40d Talk:Pregenerated worlds

Standardization

Along with creating a template for the entries, the images need to all be with the standard character sets and not with a graphical set. It's not very useful to be looking at images one is unfamiliar with - may as well not upload the images. --Geofferic 17:39, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Definitely something to work on with standardizing the information on seeds. Though maybe later, as all you really need to be able to look at is the X marking locations and size of the box on the local map. I finished categorizing the seeds, and later will be trying to work out a general format for seed entries/later submittals. --KaelGotRice 18:07, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Personally, I find the way Chariot implemented his seed page[1] wonderful. The seed entry here on the pregen page could use a little more detail (OS&DF version for instance) but the separate page with site-by-site breakdowns is great! I've got little/no experience with wikis, but I'm wondering if it would be possible to make a template to do that, and make it easy for any new seeds to be added using the template. Among other things, it would keep discussion of seeds specific to their own pages, and leave this discussion free to concentrate on the generalities of seeds and pre-gen worlds. In addition, it should either be reclassified or duplicated to indicate that it's also a 0/low rejects seed. --n9103 11:10, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

I made a quickly thrown together template for seeded worlds Template:Seeded World, and have made a copy of Pauls world (for .33f) in it. It still needs alot of tuning (especially conditional #if for when entries are left open), as well as better handling (or rather handling at all) for worlds with multiple good starting locations. (Not really sure how this last point can be handled most cleanly from the perspective of the user.) Interrested in feedback as to the usefulness of such a template.. --Gauteamus 18:35, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Looks nice and pretty functional. As to additional sites, would it be possible to use templates within templates? Specifically, reproducing the current template for the site portion multiple times within it's own set of show/hide areas for each site. Just an idea on that coming from someone that doesn't know squat about advanced wiki-ing. Unless empty entries break the template, should they need handling at all? (since I read somewhere that this wiki doesn't do ifs. Great Work so far! --n9103 19:45, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

Clean up?

It was asked why I deleted a seed earlier, and I may just go back and edit it so that it mentions that I tested the seed on two different machines and got vastly different results on the seed than the original seed poster did (see history for seed number). Also, what is your guy's opinions on deleting/redoing entries without maps/pictures or without any major sites of interest? Example: Seed 0 mentions a spot to start at a terrifying volcano but you cannot even embark there.

PS - I'm going to move seeds according to quick creation time (low rejects) and features if possible.

Also, added a nice find to the pre-generated world's list. --KaelGotRice 16:42, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Unless we are speaking at cross purposes ... I am playing a game right now at the suggested start spot from Seed 0. --Geofferic 17:27, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I'll just nuke the useless volcano in the tundra image for now as this is fairly common and taking up room - and you cannot embark anywhere near there. I understand that the seed is worth keeping because of 0 rejects. But in terms of useless information taking up space, that was the point I was trying to make. --KaelGotRice 17:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I see what you're talking about - I think that picture was just there to show that a volcano was in fact in the tundra, because that isn't the photo associated with the place s/he was suggested one should play. That's the other photo. The only purpose to the one you're refering to is to demonstrate that it's indeed a cool map, I suppose. --Geofferic 18:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Well I asked you why you deleted the seed I put back up, if it really doesn't work on other computers then I have no problem taking it down, but I've had no trouble regenerating it and I've had no problem generating other people's seeds. Something you need to do though is make sure you don't alter the settings at all. If there are issues where it only works on certain computers, that's interesting in and of itself, but I haven't seen any evidence of that myself so far. I should add, I do support cleaning up, the page is a mess beyond belief, and I agree some of the seeds are amazingly stupid. Qalnor 18:16, 10 December 2007 (EST)

If it works on your computer under repeatable circumstances, leave it up but have a warning tag of some sort :) We could use good seeds. When I have time I will be purging some of the more useless seeds and attempting to clean up here and there. Maybe have some information about your system info/processor/windows or linux? We don't know how these things sometimes affects seed generation. Don't feel bad, the seed I just posted I found out has variable flux/farmable land/sand based on which computers you generated from - and deleting the seed was just jumping the gun on my part.--KaelGotRice 19:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I've repeated it a few times. Processor is AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200 Dual Core 90nm 939-pin, OS is XP SP2. Now that you mention that flux thing I do seem to remember someone mentioning something once about a slightly modified map. I'll try to find that at some point to see if there were any relevant details. Qalnor 14:13, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Removal of older pre-generated worlds

