Editing DF2014 Talk:Quickstart guide

==Spring==
Some of this article still assumes that the fortress will start in Spring, but that's not necessarily true any more. I don't know how to fix it without making things more complicated though. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 20:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:I decided to go with "in the first six month", "by your third season", or similar. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 02:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

== Change name to "Fortress Mode Quick start"? ==
I feel like this page should be moved to [[Fortress mode quick start]], not only to be consistent with the name [[Adventure mode quick start]], but also to make it so that the name is more descriptive. "Quickstart guide" could mean anything, really. (For me at least, the current title feels like the name for some hypothetical "how to get DF running" guide, moreso than a fortress mode guide.) As a bonus, the new name doesn't imply that fortress mode is somehow the "default" or "main" mode of play <code>:)</code> . —[[User:Lue|Lue]] ([[User talk:Lue|talk]]) 02:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:Makes sense to me. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 18:34, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:The game is called 'Dwarf Fortress' and the game mode at issue is called 'Dwarf Fortress' so I think it's reasonable to imply that this is the default mode of play. I don't actually care what the article's title is, but I don't really think anyone is confused by the status quo and if they are I don't think they can handle anything more challenging than legends mode. So I guess this is a vote against.[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] ([[User talk:Qalnor|talk]])

== Articles not Transferring over between versions ==
I was just browsing through this guide when I noticed that the "starting site" and "preparing carefully" articles are red links. Those pages existed for the last version of this article, but apparently they haven't been transferred over to DF2014 (that's the current version?). I really don't know much about this game or how wikis work, but for anybody else who views this guide it might be useful to see about getting those pages updated so the "where to start" article doesn't have red links in really important places.
:Apparently subpages weren't copied over. I'll work on this tomorrow, hopefully. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:04, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Great Guide ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">No section specified</div>
I installed DF last night and this guide got me rolling withing a few hours. Thanks! (Well, the DF Starter Pack deserves some credit as well...) --[[Special:Contributions/94.65.62.78|94.65.62.78]] 21:12, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback from anonymous user ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Nobles|Nobles]]</div>
Details on how to read the two columns in the inventory/stocks screen would be great here. --[[Special:Contributions/99.234.13.193|99.234.13.193]] 03:06, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
:Added a link to [[stocks]]. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 03:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: wheelbarrow ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Workshops|Workshops]]</div>
Maybe im being dumb and blind but i can't find wheelbarrow in Carpenter Workshop.

This is the paragraph where it is explained, but im going through the list and can't find "wheelbarrow".
"Also, it would be helpful to build a few wheelbarrows to make hauling large objects easier. Queue up 2 or 3 at the carpenter's workshop (they're located near the bottom of the list, but remember that scrolling up with - warps to the bottom of the list). While the wheelbarrows are being built, select your stone stockpile with q and use w to increase "Max Wheelbarrow" to 3 (the maximum). Your dwarves will automatically move wheelbarrows to the stockpile once they are built." 

Maybe it's name got changed or it's being build somewhere else. --[[Special:Contributions/84.114.70.137|84.114.70.137]] 19:59, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

:What version of DF are you using? As long as you're using v0.34.08 or higher, they're definitely built at a carpenter's workshop (located between "Make wooden minecart" and "Make wooden pipe section"). You may be confused because they're not on the first page of the list, which is mentioned in the paragraph you quoted. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:02, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: what? ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Delving Secure Lodgings|Delving Secure Lodgings]]</div>
This is incredibly confusing. The picture doesn't even show the entrance. I thought it was supposed to be 20 tiles long and 1 wide. It is nowhere to be found. --[[Special:Contributions/63.142.119.65|63.142.119.65]] 13:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

:This picture shows the entry tunnel ''after'' the modifications described in the first two sentences of this section:
<blockquote>
"Near the middle of the entry tunnel, build a 5x5 room, and link it to the entrance tunnel with a 3-tile-wide passageway. Expand the main entry tunnel to three tiles wide from the entrance of the new room to the outside entry."
</blockquote>
:The entrance tunnel extends from the upward ramps on the right to the large room on the left. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 14:16, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Don't know how many barrels are in currently in my stockpile ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Brewing | Brewing ]]</div>
It says to reduce the max barrels to the number currently in the pile, but I don't know how to find that. Thanks. --[[Special:Contributions/196.200.93.16|196.200.93.16]] 15:02, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
: Removed that part, since it's not necessary (in fact, the whole point of reserved barrels is to ''avoid'' adjusting the settings of every stockpile). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:45, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: 1x1 stairway or 3x3 stairway ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stairways | Stairways ]]</div>
It says to put a stairway in the middle of the room we created for them. That would seem to suggest 1 square stairway. I see some of the graphics that on the floor below it looks like there are 3x3 stairs. I don't know what the implications are of either option or what's intended.

