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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Weapon"
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(Created page with "== Quality and its effects == In the section Quality and strange moods it is mentioned that quality affects sharpness (base quality has "5...") |
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== Quality and its effects == | == Quality and its effects == | ||
| − | In the section [[Weapon#Quality_and_strange_moods|Quality and strange moods]] it is mentioned that quality affects sharpness (base quality has "50%" sharpness, for example). I can't find any source for that, and it's a bit confusing. Later, on the [[Weapon#Combat_formulae|Combat formulae]] section, that sharpness percentage is no longer used. In that section, I interpret that the used value is the raws number (divided by 10.000) and the weapon quality multiplier. If my understanding is correct, then either the sharpness % is not used (in which case I don't know why it would be there) or there is something missing to understand it correctly. | + | In the section [[Weapon#Quality_and_strange_moods|Quality and strange moods]] it is mentioned that quality affects sharpness (base quality has "50%" sharpness, for example). I can't find any source for that, and it's a bit confusing. Later, on the [[Weapon#Combat_formulae|Combat formulae]] section, that sharpness percentage is no longer used. In that section, I interpret that the used value is the raws number (divided by 10.000) and the weapon quality multiplier. If my understanding is correct, then either the sharpness % is not used (in which case I don't know why it would be there) or there is something missing to understand it correctly. --[[User:Jose96xd|Jose96xd]] ([[User talk:Jose96xd|talk]]) 14:10, 24 October 2024 (UTC) |
| − | + | :The "source" for weapon quality affecting sharpness is an analysis of the game's code - all weapons (and ammo, siege ammo, trap components, tools, and small rocks) have a "current_edge" property, and it's initialized to 50-100% of the material's MAX_EDGE based on its quality level. Exactly how that sharpness works into the damage formula, I don't know. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |
| − | [[User:Jose96xd|Jose96xd]] ([[User talk:Jose96xd|talk]]) | + | :It's in the second formula as "Sha * w_quality", though it looks to me like the explanation for w_quality should use the percentages instead of the multipliers.[[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 02:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC) |
| + | :That actually makes sense since the multipliers it mentions currently (x1 base quality, x3 artifact) seem to be about the probability to hit. I have programmed the formulas and can easily change stuff and will try to gather experimental data. --[[User:Jose96xd|Jose96xd]] ([[User talk:Jose96xd|talk]]) 07:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
| + | :I have run some tests. With base-quality iron spears, math using the current weapon quality (x1 base quality, x3 artifact) should penetrate steel armor, but it doesn't. If we use the sharp quality multiplier (50% base quality, 100% artifact), the results of the experiments and the math match. I believe that's the proper number to use in the formula. I'm going to change this page and the material science page (since the formula comes from there). If there is any other place that also uses this formula (with the x1, x3 rather than the %) it should be changed too. --[[User:Jose96xd|Jose96xd]] ([[User talk:Jose96xd|talk]]) 10:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
| + | ::Be careful when changing the formulas - your latest modification actually '''changes the numerical result''', which means it might be incorrect now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 12:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
| + | ::I don't think I follow. There is no section with numerical results for the edge condition, so I don't know what you mean. The previous formula (or at least my implementation of it) didn't match the experimental results, and it didn't make logical sense for the "hit chance" to be the one multiplying the sharpness of the material (basically, before the sharpness % weren't used anywhere). --[[User:Jose96xd|Jose96xd]] ([[User talk:Jose96xd|talk]]) 13:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
Latest revision as of 13:09, 25 October 2024
Quality and its effects[edit]
In the section Quality and strange moods it is mentioned that quality affects sharpness (base quality has "50%" sharpness, for example). I can't find any source for that, and it's a bit confusing. Later, on the Combat formulae section, that sharpness percentage is no longer used. In that section, I interpret that the used value is the raws number (divided by 10.000) and the weapon quality multiplier. If my understanding is correct, then either the sharpness % is not used (in which case I don't know why it would be there) or there is something missing to understand it correctly. --Jose96xd (talk) 14:10, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- The "source" for weapon quality affecting sharpness is an analysis of the game's code - all weapons (and ammo, siege ammo, trap components, tools, and small rocks) have a "current_edge" property, and it's initialized to 50-100% of the material's MAX_EDGE based on its quality level. Exactly how that sharpness works into the damage formula, I don't know. --Quietust (talk) 01:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's in the second formula as "Sha * w_quality", though it looks to me like the explanation for w_quality should use the percentages instead of the multipliers.Ziusudra (talk) 02:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- That actually makes sense since the multipliers it mentions currently (x1 base quality, x3 artifact) seem to be about the probability to hit. I have programmed the formulas and can easily change stuff and will try to gather experimental data. --Jose96xd (talk) 07:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- I have run some tests. With base-quality iron spears, math using the current weapon quality (x1 base quality, x3 artifact) should penetrate steel armor, but it doesn't. If we use the sharp quality multiplier (50% base quality, 100% artifact), the results of the experiments and the math match. I believe that's the proper number to use in the formula. I'm going to change this page and the material science page (since the formula comes from there). If there is any other place that also uses this formula (with the x1, x3 rather than the %) it should be changed too. --Jose96xd (talk) 10:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- Be careful when changing the formulas - your latest modification actually changes the numerical result, which means it might be incorrect now. --Quietust (talk) 12:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think I follow. There is no section with numerical results for the edge condition, so I don't know what you mean. The previous formula (or at least my implementation of it) didn't match the experimental results, and it didn't make logical sense for the "hit chance" to be the one multiplying the sharpness of the material (basically, before the sharpness % weren't used anywhere). --Jose96xd (talk) 13:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC)