Editing 40d Talk:Metal industry

For now, how about we redirect this page to metalsmith forge?  --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 04:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think a lot of what is at metalsmith forge really belongs here. I am trying to sort something out similar to [[clothing industry]]; I will have a good look at what is in that page vs what is at [[Clothier's shop]] and do something much the same for this page and [[metalsmith's forge]].[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

::G has it right - there are several other "X Industry" type pages, this should be roughly modeled on those. We're trying to move away from having pages do double duty simply because we have no better place to put the info - there's enough info that can go into this that it will fill its own article. I also think that graphic could get reworked and cleaned up, made more clear and legible, and complete - like adding flux for one, and the 4 fuel options, and perhaps re-ordering (alphabetizing?) the materials at the top.  --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I have noticed that "power" pretty much refers to wind or water power, not "heat energy" so there is a section here that needs re-titling; the metal industry needs '''heat energy''' either from wood, "coal" (various types) or magma. [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== One term to rule them all, one term to bind them... ==

 replaced ("fuel") with refined coal - which is what is needed at a magma smelter. 
 The event cancel message says "Needs refined coal"
Well, the cancel message says that.  However, if you try to queue up a task and have no fuel, you get the message "Must have '''coal fuel'''". (See [[Refined_coal#In-game_usage]]).  And now your find in stockpiles - '''coal'''.  Let's face it - this ''sucks''.  We have 6 terms that refer to one in-game material - '''coal fuel, refined coal, coal, charcoal, coke''', and the out-of-game term "'''fuel'''" (and that doesn't count '''bituminous coal''', which adds to the headache).  Personally, I like "fuel" because it is clear, distinct, generic, and non-confusing for a newbie. If they hit the link, they go to the [[Refined coal]] page, and dive into the confusion and get over it like we all had to.<br />
I'd like to see "fuel" get used consistently unless referring to a specific in-game context.  (I'd ''rather'' use in-game terms exclusively - but there are 5 1/2 of them!) If we use 1 in-game term over another, that will just create newbie confusion - it certainly did for me when I started out. I expressed these thoughts when I re-wrote the Refined Coal article after consulting with several wiki vets. [[Talk:Refined_coal#Rewrite_-_.26_.22fuel.22]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:all-right, having said all that.
:Can you now address the contradictions? It says "Magma versions only require an open floor below them". Try making iron without "refined coal". YOU CAN'T. But it isn't there as a fuel, it is there to react with the oxygen in the ferrous oxide, make CO2 and leave behind iron.

:Honestly: the wiki won't make sense on this issue till toady gets rid of in-game contradictory terminology. I'm sure it's "on the list".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::Can I address them? As you say, not until Toady does.  "Carbon-based reaction component"? "High-carbon-content multi-purpose material"?  Yet another unsatisfactory term?  We've been dealt 6 bad cards, and ''have'' to play one of them.  In the main article, "fuel" was the one I chose to act as the umbrella term, the least of the evils imo.  And while "fuel" is not being "burnt" in the steel-related reactions, the substance is identical - and ~is~ the default term commonly used on the forums.  That's where I learned it, that's what's used, not any of the more complex/confusing ones.  I use "starter fluid" to clean my carburetor - not trying to start the car, but it's still called starting fluid, not "carburetor cleaner" (unless bought as that, then you pay twice as much!) Same with "nail polish remover" and "acetone" - and we've got a similar situation here. The fact that we're doing it consciously rather than by social linguistic evolution just makes it feel more awkward.  (And I guess that's why I felt it needed more than a throw-away comment.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 ::Can I address them? As you say, not until Toady does.  "Carbon-based reaction component"? "High-carbon-content multi-purpose material"?  Yet another unsatisfactory term?  We've been dealt 6 bad cards, and ''have'' to play one of them.  In the main article, "fuel" was the one I chose to act as the umbrella term, the least of the evils imo.  And while "fuel" is not being "burnt" in the steel-related reactions, the substance is identical - and ~is~ the default term commonly used on the forums.  That's where I learned it, that's what's used, not any of the more complex/confusing ones.  I use "starter fluid" to clean my carburetor - not trying to start the car, but it's still called starting fluid, not "carburetor cleaner" (unless bought as that, then you pay twice as much!) Same with "nail polish remover" and "acetone" - and we've got a similar situation here. The fact that we're doing it consciously rather than by social linguistic evolution just makes it feel more awkward.  (And I guess that's why I felt it needed more than a throw-away comment.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
-: Not to clear up the confusion at all, but in the 2D wiki it was "coal bars". You refined them from coal ore, keeping the ore->bars rule. "Coke" was the real-world term. It is purified carbon, in the end. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
-::<''beats head on desk, gibbering and laughing alternately''>--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:26, 14 June 2009 (UTC)