Editing v0.31 Talk:Skill

== Access ==

Could somebody please, for the desperate n00bs (like myself), explain how to view skills at the beginning of this page?  I can find nothing about how to access the skills menu, only its applications.  Thank you.
: Done. [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:16, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

== Migrants ==

You can get migrants at any skill level, in any skill. I've got strand extractors before discovering adamantium, and legendary migrants before they've done any work.

== Teacher/Leader/Student ==

Are these related to the new military training system, or are they something else, like a general ability to learn? Or is the dwarf's learning ability based on his attributes? Would a dwarf with high leader skill be better at running a fortress, or is that for running a squad? --Kydo 14:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Toady said something about them being able to only teach weapon skills, and the general combat / dodging sort of abilities, so I don't think they have any other impact.

== Skill levels ==
Ok, I just took this from the 40d version, as I assume most of this wouldn't have changed, but I don't know how to check for the appropriate xp values. So far I think the order remained unchanged, except "No label" got replaced by "Adequate", and I'm relatively sure Dabbling through Competent are still correct, and Great through Legendary. I just put this here to reflect the "Adequate" change, and so anybody who knows how to check for the rest can update and put it into the wiki page, as it's lacking at the moment.
I added the question marks so people can remove them once they confirm the levels, and change the order if it is found to be different. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 16:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC+2)


{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0"
|-
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level        !! XP
|-
| Dabbling     || align="right" | 1??
|-
| Novice       || align="right" | 500??
|-
| Adequate     || align="right" | 1100??
|-
| Competent    || align="right" | 1800??
|-
| Skilled      || align="right" | 2600??
|-
| Proficient   || align="right" | 3500??
|-
| Talented     || align="right" | 4500??
|}
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level        !! XP
|-
| Adept        || align="right" | 5600??
|-
| Expert       || align="right" | 6800??
|-
| Professional || align="right" | 8100??
|-
| Accomplished || align="right" | 9500??
|-
| Great        || align="right" | 11000??
|-
| Master       || align="right" | 12600??
|-
| High Master  || align="right" | 14300??
|}
| width="33%" |
{| width="100%"
! Level        !! XP
|-
| Grand Master || align="right" | 16100??
|-
| Legendary    || align="right" | 18000??
|-
| Legendary+1  || align="right" | 20000??
|-
| Legendary+2  || align="right" | 22100??
|-
| Legendary+3  || align="right" | 24300??
|-
| Legendary+4  || align="right" | 26600??
|-
| Legendary+5  || align="right" | 29000??
|}
|}
:I can now confirm that the skill levels remained the same (up to Legendary at least), except that the "Adequate" prefix replaced the "No-label" one, and I still don't know how to test the xp values, might be able to check them in adventure mode. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 17:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::They appear to be unchanged when I look at them in Dwarf Therapist. [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 17:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::This would not go on this page, it would go on [[experience]].--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

A list of skill descriptors on this page would be useful and this table is as good as any, though perhaps the numbers aren't needed here [[User:Cpad|Cpad]] 02:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

==Quality Skills==
I've been trying to compose a list of skills where level affects quality modifiers, versus skills where level is otherwise important, versus skills where level only affects speed.

Affects Quality:
Architect (cannot have mood)
Mason
Engraver (cannot have mood)
Mechanic
Carpenter
Bowyer
Siege Engineer
Cook
Trapper (for making traps)
Weaponsmith
Armorsmith
Blacksmith
Metal Crafter
Bone Carver
Stone Crafter (though, who cares, amirite?)
Wood Crafter (even more useless)
Leatherworker
Weaver
Gem Cutter
Gem Setter

Otherwise Important:
Miner (get all them gems)
Planter (for fat stacks)
All medical
All military
Judge of Intent
Appraiser

Just speed:
Organizer
Record Keeper
Soap Maker
All others

This seems pretty final now, so I'mma go figure out how to make a table on this wiki. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

==skill penalties==
I'm pretty sure I've seen my legendary miners not dropping stone (or rough jewels, or ore), if they're exhausted, so it does seem to be a straight penalty.  I'll add it to the article provisionally. Could someone else verify?

