Editing v0.31 Talk:Giant cave spider

==Cave Wide Web==
Does anyone know where giant cave spiders create their web? I've captured one in a cagetrap and released it in a room (in a layer of clay, if that matters). I hoped it to fill it with webs, cagetrap it again and gather the precious giant cave spider webs safely. But it doesn't make a single one web. I wonder why? --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:05, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
:If it's like the previous version, a better way to get them to web is to provoke them with animals or dwarves that they'll shoot at (for example, you could have your spider be an engine that turns kittens into high-quality clothing!). --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 05:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
::Yep, that does the trick, thanks. Well, dogs do, the most of them at least, for most of them attack the spider, which then fights back with web, leaving about 6-7 webs per dog. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 14:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

==Another Web Question==
There's plenty of giant cave spider webs underground, as my adventurer can attest. He hasn't met any so far, and I'm sure he's relieved :D Are the webs randomly generated, or are they actually giant cave spiders running around and avoiding my hero? --[[User:Dagoth Urist|Dagoth Urist]] 19:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:In fortress mode, where there are webs there are spiders.  Sometimes they are in stealth mode, though, until it is too late!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:13, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

== Farming ==

Is the method on the main page verified?  In previous versions, the spider had to be able to pathfind to the target before it would spit webs (just like all other breath weapon users).  I suspect this is another 'great idea' by someone who's never tested it, much like the oft-mentioned dragon/fireimp turrets that are far more difficult to construct than most people think. [[Special:Contributions/98.212.62.219|98.212.62.219]] 18:15, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'm trying to verify it now. I modified the object testing arena a bit and added this (top view):
  ...FFF...
  .G.FDF...
  ...FFF...
  G=Giant cave spider
  F=Fortification
  D=Dwarf.
  .=Floor
:Nothing happened. The reverse, where the cave spider is in the fortification cell and the dwarf outside, didn't work either. What did work was having them standing on two platforms like this:
  #####
  #G#D#
  #####
  G=GCS
  D=Dwarf
  #=Empty space
:What happened here was that the GCS sporadically shot at the dwarf. They didn't do it as fast as they do in a fight, but they did shoot web. They seem to shoot more web the more targets there are, but I can't really verify this. I did two similar setups with platforms as above, where one platform had ~70 dwarfs on it. The one with more target seemed to shoot more frequently. 
:SO: A viable way to farm GCS silk is a bit hard. The silk doesn't seem to fall down z-levels, and can hang in the air. Just having two pillars would make the collecting part a bit difficult, as noone could reach the silk. Perhaps one could let the GCS shoot at his enemy for a while, and when you're satisfied, a retractable bridge could form a floor to walk on from the main fortress. This would of course let the GCS reach the populated parts of your fortress, but a simple cage trap would solve this issue. This wouldn't work if a retractable bridge destroys raw silk. I haven't tested this, but it's a thought. And if this doesn't work, one could always pit cats in the same room as the GCS.
/[[User:Josj|Josj]] 02:53, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
:The web doesn't seem to stack, so it would be smarter to have an animal that runs around the GCS all the time than one just standing on a pillar to maximise the produced web. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 02:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
::Although the web object spans empty space and not stack, my experience in 40d is that a bridge (particularly a retracting bridge, which tosses objects when it both opens and closes, as opposed to raising, which crushes objects when it lowers) will toss the webbing, creating a loose "web" that can then fall and stack together. However, I have not yet caught a GCS in .31 so I am not sure if certain rules (particularly regarding the silk) have changed. That said, it does appear that the method listed in the article should be removed as fortifications still do not appear allow pathfinding/webshooting. [[User:Niveras|Niveras]] 18:48, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, you could probably go without a bridge. Just having the GCS in a 2x1 indentation in the wall to room, with a channel in front of it, and a creature it will attack in the main room. One could even make this setup:
  WWWWWW+WWWWWW
  WWWWW   WWWWW
  WWWWW d WWWWW
  WWWWW   WWWWW    W=wall
  WWWWWW+WWWWWW    #=open space
  W   WW#WW   W    +=door
  + d +#G#+ d +     =floor
  W   WW#WW   W    G=GCS
  WWWWWW+WWWWWW    d=dog (or whatever creature that the GCS will attack)
  WWWWW   WWWWW
  WWWWW d WWWWW
  WWWWW   WWWWW
  WWWWWW+WWWWWW
:::Let the GCS shoot at one of the dogs. Close the door from the GCS to the room where you want to farm and open another door. Rinse and repeat. The dorfs won't run away from the GCS and the GCS is always free to shoot. One could remove the micromanagement from the exercise by creating a timer that opens and closes doors automatically. You can even put looms in the spaces between the dog rooms, if you'd like. But this plan borders on [[v0.31:Stupid dwarf trick|stupid]].
::::Finally caught a GCS in order to test this method. As somewhat expected, the empty spaces do not allow pathfinding and thus the spider does not shoot the chained animals. (Aside: confirmed that my slightly modified [increased frequency of traveling through and in additional caverns layers] untamed spider still shoots silk by letting it run free in a test case.) Also moved the chain one block closer (such that part of the 3x3 square of allowed movement would overlap slightly with the walls), still did not allow web. You could add fortifications around the doors (mechanised doors apparently still allow pathfinding, even when closed) but of course them your silk collectors will get job cancellations from seeing the spider. It would seem that if you want to produce silk you will need to rely on the standard fortifications-with-forbidden-door (with retracting bridge pits depending on desire complexity/automation). Incidentally, despite having building destroyer:1, untamed GCS do not destroy doors. [[User:Niveras|Niveras]] 20:12, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I'm removing the farming section in the article as noone seems to have posted a working solution that has been tested in DF mode. I've just played around with it in arena mode in v.31.06.

