User talk:Ziusudra

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"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --Savok

--Briess 00:52, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Key template

Thanks for fixing up some occurrences of < and > - it turned out that the issue was caused by this change that I made to {{key/0}}, which I've fixed. I'm probably also going to undo some of your changes in an attempt to make things clearer for editors - &lt; and &gt; are fine with me, but I had to look up what &#8203; was, and I'd rather use {{k|<}} and {{k|>}} in most cases if they work. But thank you for tracking down and fixing all of the pages that you did! —Lethosor (talk) 23:45, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

• Seconded! (and said as much in a couple edit summaries.) Btw, &#8203;, aka "number space", is a great tool. Just used it recently to force a bit more space in a table header to make the data in the cells in that column format more cleanly. Albedo (talk) 00:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Go forth, now, and edit!

A comment from 2009?! iirc the wiki and forums used the same account system back then, probably what triggered the auto comment, either way the wiki legends mode marks you as an historic figure!

Anyway, I have noticed that you have been updating Adventure mode quick start if you like rewrites, any chance you can take on Fortress Mode Quickstart Guide or Dwarf fortress mode?--Jan (talk) 18:15, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I am much less experienced and confident with fort mode - havn't played it in months and didn't play much even then. Afaik, the wiki has always been a community administrated project and the forum and wiki hav never shared any account details - although, my first post on the forum is from 2007 and my first on the wiki isn't until 2017, so I could be wrong. Ziusudra (talk) 21:58, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

or my recollection is wrong, it has been a long time. Anyway, if things change we could use someone who can do page wide rewrites, less experience might be a boon, offering a better perspective for what is needed on a quickstart guide for example --Jan (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Size

I think what's going on with the Size and Weight pages is that, internally, the game divides the specified value by 10 before storing it in its data structures, then it multiplies it by 10 when calculating actual weight. I took this into account when filling in the "volume" values on the Weight page (which is why its formula lacks the "* 10" and mentions the rounding down to the nearest multiple of 10), and I'm guessing the same thing happens with creature sizes. --Quietust (talk) 16:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I think I found what is causing part of my confusion: IRL 600 cm³ of iron would weigh about 4.7 kg, but in game a bar of iron is shown as weighing 47Γ ... so either a DF bar really is 6000 cm³ or the game's Γ is equivalent to 100 g, not 1 kg as initially claimed here.

But then in adv mode I killed a dwarf and the corpse is 89Γ, even though the size_cur is 6617 (and his head exploded) ... since the game is probably calculating a density from the layers (or adding up the weight of the layers, etc) 1359.6 kg/m³ is not that far off. So since the 89Γ is close enough to what a real human would weigh in kg, then a Γ is equivalent to a kg, and a bar really would be 6000 cm³.

From that and some web searching, some already known and verified things:

• 1 Γ = 1 kg
• densities in raws are in kg/m³ ([1])
• [BODY_SIZE] values in raws are in cm³ ([2])
• The values in the table on Weight are in cm³
• The values in the table on Size are also in cm³
• volumes of items and creatures are stored as 1/10th

And thus:

• The "* 10" on Size is not needed
• The size of a bar is 6000 cm³, not 600 cm³

I'm gonna think a bit more before making changes. Ziusudra (talk) 08:08, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Maybe this report ^Bug:11772 (from before your changes to the values on Weight) wasn't completely wrong, except the densities are correct and only some things are 10× bigger than they should be. Like the bars, or seeds, a 100 cm³ spherical seed would be 5.75 cm (2.26 in) in diameter, and seeds are larger than plant growths. And cut gems are larger than large gems. Ziusudra (talk) 12:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Where exactly did you see that Bars were only 600cm³? In the game code, item_barst::base_volume() does indeed return 600, but on the Weight page I documented it as having a volume of 6000 so that the weight calculation (where Γ does mean kilograms) doesn't need an extra multiplication by 10. --Quietust (talk) 13:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Bar and Size, both also hav an incorrect capacity for bins. Ziusudra (talk) 13:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

It looks like the Storage page also has all of its capacities off by a factor of 10, likely to make things line up with the extra *10 on the Size page. For example, it lists Minecarts as having a capacity of 50000, even though the raws clearly specify "[CONTAINER_CAPACITY:500000]". I suspect a major overhaul is in order. --Quietust (talk) 15:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)