v0.34 Talk:Armor

Layers

In different parts of the article, we have two different orderings of layers:

1. Under < Over < Armour < Cover
2. Under < Armour < Over < Cover

I'd assume the first is correct, but I've never played adventure mode, and I don't pay that close attention to see what my dwarves are wearing. If someone could confirm which order layers actually occur in, the incorrect line should be changed. --Timrem 02:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Bars

Since .34 some metal weapons/armour take more than one bar to forge. Would it be suitable for someone to add the costs to the respective tables?

From my own experience (smelting done in game without mods right now);

Weapons: 1 bar

Gauntlets: 1 bar (for a matching pair)

High Boot: 1 bar (for two)

Shield: 1 bar

Mail Shirt: 2 bars

Greaves: 2 bars

Breastplate: 3 bars

Others (namely low boots, leggings, caps, bucklers) unknown at the moment, but I can't imagine the less-covering counterparts taking more.

These values can probably be determined from the raws by someone more skilled than I, though i'm happy to experiment more to gather data.

"The number of bars needed to make a piece of metal armor is equal to the material size divided by 3."

It's covered already in the article. Thanks, though. --74.102.139.234 12:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me that most people who are looking at this wiki for some quick advice won't want to determine material size or divide by three. Might be a useful to write it out explicitly for us dolts. 174.1.230.63 04:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Partly because I agree with you, but mostly because I long for your affection, I've added the cost in bars to appropriate pieces of armor. I think that it's only fair that you begin returning my letters now. -- Vasiln 07:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Armor comparison

The armor page says that copper > iron > bronze > steel, but unless major changes have been made, I'm pretty sure bronze is worse than iron. Anyone confirm that bronze indeed outshines iron?

A short session of testing in the arena of equally-skilled, equally-armed dwarves, one squad in bronze armor and the other in iron armor, ended with all bronze-wearing dwarves alive, and all iron-wearing dwarves dead. The order indicated on the page seems correct. --Timrem 17:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Group tests with large control groups are not the best way to test materials, due to the outnumber snowball effect. I just did a 20-group test with 4vs4 per group, all competent with iron swords. It seems to be mostly a tie, with a slight leaning more major leaning* toward iron. It seems that both bronze and iron are near equal materials, with iron having a slight advantage due to its lighter weight. * I just tallied a few more tests that were in an unconsious-deflect deadlock and iron took the cake on all of them. 70% iron over bronze wins.--Acetech09 19:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. I've not really done any arena testing before, and I wasn't really trying that hard to test this. I threw together a 1v1 and a 5v5 is all, sounds like you know better what you're doing. --Timrem 21:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

K. I'm about to rework the armor comparison chart a tiny bit to better reflect defensive properties.

An experiment shows that candy is the worst metal armor against bolts. --Lcy03406 05:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Shaped headgear and armor limits

With the changes to caps and masks, some of the examples of calculating armor limits have become invalid. Perhaps some Urist McEditor more prone to adventuring than myself and more enlightened on the subject could provide new examples? Earthfiredrake 10:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I was going to make a post similar to yours, but I guess I'll just change the info myself. Caused me enough worry already.--173.3.16.92 22:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

• Someone's going to have to check my work though... I might just change the easiest parts.--173.3.16.92 22:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Foreign high boots

34.09 - I just discovered that my civ can not make high boots. In the equipment screen, it says (foreign) next to the high boot entry. I double checked by abandoning and choosing another civ to embark with. I found they had high boots on the embark list. I aborted and checked the first civ's embark and they didn't list high boots. --GoldenShadow 05:09, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't make high boots either in 34.11. Have not checked if others civ's can. Great Cthulhu 21:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

This was noted in the changelog of 34.09. Lothion--124.181.89.8 06:15, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Throat Protection

v 34.11

I am seeing combat logs showing throat strikes on goblins being deflected by their mail shirts. Has the coverage of the throat and possibly other facial areas been modified for better armor coverage. Possibly depending on the layer designation?

I believe mail shirts have always protected areas such as the throat. This is reflected in the UPSTEP value of mail shirts. Lothion--124.181.89.8 06:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Mail shirts vs Breastplates

In recent dwarven !SCIENCE!, mail shirts were shown to be consistently better at defending against bolts than plate armor which did nothing to stop bolts. Link here: [1]. Results were independantly verified with another study that occured at the same time. After reading through the results I think it is definately worth mentioning this on the page as I had been under the impression that breastplates are generally better.

One of the authors of the study actually states:

Given my results to date, I propose that the best equipment for dwarves might be helm, breastplate, mail shirt, mail leggings, gauntlets and low boots. I do not know how mail leggings would compare to greaves for melee combat, but they are clearly better (but still don't really do that much) against arrows, and are also much lighter. Also, presumably high boots are preferable, but not readily available in fortress mode.

However the breastplate is presumably for use in melee combat. --Lothion 06:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I've added a mention of the extent to which bolts (and whips) penetrate armor. Feel free to revise it as necessary. One of the !SCIEN!tists also posted some summaries at DF2012 Talk:Bolt. Emufarmers 21:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)