* Toady commented that as of 31.08, this should only apply to "starving" people (and presumably dehydrated) (comment at http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8).  What have your mining experiences been in 31.08? -- [[User:Creidieki|Creidieki]] 05:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
**I was pretty confident that it was exhaustion, but it's entirely possible I mistook a brown arrow for a gray one.[[Special:Contributions/75.164.146.98|75.164.146.98]] 02:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

===Layout===
Could someone please edit the layout so that the skill levels is side-by-side with the skills available? Would make a much better page layout and easy reference at a glance. -[[User:Dezbro|Dezbro]] 03:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

== Skill Rust ==

I believe that Skill Rust should be incorporated into the Skill article of this Wiki, rather than having a separate article. -[[User:Kogan Loloklam|Kogan Loloklam]] 14:02, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Example of negative effect of skill rust: adept metalcrafter (very rusty) produces items of basic quality only. "Only" as in 15 or 20 in a row. Also dwarf with rusty skill gets less XP per job. I saw numbers as little as 14 XP vs 30 XP for not rusty skill. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:I think this holds true. My Expert Armorsmith (Very Rusty) produced a basic copper mail shirt and at rusty he produced only a well crafted. --[[User:Egodeus|Egodeus]] 19:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

::I have observed that dwarves with rusty skills won't do work in workshops that have their profile set above some minimum, probably dabbling, even if the skill to be used is of a sufficiently high level. It could mean that (rusty) and (very rusty) skills temporarily set the skill level to dabbling until the (rusty) and (very rusty) tags are removed. --[[User:Teddy|Teddy]] 22:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

:::Workshop profiles can definitely be used to see what level the rusty/very rusty skill has been reduced to - doesn't appear to be Dabbling every time (my Accomplished yet Rusty armorsmith refused to go back into his assigned workshop until its minimum profile had been dropped to Skilled), but certainly means the workshop minimum might indicate effective skill levels of rusty higher-level skills.--[[User:jhxmt|jhxmt]] 18:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I *think* that skills out of use for an extremely long time start to fall in levels - my bookkeeper was a High Master Fish Dissector when he turned up a few years back, he's now a Master Fish Dissector. I'll keep a better eye on this and report back.--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

: I think it's true. I have a bunch of stonecrafters from Master to Grand Master levels which could only be formerly Legendary from mood as I don't do much stonecrafting. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 00:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

It looks like rust comes off in layers.  I just watched as my Proficient (very rusty) architect designed two buildings.  After the first he was merely rusty, and after the second he was simply Proficient.  It's a single sample, but still.  --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 22:56, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:Again I think this is true, since my expert (very rusty) armorsmith became just rusty after making one mailshirt and the just expert after a second. --[[User:Egodeus|Egodeus]] 19:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I didn't notice any affect on my medic staff due to "rusty" skills, They still worked as though their skills were normal.  I didn't think to check xp earned, I have noticed atrophy(loss of skill lvl) in my other fortresses after reaching "very rusty".  I'm Incorporating a "danger room" and I'll monitor xp earned. --Nordak

Do legendary skills rust? I usually disable mining on my legendary miners, but haven't seen any rust yet.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 16:41, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
:They certainly do - I've had dwarves go moody and become legendary wood crafters, and they eventually rusted below legendary. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed that higher level skills seem to rust faster in some way than lower level skills. My Proficient Diagnostician/Adequate Wound Dresser/Novice Suturer/Surgeon/Bone Doctor Chief Medical Dwarf gained the (very rusty) tag on his Diagnostician level pretty quickly, while the rest of his medical skills remained at (rusty) until they started to be used three years after arrival. The same applied to my Skilled Weaponsmith/Competent Armorsmith/Metalsmith. --[[User:Teddy|Teddy]] 22:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

== Bugs? Mainly with modding ==

Would putting in a bug section be out of place if the bugs are solely on the modding side?  Like warning modders that if you disable one skill in a metaskill group the whole metaskill group disappears? [[User:KaelemGaen|KaelemGaen]] 14:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think it would be worth it... just put the bugs in the discussion thread and if somebody feels like it maybe they will transpose them in the main page. [[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 16:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== On Wrestlers and Bronze Colossuses ==

