Editing v0.31 Talk:Trap

I had a horse-mounted goblin swordsman pass over six layers of cage traps and at least 20 layers of stonefall traps without triggering any of them.  The prior year, against unmounted goblins, the traps worked fine (with reduced effectiveness compared to earlier versions, as has been reported), though I did have to flood the passage to kill them because three of them simply stopped moving and started shooting cats, waiting for dwarves to come for their pets, apparently.


I have had goats, goblins and alligators happily walk right through a stone trap bomb carpet of 3-5 layers (per person) and walk away wounded, but still walking. This certainly seems new.

Experiences with this? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe that´s because they deal only blunt damage (I think), which has been severely nerfed (because it seldom deals critical wounds and bleeding). I had the same experience with a goblin siege in year 2, which then also doomed my entire fortress (because I only got mildly trained soldiers with leather armor and copper weapons and marksdwarfs are bugged). <br> I think they will regain their usefulness, when damage types get balanced again. On the other hand, they really were quite overpowered before, considering the needed setup-time and material. ~ [[User:Felcis|Felcis]] 20:34, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Makes sense. I'm not even complaining - I like a challenge. The wooden spears, bows and arrows in my weapon traps btw may be a bit overpowered now.

== Spike Trap ==
Spike traps seem to be seriously dependent on weapon material now for their damage. The same 10x glass menacing spike will cause serious damage to a clothes-wearing dwarf (several red external and internal wounds), but will do nothing to a Goblin wearing copper armour. Well, after about 50 spikings all his fingers and toes were red, as was his nose and ears, and for some reason right lower leg, but the rest of him was fine - or was once he'd had time to heal the bruises.

Also, they appear to train people being attacked by them, as said Goblin pikeman became a pikemaster before I let him out, and was able to bat spikes out of the way before they touched him.--[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 05:01, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Someone posted this under spike traps:

`An often overlooked ability of an upright spike trap is that it also inflicts damage on a creature that falls onto it while it is deployed. 

From 40d that is not correct.  Did this change?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

:(I'm new at this wiki editing stuff I'm afraid, sorry if I don't format this right.)  
:Actually I'm fairly certain it was wrong that spike traps didn't damage things that fell on them in 40D as well. It wasn't actually 40D but I remember back when DC's combat reports worked a creature falling onto a deployed spike did indeed take a hit from the spike before it hit the ground. I cannot locate the quote, but I recall Toady specifically mentioning he built that into their functionality when they were implemented during the 2D to 3D update.  And I recently confirmed it to still be the case in version .31 prompting me to make the edit.  I've had dwarves accidentally fall into a pit that has a spike at the bottom, and it generates a one like combat report of the "spinning" spike striking the target before they hit the ground.  It should actually be easy to test now, if folks don't believe me.  Dig a pit 2 or 3 tiles deep put a spike trap at the bottom and pit some animal in there.  That should generate a combat report of the animal hitting the spike. Even without the combat log, it should be easy to identify the stab wound from the bludgeoning falling wounds. EDIT: Located the quote. "falling damage and corpse impalement for unretracted spike buildings" from the devlog, 10/16/2007--[[User:Greiger|Greiger]]

::No worries, good bit of sleuthing there.  I haven't played with the spikes much, but it makes sense.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:56, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

== Stonefall ==

It's my recollection that stonefall traps outright destroy the stone when they are triggered, so they always need to be reloaded with a fresh rock from somewhere else. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

:Well, try it out? Certainly not the case here, and never was IIRC. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 21:20, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::I second that. I always have the stone of the trap lying on it after it was triggered, so it was not destroyed. I´m not even sure if the dwarfes always need a different one, but I never payed close attention to that. ~ [[User:Felcis|Felcis]] 21:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I think the wisdom of the old ages on that was that the reloader picks the closest stone at the time he is tasked with the job. So if one guy reloads 6 traps he might well pick some of the stones right there - never checked really. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.32.216|92.202.32.216]] 02:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon ==

