Editing v0.31 Talk:Glass industry

How much of this should be copied from the 40d article? The only real difference I can see is that now sand is a trade good and can be chosen on embark. Otherwise, it seems pretty much identical. That being said, I don't see why we should say "Consult the 40d article, except sand is easier to get" if the goal is to create a stand-alone DF2010 section. --[[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 23:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==Okay, that flowchart doesn't work==
On Firefox 3.7, IE 8.0 and IE 9.0PP4, that flowchart doesn't work. I'd take a snapshot of it in chrome, and replace it with an image, if we all agree on that. Plus, it's never a good idea to use tables for that kind of stuff, because it is something the MagmaWiki skin can break. So? --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 18:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

The flowchart is incorrect too. It shows: "Wood industry" -> "Ashery" -> "Pearlash". The correct chart would show of course: "Wood industry" -> "Wood burner" (-> "Ash") -> "Ashery" (-> "Potash") -> "Kiln" -> "Pearlash" --[[Special:Contributions/83.119.189.36|83.119.189.36]] 21:28, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah... There's generally no point in using a table for this, other than text sizing. The arrows are images too, which causes all sorts of link trouble. If there's more of a consensus, we should just make a new one. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 01:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

==Masterwork?==

Are you joking? The article is hardly aesthetically pleasing , what with that broken flowchart. A flowchart which takes up half of the page space. Don't worry about changing the rating, though, I'll just upload my personal flowchart on the subject and replace it when I get home from work. It looks nice, and screwy tables won't break it. --Kydo 21:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
:Okay, there, a clean, ''functional'' and accurate flowchart. It looks a little intimidating, probably because of just how much stuff it contains. Any suggestions on how to make it look friendlier without detracting from it's detail? --Kydo 07:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::How about color coding the background of boxes for workshops, products and jobs? Slightly larger boxes might be more pleasing to the eye. And most of the boxes and lines positions vary a lot (e.g. the three 'Glass Furnace' boxes have different y-positions), this creates a disquitingly picture. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 18:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, I can see one mistake... it's "sand bag" + "rock crystal" = "crystal glass", not "pearlash" + "rock crystal" = "crystal glass".  I think the color coding is a good idea. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
::::To quote the article... ''"Producing crystal glass requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough rock crystals, a gem which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from traders will not work for producing crystal glass."'' ...and from the glass page... ''"Making raw crystal glass or crystal glass items is currently not functional. Despite rough rock crystals being available, the game will announce 'Needs glass-making rough gems"'' So, yeah, cryustal glass requires no sand, but it doesn't matter, because it's all bugged up anyways. Also, I agree to the suggestions to colour code things and increasing the box sizes. I shall do this now... Though exactly how the colour coding will work, I'm unsure, I guess I'll figure it out soon enough. --Kydo 05:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Okay, there, updated to a new version. Straighter, bubblier and colourized. Though it is ''technically'' a rather large image and needs to be seriously shrunk down for the page. I made it in MSPaint, which shrinks things poorly, and I don't feel like messign around with a more complicated program for just a rescale. Any other ideas? Or is it good like that? --Kydo 06:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Aren't images a bad choice for charts? They constitute an impractical protocol if you ever need to change the chart and they '''will''' break page usability on "extreme" screen resolutions. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 12:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Maybe we should just cut the flowchart entirely, because they make the game feel like work and are so complicated that they don't look good to someone no matter what they look like. --JohnnyMadhouse (Not signed in)
:::::::The original flowchart, which was a really fancy table, broke basically every time this page got messed with, especially with the move to the new version. As a result, it made it more difficult to edit the page in general. It also increased the overall size of the page substantially. Using an image, like every other flowchart on the wiki, is a better solution, because ''anyone'' can open up paint and make a flowchart, and images can be moved around easier without breaking everything. Also, Dwarf Fortress ''IS'' work. It's fun work, but work none the less. The idea of the flowchart is to display the whole picture more clearly than words can explain. --Kydo 15:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-How much of this should be copied from the 40d article? The only real difference I can see is that now sand is a trade good and can be chosen on embark. Otherwise, it seems pretty much identical. That being said, I don't see why we should say "Consult the 40d article, except sand is easier to get" if the goal is to create a stand-alone v0.31 section. --[[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 23:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
