Editing 40d Talk:Room

"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone.  Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations: 
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one?  It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong.  I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday.  I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep.  The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification.  My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room.  --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)  

:: I'm also looking at this.  Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms.  I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects.  Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand.  I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:<span style="color:#009900;">000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles]   if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number</span>

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well.  --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble.  It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to?  For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows.  So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable"  border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" | &nbsp;
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="150px" | layer-forming stone, soil
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | all other type of stone, ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls  but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in this category too.
* Fully open. Room is not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. The main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' multiplied by modifier according to room level of openness.

{| class="wikitable"  border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully enclosed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add value to the room even if the wall tiles they are on are not part of the room. It's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is impossible to tell exact room value for them.

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

:Wow, great job on figuring out these numbers. Now i only hope that you can replace/update the stuff on the [[Room]] page. Also i noticed that nowhere on the page is mentioned were you can see the room value. I suppose the room value is equal to the rent, or how did you get these values? --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 13:35, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks! Yes, I assumed that room value is the same as rent. I thought of checking stats for created / displayed value, but it's hardly possible with already running big fortress. As of updating, I hoped to get some review/response first. Till today it was just a huge bunch of raw data, so I may use some input on style, organisation and missing parts here. Or should I just copy it there and let it live? Current section on calculating room value is really outdated anyway... --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 14:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult.  Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door.  However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile.  So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal.  However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on?  Do they still have a direction?  [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall.  At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality.  I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at: 
:::When my [[hauler|rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value.  I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor.  I re-smoothed and re-engraved it.  [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right.  If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

== Artifact Furniture ==

There needs to be an article or section which lists all artifact furniture types that can raise room value. For example, placing an artifact animal trap in a room will not raise the room's value, but placing an artifact floor grate will.

Artifact furniture that raises room value:
Chest
Door
Cabinet
Floor Grate

Artifact furniture that does not raise room value:
Animal Trap
etc{{unsigned|208.81.12.34}}
:Agreed - so get on it. (And please sign your posts - yes, even if "anonymous" IP only.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Smoothing walls==
 "Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
@@ Line 6: / Line 5: @@
 ::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
-==room value==
 Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)