Editing 40d Talk:Weapon

Are the bows and blowguns melee or ranged? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

:Both. When they run out of ammo the dwarves will beat their enemies to death with their bows. The listed damage is for when that happens. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)

----

What about damage done by artifact weapons? Is it x2 like masterwork items?

:The exact damage bonus granted by artifact weapons is unknown, though it's quite likely much higher than a masterwork, if the value is any indicator. It's difficult to determine the exact bonus, as it's not in the raws, Toady hasn't told us, and it's very difficult to gauge exactly how much damage a weapon is dealing due to how little is known about the combat calculations in general. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 07:31, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Conflicting Info? ==

Earlier on, we say that dwarves can't wield bows because they are too big. Down in the tables, the bow is listed as two handed and not unwieldable. Need to correct one or the other (I'm too lazy to verify that in the current version bows are still unwieldable.) --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 06:20, 28 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, a bow is two handed and unwieldable to dwarves, do you mean in adventure mode with humans/elves? I think most of this data is fortress mode specific. --Gotthard 18:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::I didn't write the article, so I don't know it's original intention, however there are other weapons that can be wielded 2 handed by humans and others in adventure mode, but are listed as unweildable by dwarves. Need to choose to make the table fortress specific, adventure mode specific, or add another col and make it specific to both. As it stands now, it doesn't make sense. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 18:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:::I'm almost certain this is dwarf specific, because I had some goblin axemen siege my base, and one of them was wielding a great axe in one hand, and a shield (not even a *buckler*) in the other hand. I think I saw the same thing with a halberd, but a pike was multigrasped. Looks like goblins have a lot more options than our poor dwarves. --Gotthard 12:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)

== Pike ==

I been able to wield a bronze pike with an adventurer in 23a and it was quite deadly. This need to be verified. Maybe there is a strength requirement? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:43, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== Whips and scourges ==

So, I'm guessing that you can't assign dwarves to use whips and scourges unless you've traded for one, right? And on the article for [[Scourge]] it says it's deadlier than a whip (which currently has no page)... Does that mean scourges are better in every way? What's worse? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:03, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:Did you actually read the tables? It does 10 more damage, and is the same in everything else. Dwarves can't become lashers. There are no lasher option in the military settings... --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 14:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)

I have a complaint... Reading this wiki gave me the impression that whips and scourges were weak weapons and that it would require several for them to be noticeable. So it was that I came upon the idea of using a small number of scavenged and traded whips and scourges in weapon traps at the extremity of my fortress to weaken incoming attackers and to slow retreaters, hoping that if they got lucky and killed one it would probably bleed to death after safely leaving the trap. What I did not expect was rivers of blood, corpses piled 4 deep and exploding goblins. While I missed the event it would appear that a head travelled up one Z-level, west 8 X-levels and north 10 Y-levels, whilst a lower body travelled up 2 Z-levels, west 6 X-levels and south 2 Y-levels. I can only assume that they collapsed from the pain and were pulled into the mechanism...

My haulers are demanding an apology for the mess they need to clean up, perhaps a note could be made indicating that whips can be effective(and messy) despite their low damage values...

It is this sort of thing that makes me glad that the thoughts "horrified by an unfathomable scene of carnage" and "Saw something unnatural happen to a fellow living creature" have not yet been implemented...
[[User:RAM|RAM]] 04:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:How many did you put in the traps?  Even crappy weapons like whips will obliterate an enemy when you have a bunch of them all hitting simultaneously. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::Odd, I could have sworn that I liked to a movie of me examining the area, it is 3 1-deep rows of traps in a 3-wide corridor, the first row each have 1 low-quality bronze whip, second row each have 1 no-quality iron scourge and the third row each have 1 iron and 1 bismuth bronze whip, with one trap having an additional bronze whip. The mechanisms are good quality but it doesn't really seem to be alot to me, but I am new to DF...

