v0.31 Talk:Thought

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[edit] Effects of Thoughts

As of v0.31, some negative thoughts make the dwarf work much more slowly.  The dwarf will
continue to work for a time, presumably until the negative thought becomes unbearable, and 
then will go attempt to resolve the thought by eating, sleeping, drinking, or some other action.

Um... no. The thoughts do not cause the dwarf to slow down - the thoughts are a result of the pre-existing status, which is what both slows them down and causes the thought. That is, they get hungry or tired or whatever, and then they both slow down and have the bad thought about the cause. This is like saying that if a dwarf has a bad thought about losing their foot to magma, the bad thought is what burned their foot off.--Albedo 20:22, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. I was just going by observation... I hadn't even seen this string dump business. I saw there was no new article, and sought to get one started. Also, why not fix the mistake instead of making nice big comments detailing the error on the talk pages for both me and the article? Garanis 21:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, there are some very strange unhappy thoughts in that string dump. Gems such as: "has been attacked by a dead and still annoying acquaintance lately" and "had a terrifying nightmare about an army of the dead." I've never seen these, even in some terrifying fortresses. I don't think theres an reason to include everything in the string dump in these lists.Garanis 21:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
"By observation" is not a recommended nor perfectly reliable approach, especially not without independent confirmation. Adding "something" to a blank page is, actually, not better than if it's flawed and misleading, not for the newbie who's relying on it for their information. And I did fix it - I deleted it. And just now I fixed what you put in its place.
As for unusual thoughts, the wiki doesn't care so much what one individual has or hasn't seen, it only cares about what is useful to the community - and that's up to the users. I was just tossing it out as a suggestion. (And how many "terrifying fortresses" have you had so far in the new version? nm - rhetorical question - but one that leads us back to "independent confirmation", or the lack of it.) --Albedo 21:35, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of the semantic issues, the way dwarves handle thirst, hunger, and fatigue has changed. Unlike 40d, dwarves now wait to fulfill their needs. This fact should be represented somewhere. Maybe Thought isn't the best place for it. Should I wait for someone to independently verify that dwarves need food before I go start that article? Where is the best place to ask for independent verification?Garanis 21:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Well I do remember something in the dev plans about bringing back the old zombie attacks from the 2D version, I think that will be part of whatever he has planned, and that first thought was hilarious

One of the Happy Thoughts is "took someone to bed recently"? Surely this is a reference to carrying out healthcare duties and not truly as scandalous the article currently suggests. Should we amend?

There are much more thoughts than those in that list. We should make that list bigger. --Niggy 19:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Anyone thought about finding the values for each thought? I know that some vary based on preferences, but having a base value would be helpful. Also, Defacement now is a huge hit on happiness and is no longer divided by the number of masterworks. Every dwarf that has had a defacement in my games goes to miserable(0) until the thought goes away. With some having nearly a thousand master works, I doubt the old system of 1000/# of masterworks still applies. Can I get a Verification?

[edit] Personal Hygiene

I've also noticed the positive thought "had a nice bath recently", but I'm not sure where the dwarf could have possibly had it. Perhaps at my pond? Definitively not in the pond, there is no ramp or stairs in it.--Doub 08:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Outdoor ponds are definitely good for this (I've seen dwarfs do it), not sure about brooks or rivers w/o ramps. Further investigation required. I'm also not sure whether the dwarf needs to be able to physically get into the pond to take a bath.--Nimblewright 11:36, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Maybe it used Soap?-- 22:00, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Filling in the blank spaces =

  • "Was upset that a criminal could not be properly punished": A noble's mandate was not met, but the offender was able to avoid punishment
  • "Was irritated at having to haul somebody to bed lately": Dwarf doing the hauling has the trait "Doesn't like helping others"
  • "Was irritated at having to give somebody (food/water) lately": Dwarf doing the hauling has the trait "Doesn't like helping others"

21:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

"Complained about the draft lately." ?? I see this in early forts a lot, even if I have doors in place. Related to a dwarf who doesn't like it having to go outside but not being cave adapted yet?

In this case, "draft" refers to conscription into the military. --Quietust 22:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

tired of drinking the same old booze lately why???

recieved water today -- I'm not sure if this happens every time.

also, does a dorm not count for the beds within for not sleeping in a bedroom?

[edit] Miscarriages Caused By Moods?

In a recent fortress(one which has already crumbled), a melancholic female dwarf had the 'had a miscarriage recently' thought. I do not believe she was in the military, and even so the military had seen no greater threats than the occasional kobold. I believe this means that moods can cause miscarriages, or at least merits investigation. Calite 01:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Is it possible that the reverse is what happened? The dwarf had a miscarriage and that caused the melancholy? --Twilightdusk 05:07, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Military thoughts

Two unhappy thoughts I currently have that are not in the list:

  • Was grumbling about long patrol duty lately
    My one-squad military is on a continuous training cycle, requiring 7 of 10 dwarves at all times (but they've seen no action yet). I guess this can be brought on by being required to serve 2 months in succession, since 5 or 6 of the 10 are complaining, but I don't know what else might modify it.
  • Has complained about the draft lately
    Just one of the 10 has complained, no idea what makes him so special - maybe in part that he has a non-military skill higher than any of his military skills?

What quality criteria must be met to include these in the list? Hv 08:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] defacement

"She has suffered the travesty of art defacement." This related to the announcement "a masterwork of Urist McWeaponsmith has been lost" - I'd marked all the copper and bronze weapons to be melted, to encourage the reactionaries to pick up something better. Hv 23:28, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Melting/Atom Smashing/!!Magma!!ing masterwork items of any sort pisses off the creator from what I've experimented with. Best thing to do is either forbid the item from being used or trade it off at the depot to get rid of it. If you have a problem with thefts, throw the masterwork (junk) in a pit and build a wall over it. Just remember to keep it forbidden so some military dwarf doesn't want to equip it. 19:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Just got the Message that something from Urist McBonecarver was lost but all he ever made that could have been stolen or got destroyed are bone bolts. Does this really give an unhappy thought when a stack of masterwork bone bolts gets destroyed/stolen? Did this happen to somebody else before? Ashameron 17:11, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Most likely a masterwork bone bolt was fired at a target, missed and left the map without dropping to the ground. This counts as if it had been "stolen" and does generate a bad thought. I am unsure if a stack of 5 masterwork bolts can generate 5 bad thoughts if they *ALL* miss... but I have seen this. --Kalon 22:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Rescue

One of my militia dwarves was injured to the point where he couldn't move (the idiot fell asleep when I sent him to kill a cougar), and he had to be dragged back to the hospital. He now has the thought "was rescued recently", which seems to be missing from the list. I assume it's positive.

[edit] Decay of pet/loved one

From my habit of atomsmashing any and all immigrant pets on arrival I've noticed that anyone who thus lost a pet gets the "forced to endure the decay of a pet" thought. I've not experimented with treating dwarves thus, but this suggests that the scope of the "forced to endure decay" thought is broader than merely being exposed (or even there being present) a rotten body.t

I am not sure but i think as long as the pet is not given a spot to rest/be remembered (that is a coffin with the according function enabled or an engraved slab) this thought will be triggered, as normaly (that is without the DAS) there should be a body present to rot. So to counteract this unhappy thought one might need to build a slab for the pet. Ashameron 20:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
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