Editing 40d Talk:Attribute

==Which Attribute?==

What determines which attribute you get when you gain an attribute? Is it random, does it follow a preset order, or does it depend on which skills you've been increasing? --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:32, 21 January 2008 (EST)
:It is random. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:09, 22 January 2008 (EST)
::hehe yes, my legendary clerk has max strength and agility, and is very tough. never done a days manual labour in his life... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:05, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
::: You try working in an office where the chairs, tables, doors, filing cabinets, etc are made out of rock :) Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the dwarves made their pens and even writing paper out of rock (and don't forget the menacing spikes and hanging rings of goblin bone). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 15:23, 20 December 2008 (EST)

== Do pre-assigned skill levels give attributes? ==

Let's say I'm just starting out and I bring along a Proficient Mason.  Will he start off with attribute bonuses?  How about if a <no-title> Mason immigrates?  Will he have any XP to start off his attribute gain?  [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 18:14, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:Yes and yes.  Further, I suspect invaders, diplomats, caravan guards, and the like all come with undisplayed skills that are the source of their attributes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:20, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Stat Maximum ==

Is 16 the maximum or is there really no limit?  My two most experienced miners have max in each category (ultra-mighty, superdwarvenly tough, perfectly agile), which is pretty unlikely if the max is 16.  Anyways, I'm just curious [[User:Greep|Greep]] 00:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
:The MAX is 16, but the max DISPLAYED is 5.  I had a few dwarves with 13ish strength and toughness, they got, at most, bruised from a hail of iron crossbolt fire from goblins.  You'll need some kind of viewer to see any stat gains after 5. --Gotthard 04:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::I have similar experiences - my champions are always ecstatic because they get really light wounds in sparring, recover almost immediately (making them happy for being able to rest, and for being rescued) and keep sparring. All they do is eat and spar, seriously.
::Still true? In 40d16 I have a champion with a 17 Agility, according to Dwarf Therapist. [[User:Jogar2|Jogar2]] 10:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't know if it was ever true. The article does say "Toady has stated that although there is no cap on attribute increases", after all, and the line under the table telling you how much XP you need for each level says "This presumably keeps going, following the formula:". That suggests that there is no cap that Toady himself has set. That would indicate to me that a cap would only exist due to computing limitations - e.g. level 255 (max value held in 1 byte) or 4,294,967,295 XP needed (max value held in 4 bytes) or something like that. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 19:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

By the way, the formula used is ludicrous. There's a much simpler one; In words, the first one is 2000, and each level is 500 more. In mathematical terms, Y = ((Y - 1) + 500) + 1500. Admittedly, a graphing calculator wouldn't be able to parse that, but a human can more easily than Y=1750X+250X2 --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 16:11, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

== Agility and Workshops ==

It's stated in the article that increased agility doesn't affect workshop tasks, though if I increase the raw speed of my dwarves (e.g. [SPEED:1]), then they are able to complete tasks at workshops almost instantaneously. I've also observed that, when training dwarfs in moodable skills, highly agile dwarves are able to complete their tasks far more quickly than a fresh migrant would be able to. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
:I always thought this, the same should be true with mining, although I also suspect strength has something to do with many jobs aswell, such as masonry, construction, smoothing and mining. I can't really test it though, since I'm on a mac and I can't see my framerate for comparisons, and the framerate seems very variable in my fort.--[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 20:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
::Mining speed at the very least is affected by both agility and strength, though agility certainly has the more noticeable benefit. Aside from the obvious benefit of not being significantly slowed down when carrying heavy rocks and stuff around, I'm not entirely sure whether strength affects much else except hauling. From my own observations, I don't believe construction is affected by stats at all; if it is, then it's not by much. I seem to recall that smoothing is affected by agility (but not by strength). I'm afraid I can't comment on the workshop stuff, however --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 19:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

== Agility speedups ==
Why do the agility numbers INCREASE, rather than decrease, for more agile? Speeds are reported by how long it takes to do something, or so it seems, so why is this not reflected in the numbers?