::Here [http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1170-scarywhips] is the movie, I must say that this is very effective for stopping sieges, my goblins are unmodified, and they don't seem to have any trolls or beak dogs, but(if I recall correctly) in a recent siege this setup left me with 23 goblin corpses(and about 25 body parts) and only 3 traps clogged, with no goblins reaching any other defences(I think some made it through but ran back because of injuries and goblins dying behind them), funnily enough it was the single weapon traps that did most of the clogging...[[User:RAM|RAM]] 14:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

:::Hrm.  Most of the goblins are unarmored wrestlers, and most of the rest are poorly-armored archers.  By the time they got to the third row, they had taken multiple hits from gore-damage weapons (and one of the third row of traps had some really nasty ones in it).  Whips and scourges don't do a lot of damage, but they do cause pain and bleeding.  That doesn't matter too terribly much against heavily-armored soldiers who can shrug off a couple blows, but it doesn't take many hits like that to make a werestler bleed to death.  And if the traps weren't clogging up much, most of the goblins would've taken a lot of hits, which with gore damage would really add up.<BR>I also see that several goblins made it to the stonefall traps.  If it took that long to break them, then the odds are good that many made it past the traps, broke, and ran back across the traps for another go.  With that many hits, even whips and scourges can overwhelm a metal-armored soldier.<BR>Long story short, it was pretty much an absolute best-case scenario for whips and scourges, making lots of attacks against poorly-armored targets ;) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:14, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

== Unorthodox weapons ==

Is there any information on unorthodox weapons such as coins and loincloths? For instance, are the material and crafting value taken into account, and what is the base damage of the item? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)

:"Unortodox" weapons are not really weapons. However, since ''absolutly anything thrown is deadly in the curren fight code'', a lot of people use about anything in adventure mode. This is how coins became popular as a throwing weapon. Part because it's as deadly as anything else and very light which mean you can carry a lot around, part because it is a weapon used in other ascii or rogue like games. You could throw butterfly corpses and mud around and it would be just as deadly as coins. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:52, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Great axe ==

I'm not saying dwarves can wear it, but the dead goblin over there wore one, and even a shield too..if I can get 5 minutes of peace from this annoying little buggers i will try to let one of my dwarves wear it..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:40, 3 March 2008 (EST)

:You're lucky. You get alot of goblins! I want some! Can you send some over?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:16, 10 April 2008 (EDT

== Weapons ==

Clicking the links of some of the types of weapons redirects back to weapons. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 21:07, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:This is a feature called a redirect. If you want to then go ahead and create enough of an article that nobody reverts it back to a redirect. For a lot of weapons there isn't that much of a need for a seperate article, but the redirect will point someone back to a place they can find out what they need to know.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Trap components as weapons ==

"There are a few enormous weapons that no race can wield..."<br>
I beg to differ. In Adventure mode, at least in "Play Now", you can in fact pick these things up and hit people with them. I dunno if they come with lots of negatives for being a stupid weapon, but I know I've used an enormous wooden corkscrew to fight troglydites before. That, and a barrel of dwarven wine.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 11:19, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:I know that adventurers can do things that shouldn't be possible. Other creatures are technically capable of doing those things, but their code won't ask them to do them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:51, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::I'll say.  In adventure mode, you can carry around and throw anvils at enemies.  It does no more damage than sand and you'll have the speed of a glacier, but it's hilarious.  I suspect, though, that improvised weapons are as effective as unarmed attacks.  I'll have to check on that though.  --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:45, 13 January 2009 (EST)

== Possible bug with long swords in 40d (not wieldable in two hands) ==

Today I traded for two wooden longswords and set two new recruits to use them for sparring.
The recruits continually go pick up the swords ("Pickup Equipment") and then instantly drop the weapon on the ground.  It doesn't matter whether they are on duty or not, actually.

