Difference between revisions of "v0.31 Talk:Weapon"

Revision as of 18:13, 23 August 2010

Template:L now seems to play a significant factor in determining a weapon's effectiveness. A weapon that is very light (made of Template:L, for instance) will not be as effective as a heavier one. This needs more research. -Moved discussion material to the discussion page Studoku 03:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately it is a great deal more complicated than just the weight of a weapon. If the weapon an edge(such as a sword or axe) then the shear values of the material used become important. On the other hand, mass seems to be much more important to blunt type weapons such as mauls and war hammers. But it isn't know exactly how any of this works. It is all very unbalanced right now anyway, partly because Toady intends to add item damage to the combat system in the "soon™". Some of the counter intuitive quirks that are observed are because of the incomplete physical modeling. Some are bugs, others are design decisions that seem to stem from compromises in other parts of DF. Explanations of how the weapon/armor/wound system work from Toady are needed to understand what is going on, though a broad understanding may be possible on the basis of empirical testing. Regardless, extensive empirical testing is necessary to establish and test balance issues. It is all very much still a work in progress, especially given the current rapid rate of bug fix roll outs. It might not be a bad idea to start by creating creature like format pages for each of the weapons and materials, sense they are all in the raws now. -PencilinHand 18:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I propose a table of weapons on this page. The list of weapons from the raws follows. --StrongAxe 16:28, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BLOWGUN]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TRAINING]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING]

TRAINING WEAPONS

The military system is bugged as hell right now, but given that, how are training weapons intended to work? It seems like dwarves treat training weapons exactly as any other weapon, and will only train with training weapons if manually equipped or part of their uniform. Is it possible to have dwarves train with wooden weapons and then make a quick switch to real ones in case of an attack without having to wait on the arsenal dwarf to sign off on the changes? -Slothen --99.96.100.228 19:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, it's simply incomplete. The only real function you could have for them now is to have separate training squads equipped with them. They seem rather irrelevant considering that the only training I've seen my dwarves do is individual combat drill.The Architect 02:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

MOODS & FOREIGN WEAPONS

I had a dwarf make a blow gun via a mood. Is this expected behaviour or a bug? Either way I think it should be noted that you can create foreign weapons via moods. EvilGrin 23:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Poison on ammunition/weapons

All the underground races wear only spears or blowguns. The blowgun darts poison the attacked creature. How? Cause they are poisoned. And the poison is on the BLOWDARTS! Just Vew them and look at the blowdarts. As far as I saw they have either cave spider venom or GIANT cave spider venom on them. So you can poison you weapons by dropping poison on them, but how? --Niggy 18:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Dwarves don't have that option. We can extract venom from phantom spiders and cave spiders, but we can't apply it to anything. See Extracts.

One handed or two-handed?

It would be helpful if it showed whether weapons were one-handed or two handed on the wiki. I looked in the raws and on each weapon there seems to be a two-handed tag with an accompanying number. I would assume that number is the minimum size at which a creature can wield the weapon one handed, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Also, I recall some talk in the forums about whether there is a bonus to wielding some weapons two-handed, stemming from a test wherein speardwarves without shields fared better than speardwarves with shields. I'm not sure how the weapon's one handed versus two-handed status would be shown, as it appears to vary based on the race you are playing, but if it can be shown without too much confusion, I feel it would be for the better. A section explaining one-handed versus two-handed weapon use would be useful, if only to have it officially unknown what the effects are. Monkeyfetus 21:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Mace V.S Hammer

They are both blunt weapons of same size, so what is the difference between the two?

Training with a warhammer increases the hammer skill, which is also used by marksdwarves when they run out of ammo and beat their enemies with their crossbows. If your weaponsmith has a preference for either weapon it makes sense to make that one. According to Template:L, warhammers are worth twice as much as maces. But whether there's any difference in combat between the two weapons, I don't think anyone can yet say. If there's a difference it should be discernable by testing in the arena. Bognor 07:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

The raws for the two weapons are as follows

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR] [NAME:war hammer:war hammers] [SIZE:400] [SKILL:HAMMER] [TWO_HANDED:37500] [MINIMUM_SIZE:32500] [MATERIAL_SIZE:3] [ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE] [NAME:mace:maces] [SIZE:800] [SKILL:MACE] [TWO_HANDED:37500] [MINIMUM_SIZE:32500] [MATERIAL_SIZE:3] [ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]

I remember hearing that the only difference in the initial DF2010 release was the smaller contact area of the warhammer, but it appears that the size of the mace has increased since then. Now, the mace has twice the size (and therefore, mass and weight) as well as contact area of a warhammer. The mace is heavier, and may slow your troops down slightly more, but it should deliver the same force per square inch (or whatever unit you wish to use), and do it over a larger area, which I 'think' would make it more deadly. I'm not an expert on Dwarf Fortress combat, so if you want more detail or more reliable answers you could check out the forums. Monkeyfetus 21:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 I'm not sure how the weapon's one handed versus two-handed status would be shown, as it appears to vary based on the race you are playing, but if it can be shown without too much confusion, I feel it would be for the better. A section explaining one-handed versus two-handed weapon use would be useful, if only to have it officially unknown what the effects are.
 [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
-: I don't have the data to contribute, but it would be helpful.  Further, when considering one and two-handed weapons, is there any data to suggest the assumption that bucklers are more effective than shields when used with two-handed weapons is at all accurate?  That's always been my hunch, but I've yet to try to confirm it with even the most rudimentary observation, much less science.  --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 19:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 == Mace V.S Hammer ==