Editing v0.31 Talk:Cave-in

== Cave-in sand ==
I created a cave-in to get a terrain tile of sand to level -100 (or so), to set up an efficient glass making operation using magma furnaces. When the sand tile reached the bottom floor, it turned into sandy clay (or loamy sand or something, I don't really remember) and couldn't be used for sand gathering. Should I add this to the article or should I wait for someone to confirm this? I couldn't find a page that details the correct etiquette on this wiki. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 13:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's sort of a known behavior, to the extent that it was known back in version 40d. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::I'll put it in the article. It would've helped me, so it can't be that out of place. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 13:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:If there is useful information that you know of that isn't in an article, add it.  That is etiquette :).  If you add it and it looks out of place someone will probably improve it at some point. Obviously, making sure it's confirmed by someone else is important, and also don't put in theories on a whim, but otherwise, go for it. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

== Lack of cave-in? ==

In 31.03, I started digging and accidentally created several floors with no walls or supports between them:

Level X:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
.....
.░░░.
.░░░.
.....
</nowiki></div>

Level X-1 (floor below):
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
.....
.░░░.
.░░░.
.....
</nowiki></div>

The . is empty space, nothing below it. The ░ is floor (not wall) where my dwarves can walk around. There's no supports or walls holding the floors up, so why isn't level X falling?
:Ah, it was the stairs, which I did not mark. Turns out that up/down stairs function as supports between levels.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 14:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 17:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


== Init disabling ==

When you disable caveins in the init file, does that just mean that the bad effects of a cavein (killing dwarves, etc) are disabled, or does the material actually not fall? --[[User:Calculator|Calculator]] 01:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:It means cave-ins are disabled. That is, the material will not fall. Besides, sometimes killing dwarves is a good thing.


==Conflicts and questions==
From the page:
Any creature caught underneath or on top of the falling material is crushed and badly injured, if not killed.
Any creature caught directly underneath (on the same tile underneath) a cave-in is killed, no exception.

That doesn't make sense to me.  The first one agrees with my experience, the second doesn't.  I've (in 40d) seen constructions collapse directly on creatures and not had them killed. I'm removing the second one.

Does anybody know where the lava pump by cave-in went?  I cann't find it anymore.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure the first bit was intended to mean "in the general area underneath the cave-in", such that the cave-in dust would be able to knock it around. Also, are you '''absolutely''' certain you've seen a creature survive having a cave-in land directly on top of it, even in 40d? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, definitely. I had a setup that had Z+1 level with a bunch of floors, supported by a support that was linked to a lever.  When I pulled the lever, the floors collapsed on a party of orcs. (I think, I was using the orc mod).  I had forgotten that Z-1 was mined out, so when the support was pulled, the Z=0 floor collapsed down to Z-1.  The reason I remember was because all of a sudden I had 10 orcs in the middle of my fort!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 15:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Are you certain that '''all''' of the orcs were '''directly''' beneath the cave-in? Any that were off to the side could have easily been sucked down by the dust cloud. I ask because I've used constructed floor cave-ins in Arena mode (by using wall cave-ins to destroy the bridge above the upper-right area) and they instantly kill '''everything''', including bronze colossuses wearing full suits of adamantine armor (and even a squad of one hundred trolls, likewise wearing adamantine). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
::::Yeah, it was a single squad, and they were all below it when it was triggered (I had them boxed in, there wasn't anywhere else they could go.)  The floor that caved in was just constructed floor tiles, though, if you think that matters. Does multiple Z levels matter?  The floor that they were on collapsed down as well.  Maybe I'll have to see if I can reproduce it.  If you want to change the page around, go for it.  It seems like my experience is an isolated thing.  It also doesn't seem likely to be a 40d 2010 difference.  I just checked it by building a floor trap above ground (linked to a support) and designating meeting zones on the two different levels.  It doesn't matter if the dwarfs were in the middle layer or on the bottom.  All were killed instantly.  Who knows. I cannot reproduce it, so it must be a faulty memory!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:37, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

==Complicated shape of falling piece==
We need to make a cave-in trap and have two projects

1st. Support/floor stack:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▓╞+++++++++++++++++╡▓ - floor tiles, connected with bridges to solid ground
▓         I          
▓         I         
▓         I - support/floor/support stack
▓         I         
▓         I - support linked to lever/pressure plate
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
</nowiki></div>