+How much of this should be copied from the 40d article? The only real difference I can see is that now sand is a trade good and can be chosen on embark. Otherwise, it seems pretty much identical. That being said, I don't see why we should say "Consult the 40d article, except sand is easier to get" if the goal is to create a stand-alone DF2010 section. --[[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 23:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 ==Okay, that flowchart doesn't work==
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :::Well, I can see one mistake... it's "sand bag" + "rock crystal" = "crystal glass", not "pearlash" + "rock crystal" = "crystal glass".  I think the color coding is a good idea. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 ::::To quote the article... ''"Producing crystal glass requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough rock crystals, a gem which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from traders will not work for producing crystal glass."'' ...and from the glass page... ''"Making raw crystal glass or crystal glass items is currently not functional. Despite rough rock crystals being available, the game will announce 'Needs glass-making rough gems"'' So, yeah, cryustal glass requires no sand, but it doesn't matter, because it's all bugged up anyways. Also, I agree to the suggestions to colour code things and increasing the box sizes. I shall do this now... Though exactly how the colour coding will work, I'm unsure, I guess I'll figure it out soon enough. --Kydo 05:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
-:::I stand - or type - corrected.  I guess my confusion was the thought that the rock crystal acted as a better purifier than the pearlash, whereas it's actually "just" a specially-pure chunk of solidified sand, as it were. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:35, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 :::::Okay, there, updated to a new version. Straighter, bubblier and colourized. Though it is ''technically'' a rather large image and needs to be seriously shrunk down for the page. I made it in MSPaint, which shrinks things poorly, and I don't feel like messign around with a more complicated program for just a rescale. Any other ideas? Or is it good like that? --Kydo 06:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 ::::::Aren't images a bad choice for charts? They constitute an impractical protocol if you ever need to change the chart and they '''will''' break page usability on "extreme" screen resolutions. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 12:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 ::::::Maybe we should just cut the flowchart entirely, because they make the game feel like work and are so complicated that they don't look good to someone no matter what they look like. --JohnnyMadhouse (Not signed in)
-:::::::The original flowchart, which was a really fancy table, broke basically every time this page got messed with, especially with the move to the new version. As a result, it made it more difficult to edit the page in general. It also increased the overall size of the page substantially. Using an image is a better solution, because ''anyone'' can open up paint and make a flowchart, and images can be moved around easier without breaking everything. Also, Dwarf Fortress ''IS'' work. It's fun work, but work none the less. I mean, come on, it's resource management and menu manipulation. The idea of the flowchart is to display the whole picture more clearly than words can explain. When I was learning to play the game, I found I only needed the articles for specific details, and found flowcharts to be substantially more useful than the rest of the page. --Kydo 15:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::The original flowchart, which was a really fancy table, broke basically every time this page got messed with, especially with the move to the new version. As a result, it made it more difficult to edit the page in general. It also increased the overall size of the page substantially. Using an image, like every other flowchart on the wiki, is a better solution, because ''anyone'' can open up paint and make a flowchart, and images can be moved around easier without breaking everything. Also, Dwarf Fortress ''IS'' work. It's fun work, but work none the less. The idea of the flowchart is to display the whole picture more clearly than words can explain. --Kydo 15:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
-== A better way? ==
-Is it currently known if you can make a Magma Glass Furnace (or several) that's not on magma and use them for Collect Sand orders?  Other manager orders that got assigned there would be auto-canceled by the dwarves because the magma furnace isn't powered, and be re-assigned by the manager until it landed on a powered furnace.  If it's NOT currently known, I'll likely test before someone answers here anyway, I'm curious and getting tired of my dwarves using coke to make glass items when I have 4 magma glass furnaces powered currently. [[User:Gatherer818|Gatherer818]] 08:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
-:Tested, they can't be used, I haz a sad. [[User:Gatherer818|Gatherer818]] 09:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
-== Effective sand gathering ==
-The wiki currently only lists two methods of sand gathering, both of which are extremely poor.  Personally I make multiple glass furnaces and have a "Gather Sand" and "Make Glass" task on repeat for each of them.  This way the glassmaker can go from shop to shop making glass, and when he does, it'll que up someone to go get sand to replace that which was just used.  You only need 1 bag per shop and as long as you have a sufficient hauling pool, your glassmaker should never be idle.  The only real drawback of this is that you have to have multiple furnaces, which might be a minor annoyance if you're using magma furnaces, but otherwise it is ideal.  If your glassmaker ever outstrips your labor force due to long walk times, just add a few more furnaces.  Any thoughts on adding that as a third method?  -Taikei no Yuurei 17:32, 27 Aug 2011