Hi guys, been playing DF for a long while but the improvements in the latest versions have inspired me to try to contribute a bit to the wiki for the first time. If you think any information is incorrect then feel free to shout out about it. [[User:Akkie|Akkie]] 18:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Can ARROWS be loaded in weapon traps, or only BOLTS?
--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 15:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
::Arrows used to be fine (40d) not sure about the newest version.  I don't use weapon traps that often, they generate too many body parts/mess for cleanup!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Cage Traps? ==

are they still as effective as in 40d?  the current article doesn't have anything on them  .-Slothen--[[Special:Contributions/99.96.100.228|99.96.100.228]] 21:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
: Yes they are: Dragons as well as colossi are no threat as long as you have cage traps at your entrance - wooden cages are still sufficient to contain them savely. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 21:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
::I was attempting to test all this in my latest fort. Can someone else please verify that this is still the case by writing in here that they've seen it happen. I know that titans(not sure about traditional megabeasts) have "trap avoid" tags and are not affected by stone-fall or weapon traps (I've tested that myself in a previous fort) but have yet to try to cage them.  -- [[User:Akkie|Akkie]] 15:01, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I can verify that Dragons are still captured, as of 0.31.06.  None of the Forgotten Beasts that I've encountered have been captured, though.  --[[User:Kyle Solo|Kyle Solo]] 19:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
::Forgotten beast safely traveled through a corridor with two cage traps in it. I hardly had time to build a floor above the stairway to the caverns, pheeew... Damn it was such a brilliant idea to get a Beast for my zoo! --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 13:52, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Ok thanks, I think I'll just say "Some rare creatures" are immune to cage traps to avoid any spoiler action. People can put all that spoilery stuff in the forgotten beast section! [[User:Akkie|Akkie]] 18:32, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::::i have several (20+) cage traps leading into the back entrance of my fort, and a forgotten beast was not captured by any of them. infact, quite the opposite; at the end of the long, narrow stretch of traps lay a crew of soldiers awaiting it. and after a bit of a skirmish, i've ended up with TWO 'dwarf cage's - should this be in the article, too? seems relatively important to me, and the poor soldiers trapped inside..--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 02:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Unconscious dwarves will fall victim to otherwise 'friendly' traps. --[[Special:Contributions/67.163.255.238|67.163.255.238]] 02:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
::::i didnt know that. both were severely injured, so them being unconscious was highly likely. should that fact be on the page?--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]


Cage traps require a certain skill to reload.  It is either mechanics or masonry (I'm assuming mechanics but haven't been able to verify yet since my traps aren't being used atm).  Would be nice to include this in the article.
:I'm 99% sure it's mechanics.  I'll edit it in, someone correct me if it's wrong.  --[[User:Kyle Solo|Kyle Solo]] 19:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

==taming==
I'm not sure who put the "taming isn't working" notice up, but I have tamed mountain goats caught in a trap in my latest fort. What evidence are you basing this on? Has anyone else not been able to tame creatures? Remember '''some''' creatures (with [PET_EXOTIC]) require the dungeonmaster (who seems to never turn up at the moment) to tame.

