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Editing 40d Talk:Starting build
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Hey, I'll have to see who wrote these starting builds and see if I can't contact him/her, but "About & Challenges" sounds uh... not informational? How about "Overview"? I don't want to edit your work here without your approval (even though I could do so on my own.) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT) | Hey, I'll have to see who wrote these starting builds and see if I can't contact him/her, but "About & Challenges" sounds uh... not informational? How about "Overview"? I don't want to edit your work here without your approval (even though I could do so on my own.) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT) | ||
: Feel free to adjust the "About & Challenges" to anything else. It was just something to group one of the blocks of text and encourage others to write similar blocks of text. "Overview" sounds much better. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 22:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT) | : Feel free to adjust the "About & Challenges" to anything else. It was just something to group one of the blocks of text and encourage others to write similar blocks of text. "Overview" sounds much better. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 22:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT) | ||
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:Steel axes are the only axes available on the preparation screen now. Does anyone know if this is a bug or not? --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:47, 1 November 2007 (EDT) | :Steel axes are the only axes available on the preparation screen now. Does anyone know if this is a bug or not? --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:47, 1 November 2007 (EDT) | ||
− | : | + | :Digging speed is not affected by the material the pick is made out of, as explained on the [[pick]] page. Neither are [[battle axe]]s. Therefore, you should just take the cheapest one. I've never been able to pick any axes other than steel either, however. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 17:33, 10 November 2007 (EST) |
== Layout == | == Layout == | ||
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* The comment "This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost." is factually incorrect. A 4-point plump helmet gets you five 2-point booze, plus several seeds, for each one brewed; all of this can become food. I know of no cheaper way to ensure both food and drink than bringing plump helmets. | * The comment "This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost." is factually incorrect. A 4-point plump helmet gets you five 2-point booze, plus several seeds, for each one brewed; all of this can become food. I know of no cheaper way to ensure both food and drink than bringing plump helmets. | ||
* Bringing stone is unnecessary to make workshops. Just make the temporary buildings out of logs or raw materials and free them up later. | * Bringing stone is unnecessary to make workshops. Just make the temporary buildings out of logs or raw materials and free them up later. | ||
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* The comment "as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon" is incorrect in my experience; I've known times when a horse was pulling the wagon, but more likely than not I don't have one. | * The comment "as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon" is incorrect in my experience; I've known times when a horse was pulling the wagon, but more likely than not I don't have one. | ||
* The comment "The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional" is totally false for many fortress sites and requires a skilled, experienced player at all others. | * The comment "The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional" is totally false for many fortress sites and requires a skilled, experienced player at all others. | ||
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: Agreed [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:03, 12 December 2007 (EST) | : Agreed [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:03, 12 December 2007 (EST) | ||
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== Starting builds page sucks == | == Starting builds page sucks == | ||
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:I believe ambusher has to be the (joint) highest skill level that dwarf has to get the free equipment. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 10:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT) | :I believe ambusher has to be the (joint) highest skill level that dwarf has to get the free equipment. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 10:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT) | ||
::As of 27.176.38c, a Marksdwarf 4/Ambusher 2/Armor User 2/Wrestler 2 gets free armor + weapon + bolts, but if you mix in *any* civilian skills they seem to not get the free equipment. --[[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:00, 19 May 2008 (EDT) | ::As of 27.176.38c, a Marksdwarf 4/Ambusher 2/Armor User 2/Wrestler 2 gets free armor + weapon + bolts, but if you mix in *any* civilian skills they seem to not get the free equipment. --[[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:00, 19 May 2008 (EDT) | ||
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==Disagreement with the thrust of the builds== | ==Disagreement with the thrust of the builds== | ||
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I consider my starting skills as follows: | I consider my starting skills as follows: | ||
− | (1) What is fast and easy to train without any investment (take no ranks in these skills) | + | (1) What is fast and easy to train without any investment (take no ranks in these skills) |
− | (2) What would be especially valuable to get a legendary off a mood (take a full 5 ranks in some such skills, don't pair with other mood skills if possible) | + | (2) What would be especially valuable to get a legendary off a mood (take a full 5 ranks in some such skills, don't pair with other mood skills if possible) |
− | (3) Which skills are absolutely essential and don't fall under 1. | + | (3) Which skills are absolutely essential and don't fall under 1. |
My generic choice looks something like the following, although I vary a little based on fortress goals: | My generic choice looks something like the following, although I vary a little based on fortress goals: | ||
− | Armorer 5/Leader stuff (Negotiator/Appraiser/JoI/Consoler/Flatterer usually) | + | Armorer 5/Leader stuff (Negotiator/Appraiser/JoI/Consoler/Flatterer usually) |
He'll do really early mining until he hits Skilled (so as not to risk the valuable Armorer skill as the mood skill) and then be put on bookkeeping as soon as he gets an office. | He'll do really early mining until he hits Skilled (so as not to risk the valuable Armorer skill as the mood skill) and then be put on bookkeeping as soon as he gets an office. | ||
− | Weaponsmith 5/xxx 5 | + | Weaponsmith 5/xxx 5 |