I had a fresh recruit fighting a Bronze Colossus for some reason. Obviously, without any skills to his name, he immediately began wrestling the thing. The next instant, he was an Elite Wrestler. I imagine that trying to wrestle a gigantic living bronze statue can be an extraordinary learning experience. Although he was pummeled into a pulp despite his new elite-ness, does anyone know exactly why this happened?--[[Special:Contributions/162.83.223.4|162.83.223.4]] 02:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah, this happens in any combat now. Before (or after?) dying military dwarf is promoted. It looks very funny. --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 01:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 
: Colossi.  :P -- [[Special:Contributions/192.203.222.78|192.203.222.78]] 02:56, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Managing Skills ==

A general page or section on managing skills of dwarves would be helpful.  what labor preferences (and therefore skills) are good to give in combination?  A table summarizing which skills allow operation of what buildings or other activities would also be helpful, they're not all obvious, and the summary could be one line, instead of going to a nearly blank page to find out.  (Animal dissection allows what now?  I go to the animal dissector page, which is almost entirely empty, to find out.)

Is there any way to find which dwarves are the highest in a skill?  list them by skill level in a selected category?
my best woodcutter committed suicide, now i need to find someone else and transfer the axe to them...
but i have no idea how to do that, other than painfully going through the entire roster. -- [[Special:Contributions/192.203.222.78|192.203.222.78]] 02:55, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

: The first part, the table, is a good suggestion. The second part: In the nobles screen, when replacing nobles dwarves are sorted by most skill related to that position. Other than that, I think you need something like Dwarf Therapist to compare stats easily. [[User:Calite|Calite]] 03:22, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Immigrant combat Skills ==

When looking for dwarves to draft in Dwarf Therapist, I noticed that dwarves immigrating with relatively high military skills mostly have high civilian skills. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 13:47, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Adventure Mode Skills vs. Fortress Mode Skill Categories ==

A search for "skill" or "skills" points to this page. Yet this page is categorized for Fortress Mode according to dwarf jobs. I think this arrangement can be slightly confusing for newbie Adventure Mode players.

Also, I do realize that a page for [[Knapper]] does not exist yet. But the [[Knapper]] link is currently listed under "Other Jobs". There is no Fortress Mode job that uses the Knapper skill... is there? If not, perhaps [[Knapper]] should be moved to the "Miscellaneous" category?

Finally, I could not seem to get the [[Knapper]] skill to work in vanilla DF in Adventure Mode. I tried holding a small stone in each hand, with nothing else in my hands, but there was no option to knap with them from the "x" perform action menu. I did put 5 points into Knapper at character creation to start out as "Novice". Is there some other requirement? Does it require certain types of hard stone, such as flint or obsidian? --[[User:Thundercraft|Thundercraft]] 22:28, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

:The [[Knapper]] skill is not used in Fortress Mode as of current, and neither is the [[Alchemy]] skill which also is listed under "Other Jobs". The "Miscellaneous" category, however, is reserved for skills that aren't jobs.--[[User:Teddy|Teddy]] 22:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

== Traits Changing In-Game ==

There's a Verify tag on the statement "Traits can not be modified in-game", so I thought I'd throw in Toady One on the subject from Oct 2008:

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/spoilers/101908.txt

"... most of the personality facets are have range of values without a notion of improvement or betterness necessarily being included".

Obviously this is ancient in DF terms, and only shows state of mind, not iron law. Cf. the first statement in the text, "The names are preliminary or even known to be crap in some cases", and all nineteen are exactly the same as today. XD --[[User:Knaveofstaves|Knaveofstaves]] 06:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

== Skill level impact ==

A rather major piece of information appears to be either completely missing, or vaguely mentioned in various places - namely the effect of each skill on the labor outcome.

Since I have no idea how to edit a wikitable, and neither a complete understanding of the issue (just started playing, which is how I came across this omission in the first place), I would appreciate your help with rectifying this situation. So far I've gathered the following information (though cannot guarantee it's accuracy) - please review, edit, and merge with the labor table on the info page once the listing is completed and verified.

The results of my digging through (I apologize for the poor formatting, complete novice at this). I tried to refrain from assumptions and base the below only on clear statements in subsequent pages or discussions:


*Category: 	Labors:       Affects Work Quality:            Affects Work Speed:


Mining 	

    * Mining                  Chance of ore/gem drop           Yes

Woodworker 	

    * Carpentry               Yes                              Yes
    * Crossbow-making         Yes                              Yes
    * Wood cutting            ?                                ?