Is it possible this is a bug in 40d?  Is it possible that oversized weapons that the article lists as being wieldable in two hands actually require a certain amount of strength attribute?  Or is it that the article is just completely mistaken on long swords as being wieldable by dwarves using both hands?  Any thoughts or input would be nice.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 01:02, 11 February 2009 (EST)

:If I recall, someone somewhere mentioned that setting a dwarf to use two weapons will permit them to hold two-handed weapons. I'm yet to confirm is this works, since I've not got any two-handed weapons available.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:28, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::Ok, thanks.  Stupidly, in a moment of frustration I abandoned the fortress.  I will also try to confirm this again.  If it's true, that info definately needs to be in the article...--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 00:35, 12 February 2009 (EST)

==Unusual materials==
I was hoping to make some wooden weapons for sparring, but I don't seem to be able to make anything but the enormous trap components and bolts out of wood. Am I missing something, or can dwarves only make bolts from wood, and other wooden weapons have to be traded for/looted?
Along the same lines, it'd be really nice to know more specifically what the "handful" of weapons are that can be made of other materials, and what materials each can be made from. If anyone can verify that info here I'll try and add it into the article. (I'll find out what I can, but have no access to obsidian atm). [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 19:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:That "handful" of weapons is just bolts (wood or bone), crossbows (wood or bone), and stone short swords (1 wood + 1 obsidian, just as deadly as steel).  Anything else has to be imported.  The good news is that you can make weapons out of silver, which is just as bad as wood when it comes to hurting things.  It's expensive as hell, but sparring weapons are sparring weapons. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks Legacy, the way I was reading the article I was SURE there must be others and I was just missing something on how to manufacture them. It seems to me that list is short enough to be specific about, so I'll go ahead and edit it in (and probably steal your concise formatting) to make it clearer (unless someone objects).
::Thanks also for the tip on silver; I was planning to check the table right after I checked here. I do have some galena on my current map but it might be a while til I can reach it... since the elves are mostly bringing me useless junk and haven't appointed a liason, I might just go with copper weapons and iron/steel armor and cross my fingers.
::On the bright side though, they're bringing me plenty of tamed bears in case I decide to forge a few tricycles, sew a few fezs and start a circus! [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 05:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Overall best trap weapon==