The xxx is generally another craft, often metalsmithing. He has a high likelihood of weaponsmithing for a mood (also valuable), especially as he's more likely to do some weaponsmithing before anything else (since he'll be making the battleaxe at the beginning). Also a possible early miner. | The xxx is generally another craft, often metalsmithing. He has a high likelihood of weaponsmithing for a mood (also valuable), especially as he's more likely to do some weaponsmithing before anything else (since he'll be making the battleaxe at the beginning). Also a possible early miner. | ||
− | Mason 5/Building Designer 5 | + | Mason 5/Building Designer 5 - The mason is mostly the go-to dwarf for building structures, so architecture is the only logical combo. Its also rare enough a skill to be demanded that it won't interfere with his masonry much, and hard enough to level (with substantial impact on the value of structures like roads and wells) that I can't justify starting it less than 5. |
− | The mason is mostly the go-to dwarf for building structures, so architecture is the only logical combo. Its also rare enough a skill to be demanded that it won't interfere with his masonry much, and hard enough to level (with substantial impact on the value of structures like roads and wells) that I can't justify starting it less than 5. | ||
− | Brewer 5/Grower 5 | + | Brewer 5/Grower 5 |
− | Cook 5/Grower 5 | + | Cook 5/Grower 5 |
I'm a big fan of entirely underground farming to start with - any other farming can be splashed after trading with the elves/humans and getting seeds from their plants later - indoor farming is more than sufficient for the fortress's food needs, so no herbalist needed. And these two can feed a fortress of 200 without breaking a sweat. They will each smith one copper pick in the beginning for a splash of metalsmithing in case they get a mood. | I'm a big fan of entirely underground farming to start with - any other farming can be splashed after trading with the elves/humans and getting seeds from their plants later - indoor farming is more than sufficient for the fortress's food needs, so no herbalist needed. And these two can feed a fortress of 200 without breaking a sweat. They will each smith one copper pick in the beginning for a splash of metalsmithing in case they get a mood. | ||
− | Carpenter 5/xxx 5 | + | Carpenter 5/xxx 5 |
− | Mechanic 5/xxx 5 | + | Mechanic 5/xxx 5 |
Finally, I'll need a mechanic and a carpenter. What I splash with them will vary from game to game. Often I find my carpenter and mechanic doing a lot of work early and later having abundant freetime, so another craft is often in order (generally having the two of them in the same production tree), though this is where I vary my skill set the most. As their secondaries aren't going to be the mood skill, its not worth sticking valuable metal skills here though. But clothing line or gem setter/glassmaker are good bets (other glass industry skills, including gem cutting, don't have any impacts on quality of most items). I've also run second masons here and so forth. | Finally, I'll need a mechanic and a carpenter. What I splash with them will vary from game to game. Often I find my carpenter and mechanic doing a lot of work early and later having abundant freetime, so another craft is often in order (generally having the two of them in the same production tree), though this is where I vary my skill set the most. As their secondaries aren't going to be the mood skill, its not worth sticking valuable metal skills here though. But clothing line or gem setter/glassmaker are good bets (other glass industry skills, including gem cutting, don't have any impacts on quality of most items). I've also run second masons here and so forth. | ||
Skills I absolutely don't start with: Woodcutting, Mining, Stone/Bone/Wood Crafting, Herbalist (unless I'm trying to live above ground entirely for the last one). Woodcutting, Mining, and those crafting skills all train fast. And Mining will have plenty of practice time as I hollow out storage and living spaces before I need to worry about rock retention rate. I generally pass mining duties on to dedicated miners with the first immigrant wave (generally sometime in the first summer) and then level them to legendary as fast as possible with fortress expansion, prospecting, and random busywork if need be. I also rarely start with any military skills - mass drafting and mechanical traps can handle the early game without a problem. By the time I expect real opposition I'll have had immigrants I don't know what to do with that I can draft and set to training - often producing champions before the first real wave of goblins hits. | Skills I absolutely don't start with: Woodcutting, Mining, Stone/Bone/Wood Crafting, Herbalist (unless I'm trying to live above ground entirely for the last one). Woodcutting, Mining, and those crafting skills all train fast. And Mining will have plenty of practice time as I hollow out storage and living spaces before I need to worry about rock retention rate. I generally pass mining duties on to dedicated miners with the first immigrant wave (generally sometime in the first summer) and then level them to legendary as fast as possible with fortress expansion, prospecting, and random busywork if need be. I also rarely start with any military skills - mass drafting and mechanical traps can handle the early game without a problem. By the time I expect real opposition I'll have had immigrants I don't know what to do with that I can draft and set to training - often producing champions before the first real wave of goblins hits. | ||
− | Starting equipment: | + | Starting equipment: |
Anvil, some copper and iron bars, some rock (generally bauxite), 1 charcoal, some Bituminous Coal, min/maxed food/drink supplies with an emphasis on turtles, seeds (generally 10 Rock Nuts, 1 of all the others, and i'll get plump helmet spawn to plant with from consumed/brewed plump helmets i bring with me), and some random bits of cloth, leather, thread, cut gems, etc... for insurance against moods. I'll often try to bring an animal that will likely pair up with one of the wagon animals (if Muskoxen are available, its a sure choice). Early game involves building a smelter, making coke, build a forge, make 2 picks (team grower) and an axe, and build some other essential buildings out of bauxite temporarily (this keeps the bauxite locked up and thus not crafted into doors or tables - i'll want it for mechanisms and floodgates later). | Anvil, some copper and iron bars, some rock (generally bauxite), 1 charcoal, some Bituminous Coal, min/maxed food/drink supplies with an emphasis on turtles, seeds (generally 10 Rock Nuts, 1 of all the others, and i'll get plump helmet spawn to plant with from consumed/brewed plump helmets i bring with me), and some random bits of cloth, leather, thread, cut gems, etc... for insurance against moods. I'll often try to bring an animal that will likely pair up with one of the wagon animals (if Muskoxen are available, its a sure choice). Early game involves building a smelter, making coke, build a forge, make 2 picks (team grower) and an axe, and build some other essential buildings out of bauxite temporarily (this keeps the bauxite locked up and thus not crafted into doors or tables - i'll want it for mechanisms and floodgates later). | ||
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--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:46, 20 November 2008 (EST) | --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:46, 20 November 2008 (EST) | ||
− | + | --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:46, 20 November 2008 (EST) | |
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