Editing DF2014 Talk:Quickstart guide

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# [[DF2014_Talk:Quickstart_guide/archive1|Archive 1]]
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==Spring==
Some of this article still assumes that the fortress will start in Spring, but that's not necessarily true any more. I don't know how to fix it without making things more complicated though. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 20:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:I decided to go with "in the first six month", "by your third season", or similar. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 02:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: what? ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Delving Secure Lodgings|Delving Secure Lodgings]]</div>
This is incredibly confusing. The picture doesn't even show the entrance. I thought it was supposed to be 20 tiles long and 1 wide. It is nowhere to be found. --[[Special:Contributions/63.142.119.65|63.142.119.65]] 13:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

:This picture shows the entry tunnel ''after'' the modifications described in the first two sentences of this section:
<blockquote>
"Near the middle of the entry tunnel, build a 5x5 room, and link it to the entrance tunnel with a 3-tile-wide passageway. Expand the main entry tunnel to three tiles wide from the entrance of the new room to the outside entry."
</blockquote>
:The entrance tunnel extends from the upward ramps on the right to the large room on the left. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 14:16, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback: Boooze over ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Checking Supplies|Checking Supplies]]</div>
In a upper paragraph didn't we make more booze? --[[Special:Contributions/191.180.4.103|191.180.4.103]] 02:38, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

== Feedback from anonymous user ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Stockpiles | Stockpiles ]]</div>
I got some issues with my "general purpose stockpiles", whem digging it, i got many leftover chert . . . I don't know how to remove those stuff to create a fully vacant stockpiles.

In the guide we get a note about it, but no info on how to change this. Hide the chert let them still on the tiles and dumping them, not make something for me at this point . . .

Thank for the guide and for the help --[[Special:Contributions/89.3.210.92|89.3.210.92]] 18:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

== Strictness of instructions ==
There are a lot of instructions like "dig a 3x20 hallway", "make a 3x3 stairway", "two tiles past that, dig a 11x11 room". I believe it's detrimental to the creativity of beginners and ultimately the variety of fortresses to give such exact instructions. Instead, something like "make a stairway", "dig a large room", etc should be preferred. In addition, a paragraph talking about reasonable dimensions ("most fortresses will do with a 2x2 staircase", "a 3 tile wide hallway is enough for the main hallways of 200+ fortresses") should give beginners a sufficient scale to base their decisions on.

The question is whether it's better to give new players actual numbers to follow or instead give them rough dimensions and tell them to experiment.
I fear that the former will rear players that build nothing but cookie cutter fortresses following exact dimensions of this guide; while the latter might simply be inferior as a guide.
[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 23:31, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

:I tried to remove some rigid measurements from the guide a while back, so I don't object to removing others and adding more explanations. Of course, the minimum 3-tile-wide hallway to allow for wagon access is important to mention, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 18:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
::Done. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 18:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

== Perhaps more information on trading would be useful? ==

What should I get? What should I be trading? [[Special:Contributions/216.254.133.138|216.254.133.138]] 21:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
:I think the most reliable thing for trading away would be prepared meals? They're relatively high value, and not very difficult to make lots of. [[Special:Contributions/2602:302:D111:7290:9357:C7C4:D315:4B93|2602:302:D111:7290:9357:C7C4:D315:4B93]] 01:38, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
::I expanded the trading section a little. Probably needs some correction and changes. In the end, I decided to omit the prepared meals, as a couple of barrels full of lavish meals created by a legendary cook can easily buy the entire caravan 3 times over. It makes the game ridiculously easy really quick, and I figure new players probably have more fun in the long run if they can't get everything from a caravan right away. I also mentioned the usual suspects for missing mood items as must-have supply, without explicitly mentioning moods as they're a bit spoiler-y and not mentioned anywhere else in the guide. Not sure if we should a) not mention these altogether, b) mention them without explaining why they're important, or c) list them with an explanation and link to mood page. Personally I think it's fine as I made it though.[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 13:54, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: how to cook ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Brewing and Cooking|Brewing and Cooking]]</div>
It would be nice to know how one actually does any cooking. Shall one dwarf be assigned with the cooking labor? And then what? --[[Special:Contributions/81.216.197.38|81.216.197.38]] 13:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: Those pictures are extremely confusing ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Traps|Traps]]</div>
The pictures are either not helpful at all or marginally helpful without explanation of what they mean. --[[Special:Contributions/67.54.220.18|67.54.220.18]] 20:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