Stoneworking 	

    * Masonry                 Yes                              Yes
    * Stone detailing         Engraving only                   Yes? (Both Engraving and Smoothing?)

Hunting/Related 	

    * Animal training         ?                                ?
    * Animal care             ?                                ?
    * Hunting                   ^Skill level impacts the speed of a hunting (Ambushing) dwarf
    * Trapping                Created Traps only?              ?
    * Small animal dissection ?                                ?

Healthcare 	

    * Diagnosis               ?                                ?
    * Surgery                 ?                                ?
    * Setting bones           ?                                ?
    * Suturing                ?                                ?
    * Dressing wounds         ?                                ?
    * Feed patients/prisoners ?                                ?
    * Recovering wounded      ?                                ?

Farming/Related 	

    * Butchery                ?                                Yes
    * Tanning                 ?                                Yes
    * Farming (fields)        Produced Stack size              Yes
    * Dyeing                  Yes                              Yes
    * Soap making             No                               Yes
    * Wood burning            ?                                Yes
    * Potash making           No                               Yes
    * Lye making              No                               Yes
    * Milling                 No                               Yes
    * Brewing                 ?                                ?
    * Plant gathering         Produced Stack size?             ?
    * Plant processing        No?                              Yes?  
    * Cheese making           ?                                ?
    * Milking                 ?                                Only milking vermin-type creatures?
    * Shearing                ?                                Yes?
    * Spinning                ?                                Yes?
    * Cooking                 ?                                ?                  
    * Pressing                ?                                ?
    * Beekeeping              ?                                ?

Fishing/Related 	

    * Fishing                 ?                                Yes
    * Fish cleaning           ?                                ?
    * Fish dissection         ?                                ?

Metalsmithing 	

    * Furnace operating       No                               Yes                             
    * Weaponsmithing          Yes                              Yes
    * Armoring                Yes                              Yes
    * Blacksmithing           Yes                              Yes
    * Metalcrafting           Yes                              Yes

Jewelry 	

    * Gem cutting             Large gems & gem crafts only     Yes
    * Gem setting             Yes                              Yes

Crafts 	
(I read it somewhere that skill level affects both quality and speed of "all crafts," but thought this could use additional verification)


    * Leatherworking          Yes                              Yes?
    * Woodcrafting            Yes                              Yes
    * Stonecrafting           Yes                              Yes?
    * Bone carving            Yes                              Yes?
    * Glassmaking             ?                                ?
    * Weaving                 Yes                              Yes?
    * Clothesmaking           Yes                              Yes
    * Strand extraction       No                               Yes 
    * Pottery                 ?                                ?
    * Glazing                 Yes?                             ?
    * Wax working             ?                                ?

Engineering 	

    * Siege engineering       Yes?                             ?
    * Siege operating         ?                                Speed of reloading
    * Mechanics               Yes?                             ?
    * Pump operating          ?                                ?

Other Jobs 	

    * Architecture            "Low" impact on value?           No
    * Alchemy - N/A
    * Cleaning - not a skill per se

Hope this makes some sense :)
--[[User:Sheepify|Sheepify]] 03:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
:Thank you for the !!SCIENCE!!, this is awesome. Watch out for items that might have a quality level invisible to the player, they were believed to exist in 40d. See [[v0.31_Talk:Brewer]] for a few lines of discussion. --[[User:Knaveofstaves|Knaveofstaves]] 04:17, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
: I wonder at the decision to move this to Skills when the Labor page already has the table (unmodified), the issue is similar to something already discussed (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Redundancy) and it would be '''helpful''' to new players such as myself. It was far more likely to be completed where the data partially existed. Frankly, I cannot see any issues with having this information duplicated in both main Labor and Skill page (again, text above is from Labor page), as well as included in the side tables summary for each individual skill... but, in the best NewYawk tradition, "whatever." Reminded me why I don't do wikipedia edits, either.
:--[[User:Sheepify|Sheepify]] 18:12, 30 April 2011 (UTC) the (briefly) !!SCIENCE!! Guy