Editing Category talk:Mods

I was led astray a long while as I looked for information on modding before I found [[40d:Modding guide]]. 

Right now we have [[Mods]] and [[Modding]] which are nearly duplicates of one another. Messy, messy. Delete/merge.

Furthermore, link the surviving category to [[40d:Modding guide]]--[[User:Carlthuringer|Carlthuringer]] 13:23, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:See reply, top of [[40d Talk:Modding guide]].--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Cranked out this outline/draft.--[[User:Carlthuringer|Carlthuringer]] 10:40, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

== Community Guidelines ==
[[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#N|N]] is for Names. New pages should be singular nouns wherever applicable with few exceptions.
[[Mod]] Should probably redirect to [[Mods]] which seems to follow well with [[Creatures]], [[Skills]], [[Buildings]] as a category comprised of many similar items. [[Mod]] currently redirects to Template:Mod.

[[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#R|R]] is for Redundancy.
We want to try to avoid categorizing pages under [[Mods]] and [[Modding]] of course, and after looking carefully over both categories I found that there is little or none of that going on. However, I would propose that due to the nature of 99% of articles categorized under [[Modding]] that we should consider moving to the more specific (and noun-like!) [[40d:Modding_reference]] for all articles currently classified under [[Modding]]. I think this would eliminate all potential for double- or cross-categorization between the two.

I consider that [[Modding]] might then redirect naturally to [[40d:Modding_guide]], which can link to [[40d:Modding_reference]].

Then [[Mods]] will have sub-category [[40d:Modding_reference]] and also link to [[40d:Modding_guide]]

===Unofficial Naming Conventions===
Editors have run into a similar confusion with other topics where "theory" vs "examples" tended to muddy each other. The solution was to create "design" articles, pages whose ''sole'' function was to act as a repository and showcase for user-created examples, their personal spin on the topic. See [[trap]] vs. [[trap design]], or [[bed]] vs. [[bedroom]] vs. [[bedroom design]], each of which have specifically different content, the game item vs theory vs examples. So that would suggest changing the name of that article from "Mods" to "Mod design", to keep it parallel to other articles. And the search word "mods" could then redirect either to here, or to the Category or the Guide. As a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
:I agree with your assessment on this, Albedo. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 15:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

== Pages linked to [[Mods]] and [[Modding]] ==
[[Main_Page]] Links to [[Modding]]. (Note all the other categories grammatical leaning: Dwarves, World, Buildings, Modding, Items, Interface. Wouldn't the plural noun 'Mods' fit better, logically, in that table than the Gerunnd 'modding'?) Furthermore, [[Modding]] is an index of token references, which won't help new players one bit, IMHO.
It should probably link to [[Mods]].
:[[Mods]] are finished products, not a discussion of "modding", which is what most using that word in the Search function are looking for. "Modding" should link to the [[Modding guide]], which should then, in turn, link users to all the other related articles, like "mods"...  (& see comments immed below) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:53, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

[[40d:Civilization]]

[[User:MaxVance/Main_Glade|The Elf Forest Wiki]] Huh. Anyways, it's mostly a copy of [[Main_Page]]

[[40d:Wizard]] Linked by the Gerund form 'modding,' evidence for the redirection argument.

[[Mods]] "If you want to know how to create Mods, see [[Modding]]." Except that [[Modding]] doesnt' tell you how to create mods, so good luck, there!

[[User:Mason11987/All_Categories]] A list of all the categories.

[[User_talk:Briess]] Part of discussion suggesting a custom namespace, 'Mod' to cover all mod-related pages on the wiki. Sounds like namespace nightmare, what with the 40d namespace beginning to propogate and become standard.

