Editing 40d Talk:Magma-safe

How much of this has been verified? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:16, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I think it's all based on inference from raw files. I have been meaning to test bauxite or get someone else to do it, but haven't run into any or been very convincing [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:22, 20 November 2007 (EST)

::I haven't run into any Bauxite either, and I was on hunt for it.  After starting fortresses on 20+ map squares with Sediment layers, revealing it then exporting images of the layers to analyze...I haven't seen a single Bauxite deposit.  Makes me wonder if it's a bug, or if I'm that unlucky.  My theory is that Bauxite mechanisms won't melt under magma. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 12:53, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:::I had the same idea :)   [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:40, 20 November 2007 (EST)

::::Man I hope it's true.  Bump that number up to 35 regions with Sediment layers and no Bauxite.  Beginning to think it's a bug.  --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:29, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:::::Isn't the easiest way to test this either to make some critter drop bauxite, or mod a stone you have to being the same temperature rating and see if that survives. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:51, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::::::Is it possible to order bauxite mechanisms from the caravan? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:44, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::::::: Actually, the easiest way was for me to edit the raw and put bauxite in every layer in the game.  Fired up the game, created a new world, found a magma vent and bam I was in business.  The verdict?  It's magma-safe.  Both Bauxite floodgates and bauxite mechanisms resist the magma, and the bauxite rocks that I left on the floor were unharmed by the magma flow.  Bauxite: confirmed.  With the iron and steel confirmation, I would believe that anything given the melting point stat above magma's temperature is magma safe.  Now, if we can just get Toady to make magma replenish, we could make some amazing magma traps with machines made of iron/steel and bauxite!    --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 15:01, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Iron is definitly magma safe. I've repeatedly flooded goblins with magma, and only their iron equipment remained. Iron floodgates are not destroyed from magma either ( although their mechanisms are. ) Iron screw pumps can pump magma with no problem. IRON IS A OK.--[[User:GauHelldragon|GauHelldragon]] 05:21, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:But you can't make mechanisms out of it, which is what we're trying to do. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:14, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::There's still the question of whether you can make a magma forge/furnace using a platinum bar (I doubt it).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:11, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Raw adamantine is magma-safe.  I know we all ''knew'' that, but I've tested it.  In particular, I built mechanisms out of raw adamantine and tested them on a raw adamantine floodgate.  All the loose stone has since melted, but the gate continues to open and close just fine.  And while raw adamantine is rare and valuable, at least it's less rare than bauxite....  [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 21:00, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:Kinda sad when you feel more accomplishment from finding Bauxite than finding Adamantine.  --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:50, 22 November 2007 (EST)

:: well i added a simple solition to this problem, i've added a reaction which makes bauxite from iron and fuel so you can use iron for magma safe mechanisms --[[User:Slimtim|Slimtim]] 08:01, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:: Weird. I have lots of bauxite on my very first map with magma. The weird thing is, I don't recall whether it's in the sedimentary layer or not. And no, I haven't modded my game at all. But yeah, Bauxite is very magma-proof. There's a bunch of it sitting in a room because my dwarves are lazy. (Then again, I think storing 1500 stones takes alot of work and space.) and the magma made it into that room and all the bauxite is sitting there unconcerned.

::I believe Bauxite isn't sedimentary because my map has only one sedimentary layer and I've found bauxite in more than one layer, iirc. Will check and confirm. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:35, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:::Checked. Bauxite is in a layer with Chert, Chert is Sedimentary, so Bauxite is as well. My bad. In any case, I still have alot of it. *shrug* --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:52, 9 January 2008 (EST)

What about mechanisms made of some iron ore? Gonna check it--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:00, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:Woo... Only stones, which have any MELTING_POINT in MATGLOSS are bauxite, raw adamantine (knew that already) and all, which can be ignited, instead of melting... No Magnetite mechanism can stand the heat of magma... :'(

Nickel is cheapest magma-safe material if you can't get bauxite. I bring at least one bar of it when I'm embarking at volcanic area. Easiest way to get bauxite is to bring it when embarking or to request it from caravan (both options are available only sometimes). Oh, and why has steel got higher melting point than iron? Iron should be ~1538°C. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 09:03, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

