User talk:VengefulDonut

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"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --Savok

Well, since linking externally isn't popular, and copying part-content isn't popular, might as well give up --TinyPirate 05:11, 19 February 2009 (EST)

Re Parser Functions: Hmm... it was working in august, and supposedly in january at some point. I guess i'll have to stop using my templates that relies on it, even though it was working back in august. :| thanks for the info -- Vaevictus 02:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did you revert my work on the Metal page about the different Value gains for making Billon with different ores?--Mrdudeguy 05:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

re stones

Thanks for the input - don't want to overstep trying to be "helpful" if I'm working off of bad info. But is a vein of Al an anomaly in the current version? I'm unsure how to read the RAW's at that level.

(edit) - matgloss_stone_mineral says...

"[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]" 

- is that supposed to be small clusters only? --Albedo 07:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

"Refined Coal" vs "Fuel"

Hey - okay, I've learned a lot since the above changes. About the game, about this wiki - thanks again for your comments. On a different subject...

I find the term "refined coal" unnecessarily confusing. Refined coal, charcoal, bituminous coal - and coke (which is like coal, right?). But doesn't only mined coal get refined? Wood is not refined - charcoal is not coal - does charcoal get refined after it's produced? Bleh. When I first read that page, a day-one n00b in the game, it was complete gibberish, and even now it takes some wading through. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but still...

I never see the term "refined coal" used anywhere in the game or forums. However, you are the one who originally changed the designated term from fuel to rc in the first place, over a year ago...

"6:28, 21 February 2008 VengefulDonut (Talk | contribs) m (Refined Coal moved to Refined coal: in accordance to naming conventions)"

What are the "naming conventions" you are referring to? Was that simply to match the term used in the article to the page title?

I'd like to put that entire article under "Fuel", and retire the term "refined coal" in favor of that word. Nothing else need change - with the exception of that one term, the page as is would be copied/pasted and moved whole cloth. (Currently, "fuel" redirects to the "refined coal" page.) A short explanation on th RC page, to save the history & directing people to Fuel. Redirects from "charcoal" and "coke" would go to "fuel". Any coal would then be either Bituminous or Char-, and the world a little brighter. imo.

But, while "B" is for Bold, I thought there was nothing lost in asking your opinion on the move first, since you were the one to see cause to change it in the first place. (respond on my page or in forums if you'd prefer) --Albedo 22:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was 
"Refined Coal".... 
...However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only 
"refined coal" appears in-game. VengefulDonut 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 

Ah - all I could tell from the history was that you were the first to replace the term "fuel" with refined coal". Hmmm - when you have none and try to queue a task at a conventional smelter, you get the message "Must have coal fuel" - yet another vague and inaccurate term with "coal" - bonus. When you have some but run out before your queued tasks are complete, you get the "jpb cancels smelt <ore>: needs refined coal" message you are remembering. So much for in-game consistency (much less clarity).

The term "fuel" is what's used commonly (if informally) as a clear catch-all for both types - when you read the instructions "you need fuel for a smelter", that's both accurate and not misleading. A wiki needs to be sensitive to both the game and the players' usage, neh? The problem here is threefold - 1) that there is no single term, 2) that the (now two!) game terms are brutally misleading, and 3) that the chosen page title "refined coal" does necessarily refer to either "refined" nor "coal" - and all that should be made clearer, and avoid trying to use 4 terms with the word "coal" in them, including three that don't actually, technically refer only to coal. And all the more so since the in-game text doesn't go there.

If we direct both "coal fuel" and "refined coal" to a small explanation page, and then added a separate page to fully explain the concept of "fuel" (as the current page attempts, but without being a slave to the term "refined coal"), do you think that would cover it? Despite the confusion in the code, we can engineer a clear(er) understanding of what's going on for the new reader, which we don't have now.

Maybe something like this:

Refined coal and Coal fuel are both in-game terms for Fuel.  At a conventional (non-magma) smelter, 
cancellation the messages using these terms refer to the fact that there is no high-quality fuel available 
to fire the smelter.
However, due to confusion between the terms "refined coal", "coal fuel", "charcoal", "bituminous coal", 
and "coke", the term "fuel" is now more commonly seen and used, and you are now referred to that page.

Then, under "fuel" and using that term, each are explained clearly but without unnecessarily confusing terminology. If I were to do something along these lines and it's both clear and complete without being contradictory to the game terms, would you object? Because as is it's almost useless to newbies - we only understand it after we've played and figured it out ourselves, and that's not the point. --Albedo 10:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Good advice, all makes sense, thanks. It's up. --Albedo 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

metal table

Inspired by the sortable gem table, I've beaten the metal#List of metals into submission - mostly. How to make colors sortable eludes me. You did the work to achieve that on the gems - if you care to repeat your magic, or point me where to find out how to. --Albedo 07:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Completely by chance I stumbled on the solution to sorting the metal table - now fixed - explanation in my talk page.--Albedo 01:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Assorted armor articles

If you're not sure about something, please confirm it in talk pages rather than editing it into an article and leaving others to correct it. I suggest you read armor for a clearer understanding of the rules governing what clothes you can wear over others. VengefulDonut 02:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't make head nor tail of that article. It's a jumbled mess, and needs fixing. So either help fix it, or stop complaining. Although, yeah, I should have asked someone. Like you. What the heck are the rules about wearing items?!?--Zchris13 03:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

"Help fix it or stop complaining" you say. I actually don't have a problem with how the armor article is right now. The in-game system is wacky and convoluted. My grasp on it is far from complete, and several of the tags completely throw me for a loop. Armor really is your best bet. If that's too difficult for you, you're better off working on a different topic. I think common sense says that you need to know something yourself in order to teach others about it. VengefulDonut 04:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I get how it works. I don't get how that article works. Although I am a little fuzzy on some of the specifics, such as tunics vs. shirts. --Zchris13 04:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If you get how it works, why are high boots not better than low boots? :P VengefulDonut 04:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

you can't wear them with something, due to the way the coverage works. And they weigh a bunch more. Something to do with how much of the leg they cover.--Zchris13 04:51, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Maybe. I'm not sure, just something floating in the back of my head.

It's because they are completely identical except for their weight and material size. VengefulDonut 04:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

lies.--Zchris13 05:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

[ITEM_SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS]	[ITEM_SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW]
[NAME:high boot:high boots]]	[NAME:low boot:low boots]
[WEIGHT:20]	[WEIGHT:15]
[VALUE:15]	[VALUE:15]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]	[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[BLOCKPOWER:60]	[BLOCKPOWER:60]
[UPSTEP:1]	No corresponding tag
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]	[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[LAYER:OVER]	[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:100	[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:25]	[LAYER_SIZE:25]
[LAYER_PERMIT:15]	[LAYER_PERMIT:15]

See that place where there is no tag? That means that low boots do not extend to the lower leg. High boots do. That is why they are different.--Zchris13 05:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, good call. Hmm, armor doesn't even mention that kind of thing. VengefulDonut 13:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

"I get how it works..."

While I admit acknowledge your effort and enthusiasm, the content indicates otherwise. Too many factual and practical errours.--Albedo 05:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Which is why we all need to work on it. I haven't been here long enough to know the mechanics very well. I'm still practicing not dying to gobbos in my third seige.(first two are ok, third gets hard.)--Zchris13 17:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)