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v0.31 Talk:Make your own weapons
Awkward title?
I get that this is what the 40d article was called, but wouldn't 'Forging Guide' or something similar be better? The current one is awkwardly titled and uses improper grammar anyway (Making your own weapons would be proper). IMO redirecting this to a new Forging Guide page would be better, and with the new version out, right now is the most appropriate time to do so. --Retro 01:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not even sure of the necessity of this article. DF2010:Weapon would probably be a better place for it. Guides should only be made if there is sufficient information that it would clog up the main page on the subject, like bedroom designs. --Mikaka 01:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I vote we just redirect this to DF2010:Weapon for now, and put all the info there. --Eagle0600 01:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I do see the use of the article (mostly the old one) as a guide - see the 40d version of it for what I mean. If it were retitled, cleaned up, and adapted to include blacksmithing and armorsmithing I could definitely see its use as a more heavily-detailed 'forging guide.' The 'metalsmith's forge' page seems too much about the workshop than its purpose to put it there though. --Retro 01:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- Not "weapon". This should have a link from weapon.
- The need for this article was mainly for the newbie who wanted to save on those damn expensive (300?) axes, which is not as much of a consideration now. But it also walks them thru how to create weapons, which is a bit of a mystery to the new player. True, every subsection is redundant to some other article, but a new player would have to find and digest about 5 different articles to understand what is on this one page - starting build, ore, smelting, weapon, weaponsmith, maybe non-Dwarf's Guide to rock - yay.
- The title is awkward, agreed, but, sim to the Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock, it's not a "tier one" article, it's a specialty topic, narrowly focused to one purpose, and expanding on several indirectly associated tier-one concepts. The fact that axes are now less expensive (17 for a wood one!) doesn't mean that it's not useful to the new player. Reworking it to a "Forging Guide" is a great idea imo - better name, more widely applicable, and the current specific material can be a subsection. Take the basic concept and have (sub)subsections (or just a table) on chains, anvils, armor - every commonly needed metal item, w/ what is needed re raw materials and skill. Use "forge an axe" as a step-by-step example, and I think it's a winner. --Albedo 20:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- Cool beans. I'm interested in this, so I'll give it a shot sometime after the weekend, probably Monday. --Retro 20:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- Really, there still are savings. 17 points is a lot to pay for something made for 3 points. So, a Forging Guide is only for the forging aspect, and ignoring the roles of the carpenter. And that is still considered making your own weapons. Though, maybe this could be named something like "The non-dwarf's guide to weaponmaking" or even combined "The non-dwarf's guide to everything" for every guide in one.--Dree12 22:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- '...to everything' would be a monster of a page and incredibly unnavigable. Adding 'embark strategies' to the embark page would be nice, but the pros/cons of stuff and the math of it isn't quite the same - I'm talking about removing the 'embark' aspect of this page entirely and replacing it with a how-to-forge-everything-and-how-much guide and a quick table of material costs. I dunno, Albedo gets what I'm playing at. When I have a draft up it'll make more sense. --Retro 23:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- Really, there still are savings. 17 points is a lot to pay for something made for 3 points. So, a Forging Guide is only for the forging aspect, and ignoring the roles of the carpenter. And that is still considered making your own weapons. Though, maybe this could be named something like "The non-dwarf's guide to weaponmaking" or even combined "The non-dwarf's guide to everything" for every guide in one.--Dree12 22:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- Cool beans. I'm interested in this, so I'll give it a shot sometime after the weekend, probably Monday. --Retro 20:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I do see the use of the article (mostly the old one) as a guide - see the 40d version of it for what I mean. If it were retitled, cleaned up, and adapted to include blacksmithing and armorsmithing I could definitely see its use as a more heavily-detailed 'forging guide.' The 'metalsmith's forge' page seems too much about the workshop than its purpose to put it there though. --Retro 01:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the focus is changed from "bring this on embark" to "here's how you make forge stuff from scratch" (metal only, if all basic sub-types). Then, at the very bottom, can be a minor subsection about what to bring on embark to achieve the above w/ diff metals, sim to the "What to bring" subsection. (Also note that the "weapons grade" metals are now no longer the same sliding scale for weak/good/better/best weapons.)
Dree - there is already a "non-dwarf's guide to everything" - it can be found here.--Albedo 02:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Wagonite
Possibly a silly observation, but you can break your wagon down into three wood logs - for the truly economical, this could shave 9 points off the first builds (64 -> 54 for bronze and 84 -> 75 for steel) and less for the second builds. - Ancient History 16:47, 12 June 2010 (UTC)