v0.31 Talk:Military

Militant Civilians

I am verily confused. Is it possible to create squads which act like civilians unless activated? I don't want them to train, but to do their normal duties, while remaining nominally a squad. AbuDhabi 18:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

From what I've seen, in some cases squads do only activate when given orders, then go back to their civilian roles when the orders are canceled. I think what you'd want to do is define no orders in the Schedule screen (or just keep them in the Inactive alert level, which has no orders by default), then give them direct move or kill orders through the Squad screen. They should activate when you give the order, then go back to their civilian duties when you cancel their orders. On the schedule screen you can also tell them to either wear their military clothes when inactive or wear civilian clothes and only equip military clothes when active. --Valdemar 18:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I have them set to Inactive, but all they do is Individual Weapon Drill, completely ignoring civilian work such as making stuff and building workshops. AbuDhabi 07:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

At least I think I did. This is somewhat confusing, and I need to switch booted OSes to run DF. AbuDhabi 07:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Military Guide

This Something Awful post has a treasure trove of information on how the military screens work. If someone could work on editing it into the page (with proper attribution at the bottom, of course), that would be excellent. 76.84.96.216 05:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Wish I could but SA has reverted to needing an account to see the forum again. If you mind posting the relevant information here I'll be glad to sift through it and add what we can. KaelGotRice 07:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we credit CC with that guide? Unless you are the original author. I don't know what's considered appropriate here. --Freeze 15:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Arsenal Dwarf not appearing?

No matter what I do, I can't get the Arsenal Dwarf to show up on the nobles screen, iv'e tried everything, even turning his poulation requirements to 1. It could be a bug, but I really don't want to lose this fort, anyone have any help?24.255.86.193

I had this problem too, but the position just now opened up for me. The only thing I can think of that might have caused it would be I drafted another dwarf to my military, for a total of 5 soldiers. -Soronhen 06:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

OK turns out they pick up equipment without an arsenal dwarf, boy do I feel dumb now24.255.86.193

Keep in mind that although arsenal dwarves will not appear until certain criteria is met (number of soldiers? population? dunno), until they arrive you do not need them. The page's information has been updated to reflect this. --Retro 04:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Conglomerating + Full Page Overhaul

Station and routes don't need an individual page each; they're just stubs. Added them here, going to redirect the old pages here as well. --Retro 23:45, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

More conglomerating - reading over the military guide page it seems like the latter could easily be moved into the main military page, with a bit of formatting. I'm going to start this shortly (though I won't touch the guide itself yet); if anyone has other thoughts this is probably a good spot to discuss. No harm reverting if it comes to that anyhow. --Retro 01:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

DONE! There is still some stuff to do, but I've made note of what needs to be expanded using hidden notes. Notably we need more info in teaching. Hopefully the quick guide has served its purpose now. --Retro 05:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Added the beginnings of an FAQ; will be going in and adding screenshots of various military menus later tonight. It'll help as a point of reference. --Retro 17:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Under 'Forming Squads'

"No dwarves can be assigned under your militia commander; he is a squad of his own."

Does this mean that no additional dwarves can be assigned to his squad? If so I am confused. I have a squad formed, with nine dwarves, led by my commander in slot number one....--BloodyThorn 09:48, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm also confused - My 1st squad (containing militia commander and 2 dwarves under him) seems to work just fine. (Well, fine-ish. They have trouble training, shooting goats or feeding themselves, but I think thats just my knowledge of the new military system...) --Mrchinchin25 12:07, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the validity of that statement myself, since I can assign dwarves to him, though it might not be working. I think this might have to be changed to "Assigning dwarves under your militia commander will not work, though it might be a bug" if that was his intent, since the military system seems like it allows you to assign dwarves to him. The reason I'm saying this is because if you can't assign dwarves under him the military screen shouldn't allow you to do so, whereas if it's bugged it would allow it.(Note, my knowledge of the military system isn't great either, as my dwarves have gotten stuck trying to train a lot) --Ramperkash 16:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC+2)

I found that when editing his squad I could only replace the commander and not add additional dwarves, but if nobody else is noticing that, I'll just take it back out --Retro 16:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

This appears to be incorrect. Doctorzuber 19:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It might just be an isolated bug. --Ramperkash 15:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC+2)

Everybody inside

To replicate the familiar behavior from 40d of ordering all your dwarves inside you first must define a burrow using w,a,enter. Use the tools to select your entire fortress except for your main entrance and any Template:L you may have in store for potential invaders. As your fortress grows you will need to periodically update this burrow definition.