 ╔═══════════╗
 ║+++++++++++║
 ║+++++++++++║
 ║++++++╥╔═══╣
 ≡++++++║╬╞╡+║
 ║++++++║╬+╬┼╣
 ║++++++║╬g╬S║
 ║++++++║╬+╬┼╣
 ≡++++++║╬╞╡+║
 ║++++++╨╚═══╣
 ║+++++++++++║
 ║+++++++++++║
 ╚═══════════╝
:Above is my personal GCS silk farm design which has proven to be remarkably effective. Build a single lever somewhere which is connected to the 2 floodgates on the left and the 3 raising bridges on the right (each of which raises toward the goblin, forming a solid wall the entire length of the bridge). The "g" is a goblin attached to a chain, and the GCS itself is '''tamed and unchained''' (i.e. drop it in from above). Both doors surrounding the spider are unlocked and marked as pet impassable. To reduce lag, place a meeting zone on the GCS's tile so that it calms down when the chamber is open for web collection. Actually chaining up the goblin is a bit tricky, since you'll need to make sure your animal trainer doesn't get distracted and try to kill it. The room can be in 2 states, depending on the position of the lever - in one state, the floodgates are open (allowing your dwarves to enter) and the left bridge is raised (so they don't see the goblin and run away) and the upper and lower bridges are raised (blocking the spider's path to the bait, so it doesn't cause lag), and in the other state, the floodgates are closed (keeping your dwarves out) and all 3 bridges are lowered (giving the spider a path to the goblin, and allowing the webs to land in the collection area). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