:(cont'd from immed above)
:...I think the title of this subsection points to one of the current problems - that users might type in "mod" or "mods" or "modding" to Search for a "How to" article, but NONE of those lead to it. When I created that green "M Category:Modding" template, I also created a redirect for the word [[mod]], since that's the word in the template, " <nowiki>{{mod}}</nowiki> ".  (It made more sense to me than any other template name at the time, and fewer letters to type).
:Similarly (I'm guessing), when the user ([[User:Nate879|Nate879]]) later created this category (and Thanks to them for doing so!), they created a redirect for the word [[modding]] to more easily navigate back to this page, since the article name is " [[:category:modding]] " and that ''cannot'' be used as a link (it turns invisible unless typed as <nowiki>[[:category:modding]]</nowiki>, as any category tag does!)  That may have made sense at the time, but it doesn't work for users now seeking information on "modding".
:And that's what started the problem. When a user types in "mod", they get the template (wrong), so they then type in "modding" and find themselves here. And that's why the (inappropriate) stub article on modding exists on this page. (That, and no one has ever created links TO the [[Modding guide]]! HINT HINT!)
:So, currently...
::* [[mod]] redirects to the template itself.
::* [[mods]] redirects to a list of completed, user-created mods.
::* [[modding]] ''(at the time of this writing, but not for long)'' redirects to [[:category:modding]], which lists anything that has been put in this category using the " <nowiki>[[category:modding]]</nowiki> " tag - which is all the mods ''plus'' articles on [[token]]s etc., etc.
:And that last is what's fueling the problem.  So I'm going to Be Bold and fix that, at least,  redirecting "modding" to the "modding guide". I suggest that most of that "article" be copied/pasted to the Modding Guide (and/or in part to the top of the [[mods]] page, which '''DESPERATELY''' needs some explanation and a "How to"), and also that some Disambig-style comment be added to the top of this article (this wiki uses few formal "disambig" pages - see [[block]] or [[brew]] for what we need here, rather than [[pike]] or [[pool]]).  All that should be here is a comment on how to use the category tag, similar to comments on the [[del]] category page.  Users who want to help should find appropriate articles to add links to the [[modding guide]], which can now (as you read this) just be linked via the word "modding".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:53, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::A number of modding articles have already been moved into the Modification namespace; since it's listed as a content repository, any search should bring up those articles if a redirect doesn't already exist. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 15:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
== Pages linked from [[Mods]] ==
[[Modding]] and [[Mods]] link to each other as subcategories recursively. R is for Redundant, and Recursive? Which is the category and which is the subcategory?

[[40d Talk:Armor]] As [[User:Albedo]] pointed out with the mod template, this ain't about mods!

[[40d:Basilisk_mod]] Some information on a mod, but no information about acquiring/installing/setting up the mod itself.

[[40d:Cheating]] A pretty decent article about using some simple modding to make the game easier.

[[40d:Color_schemes]] I don't agree that this is modding, since it's in the realm of init changes, but whatever.

[[40d:Deserted_squad_mod]] A good example for the [[40d:Basilisk_mod|Basilisk]] page, even though it still doesn't have install files or instructions.

[[40d:Dwarf_silk]] An even better mod example, using a collapsed 'game data' field at the bottom of the article to contain the raw code for adding the silk-bearded dwarves.

[[40d:Graphics_set_repository]] A different sort of mod that I think improves usability for new players. Still, can step outside the vanilla experience and also involves some more careful text editing and therefore not for the faint of heart.

[[40d:Key_bindings]]

[[40d:Modding_guide]] The excellent Modding Guide!!!

[[40d:New_Plants]] Some decent added plant stuff.

[[40d:Wizard]] I really don't consider this a mod at all.

[[Civilization_Forge]] A good, full page for the Civilization Forge mod.

[[Creature_Modding_Gui]] Stub.

[[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Request_for_Adminship/Albedo]] This is in 'Category:Mods' for some reason. Mods, as in moderators? Don't get me wrong, I do like [[User:Albedo]] ;D.

[[List_of_mods]] Best place ever to post your mod, rather than on its own stub page, or its own page period. Put 'em all in one place.

[[Memory_hacking/v0.28.181.40d18]] I assume this is for advanced modders, people running debuggers, or developing things like LifeVis/3Dwarf.

[[Modification:Chaos_Reigns]] A pretty solid-looking mod. Title 'modification:...' inspires some consideration. vs. 'Mod:...'

[[Modification:Dracon_mod]] This is barely more than a stub with little to no information, and also no links to raw data or downloads.

[[New_Hats]] A simple little paste-this-code-here add on for your game. Great stuff, maybe worth considering a sub-category 'Addons:...' for just such small tweaks to the game.

[[New_creatures]] A few new creatures. Could take a tip from [[New_Hats]] with putting the paste-able code into <code>&ltpre&gt</code> tags.

[[New_frontier]] A total-conversion type mod that again has no downloads. Another concern: No dates, so there's no telling without looking at the history whether progress is recent, or stagnant.

[[Orc]] Says Orcs are sometimes modded into games, but not listed as a race in this Wiki. So why do they have a page, a near-stub, even?

[[Speech_mods]] A guide for modifying the speech that characters use. A good candidate for linking from the [[40d:Modding_Guide]].

[[Tileset_repository]] Well... It's filed under mods, but changing tilesets is pretty easy and since DF already comes with a few tilesets in Vanilla form, is it really that much of a mod? Most of them simply try to nice-up the appearance of walls and objects without making other features or letters look funky in the process.

[[User:Booken]] Keeping a Wyrm addon in a userpage. Formatted nicely similar to [[40d:Dwarf_silk]].

[[User:Exponent/Mineral_Mod]] An incomplete mineral overhaul. Has paste-able code, though, which I approve of.

[[User:Sphr/gfx_set]] An absolutely incredible resource for a Graphics set. Other sets ought to have 1/10 this much information, which is pretty lacking in the [[40d:Graphics_set_repository]]

== Modification namespace ==

I'm gonna go ahead and create a little template box for mods (Name, version, last updated, download link, etc) and then start making pages for everything in [[Mods]]. --{{User:Syzgyn/Sig}} 20:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)