Editing 40d Talk:Noble

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[User:Idles|Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts.  Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there.  He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight.  "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant."  I have no idea what the requirements were.  I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years.  1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37.  In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63.  At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available.  Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.)  This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million.  Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger?  I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions.  I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)

== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain?  In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]).  After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party".  So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist?  [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free!  If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them.  (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']].  (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Surely, you've noticed that you are contradicting what's currently written on the [[Marriage]] page. So if you're positive about the game mechanics, you should update that page. If you're not positive, that's when the ''still not clear'' kicks in. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems that rhetorical questions and pointed hints are ineffective, so here is how to read the chart; we'll use the King/Queen and Consort as our example:

{| border="1" 
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

|- align="center"
!King
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|}

The position under "Noble" is the noble the chart is referring to.  The listing under "Quarters" are the quarters that ''that dwarf'' wants, the listing under "Dining Room" is the dining room that ''that dwarf'' wants, and so on. There is nothing to imply that one noble will be happy with a related noble's rooms - a Baron doesn't use a King's Throne Room or Dining Hall, an Advisor doesn't use the King's Office, and neither does ''any other noble''. So, both a King and his consort want'' their own'' Royal Bedroom, Royal Dining Room, and Royal Mausoleum, and in addition the King wants a Royal Throne Room for his Office. You can share rooms between royals, but that reduces the perceived value significantly.  I can find no reference to a "Law of Marriage" on the page - any assumptions not specifically listed or addressed in this chart are yours alone. If this is ''still not clear'', the requirements for individual nobles are clearly listed in their individual article pages: '''[[king]]''' and '''[[King consort|royal consort]]'''.  If that's ''still not clear'', I'd suggest asking in the forums, because this format doesn't have time or space to serve your special needs.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

: When you assign a bed to a [[Marriage|married]] dwarf, its automatically also assigned to his/her spouse. This is not a case of overlapping rooms, but of a single room belonging to two different dwarves. It's easy to see this by yourself by taking a look at your married dwarves and their bedroom arrangements.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

:: I did some thorough testing and updated the [[Marriage]] and [[Noble]] page accordingly. [[User:Albedo|Albedo]], I'm afraid that your comments on this topic were both rude and unhelpful. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Er, if I assign a bedroom to my Duchess, my Duke Consort does '''not''' use it (and his room requirements will show up in red). Married nobles are a very specific exception to the rule of spouses sharing rooms. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants.  My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town.  No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave.  A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony.  Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?).  Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess.  Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138.  Nothing happens.  Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort.  Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen.  When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000).  I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess.  I did just hit 200k exported wealth.  Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort.  Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.'  At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived.  I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM.  I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?) 

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french) 
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach &mdash; e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job.  The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something.  Angry relatives?  If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege.  Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles.  And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either.  Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.
::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point &mdash; you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled.<br/>
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors.<br/>
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves.<br/>
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration.  Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first.  If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger.  Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort.  Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles!  Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!'''  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]


::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves.  I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves.  Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s>  nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap.  He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants.  I subsequently set my population max to 50.  My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)


==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth.  I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms.  Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress.  I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc.  The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go.  Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden.  So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant.  Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves.  Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now?   [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke.  Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs?  Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby.  This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county.  So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires?  I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all?  Will they punish anyone?  Or just start throwing tantrums?  Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks.  On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
:::They will make more mandates and eventually go insane. I'm not 100% sure, but I strongly remember a baron going insane from his depression of not having any housing after about one year. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 13:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Their insanity is completely normal for any dwarf who's in a bad enough mood for a long enough time, though.  But yeah, failed mandates are relatively bad thoughts, and if they don't have proper quarters either, they'll probably snap at some point.  One of my most memorable games involved a tantruming Count beating his wife nearly to death, and he broke the King's arm when he tried to intervene (my roleplaying interpretation, anyway).  After the Countess consort died of her wounds, the Count went into a suicidal depression (melancholy) and threw himself down a well.  The fall didn't kill him and the water was too shallow to drown him, so he languished alone, with two broken legs, for months before succumbing to starvation.  DF can be a pretty brutal game.  --Arrkhal (not logged in)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted.  His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress.  The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>.  When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress.  The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed.  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

== Nobles: Now usefull ==

After long studies and several fortresses I finally found a way to use the nobles. Not as Farmers (that my legendary grower children would be...), but as a indeed valuable acquisition to your fortress.
The trick is simple. You give them nice houses. Outside, so their windows are not useless. And your nobles will be so grateful for this, that they will discover ambushes and in case of sieges, they will hold up the attackers, so your military can gather and charge that vile force of darkness!

I could though never test this, because my current fort does not attract any nobles, what seems verry odd to me... (167 dorfs & 582253 wealth) I guess it's because I have barely any underground tiles discovered. (Neither having any artefacts) --[[User:Laranto|Laranto]] 23:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


: And if the noble in question is the hammerer, he may even kill a few in the process. [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 10:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

:They're even more useful if you give them jobs using a utility like Dwarf Manager. My king's pretty good at mining!
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	::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.		::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.
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	::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq\|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq\|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)		::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq\|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq\|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)