Next, go to the alerts menu with m,a. You already have one alert mode declared of active/training. Set this as the active alert status. When you want all dwarves to stay inside return again to this menu m,a and move over to the right to activate your burrow. With this active (green A) all your dwarves will be restricted to staying inside your fortress.

Squads with orders are exempt from burrow restrictions. Simply order a squad to move or kill and they will do so without any need to set up anything fancy.

I'm slightly afraid of the main wiki page right this second, too many topics to try to muck through all of that just this second. I'm leaving this here for anybody who wants an easy tip to replicate familiar 40d behavior. If so desired you're welcome to copy this information into the main wiki page and edit it as necessary. I do however ask that you leave this here unchanged for the time being since I intend to be adding to it as I figure out some more easy methods of surviving in the new military. Doctorzuber 19:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Not planning on changing/moving this or anything like that, just pointing out that this material is basically already included in the main page. But this could be handy for anyone looking for a stepping stone to figuring burrows out. --Retro 20:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I was half thinking I might put together a survival guide of sorts for the new highly impenetrable system that is the military now. But with how quickly the wiki is shaping up that idea is quickly becoming irrelevant. Perhaps this text might be used better by merging it into an appropriate page somewhere, possibly with some revision. Doctorzuber 19:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Information Overload

Given the enormous amount of new options with this new system I think it may be a good idea to consider breaking this down into more manangeable pieces so it's not quite so overwhelming. I'm not saying any changes right this second, but once we get a slightly better handle on all the different options that are available in the new system (despite it's awkwardness and buggyness) I think we're going to have a rather enormous bloated looking page here if we don't start sorting this out. Squads for example, which currently redirects here could very easily have an entire page to itself simply to fully explain all of the options available in the squads menu itself. Doctorzuber 19:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

It is indeed quite a packed page, but at the same time, squads are the military. Aside from teaching and expanding the FAQ (which could use its own page later, I might do that tonight) I doubt much more will be added. It's basically Section 1: Understanding how to make your military/squads, 2: How scheduling and alerts work aka how to make your squads do things, and 3: What they can do. It's not really possible to segregate squads from the military because they're the same thing. You'd end up with a stub page saying like "A squad is a group of soldiers. Click <<military page link>> for more info." Moving the FAQ and making training into its own training/teaching page is really all that could be done. --Retro 20:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Even so, I think this is an idea that should at least be considered. My plan here is to separate this out into squads, military and probably schedule as well since each of those topics is a fairly meaty amount of subject material in their own right. These would naturally have to reference back to each other, but I think with a little bit of work we can come up with a much cleaner wiki from the effort. I've taken the liberty to write up the beginnings of a squads page which I have stashed on the Talk:Squads page for the time being. Doctorzuber 21:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Forgive me for failing to understand, but it doesn't get more complicated than squads = the military. You can't separate them purely because they have different names by saying 'even so.' I can understand making equipment/uniforms (when the section is expanded on) and the FAQ into new pages, or even some of the scheduling/alert info (though a lot would have to stay), but you can't remove squads because then there is no military. Squads are the military. Your military does not exist without squads. I can't make this any clearer. Yes, this page has a lot of info, but all of it is essential to making, preparing, and using your squads. IMO wait for a larger consensus; you can't move the 'how to make your squad' info without rendering the article useless. The rest still isn't large enough to have its own page yet. I'm going to be working on cleaning this up a bit probably later tonight at which point some of it (but not 'squads') will probably be ready to own its own page. Right now, though, nothing is strong enough to stand on its own. --Retro 21:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I am moving nothing, I created and stashed in the talk:squads area for the time being. use that information as you wish. It's just an idea. Doctorzuber 22:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Having gone over the material you added (and reformatted it a bit to fit in better), I now agree with you - I was unaware that there was more than one command that could be given in a squads menu and figured the kill command wasn't enough to justify a page. Thanks for showing me the light there, and sorry if I sounded aggressive - I was kind of confused. IMO this is how the page should be divided: The formation of squads and equipment should stay, as should the notes about passive and active control. The active defense stuff should be moved into the Squads page as-is and replaced with a shorter, less-specific blurb; ditto the passive stuff on alerts/scheduling. When we have stuff on instruction and demonstrations it should be given a page too. Then the FAQ can get a page of its own, and we can leave the bugs. --Retro 00:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Wait wtf the last hour of my reformatting just disappeared. How in the hell? I had the page reserved! --Retro 00:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Noted your changes and managed to find a copy of my large reformatting job. Going to incorporate your changes into that. The page should make a lot more sense now. --Retro 00:53, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for calming down and taking a serious look at my suggestion. Doctorzuber 01:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Since there's a good chance you're actively editing as I type this I'll avoid touching the main page right this second. Here is another bug just came to my attention. Doctorzuber 01:14, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Accessing Pri/Assignments m, e, U, P when no squads are formed causes a crash.