==Request for Example of Use==
Are there any maps on the DFMA that bauxite mechanisms are used in? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:23, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:Would this help?[http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-1691-echoink] It's a movie of a magma pumping system to get magma over a river. Ends up showing a REAL nasty bug as well. I believe the related fort has several maps up, both with and without the bug in effect. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:19, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I'm a pretty new player and what I could use here is some advice on how to get my dwarves to pick specific types of stone to make mechanisms out of. My fort's in a region with magma but no apparent sources of bauxite, so I ordered some from the caravan and next year it arrived as promised. Now I've got a handful of precious bauxite boulders sitting in my vast storehouse of andesite and microcline and since it's never mattered until now what stone my dwarves worked with I'm not sure what's the best way to sort this out. Last thing I want is for it to wind up turned into useless bauxite baubles. I figure I'll shut down all my stone processing facilities, forbid every non-bauxite stockpile I can find, and then tell my mechanics to make mechanisms until the bauxite's all gone. Is there a more efficient way? [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 06:34, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

:You can make a bauxite-only stockpile (and forbid bauxite from all other stone stockpiles -- see {{K|q}} {{K|s}} on a stockpile) next to the mechanic workshops and distant (in terms of coordinates) from other stone-using workshops, though this isn't a guarantee. You could also lock the mechanics in with the bauxite ({{K|q}} {{K|f}} on a door), but remember to let them out before they starve. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 08:43, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Can artifacts burn or melt too? I just got a artifact goblin bone floodgate (How is that even possible?).--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 12:48, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
 How much of this has been verified? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:16, 20 November 2007 (EST)
 :I think it's all based on inference from raw files. I have been meaning to test bauxite or get someone else to do it, but haven't run into any or been very convincing [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:22, 20 November 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 39: / Line 35: @@
 Nickel is cheapest magma-safe material if you can't get bauxite. I bring at least one bar of it when I'm embarking at volcanic area. Easiest way to get bauxite is to bring it when embarking or to request it from caravan (both options are available only sometimes). Oh, and why has steel got higher melting point than iron? Iron should be ~1538°C. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 09:03, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
-Is glass really magma-safe? I have dumped green glass objects into magma only to have them disappear without a trace, leaving absolutely nothing behind. Does it work different for floodgates and things? [[User:Soadreqm|Soadreqm]] 17:53, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
-:No. Glass can be used to make magma buildings, and constructions of any type including glass are utterly invulnerable to any and all forces except Remove Construction, but lava will melt any glass items it can get into the same square as, leaving nothing behind. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:05, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
 ==Request for Example of Use==
@@ Line 50: / Line 43: @@
 :You can make a bauxite-only stockpile (and forbid bauxite from all other stone stockpiles -- see {{K|q}} {{K|s}} on a stockpile) next to the mechanic workshops and distant (in terms of coordinates) from other stone-using workshops, though this isn't a guarantee. You could also lock the mechanics in with the bauxite ({{K|q}} {{K|f}} on a door), but remember to let them out before they starve. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 08:43, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
-:Just use the fact that stoneworkers always look for the closest stone (note: z-axis does not count!). If the mason or whatever has just eaten, he might pick a stone not too far away from the lunch room, though, so just build the bauxite pile + mechanics workshop far off where you are sure your mason will never come. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 04:40, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
-::Thanks, that'll simplify things greatly. My existing mechanics shop doesn't have room very close to it where I could squeeze in another storeroom, but bauxite mechanisms are important enough that I could build a workshop in a remote location just for this purpose. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 21:37, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
-:::As a clarification to a point that Qwertyu only touched on, If a stockpile is above or below the workshop, it will still be considered just as far as anything on the same level, no matter the number of levels up or down the stockpile is. E.g. you can have 3x3 piles above and below the workshop, and appropriate items in those piles will always be taken first. (atleast, that's true as far as anything I've seen/tested.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:55, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
-== verify temperatures? ==
-In my raws, iron's melting point is 12768 on the DF temperature scale. Shouldn't this equal 2800 degrees Fahrenheit? I think there's some inaccurate math on this page, but I'm not editing it myself just now in case there's something I don't know. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 06:43, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
-:Could you share the process that led you to these results? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:49, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