::I've added a short section on the concerns when building a silk farm, and left Quietust's prototype silk farm.  Still, I have to wonder why we have a prototype here that relies on altering the raws?  Tame GCS aren't necessary for silk farming; wild GCS can work just fine.  What's the issue?  Happy to include a non-tame GCS farm if it'd be better.  [[Special:Contributions/98.203.173.56|98.203.173.56]] 07:56, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
:::This design actually [http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-18158-silkfarm originated in 0.28.181.40d] (albeit without some of the refinements) where no raw modifications were necessary - the only reason the raws have to be modified is to work around a bug in the game (namely, that the Dungeon Master never shows up [and doesn't work even if you assign one through other means]). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Oops I must not have saved.  Oh well.  So instead of changing your beautiful design, I just added a bit of explanation/theory (doors allow pathing thus web) and some guidelines for players to build their own silk farms with wild GCS if they want.  I think any reasonably experienced player should be able to figure it out from your tame version.  Hope that's cool.  [[Special:Contributions/98.203.173.56|98.203.173.56]] 18:55, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::Part of your edit suggested using a larger chamber for the spider itself, explaining that triggering a cage via lever might cause the cage or mechanism to prop one of the doors open - does that actually happen even when both doors are completely locked? Also, my design doesn't actually involve chaining the spider (to which you were listing the lever/cage release as an alternative) - it involves dropping it from above using a Pit/Pond zone, which generally works for wild animals as long as the cage is immediately adjacent to the hole (though I didn't come up with the idea of pitting the spider until after the 2nd time I built it). I suspect using a wild spider would also permit removing the 1-tile meeting zone, since wild animals don't do that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::Whoops, yeah, fixed the wording on that.  I'll do some testing on forbidden doors and deconstructed levers, in case I was mistaken and the door was just closed securely rather than locked all the way.  Just trying to save people some of the headache I've worked through :) Large wild animals aren't safe to pit in this version, even adjacent: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  I would think it's not worth the risk with a GCS, too easy to get the poor thing killed.  Or, umm, your dwarves, I guess :) [[Special:Contributions/98.203.173.56|98.203.173.56]] 20:06, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::Deconstructing cages next to forbidden doors is safe.  Adjusted wording.  GCS seems to path as well through forbidden doors as tight doors anyways.[[Special:Contributions/98.203.173.56|98.203.173.56]] 07:00, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


== Goblin Pit ==
Is there a reason why the goblins I drop into my giant cave spider pit aren't being attacked? They have no weapons and armor, and the spider isn't tamed. Will it eat them when it gets hungry? [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 21:03, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:You need a tame spider if you want it to attack goblins.  Use a tame animal if you want a wild spider to attack it.  [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 05:17, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

== Web shooting makes the game ignore the [TRAPAVOID] on creatures==
When a creature walks into a GCS web, it falls down and the web gets removed. If the web is on top of a trap, the trap will be activated. <br />
''Even when the creature has normally [TRAPAVOID]''<br />
It has the same effect like falling unconcious.<br />
''Except it works for creatures too that normally don't fall unconcious, like FBs and HFS.''<br />
Someone on the forums heard about this rumor, and looked if someone can proof it. I was able to proof it (by adding [COMMON_DOMESTIC] to GCS) and piercing the HFS. And yes its goddamn working! Capture a GCS (tamed works best) and stuff it behind fortification (I have heard that they only shoot at stuff which they can path too, use doors (if its tame) so it THINKS it can path to it) that is next to your (trapfilled) entrance, it will shoot at incomming HFS and FBs, which will THEN activate the traps. Even cage traps. You can add HFS and FBs to your zoo/arena now, isn't that awesome?

(For the corridor layout, you can use the same as I did: [http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1397/steambrutecage.png] ) --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

:I am sure it should be noted on a page, but I don't know if it should be on the GCS page, or on the page about webs. What do you think?--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 10:39, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


==Tamed Giant Spiders don't shoot at enemies==
You sure thats true? Cause I have seen them shooting at enemies.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 09:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

:I can verify that tamed GCS shoot at enemies. But they do very rarely, I think only if they are under attack (as they are not trainable for war, they are often running away instead of fighting). --[[User:ZetaX|ZetaX]] 14:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

== Wild GCS not hostile to cats ==
I have a giant cave spider pit with an untamed GCS at the bottom. I was planning on using it to dispose of excess cats, but it doesn't attack them at all! It happily attacks other animals though--my GCS pit has two puppy skeletons, a cow calf corpse, a live cat, and three live kittens. Can anyone else confirm this? [[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 21:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it occurred to me. A GCS ran right past a cat to get to my dwarves.

Cats have [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] token that is forced by [VERMIN_HUNTER]. This means that they are "friends" with spider and some of the other creatures.
:AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE is '''not''' forced by VERMIN_HUNTER - it just used to be ''part'' of it before it was split into separate tokens. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)