40d Talk:Magma

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the Magma smelter article, which state that using Fire-safe materials is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?Thexor 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? Diabl0658 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --Erathoniel 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out this article and this site list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?

It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.

So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. Schm0 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--UltimaGecko 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--SL 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --RedKing 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

Magmapool/pipe section

Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. MOOMANiBE 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – unsigned comment by Zara

As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --Janus 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. Zara 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

Added new section

I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. MOOMANiBE 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. VengefulDonut 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)

The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. MOOMANiBE 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)

I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. VengefulDonut 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)

they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -Chariot 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)

I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. MOOMANiBE 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)

yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -Chariot 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. VengefulDonut 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. MOOMANiBE 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)

This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --Sergius 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --Stalinbulldog 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --Zombiejustice 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --Stalinbulldog 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.

• bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)
• bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
• bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)

Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
Imajia 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--Imajia 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

Replenishing Magma

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --Romantic Warrior 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --Sphexx 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Temperature

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --Ikkonoishi 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. Zaranthan 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --Edward 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Flow?

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --Eagle of Fire 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --User:Stromko January 6th, 2007

I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --SL 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--Demosthenes 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --Kaypy 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --GreyMaria 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Criteria for Magma Buildings

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - Confused Rat

Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --Eagle of Fire 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the Enable Magma Buildings utility to make them appear. --Valdemar 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in pits isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --Someone-else 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Infinity Generators?

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Highlord Asehujiko (talk•contribs)

Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the cheating article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --Edward 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --Someone-else 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Lava vs. Magma

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use k to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --Doctorlucky 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

There is none, just the name. --Savok 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -Chariot 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Ah, so magma which is Outside is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --Doctorlucky 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Magma vs puppy?

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed. --Sphexx 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Chasm Confusion

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--Stalinbulldog 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is

Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --Corona688 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version

beware wooden floodgates not only do they burn(as I planned) but i scattered magma all around the room it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse. it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god... 60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)Eerr

Magma cooling?

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --OmegaX 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." MagicGuigz 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of bars across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the mechanism is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported Bauxite on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off? --17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Or you could make your life much simpler with Fortifications. RomeoFalling 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

How? Fortifications allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them at all. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--Macdjord 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.

--Maximus 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. Template:Qd

Random832 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--Maximus 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.

--Macdjord 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Magma Ate My Wall

While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --RomeoFalling 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. Timst 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --ThunderClaw 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --RomeoFalling 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)

That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --ThunderClaw 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)

I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --Corona688 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --ThunderClaw 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --Corona688 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

@Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.

For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.

--RomeoFalling 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Disambiguation

I see the term magma pipe and magma vent being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --RomeoFalling 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --GreyMaria 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Magma Vs. Sand

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --Alkyon 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--Maximus 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Ah, thanks. --Alkyon 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --Destor 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --Alkyon 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

• 

  Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)

• 

  1 z-level down (main hallway)

• 

  2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)

Regarding Boatmurdered

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --GreyMaria 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)

Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--Dorten

But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --GreyMaria 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)

You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood in the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--Maximus 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --GreyMaria 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)