarf" is to axes.  I guess "Crossbowdwarf" was too long and too close to "Bowdwarf" (uses ordinary bows and arrows) way back when the skill was first coded, and it hasn't been changed since. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I assume that this means it's the skill for using Crossbows in melee? Otherwise, it seems that Marksdwarf and [[Archery]] serve the same purpose. --[[Special:Contributions/173.64.163.5|173.64.163.5]] 22:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
::::Marksdwarf is specifically for using a crossbow to shoot bolts, just as bowdwarf is specifically for using a bow to shoot arrows, and blowgunner is specifically for using a blowgun to shoot darts. And actually, Hammerdwarf is the skill for using Crossbows in melee. --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 05:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
*Okay, after some arena testing... Marksdwarf decreases reload time for crossbows.  It also seems to boost accuracy. Archery seems to boost accuracy, as well, but not as much as Marksdwarf does. I can't tell for damage - I guess that would mainly be up to the material and quality of the bolt. I haven't done enough testing to determine the exact amounts by which the skills affect things - just some "create naked dwarves with crossbows/bolts and let them shoot each other". --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

== Bowdwarf ==
Can dwarves use bows? An immigrant showed up with the skill, so I bought one from the human caravan and adjusted his Equipment list to specifically carry it. He refuses to use it, though, and I just got the message that he's "become highly attached" to his -oak crossbow-.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any way to get him, and him alone, to carry the arrows that I bought for the thing. I can tell the entire squad to carry arrows as well as bolts, but I'm guessing they'll all grab a stack then. 

Curiously, I didn't even have to assign the *bronze scourge* to anyone. One of my melee guys picked it up straight out of the depot. --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 06:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
:A quick arena-test (and a not-so-quick fortress mode test) show dwarves can use bows. At a loose guess, though, crossbows do more damage and are more accurate, at the cost of being slower to reload. So he's probably picking the crossbow because of that. Similarly, your melee guy decided the superior-quality scourge was better than anything else he could grab. Does he have Lasher skill?

:I don't think a mixed squad will grab unusable ammunition.  That said, I'd probably just let him go with the crossbow anyways - being able to make the ammo (and therefore control quality, materials, production scheduling...) counts for a lot. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:: As I suspected, anyone in the unit will grab the ammo listed for that squad, so one of his squadmates was running around with a crossbow and arrows, while the bowdwarf was running around with a quiver of bolts and a bronze bow. --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 06:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Mixed archery squads ''will'' grab the wrong ammo type for their weapon, almost without fail. This was a constant problem until I separated the bow-shooters and crossbowdwarfs, and their ammo types, into separate squads. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 16:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==From [[v0.31 Talk:Fighter]]==
+==From [[DF2010 Talk:Fighter]]==
 Made the page but I really dont know how to lay out wiki pages so :-\...
 Also, I dont know anything about the actual skill :P I just thought there should be a page for it... --[[User:Huggz|Huggz]] 00:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 ==Lasher==
-What does this do?<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:81.3.116.173|81.3.116.173]]</small>
+What does this do?
 :Skill with whips. You tend to only see it on immigrants and invaders, because whips cannot be made in fortress mode. [[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 16:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
-::can you buy wips? or do goblins drop them?<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:70.67.155.48|70.67.155.48]]</small>
-:::Since humans have them listed in their entity definitions... they might have 'em for trade, as well as use.  Otherwise, your major source will be the goblins. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:42, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 == Marksdwarf ==
 Marksdwarf redirects here, but the word doesn't appear anywhere in the article ...
 --[[User:Bazzalisk|Bazzalisk]] 12:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 53: / Line 52: @@
 ::::Marksdwarf is specifically for using a crossbow to shoot bolts, just as bowdwarf is specifically for using a bow to shoot arrows, and blowgunner is specifically for using a blowgun to shoot darts. And actually, Hammerdwarf is the skill for using Crossbows in melee. --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 05:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 *Okay, after some arena testing... Marksdwarf decreases reload time for crossbows.  It also seems to boost accuracy. Archery seems to boost accuracy, as well, but not as much as Marksdwarf does. I can't tell for damage - I guess that would mainly be up to the material and quality of the bolt. I haven't done enough testing to determine the exact amounts by which the skills affect things - just some "create naked dwarves with crossbows/bolts and let them shoot each other". --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
-Marksdwarf still redirects here, and STILL doesn't appear in the article.  If we know what it does, then please add it!  -- [[User:Maunder|Maunder]] 06:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
-:*'''''Crossbowman''' skill allows characters to use crossbows more effectively. The dwarven version is called '''Marksdwarf'''''.
-:Yes, it does. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:45, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 == Bowdwarf ==
@@ Line 71: / Line 66: @@
 :: Mixed archery squads ''will'' grab the wrong ammo type for their weapon, almost without fail. This was a constant problem until I separated the bow-shooters and crossbowdwarfs, and their ammo types, into separate squads. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 16:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Bowdwarf + Crossbowdwarf Question ==
-Can they shoot between z layers?  I am just wondering because I got's this amazing wall, and don't want to waste men on archers that don't shoot until something wanders to the walls....
-:Archers will shoot anything within their line of sight - this can be on a lower Z-level, but know that this will reduce the archer's range. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:02, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
-== Biter ==
-I was playing a wrestler in adventure mode, and was specializing in the throat-mangling category. I did manage to bite quite a few throats and all, but when I looked into the adventurer's status, I found that the person ''had not gained any experience at all''!
-[http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/expfk.jpg/ (picture)]
-Is this a bug of sorts?