== Caging normally uncagable creatures? ==
I was able to cage a gremlin, but only after it was injured. Before that it just walked over my traps. Not sure if it was because it was injured, or because it was knocked on to the floor, or stunned... can other normally uncagable creatures be caught the same way? Someone confirm.
@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 ::No worries, good bit of sleuthing there.  I haven't played with the spikes much, but it makes sense.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:56, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
-Does anyone know if mechanism quality affects the lethality of spike traps attached to triggers? I know they do for normal weapon traps, but since I'm loading up my danger room this would be useful information.
 == Stonefall ==
@@ Line 60: / Line 58: @@
 Cage traps require a certain skill to reload.  It is either mechanics or masonry (I'm assuming mechanics but haven't been able to verify yet since my traps aren't being used atm).  Would be nice to include this in the article.
 :I'm 99% sure it's mechanics.  I'll edit it in, someone correct me if it's wrong.  --[[User:Kyle Solo|Kyle Solo]] 19:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
-Cage traps can be used to catch dwarves in a berserk rage. This can be useful when your Strange Moods are requiring items you do not have. Rather than have a violent murder occur, or having to starve him to death in the workshop. You are now free to be creative with how he meets his end (releasing amongst the elves is recommended). [[Special:Contributions/74.192.98.80|74.192.98.80]] 17:15, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
-Added a section to cage traps concerning webbed traps.  A cage trap with a GCS web on it will capture titans, FBs and clowns.  Tested on titans/fbs in 31.18.  Clown info is lore from forums but logical since all 3 of these types are trapavoid, nostun.  -Celem 29 Nov 2010
-:I cant find a relation between the materials and the traps. Are there any?
-::Material of a cage has no effect other than on its weight/value when used in traps.  When used as a prison I believe only metal works.  -Celem 2010-12-27
-How would i go about getting GCS webs on a cage trap? To my best knowledge they can't be physically placed there, so would i have to, somehow, get one to spit a web directly onto where i want the trap placed? - Manic Dementia 18 January 2011
 ==taming==
 I'm not sure who put the "taming isn't working" notice up, but I have tamed mountain goats caught in a trap in my latest fort. What evidence are you basing this on? Has anyone else not been able to tame creatures? Remember '''some''' creatures (with [PET_EXOTIC]) require the dungeonmaster (who seems to never turn up at the moment) to tame.
-:Taming seems to be working fine.  If you fix the appointment method for DM his functions all work fine too. (31.18) -Celem 2010.12.27
 == Caging normally uncagable creatures? ==
 I was able to cage a gremlin, but only after it was injured. Before that it just walked over my traps. Not sure if it was because it was injured, or because it was knocked on to the floor, or stunned... can other normally uncagable creatures be caught the same way? Someone confirm.
-Edit: looked around in the wiki a bit more. Turns out gremlins (as well as kobalds) can avoid traps, but will not always. It would be nice to have a list of creatures who can avoid traps. Can't find one. Also forgot to sign last time. --[[User:Peglegpenguin|Peglegpenguin]] 23:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
-:All creatures will trigger traps if they fall unconscious on top of them, including those with TRAPAVOID. This was rather famously used back in 40d to trap frog demons and tentacle demons, but '''not''' spirits of fire (due to them being un-knockout-able). All titans, forgotten beasts, and demons in version 0.31 have TRAPAVOID and are, like the spirit of fire of 40d and earlier, similarly immune to being knocked unconscious and are thus impossible to trap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
-The above no longer appears true....see note a few lines up under cage trap main entry.  re: web on cage will trap anything including fbs and titans.  i expect demons too - Celem 29 Nov 2010
-== Note for deconstruction ==
-Can we put a note about deconstruction of a weapon trap noting if you get the weapons back or not? I checked the wiki to learn this and there isn't that piece of information. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pathaugen|Pathaugen]]</small>
-:Yes.  You do.  Just like every other building or construction - you use parts to build it, you get the parts back when you un-build it.  But if it's destroyed by an enemy rather than deconstructed by a dwarf, the parts get damaged. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 22:34, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
-Added in intro. -Celem 2010-12-27
-== Determining if a snow/blood covered trap is loaded ==
-Is there any way to determine if a cage trap is loaded if it is covered with snow or blood (and therefore looks the same whether loaded or not?)--[[User:Peglegpenguin|Peglegpenguin]] 03:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
-: Press {{k|t}} (Check Building I{{k|t}}ems) and cursor over the trap.  A ''built'' cage trap will list the mechanism used to build it, with a {{Tile|[B]|7:0:1}} beside the name.  A ''loaded'' cage trap will additionally list the cage used to load it, with a {{Tile|[B]|1:0:1}} there too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 21:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
-::Added an intro note on this, thanks DeMatt. -Celem 2010-12-27
-::: this is especially annoying when you have vomit covered loaded traps. they look exactly like non-loaded ones, then once you check you find that its just vomit.
-:::Or if you have glass cages and you want to determine if they are forbidden or not!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
-== Mechanism Quality ==
-Does the mechanism quality have any effect other than how long it takes to construct the trap?  Does it effect reload time or damage/attack power, etc? [[User:Rembrandtq|Rembrandtq]] 22:56, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
-Mechanism quality is the most important factor in determining if a weapon trap succeeds in striking a target, it basically represents weapon skill.  added a note on this, but dont know if quality affects stone-fall traps, need some !!science!!  -Celem 2010-12-27
-== Stonefall crashing ==
-Has anyone else experienced crashing with stonefall traps? I am using version 0.31.17. My current game is heavily modded, but I haven't touched stones or the latest creature to spring the trap (mountain goat), so that should not have any effect. --[[User:Axussriddare|Axussriddare]] 16:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
-==Stonefall Data==
-is there data about the type of damage (blunt/edge), contact area and penetration capacity of stonefall traps like there's for the other weapons???--[[User:Kaos|Kaos]] 02:45, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
-==Weapon traps==
-I can make weapon traps with the specially made trap components, but it won't let me use normal weapons in them. After selecting mechanisms it just brings up a list of trap components, not a list of available weapons. Any idea why? --[[User:Nahere|Nahere]] 23:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
-:Are you sure the weapons are available (unforbidden, accessible)?  When you are selecting the weapons, hit '''x''' to expand the list and scroll up and down to see available weapons.  Check and make sure your building a weapon trap, not a upright spike/spear. Build 10 wooden training spears (ax/sword/whatever).  You should be able to put them into a weapon trap.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)