I was, thanks! We now have a squads page and a scheduling page (still working on redirecting the latter). Now we just need to remove some of the detail from this page and add links (I'll be getting on that shortly). Oh, and I'll add this bug to here and the Squads page. --Retro 02:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Believe we're done for a while. Going to add another page with a very, very slow step-by-step walkthrough of each individual military/squad screen (with pictures!) later. But not today. --Retro 03:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I've been quietly watching your edits. I must say, I like the direction this is going. I think it's much improved. Doctorzuber 03:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Marksdwarf/Hunter bug

I'm not sure whether I'm doing anything wrong and whether to post this here or not, but I've had a lot of trouble working with my Marksdwarf/Militia Commander/Hunter I'm embarking with. I've changed him to just being a Militia Captain but came up with kind of the same problems (Didn't think it would work, but tried it anyway).

Firstly, when I do manage to get my dwarf hunting (which I never could achieve after him trying to train once) he tends to stop doing the job once he runs out of bolts, despite there being more bolts in storage, he defaults to "No job" and sits around my meeting area. I could only 'fix' this by going into the squads menu, giving him a move order, and cancelling it again, which would result in him fetching more bolts and starting to hunt again.

Secondly, after making him some leather armour, including a leather cloak I forgot isn't in my uniform, he ran back and forth to pick it up, drop it, attempt to go train, change his mind and repeat. This wasn't solved by simply adding the cloak to his uniform, and was 'fixed' by forbidding the cloak in the end. In my next fort I soon discovered that this is not unique to cloaks, and not even to items not included in my uniforms, as he started dropping his crossbow to go train.

Lastly, I just can't get him to hunt right again, I managed it once but it failed after trying to get him to train, and couldn't manage to get a dwarf to hunt in newer forts.

Are these known bugs perhaps, or am I doing something wrong? PS Not used to using a wiki, so let me know if I should be doing something differently--Ramperkash 13:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

All three of these are known bugs and a huge pain, but that's the first time I've seen a workaround for the running out of bolts bugs - thanks for the tip; I'll add it to the FAQ. And you're using the wiki just fine! --Retro 17:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, you know whether it's the hunter job bugging or the marksdwarf? Or just the combination? --Ramperkash 17:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably it applies to 'ranged attacking' in general. Question noted/added here. --Retro 17:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I think (not completley sure yet) that the problem is that ammunition, once it's been assigned, never gets re-assigned, even if it's removed from the hunter / marksdwarf's list. Look in the ammo menu - if there is a specific pile of bolts assigned they seem to (sometimes, at least) get used, but if it's generic nothing happens. So if new bolts are created they may get used, but if they aren't, or you attempt to reallocate them then nothing happens. Oops, forgot to sign. Riedquat 20:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

To get your Hunter hunting again when he runs out of bolts, just go into the (m) military menu, hit (f) for amunition, select your hunter(s), press (c) for add item, then set the new quantity of ammo for their use 12:07, April 2010

Expedition Leader can not be a squad leader

I've noticed that the Expedition Leader is not available to serve in the militia. I saw this because I was testing a few things using new forts with the seven dwarves and when I tried to form a squad only six were listed. I named my leader to easily spot him in the crowd and confirmed that it was the expedition leader that was missing from the list. I cannot confirm if this holds true later when promoted into a Mayor. Doctorzuber 19:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

This may be what I had seen that caused all the confusion in Forming Squads higher up on this page - I had assigned my expedition leader to be the militia commander via the nobles screen, and I couldn't seem to pull any other dwarves into his squad. That'd explain some things if that was it. --Retro 21:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I have to adjust what I said earlier. Apparently he can serve in the militia, just not as the leader of any squad. Doctorzuber 01:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, that then properly explains the problem Retro had, I assume it's a bug that the Expedition Leader can be a militia commander. --Ramperkash 18:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if it's a bug or if it's intended. but I did make a note of it on the page which will hopefully prevent any further confusion on the matter. Doctorzuber 18:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

As of 0.31.03, I'm able to assign expedition leader as militia commander, so perhaps this bug has been fixed? At least it appears that you can assign the leader in the nobles screen. Not sure if he/she actually acts as a militia commander. 24.68.132.208 22:59, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

If you wait a few seconds and return to the nobles screen I think you will find that your expedition leader has already quit his job in the militia. If you try to assign him directly in the military menus (militia commander is position 1 of squad 1) you will not be able to. The bug is still around.^v0.31.03 --Doctorzuber 07:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Creatures category?