Disregarding material, which weapon would work the best for a weapon trap?
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 :::I'm almost certain this is dwarf specific, because I had some goblin axemen siege my base, and one of them was wielding a great axe in one hand, and a shield (not even a *buckler*) in the other hand. I think I saw the same thing with a halberd, but a pike was multigrasped. Looks like goblins have a lot more options than our poor dwarves. --Gotthard 12:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)
-:::As another issue I just noticed, my hammerer came equipped not with a hammer, but a *maul*.  Seems that spawned creatures can use whatever they are spawned with, but telling them to equip items they can't use is the problem.  Purely speculative, but it would account for goblins with two handed axes and shields, as well as my hammerer with the maul (which was AWESOME by the way...) --Gotthard 04:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 == Pike ==
@@ Line 51: / Line 49: @@
 :"Unortodox" weapons are not really weapons. However, since ''absolutly anything thrown is deadly in the curren fight code'', a lot of people use about anything in adventure mode. This is how coins became popular as a throwing weapon. Part because it's as deadly as anything else and very light which mean you can carry a lot around, part because it is a weapon used in other ascii or rogue like games. You could throw butterfly corpses and mud around and it would be just as deadly as coins. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:52, 13 February 2008 (EST)
-:Well, you don't even have to throw them for them to be deadly. I know of a cyclops that had managed to wrestle a full waterskin from one of my adventurers and beat several of them to death with it, greatly amplifying the damage it was doing. --[[User:Toastdieb|Toastdieb]] 21:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
-Does anybody know the actual damage values for improvised weapons?  I just picked up a chunk of raw adamantine and killed a tentacle demon in a matter of seconds.--[[User:Igfig|Igfig]] 11:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
-:(In Fortress or Adventure mode?)
-:(Adventure.  I doubt it matters for the values though.)
 == Great axe ==
@@ Line 90: / Line 82: @@
 ::Ok, thanks.  Stupidly, in a moment of frustration I abandoned the fortress.  I will also try to confirm this again.  If it's true, that info definately needs to be in the article...--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 00:35, 12 February 2009 (EST)
-My dwarves won't use the longswords I loot off goblins. If I set them to use Two Weapons, they'll just pick up two short swords instead. Curiously, one of them had two obsidian short swords in the ''same hand.'' <small>Predictably, he is now resting in the barracks with a broken arm.</small> --[[User:Loyal|Loyal]] 16:47, 30 December 2009 (EST)
 ==Unusual materials==
@@ Line 105: / Line 95: @@
 ==Overall best trap weapon==
-Disregarding material, which weapon would work the best for a weapon trap? ''(unsigned by [[User:Lemonpieman|Lemonpieman]])''
+Disregarding material, which weapon would work the best for a weapon trap?
-:Simply put, there is no single "best".  If the creature has internal organs, the spiked ball (3 piercing attacks) can achieve a lucky (if not immediate) kill.  The giant axe is the meanest, dishing out huge amounts of damage and can severe limbs - and even a zombie GCS is less dangerous without a leg or four. The corkscrew and serrated disk are in between, each w/ diff crits as above. A spike has some special uses that are unique to that.  Slashing weapons tend to leave body parts that dwarfs want to clean up. Decide what you want to kill (or maim), and what its weak points are, and base your decision off of that. (and sign your posts)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
-:: [[Cages]]. They're one enemy removed automatically, no matter how powerful. (Of course, since they're one-shot traps, it's probably best to back them up with row after row of serrated discs, spiked balls, and axe blades). And we can't forget the importance of using weapons that your dwarves can't, like mauls, to add a bit of an unpleasant surprise. --Count Dorku
-::: though if you have the resources, just use alternating layers of trap-cage-trap-cage...[[Special:Contributions/24.18.8.160|24.18.8.160]] 05:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
-== Weapons dwarves can use in Fortress mode ==
-Dwarves can't be assigned to use two handed weapons (except the crossbow), whips and daggers. Can they use the Scimitar, Flail and Morning Star, a sword and maces if the fortress manages to get a hold of them?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 19:52, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
-:Yes on scimitar.
-:Funny thing: If you set a soldier to sword and only long swords are available, he will run in circles picking it up, trying to equip, drop it, walk away, turn back, pick it up, trying to equip, drop it...unless you set number of weapons to 2 - then it works! --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 02:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
-::While a dwarf can use a mace (among others), it isn't one of the "basic" weapons, that dwarfs can manufacture.  That's how those tables are set up atm, not "usable/not usable".  Mace should not have been moved (or the tables re-sorted).  I'd rather see basic/foreign weapons, w/ notes as to whether they're usable or not, and how.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
-:::Er what? Look at your forge or a random dwarf. I guess you mixed up [[mace]] with some other weapon. [[Macedwarf]] is a perfectly normal [[skill]]. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:26, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
-::::...I gotta stop smokin' crack while I'm editing, clearly. I guess that since the stats 100% ''identical'' to a hammer, I had put it in the same category as morningstar or scimitar in my mind.  nm. <goes back to hittin' the pipe> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
-== Blowgun damage ==
-Wait, is it just me, or do blowguns do ''more'' damage in melee than they do in ranged combat? What's up with that? I know the darts are small and all, but WHAT.<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:KoboldInDisguise|KoboldInDisguise]]</small>
-:I'd guess it's intended as a poison delivery system, a part of combat not (yet?) implemented. For all those scorpion and spider and etc venoms we see in trade that have no (current) use.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
-== Two Weapons ==
-Does the two weapon setting allow dwarves to dual-wield or do they use one weapon with both hands?
---[[User:Newtype0083|Newtype0083]] 15:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
-:No, it determines whether they'll use one-handed weapons (Spear) or two handed weapons (Pike). I'm certain on the not-duel-weidling, but somebody please verify if that is the actual difference it makes, as I've never been able to get any foreign weapons in my fort that are weildable at all
-::No - it's ''supposed'' to do that - but Toady has stated that it's broken, broken, broken. Best not to go there for now. And many [[other weapon]]s are simply not currently usable by dwarves. (and sign your posts!). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:23, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
-== Weapon damage vs. creature damage ==
-What is the comparison between, say, an iron short sword, wielded by a size 6 creature, and that same creature's claw, doing 1:6 damage?
-These seem to be separate, incompatible damage systems. How do they differ? [[Special:Contributions/68.43.43.52|68.43.43.52]] 00:59, 15 March 2010 (UTC)