== Feedback: Zombies! ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#World Generation|World Generation]]</div>
I would like to suggests that all players to consider the fact that if there's a necromancer tower near you. Your kingdom will most likely be siege by various undead animals. Please put this note in for future new players. I have suffered the consequence by these unholy beings slaughtering my 22 little workers, 2 of which being children. RIP Rocksgrope. --[[User:Stagskull|Stagskull]] ([[User talk:Stagskull|talk]]) 07:04, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

==Mouse wheel==
Under [[DF2014:Quickstart_guide#Surveying_the_Area]] it talks about keys. I noticed that when I scroll my mouse wheel up/forward it zooms out and down/back it zooms in. Is this a proper way to interact with the map? [[Special:Contributions/184.145.18.50|184.145.18.50]] 20:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Add a bit more ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Refuse|Refuse]]</div>
Add a bit more --[[Special:Contributions/69.112.13.248|69.112.13.248]] 00:43, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

:Such as? For a quick start, that's all you need to know about refuse. Remember that this is the quickstart guide - here to give you a quick start with only the minimal amount of critical information. If you need in depth documentation, you can look up everything on the relevant wiki pages. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 11:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Example screenshot of search ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Choosing a Good Site | Choosing a Good Site ]]</div>
There should be an example screenshot of the search window for new players to understand how the interface works better. --[[User:Enzanki ars|Enzanki ars]] ([[User talk:Enzanki ars|talk]]) 22:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Thanks! ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Feedback | Feedback ]]</div>
Most helpful.

One confusing area: the pictures illustrating the initial setup in the Room Dimensions section.

Please edit the picture to include labels, so that it actually *is* clear which area is which. Also, it isn't too clear where in that image the fortress connects with the surface. --[[Special:Contributions/109.202.107.10|109.202.107.10]] 10:31, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

== Feedback: Problems? ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Workshops|Workshops]]</div>
I've followed all of the instructions and have a ton of architect dwarves and everything is set up like it should be, but my dwarves aren't building workshops. In the "q" menu it says "Waiting for construction... Construction inactive." Maybe add more troubleshoots, I can't possibly be the only one having this problem. --[[Special:Contributions/50.35.12.66|50.35.12.66]] 00:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

:Only a few workshops require the [[architecture]] labor to be enabled for their construction. Most instead only require a labor specific to the kind of work performed at the workshop. For instance, to build a kitchen ({{k|b}}-{{k|w}}-{{k|z}}), you need to enable the [[cooking]] labor for at least one dwarf. The chosen dwarf does not actually need to have any [[skill]] in cooking; only workshops that actually do require Architecture have any measure of building quality, and even that has no effect on how well they function. If you choose an unskilled dwarf to construct the workshop, remember to disable the labor afterwards so he doesn't then try to make use of the workshop.

:Another thing that might be wrong is for construction to have been interrupted for some reason. Common causes are animals (domestic or otherwise) wandering over the construction site, dwarves getting spooked by threatening encounters, or the selected building materials becoming inaccessible for some reason. If so, you should resolve the issue ([[pasture]] animals, wait for the threat to pass, send [[squad]]s, etc.) and then {{k|q}}-{{k|s}} over the workshop in order to resume construction. If all else fails, you can {{k|q}}-{{k|x}} the workshop to deconstruct it (instantaneous if it hasn't been built yet) and attempt to build it at a different location. --[[User:Rriegs|Rriegs]] ([[User talk:Rriegs|talk]]) 17:03, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

::I've added explicit mention of the need for workshop labors to be enabled in order to construct workshops. The other possible problem (suspended construction) and its solution was already mentioned in the [[Quickstart guide#Workshops|Workshops]] section. --[[User:Rriegs|Rriegs]] ([[User talk:Rriegs|talk]]) 18:40, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

== Feedback: Doesn't describe how to haul dwarves and supplies inside ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Strike The Earth!|Strike The Earth!]]</div>
This section's first paragraph states that "you will want to get all your dwarves and supplies inside a protected area as quickly as possible." Wise words.