2nd. Walls stack and single support:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▓╞+++++++++++++++++╡▓ - floor tiles, connected with bridges to solid ground
▓         ║ 
▓         ║ 
▓         ║ - walls above each other
▓         ║ 
▓         I - support linked to lever/pressure plate
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
</nowiki></div>

So, when you remove the support, both constructions fall down. But 1st falls several floors down (5 at the picture), while 2nd falls only 1 floor down and then it's pillar collides with bottom. Is there any difference in resulting damage made to poor invaders? The second one can be constructed much faster. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 09:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Caving-in the toplevel/terrain from inside ==

On the subject of Cave-Ins from the Inside, I'd like to add to the steps provided that one should remove the row of up-stairs on the borderline after the channeling exercise, as they hold up the floor above, despite there not being any floor directly over them. Of course, caution should advised especially if the cave-in will be very large, to avoid (or enjoy) the Fun.

== Cave-in onto SMR and constructions ==

I've noticed that cast obsidian falling onto constructed up stairs will not destroy the construction, but will settle on the level above, similar to constructed walls.  I would guess that constructed up/down stairs have the same effect.
Also cave-ins that land on natural floor or natural down stairs directly above a block of SMR will settle on it, but channeling out the tile so the surface is marked 'Magma flow' will allow cave-ins to drop through and vanish. If somebody else could confirm it then it would be useful to add to the main page. [[User:Dorf3000|Dorf3000]] 09:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

== Fight Report ==

I caved in a section of above ground terrain, and, when it showed up in a the fight report, it said "The miner is caught in a cloud of boiling magma!" I'm just a little confused. [[User:Taerh|Taerh]] 16:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
:Looking at the raws it appears the cloud of dust generated from caved-in stone/earth is considered a gas. The gaseous form of both soil and stone is called "boiling magma". From a mechanical point of view it makes sense but it leads to some strange messages in game. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 16:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==constructed wall==
-If a constructed (not natural) wall colapses in a cavein will the wall settle as is or will it turn into unmined stone?--[[Special:Contributions/89.121.176.82|89.121.176.82]] 06:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
-:It will revert to its building material. --[[User:Timrem|Timrem]] 07:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
-::At the moment of colaps or after impact?--[[Special:Contributions/89.121.176.82|89.121.176.82]] 08:18, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
-:::The two moments are one in the same as far as game time goes. Cave-ins don't actually fall, they just transport downwards as far as possible before running into something. The process takes a total of 1 frame. If you're wondering if it still deletes the things under it, it does. I think. --[[User:Introprospector|Introprospector]] 03:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 == Cave-in sand ==
 I created a cave-in to get a terrain tile of sand to level -100 (or so), to set up an efficient glass making operation using magma furnaces. When the sand tile reached the bottom floor, it turned into sandy clay (or loamy sand or something, I don't really remember) and couldn't be used for sand gathering. Should I add this to the article or should I wait for someone to confirm this? I couldn't find a page that details the correct etiquette on this wiki. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 13:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 96: / Line 90: @@
 I caved in a section of above ground terrain, and, when it showed up in a the fight report, it said "The miner is caught in a cloud of boiling magma!" I'm just a little confused. [[User:Taerh|Taerh]] 16:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 :Looking at the raws it appears the cloud of dust generated from caved-in stone/earth is considered a gas. The gaseous form of both soil and stone is called "boiling magma". From a mechanical point of view it makes sense but it leads to some strange messages in game. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 16:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
-== Cavein onto support ==
-A recent error in mining caused me to have a cavein down a z-level onto two different pillars. Both pillars survived, supporting the collapsed rock above them as they would if they were a natural wall. No units or items were present in this case, but I suspect that they would have survived, or only been affected by the dust from the surrounding tiles. I suspect more testing is in order here...
-Before:
-.....<br />
-.III.<br />
-.III.<br />
-..... <-Ooops, mined out more than I should have...<br />
-..S..<br />
-I.I.I<br />
-IIIII<br />
-<br />
-After:<br />
-.....<br />
-.....<br />
-..I..<br />
-..I.. <br />
-.ISI.<br />
-IIIII