Why is this, the interface, and the FAQ in the Creature category?--Tarran 02:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Good catch; looks like the new military template has an improper link or something similar. I'll go fix that. --Retro 02:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

More pages to come, more work to be done

I looked through the 40d stuff and it looks like when Equipment gets moved out of the Squads page we should add stuff on specifics like weapons/armor there and notes on encumbrance and perhaps quality too. Also linked up the Soldier page to the Military template, which I think should be used for Heroes + the Champion info and the effectiveness of different soldier types (ie. swordsdwarf, marksdwarf, etc). Just a heads-up that that work still needs to be done eventually. I'll do what I can when I'm done my next batch of exams. --Retro 16:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Upcoming Bug Fixes

Copying and pasting an empty order onto a non-empty order causes a crash.
Going to the military-schedule-grid screen and selecting your inactive alert group causes a crash.
Accessing 'Pri/Assignments' (m, e, U, P) when no squads are formed causes a crash.

These three are marked as fixed for 0.31.03. Once 0.31.03 is released and these are verified I'll be sure to update the relevant pages. Doctorzuber 22:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)bity

Good work with all this bugfix stuff. I can't even profess to follow the bug-tracker in the slightest and am still playing .01 :P --Retro 02:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

no worries, I'm staying current with what's going on in the bug tracker, so I'll keep that one bit current here, otherwise my attention on the wiki has drifted elsewhere. Doctorzuber 03:49, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Archery

I can't seem to get my dwarfs to practice with crossbows. I have:

Assigned them equipment for archery (leather, ranged weapon of choice)
Assigned them the default Active/training schedule (active all the time)
Ammunition (arsenaldwarf as specific bolts they can use, 2000! of type bone).
I have two archery targets defined, one with them set to train at and the other with no defined training.

Here is what happens: The dwarfs will stand near the target that they are assigned to, either doing individual training or waiting for demonstrations. The dwarfs pick up equipment, but not the right equipment (two metal high boots when he should get leather and crossbow) The wiki says that archery targets are broken, but doesn't elaborate. I get the impression that somebody figured it out. How? Anybody? A military without marksdwarfs is really nerfed, especially vs elite goblin snipers!--Kwieland 16:17, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Equip Assignment Crash Bug

Crashed after assigning a new settler a position in a squad. The exact moment was when the dwarf was ordered to equip a training axe (of which was not available at the time it was assigned). Dwarves are still not training despite being on active/training squad duty and having sufficient equipment/uniforms, a barracks, and commanding officers, but I am assuming this is because of they have not run out of preferrable civillian jobs? Requesting clarification from more savvy analysts.

Congrats on trying to get the military working. I still find it doesn't do what I need it to do. Here is hoping for an update. I think the problem with the marksdwarfs training has to do with the inability to assign quivers as part of their equipment. I've never seen any of them pick up quivers. Anyone?

Do you have the squad assigned to train in the barracks? If you select the furniture that defines the barracks, you need to select the squad (+/-?) and then hit t to have them train there. Also, are they assigned to a burrow that is outside of the training area? Something to check.

I've found that dwarfs that don't have any specific equipment assigned will still go to the barracks and hang around. If you get this, check in the military menu, under the equipment tab. Under each dwarf it will say what equipment they are supposed to be wearing. Each piece should have a check mark by it. I've found it can take a few weeks (game time, probably depends on what your arsenal dwarf is doing) before the equipment is assigned. That is assuming you have enough dwarfs to warrant a arsenal dwarf.

I've found a bug too - just so you be careful. In the military menu, second line from the top under positions with the dwarfs selected will show what rank the dwarf is. I've had it show "Talented" but if I looked at the dwarf it was at "Expert". I don't want any "greats" so I try to micromanage that.

Another thing - under the equipment tab you can assign the dwarfs to wear armor over their clothes or not. It had the opposite effect than I expected, so try toggling it if your dwarfs go naked to get into their armor.

One last hint - I've found that having the schedule train for 12 months is fine if you have one less "required" dwarf than their are in the squad. Otherwise you'll need to toggle the alerts or else you'll starve your dwarfs.