But the section doesn't describe how to do that. It only describes how to designate an initial entrance and room. This is confusing for readers who expect that the section is about getting dwarves protected as fast as possible. --[[Special:Contributions/216.114.117.77|216.114.117.77]] 01:11, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

:Clarified. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 19:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

== Feedback: UI (priorities/diplomacy?) ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Choosing what to sell and what to buy|Choosing what to sell and what to buy]]</div>
Hi! Thanks for the lovely quick start guide, however it assumes that I have any idea how to interact with trader. I have no idea what has happened just now, just some lines of text were shown, no trade was done, could not set the priority (assuming it is my priority) and then they just left... maybe next year lol --[[Special:Contributions/77.247.162.32|77.247.162.32]] 00:41, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
:There has been a link to the trade page for a while now. I reorganized the text a little. [[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 19:25, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
::There's no mention, here or on the trading page, of the negotiation screen that pops up where you set priorities for importing goods etc. I think this was a [[diplomat]]? But it says they should only show up once you have a baron...
::It happened to me too, and as an inexperienced player I was confused that it wasn't mentioned. [[User:Tme5|Tme5]] ([[User talk:Tme5|talk]]) 19:22, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
::: It is the [[trade agreement]]s that are negotiated with [[outpost liaison]] or foreign trade representatives\diplomats. It is mentioned on the [[Trading#Trade_Agreements_and_Liaisons]]. I agree it could be improved. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:38, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

== Feedback: Navigating through menus ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide# Common UI Concepts | Common UI Concepts ]]</div>
You should write where should I expect to not use arrow keys and how to navigate through main menu. I was also confused with the number of pre-set controls configurations in lazy newb pack. --[[Special:Contributions/37.248.155.248|37.248.155.248]] 10:26, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

== Feedback: needs more depth ==

<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">Section: [[DF2014:Quickstart guide#Surveying the Area|Surveying the Area]]</div>
. --[[Special:Contributions/173.79.11.244|173.79.11.244]] 19:06, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

== Created a PDF Version ==

I have created a PDF version of the Quickstart guide page for offline use, for users with poor internet connection or limited data.  It is largely a copy-paste of the article, arranged in a way that is cleaner than the "Printable Version" of the pages, and includes the images.  Would it be a good idea to upload it on the page, and how would I go about adding a link to it?

[[User:AlastríonaCatskill|AlastríonaCatskill]] ([[User talk:AlastríonaCatskill|talk]]) 21:51, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

== Feedback: stone stockpile? ==
<div style="color:#888;padding-left:2em;">"While the wheelbarrows are being built, select your stone stockpile with q and use w to increase "Max Wheelbarrow" to 3 (the maximum)."</div>
When/where should a stone stockpile be created? By this point, the guide suggests ''not'' including stone in a general purpose stockpile, but never suggests when/where to create stone stockpile. 

[[User:Qwiption|Qwiption]] ([[User talk:Qwiption|talk]]) 02:59, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

== Feedback: dining hall furniture ==
Guide describes construction 4 tables and 8 thrones for dining hall, however only one dwarf can make use of a table no matter how many thrones are placed around it, so this furniture layout doesn't function as intended.

== Updating to v50 ==

AFAIK, it's yet to be seen how much Classic will resemble the new Premium versions, and hence how much of this material will be made completely redundant by the tutorial. What kind of purpose would we see this page being?
* update it and keep it as our own tutorial?
* retire it and try to merge useful pointers into [[Dwarf fortress mode]]?
* change it to be a "beyond the tutorial" guide? or an accompaniment to it? 
BTW I haven't actually messed around with the new tutorial yet so I'm not sure what it covers. [[User:Tme5|Tme5]] ([[User talk:Tme5|talk]]) 13:41, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Side note: Going by [https://youtu.be/hBA4knAYKvM?t=120 this video] the interface will be identical in function. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)