This is explained in the [[speed]] article. [[Special:Contributions/70.138.29.184|70.138.29.184]] 22:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== iv done a few tests about whit attributes ==

If you cheat your stats up to abyssmal (500+++ over the superdwarven)
ie At abyssmal strenght, lifting anything doesnt seem to slow the dwarfs down.
whiout abyssmal strenght and instead have the same in agility + 0 in speed on dwarfs, doesnt seem to make them faster than 0 speed default, however when lifting heavy objects it didnt seem to matter much regardless of speed they seem to slowly carrywalk the object to destination, it seems completely dependant on strength if they can use any speed, seeing abyssmal strenght and agi then they went superfast again whit lifting heavy stones and megabeasts :)

Basicly you can think of it like this, strenght is not important til they start lifting very heavy stones or if you manage to slay a megabeast or something silly like that, strenght wont matter, carrying barrles of whatever and food or other common objects doesnt seem to make much or if any impact on the carry speed, whit 0 speed the zoom around anyway, so just haveing high agility is more important than high strenght. (for other purposes than combat that is, combatwise you wana have strenght on melee characters, noteably fun whit abyssmal strenght and trow a megabeast so it explodes in pices).

Allso worringly, if your playing a cheat character, it doesnt seem to matter even if you set your strenght so high that the abyssmal tag disappears, if you rapidly attack same monster at 0 speed whit all that stat (whiout killing it, like attacking a bronze colossus whit fists) then after youv done about 1000+ hits on it, your stats seems to drop like crazy, going from above abyssmal(insanestat) all the way down to weak or low strenght, agility seems to follow after a while too and stamina and all the other stat affected.

I cant seem to draw any direct connections to anything, i can only guess its like a failsafe like if you abuse a stat? aka punching same target for over 1000+ turns (for you in 0 speed where enemy doesnt get to retaliate, and would normaly fatigue you or tire you out, (noteably since your cheating you got no eat drink or exhaust so you dont get tierd) so im guessing stats drops when you abuse one stat continusly?

Or and it doesnt seem to matter what attribute you abuse, like you can use just wrestling and choke sombody (unchokeable monsterhere), and still the stats drop.

If your not cheating and does the same, the stats seems to increase (very slowly) also you have to stop for breaks now and then due the character getting tierd, exhausted, hungry thirsty and so on, hence there is probebly the check abuse a stat, regardless or not if the character can get tierd or exhausted or something.

In anycase bottomline, from normal strenght to infinity theres barely difference in common dwarf tasks, unless moveing heavy rocks\combat ect (not that often and agility still affects it but get slowed more heavely (but is still faster) :P) than haveing the high strenght.

ill continue my testing, as i said might be wrong about the strenght abuse\ loss of stat, like theres a top integer where 65535 or something makes the stat start from scratch then appear like low again (and then inventory weight slows down you even tought you have 0 speed whit abyssmal agility), heck in the dwarf i got currently my speed is only 560, whit abyssmal, just because my strenght is below normal hence inventory slows him down of just what hes wearing :P low strenght is apparently realy REALY low :P, my character has a iron sword and then rest giant spider silk cloths (not that heavy).
Also i cant seem to get my strenght up to normal levels (normal for uncheated characters) after its been dropped to lowest.
The only workaround seems to be useing weapons that kills oponent whiout haveing to spam 1000 moves because you wanted a melee fistfighter character, seeing whit all abyssmal stats (agility, dodgeing, armor so on) a arrow to the knee joke is actualy fatal to your character :P
I dont know if theres luck factors when enemy attacks you but apparently whit over unreal impossible super stats, you can still get killed so many times so often :P 

Dragon fire = bane of my first test cheat character where i was doing some quests for a lord.
Character got dragon burnt, because i let it fire. (whit 0 speed dragons doesnt seem to get more than a turn, so i sat down to check if it could hurt me.)

Jumping off anything over 1 tile has a possibility of anything from a scratch to a death, especialy if you modifyed your weight on your dwarf to superbeast weight., no stat seems to affect beeing pushed off edges and drop down 2+ tiles) especialy annoying in the new castles where they have those rooms where you can fall down, and whit all abyssmal stats, targets can still push you around if you dont set your weight to megabeast weight :P, ditto if you forget to remove dodge by moveing away, best to have stand ground on.
.
No breathing makes you able to avoid drowning, and suffication, but if you didnt remove that one, drowning is a way to go :P(noteably weight doesnt seem to affect that you would normaly drop to the bottom of the ocean when your a small object that weights more than a mountain :P funny that, must be a abyssmaly good swimmer (actualy swim stat doesnt matter, just a joke :P)

AND all abyssmal doesnt save you from beeing attacked while sleeping (even whit the nosleep, because your just trying to pass time todaylight :P)
they will kill you :P, i mean ANY stat doesnt matter, abyssmal or not, boogiemen = deadlyest foe there is.