-::[[Temperature_scale]] states the following:
-::[DF scale] = [FAHRENHEIT] + 9968
-::[DF scale] = [CELSIUS]*9/5 + 10000
-::metgloss_metal.txt gives me [MELTING_POINT:12768] for iron, and [[Magma-safe materials]] lists it as 2680°F, but:
-::2680°F + 9968 = 12648°DF, not 12768. The problem here seems obvious, and going by the raws, the melting point is in fact 2800°F.
-::Also, for nickel: [MELTING_POINT:12619]. This is 2651°F, but [[Magma-safe materials]] lists the melting point as 2600°F.
-::Is this article possibly using old data? I'm using the latest version of DF here as of this posting. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 20:55, 5 July 2008 (EDT)
-:::I'm guessing the info in the article was either outdated or just plain wrong - it has now been corrected, along with the '''actual''' temperature of magma. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
-== constructed walls safe? ==
-The article implied that built walls were not safe from melting, but I recall a game where I used several constructed [[alunite]] walls to surround floodgates, and the walls did not melt, even after quite a while.  Is alunite itself magma-safe, or are all constructed walls impervious to melting?
-[[User:Lichenousd|Lichenousd]] 17:36, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
-:I am not sure where the article implies that, at least I didn't notice it. However to answer your question items only melt when the magma is in a square, adjacent tiles (such as walls) only get the 'warm wall' level of heat which isn't enough to melt most things (ice will). --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:16, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
-== Obsidian ==
-Idle curiousity; is obsidian magma-safe? I would have to assume so - since pools, pipes and such are surrounded by it - otherwise it would go on a rampage of destruction, and pools would melt their way off the bottom map, unless they're surrounded by special magma-proof obsidian. I'll try mining a bit of it out from around the pool (carefully) in my current game and trying a few things, but there's a magma man lurking who I don't want to disturb. --[[User:Arcalane|Arcalane]] 04:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-:Aaaaaand testing done. Obsidian is magma-proof. There you have it, folks! I tested it by creating a small chamber off my pool using an obsidian floodgate and obsidian mechanisms. The floodgate was unharmed, a backing wall of rough obsidian was not destroyed, and the floodgate reclosed when ordered. --[[User:Arcalane|Arcalane]] 04:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-::Leave it open a bit longer. The obsidian mechanism will melt. Also, walls dont melt no matter the material. Obsidian is not magma safe. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-::You may be amused to learn that at one point someone was trying to convince me that wood was magma-safe because wooden walls dont melt. :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::Arc - In this case, as mentioned, um... yeah, not so much.  ~Any~ stone can act as a ''wall'' for magma - but as a mechanism, it's a different story.  In the future, leave your comment up more than 15 minutes before changing a basic, accepted fact of an article.  Others may (well) want to comment, and - more importantly - unless it can be reproduced, it's not acceptable as fact. (Also, in this case, it's a well-explored part of the game code.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::Can't you check for magma safety by referring to the melting/boiling temperature in the matgloss list? That would unarguably clarify which material is magma-safe and which isn't. --[[User:Sz|Sz]] 20:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::Definitely not magma-safe. I naively assumed such also, being new at the game. I used an obsidian block in a screw pump immersed in magma. It melted after a minute, leaving the forges high and dry.[[Special:Contributions/68.197.174.59|68.197.174.59]] 05:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
-:::::Just checked. Alunite is also not magma-safe. I would've thought it was.
-=== Making Obsidian Magma-Safe ===
-I looked at the materials list for the stone, but Bauxite and Obsidian seem to be in two entirely different genres. I was afraid to put the melting/boiling tags under Obsidian for fear of breaking something. If this is possible, could someone tell me how to do it? Wikipedia says that Magma's highest average point of heat is 1600 °C, whilst glass (obsidian being considered class) melts at 2300 °C. This makes it more than magma-safe. I think this is an oversight that will be reprimanded in the future. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 08:35, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
-:Changing Obsidian's melting/boiling point won't break anything - however, from a logical standpoint, since obsidian is nothing more than (rapidly) cooled magma, it doesn't make sense that magma would be subsequently unable to remelt it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
-::Alternately, since the magma vent is surrounded with obsidian which contains the magma, it might be reasonable to assume that the magma flowing through your fortress and that at the side of the vent doesn't QUITE have the ENTIRE furious heat of the mountain's heart behind it, and so obsidian should survive just fine. But then, I've started applying real world logic to DF, and when you do that, !!dwarf chunk!!s everywhere. [[Special:Contributions/68.94.178.165|68.94.178.165]] 12:06, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
-== Glass ==
-Looking through a disassembly of version 0.23.130.23a, I found that all types of glass had a melting point of 13600, a boiling point of 16000, and a specific heat of 700. If this is still true in 40d and possibly 0.31 (which it very likely is), that might be sufficient proof that glass is magma-safe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:02, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
-:A further check against a disassembly of 40d reveals that glass's properties haven't changed. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:02, 11 August 2010 (UTC)