Thanks --[[Special:Contributions/196.200.93.16|196.200.93.16]] 15:05, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

:It should be a 3x3 staircase in the 3x3 room (see the picture) - hopefully I made this somewhat clearer. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:45, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Shift + > or Shift + < ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stairways | Stairways ]]</div>
I know there are different graphics when shift should be pushed but showing it for < or > is confusing.  It was not apparent that I should hit shift.  Had to search somewhere else to figure out how to change z levels --[[Special:Contributions/76.125.186.211|76.125.186.211]] 00:04, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
:Many keyboard layouts (including US keyboards) require {{k|Shift}} to type {{k|<}} and {{k|>}} - this isn't DF-specific. I added a note in the first place those keys are mentioned. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 17:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback from anonymous user ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stairways | Stairways ]]</div>
"in the middle of the 3x3 room you dug out earlier"

May be 5x5 room? --[[Special:Contributions/94.181.49.32|94.181.49.32]] 15:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

:No, this is correct. From the article:
::Near the middle of the entry tunnel, build a 5x5 room, and link it to the entrance tunnel with a 3-tile-wide passageway. Expand the main entry tunnel to three tiles wide from the entrance of the new room to the outside entry. '''At the end of the entry tunnel, dig a 3x3 room, which will later become your main stairwell.'''
:I've added a note to the article about this. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Boooze over ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Checking Supplies|Checking Supplies]]</div>
In a upper paragraph didn't we make more booze? --[[Special:Contributions/191.180.4.103|191.180.4.103]] 02:38, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Great guide! ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">No section specified</div>
Hey, I really appreciate the work that went into making this guide. I've tried a few times in the past to get into Dwarf Fortress - but I never came victor. I thought it was way too complex for me, and even though I love complex simulators, I finally gave up.

Recently it started bugging me again, and I gave it another chance. Thanks to this guide, I finally *understood* the meaning of the game and I can now play and discover much like anyone else. There was just this single lever to (P)ull, and now that's on it can never be turned off.

Thanks a bunch, guys. --[[Special:Contributions/94.36.51.106|94.36.51.106]] 08:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback from anonymous user ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stockpiles | Stockpiles ]]</div>
I got some issues with my "general purpose stockpiles", whem digging it, i got many leftover chert . . . I don't know how to remove those stuff to create a fully vacant stockpiles.

In the guide we get a note about it, but no info on how to change this. Hide the chert let them still on the tiles and dumping them, not make something for me at this point . . .

Thank for the guide and for the help --[[Special:Contributions/89.3.210.92|89.3.210.92]] 18:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: Bruh ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stairways | Stairways ]]</div>
3x3 is ugly bruh --[[Special:Contributions/66.171.208.194|66.171.208.194]] 04:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

== Not starting with Plump Helmets ==

I've started several different fortresses using the default loadouts, but have yet to start with a farmer or any Plump Helmet seeds. I'm using version 40.24, not sure if that matters. I do start with Shade Thorn saplings and Devil Mushrooms. Can I make booze with these instead of the plump helmets?
:These plants aren't present in the vanilla/unedited game. I recommend you ask in a thread or forum that's familiar with the mods you use. --[[User:Button|Button]] ([[User talk:Button|talk]]) 01:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The only mod I've installed was a tileset mod. No extra items or seeds. I've already got a decent sized fortress now, is there a way to get plump helmets other than starting with them?
:Again, you have plants which aren't present in the unmodified game. We have no way of knowing if plump helmets even still exist in the mod you're using. I suggest you ask at wherever you downloaded your copy of Dwarf Fortress from. --[[User:Button|Button]] ([[User talk:Button|talk]]) 18:29, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