My current problem is UN-ASSIGNING the soldiers. Wether they are assigned ACTIVE/TRAIN or the other alert, they are always training. If I delete the squad, they go into endless "No Job" even though they don't show up in the Idlers. If I delete the barracks the same problem exists. Anyone? --Kwieland 13:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

That's a known bug, and a pretty devastating one, if the dwarf in question had any important civilian skills. The only workaround I know of is, never mix civilian and military roles on the same dwarf. If you draft a dwarf into the military and start training him or her, it's for life. --Greycat 15:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I kinda figured as much. The other bug I detest is the fact that the dwarfs (to me) have no increases in strength/agility/etc. But I digress. I did figure out a work around to the "No Job" ex-army dwarfs. If you have military dwarfs that you accidentally removed from a squad with the "No Job" bug, if you assign them a squad, assign the squad to move to a location. Then, if you cancel that order, they seem to go back to training/etc as per their schedule. At least you don't have a wasted dwarf in that case.

Any ideas on the Marksdwarfs? I think I'm going to try assigning them to be hunters, and then recruit from there. Then they should have a quiver, at least.--Kwieland 16:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Food and Water

Either this page or the Squad page (or perhaps both) ought to be edited to include information on telling your military dwarves to carry food and water/booze by someone who has tested those features. --FunkyWaltDogg 15:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

My understanding/experience is that the setting you are referring to don't do anything now. They carry whatever they want, and as much food as they want, too. I expect the military to be buggy for a while until after the merge is somewhat complete. --Kwieland 13:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Endless individual training bug?

I currently have two wrestlers starving to death and dying of thirst in my barracks after never having come off individual training. I suspect it may have something to do with a couple of rhesus macaques that are running around my fortress and playing havoc with my dwarves jobs. The two dwarves have just stood in one place and not moved. They're not locked in or anything, have checked all the obvious stuff. The job just won't end, it can't be ended on the units menu and can't be ended by removing the dwarves from the military. Whilst I was typing this, one of the starving, dehydrated dwarves just as mysteriously decided to go to bed. Still starving and dehydrated. After standing in place and starving and dying of thirst for ages. :| Baffling. I think this might be a more rare bug but it should be looked into.

Edit: Said dwarf woke up, returned to their combat training. Still starving and dehydrated. And still, not technically in the military anymore. This is nuts :s

The only luck I've had is to make sure they are assigned to a squad, that their squad is assigned to an unactive alert, and that they are really part of the squad. Sometimes they get stuck in a weird state. For those, I issue the squad a move order and that sometimes helps.--Kwieland 16:40, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Deconstructing barracks

Does not cause military to stop training ever again at all. It is in fact the only way to get them to switch barracks it seems, as turning training off makes them still train at the old one 71.134.230.146 07:37, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Recreate your barracks. Adjust your schedule so that your soldiers stop training. Once they're all on "no job" you should be able to remove the barracks safely. I know this is an awkward workaround, but thanks to the new dwarven work ethic a lot of things are screwed up right now.^v0.31.04 --Doctorzuber 09:31, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

No I mean I never run into the no job through barracks deconstruction at all. I do it all the time 71.134.230.146 00:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I drafted to military four dwarves, gave them weapon and barrack and ordered to train. Oddly, their professions were still civilian - Armorsnith, Bove carver, etc. Then i wanted them to get back to their work, but switching squad to inactive didn't help, they were still practicing. Then i removed room state from armor stand - they became idlers with "No Job" state. Removing armor stand didn't help. Only after complete disbanding squad, removing dwarf from militia capitain noble and recreating squad from scratch they finally became Axedwarf, Macedwarf etc. proceded to their training and succesfully returned to civilian job after deactivating squad. --Peregarrett 09:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Forgetful Militia

I just figured out my militia and had my trained dwarves set up to be ready for the regular waves of Macaques, and even put in lots of effort to get them quality weapons (Turns out their weapons are the most valuable things we have). So the monkeys attack, and my dwarves are at their stations, holding them off. I order one dwarf to simply chase down and kill them one by one. He gets through two, is chasing the third down, and drops his weapon. Cancels retreive equipment because of a nearby Macaque, and then continues chasing it after stopping for a moment without a weapon, and won't STOP chasing it even when I cancel it's orders, order it to his high quality axe and then just remove him from the military roster. As a Macaque bee-lines for his axe, I order all the others to kill that one before it reaches it, and they, of course, drop their weapons and charge, and refuse to stop. Every weapon I owned was stolen because they don't know how to move and hold them, losing everything of value that I owned. >:(

Does anybody else run into this infuriating issue?