THAT reminds me, sometimes whit all the abyssmal stats iv been talking about, sometimes i meet 1 enemy (different types, at different locations) that seems to be able to dodge, or and i dont seem to be able to hit no matter what, and that said enemy is able to hurt me like im not cheating ? i dont know if some enemys are based on player character stats ie copying them? mirror? or gets stats based on player characters stats? either way the only way to combat those were to trow stuff at them. (abyssmal trowing a dragon at it doesnt hurt more than trowing a snowball) wich leads me to beleve strenght is only a factor in melee combat and trowing misc objects is a universal skill wich is better than archery, allways reliable, while archery can get you killed whit abyssmal 0 speed :P (also noted that archery is realy annoying seeing restacking arrows = realy difficult task, you probebly end up salvageing enemy (DIFFERENT) arrow types) as main way of getting arrows, and i cant tell the difference from a adamantine arrow to a wooden arrow\bone. agility or strenght doesnt seems to affect much exept the faster you are the faster you can fire a arrow hence less moves for the enemy, but if a enemy gets time to hit you or slow you down or anything your fucked :P surviveing in dwarf fortress is usualy pointless, onec you lose your speed or you abused strenght or something like that so the stats falls below silly weak your not gona continue whit that character :P

Oh yea and about the attributes, exept strenght agility, i cant seem to make a difference in normal gameplay whit any of the other stats on lowest or highest, whit abyssmal memory, the areas you revisit are usualy black again so gota reexplore a castle you were just in ect ect,  none of the attributes seems to work like the skills, like higher swordskill = more reliable hit ratio, higher strenght is not more reliable damage output exept when trowing :P (only need to be strong enough or fighting a lighter target), and if you cant trow the target just get a realy light object and trow at said target.
Abyssmal strenght swinging sword whit 0 swordskill = same as low strenght doing the same, exept when puching or kicking you sometimes push the target back just by force, but unless targets hits something while beeing pushed back by force, target does not take more damage (hence trowing is dealyer), and even if you push a target back by hitting it unarmed, it doesnt seem to take as much damage as dropping 1 too many floors down, aka target rarely or never got a crippled location, unless allready gotten a crippled arm from getting hit in it.
 
abyssmal strenght + abyssmal weight(on you) + warhammer(silver) = warhammer does the same damage as if you were to have just enough strenght to not lose speed when holding warhammer(silver) and smacking a target. 
also abyssmal hammer skill = you can hit impossible locations like they were easy, wich makes killing easy, but as case is, if you hit sombody in a easy leg on normal skill 5-10, then you can hit the head normaly and you can kill just as fast (of corse not as reliable) but please note that abyssmal strenght or your own weight behind the hammer(whiout the hammer haveing said weight(were talking silver normal hammer)), you wont do more damage :P even tought realisticly you weight more, you have more strenght then hence should be able to hit whit the hammer harder aka your strenght * hammer weight (+ possibly your weight(just so you dont just lift yourself up when hitting something heavyer :P, or and heavy enough that it would count as a penetration hit :P)) then you should be hitting so targets explode :P, but of corse not the case.

Dwarf fortress is probebly built around normal values, so beeing a dragon example the only benafits is the skin is harder, weight more so cant push it, and dragon has deadly claws or breath of fire.

Or like the bronze colossus, hard to kill due no nerves, breathing ect doesnt need lungs, and so on.

The fastest speed you can get in the game normaly on pesant level is whit elf, they have lower stats in general exept agility, wich makes them the best trow rock or stick or beetle :P hence the deadlyest character in game!, sure a adamantine axe on a dwarf, but who gets that whiout cheating anyway :P
But elfs have their problem when getting food normaly :P

In anycase ill stop writeing now :P
Strenght = usefull to some point,
Agility = infinite usefull (also affects how fast you do stuff in normal games(carry, work, crafting ect), while strenght only normalizes the speed when carrying heavy)