:If you installed a new version over an older version, any mods might remain and cause problems. Although, if your game has plump helmets at all, you will probably be able to purchase them from the dwarven caravan (they always seem to bring plenty).--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 21:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I've never used a mod with this game before other than this new tileset. There were no old versions on this computer. The last dwarven caravan had no plump helmets either. It seems I'm SOL. I'll have to go with aboveground farms until I figure out what's wrong. Thanks for trying to help though. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:50.103.31.170|50.103.31.170]]</small>

== Grazers ==
So after the issue with the plump helmets I now realize that none of my grazing animals will eat. They simply walk around, remove all the grass, then promptly starve to death, regardless of how large the pen is that I put them in. I'm starting to think that my entire game may be bugged. I really like the world I have now and would really like to keep playing it. If anyone has any ideas on how to fix my grazers it would be greatly appreciated. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:50.103.31.170|50.103.31.170]]</small>

Turns out the "tileset" I downloaded changes a huge number of things in the game, adding plants, animals, weapons and all kinds of other things. Real nice of the guy that made it to mention that in his post. Sorry for wasting your time. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:50.103.31.170|50.103.31.170]]</small>

:Which tileset is this, exactly? Can you provide a link to this post? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:37, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

== Masterwork? ==

This page is not really a must-read topic, but it is the single most thorough and detailed article on the entire wiki, perhaps on the best articles in the whole dwarffortressverse. (Horrible -verse name alert) I believe this article should be masterwork. Is that enough to negate the must-read requirement? {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|17:41|March 26, 2015}}

:I don't think the "must-read" topic requirement is as important as other criteria. Feel free to change this page's rating if you see fit. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:06, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

== Strictness of instructions ==
There are a lot of instructions like "dig a 3x20 hallway", "make a 3x3 stairway", "two tiles past that, dig a 11x11 room". I believe it's detrimental to the creativity of beginners and ultimately the variety of fortresses to give such exact instructions. Instead, something like "make a stairway", "dig a large room", etc should be preferred. In addition, a paragraph talking about reasonable dimensions ("most fortresses will do with a 2x2 staircase", "a 3 tile wide hallway is enough for the main hallways of 200+ fortresses") should give beginners a sufficient scale to base their decisions on.

The question is whether it's better to give new players actual numbers to follow or instead give them rough dimensions and tell them to experiment.
I fear that the former will rear players that build nothing but cookie cutter fortresses following exact dimensions of this guide; while the latter might simply be inferior as a guide.
[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 23:31, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

:I tried to remove some rigid measurements from the guide a while back, so I don't object to removing others and adding more explanations. Of course, the minimum 3-tile-wide hallway to allow for wagon access is important to mention, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 18:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
::Done. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 18:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

== Perhaps more information on trading would be useful? ==

What should I get? What should I be trading? [[Special:Contributions/216.254.133.138|216.254.133.138]] 21:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
:I think the most reliable thing for trading away would be prepared meals? They're relatively high value, and not very difficult to make lots of. [[Special:Contributions/2602:302:D111:7290:9357:C7C4:D315:4B93|2602:302:D111:7290:9357:C7C4:D315:4B93]] 01:38, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
::I expanded the trading section a little. Probably needs some correction and changes. In the end, I decided to omit the prepared meals, as a couple of barrels full of lavish meals created by a legendary cook can easily buy the entire caravan 3 times over. It makes the game ridiculously easy really quick, and I figure new players probably have more fun in the long run if they can't get everything from a caravan right away. I also mentioned the usual suspects for missing mood items as must-have supply, without explicitly mentioning moods as they're a bit spoiler-y and not mentioned anywhere else in the guide. Not sure if we should a) not mention these altogether, b) mention them without explaining why they're important, or c) list them with an explanation and link to mood page. Personally I think it's fine as I made it though.[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 13:54, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: how to cook ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Brewing and Cooking|Brewing and Cooking]]</div>
It would be nice to know how one actually does any cooking. Shall one dwarf be assigned with the cooking labor? And then what? --[[Special:Contributions/81.216.197.38|81.216.197.38]] 13:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: Those pictures are extremely confusing ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Traps|Traps]]</div>
The pictures are either not helpful at all or marginally helpful without explanation of what they mean. --[[Special:Contributions/67.54.220.18|67.54.220.18]] 20:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: Zombies! ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#World Generation|World Generation]]</div>
I would like to suggests that all players to consider the fact that if there's a necromancer tower near you. Your kingdom will most likely be siege by various undead animals. Please put this note in for future new players. I have suffered the consequence by these unholy beings slaughtering my 22 little workers, 2 of which being children. RIP Rocksgrope. --[[User:Stagskull|Stagskull]] ([[User talk:Stagskull|talk]]) 07:04, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

==I need an earlier step==
I downloaded df_42_06_win.zip and unzipped it to a folder and read the readme.txt but I can't figure out what I should open to launch the actual game, <s>can someone add an earlier step to this guide explaining how to go from downloading > unzipping > what to open to launch the game?</s> NM I found [[DF2014:Installation]] but I will link that at the start. [[Special:Contributions/184.145.18.50|184.145.18.50]] 20:27, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

==Mouse wheel==
Under [[DF2014:Quickstart_guide#Surveying_the_Area]] it talks about keys. I noticed that when I scroll my mouse wheel up/forward it zooms out and down/back it zooms in. Is this a proper way to interact with the map? [[Special:Contributions/184.145.18.50|184.145.18.50]] 20:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Add a bit more ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Refuse|Refuse]]</div>
Add a bit more --[[Special:Contributions/69.112.13.248|69.112.13.248]] 00:43, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

:Such as? For a quick start, that's all you need to know about refuse. Remember that this is the quickstart guide - here to give you a quick start with only the minimal amount of critical information. If you need in depth documentation, you can look up everything on the relevant wiki pages. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 11:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Example screenshot of search ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Choosing a Good Site | Choosing a Good Site ]]</div>
There should be an example screenshot of the search window for new players to understand how the interface works better. --[[User:Enzanki ars|Enzanki ars]] ([[User talk:Enzanki ars|talk]]) 22:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Thanks! ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Feedback | Feedback ]]</div>
Most helpful.

One confusing area: the pictures illustrating the initial setup in the Room Dimensions section.

Please edit the picture to include labels, so that it actually *is* clear which area is which. Also, it isn't too clear where in that image the fortress connects with the surface. --[[Special:Contributions/109.202.107.10|109.202.107.10]] 10:31, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Problems? ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Workshops|Workshops]]</div>
I've followed all of the instructions and have a ton of architect dwarves and everything is set up like it should be, but my dwarves aren't building workshops. In the "q" menu it says "Waiting for construction... Construction inactive." Maybe add more troubleshoots, I can't possibly be the only one having this problem. --[[Special:Contributions/50.35.12.66|50.35.12.66]] 00:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Only a few workshops require the [[architecture]] labor to be enabled for their construction. Most instead only require a labor specific to the kind of work performed at the workshop. For instance, to build a kitchen ({{k|b}}-{{k|w}}-{{k|z}}), you need to enable the [[cooking]] labor for at least one dwarf. The chosen dwarf does not actually need to have any [[skill]] in cooking; only workshops that actually do require Architecture have any measure of building quality, and even that has no effect on how well they function. If you choose an unskilled dwarf to construct the workshop, remember to disable the labor afterwards so he doesn't then try to make use of the workshop.

:Another thing that might be wrong is for construction to have been interrupted for some reason. Common causes are animals (domestic or otherwise) wandering over the construction site, dwarves getting spooked by threatening encounters, or the selected building materials becoming inaccessible for some reason. If so, you should resolve the issue ([[pasture]] animals, wait for the threat to pass, send [[squad]]s, etc.) and then {{k|q}}-{{k|s}} over the workshop in order to resume construction. If all else fails, you can {{k|q}}-{{k|x}} the workshop to deconstruct it (instantaneous if it hasn't been built yet) and attempt to build it at a different location. --[[User:Rriegs|Rriegs]] ([[User talk:Rriegs|talk]]) 17:03, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

::I've added explicit mention of the need for workshop labors to be enabled in order to construct workshops. The other possible problem (suspended construction) and its solution was already mentioned in the [[Quickstart guide#Workshops|Workshops]] section. --[[User:Rriegs|Rriegs]] ([[User talk:Rriegs|talk]]) 18:40, 8 February 2017 (UTC)