User:N9103 and User:Fedor had a bit of a back and forth as to cleaning up older PreGen (Pre-generated) worlds.
Fedor brought up that some of the changes in map generation since then are for the better, and how most people would probably expect the most recent generation rules to be in effect.
Edward brought up how the actual world had no changes and were still perfectly usable.
Fedor brought up that many minerals and gems were typically missing in maps generated in 33e and earlier. Edward agrees on this point.
Edward and Fedor came to the agreement that it should be a community decision as to whether older (33e&f) PreGens should be left on the wiki.

Please leave your opinion for this decision, along with any suggestions!

Leave them on the page with a note that the rock-layer-generating code changed, so the same worlds generated under the current version would have different mineral abundances. If they were incompatible or somehow vastly inferior, then I'd agree with their removal, but having different minerals strikes me as quite minor.--Maximus 03:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

For the downloadable worlds leave them as is, or update descriptions if anything actually changes. Although I thought that the downloadable ones would fixed at that point. As for the seeds I'd either leave them there if they are still good, or possible archive them to a pregenerated worlds/version page if we get too many. --Shades 06:24, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Remove, users can check the history of the page if they want the older stuff. --Jackard 06:28, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Logging sites

I like the idea of logging specific sites to seeds, but how is the best way we can organize this? for a good location explaination you probably need a picture. But if we add a lot of pictures to each seed we get a large cluttered page. What shall we do? Add subpages for specific seeds? Try to think of a generic way to log nice sites (for example: Seed: 12323241 coords:12,13 has: ruins, vent, pit, trees, iron , gold, undead elephants of death, more eagels than the US has fighter planes, etc). (Is it possible to determine the coords of a site on the world map?)

And also, I think it is possible to create non number seeds. I'm going to test this. --Soyweiser 08:34, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

No for non numbers. --Soyweiser 09:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

The forum had a good suggestion. Lets store all the seeds that reject few regions while you create them. (Or at least reject as few regions as possible). The first one with the vulcano in the woods rejects 9 regions. The seed 2 gives a world after 3 rejects according to the forum. http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001234 --Soyweiser 09:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

This thread should be interesting. There's even a world with zero rejects.
http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001247 Death Dragon 02:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anybody know how to link to a specific post of the forum? Death Dragon 12:38, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

As far as I know, there isn't a way. This version of the bulletin board code does not place "name" links within the generated forum thread tables as some others do, so no appending of a "#name" to the URL can possibly scroll the browser directly to the post. The best we can do is link to the correct page of the thread and rely on the reader to scroll to the correct post him/herself. --Alfador 12:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

This was mentioned briefly on the forum, but we should make some rules for finding specific locations on the map, As in there is a magma vent in a tile with no volcano near at this position The question is whether or not to use coordinates that refer to the map you get when you export your map (the big one), or to refer to coordinates in the 3 sections thats show up when you are selecting were to embark to. I'm actually not positive, they match up. I'm pretty sure the map you get from exporting is 257x308, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think the middle map of the embark mode is exactly the same, I just looked through it, and it seems this way, but I thought (and maybe this was a remnant from 32a) that it didn't if someone else can confirm or deny it that'd be nice.

Anyhow I propose using that middle map as the basis of coordinates: we use the most general map (which is 15x16) and follow it by actual map position, and lastly where in the local map it is. also I propose using what tile it is to define it on each map as well.

here's an example (which you can verify using [SEED:2260691361])

General: (yellow n)
14 Lat, and 2 lon
Coordinates: (yellow i)
220 lat, and 33 lon
Location: (green i)-(green i)
1-3 lat, and 5-7 lon

You have here a elf forest retreat.
--Bevilr 22:03, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Can't use the middle map sorry

It's always centered on the cursor. Also the large exported map - it may be bugged presently as it seems possible to find regions that are off the edge of what's exported. What would be possible would be to count the steps past where the position on the world (right-most) map changed, this seems to happen every 16 X or Y steps. Suggest indexing from the bottom left (top right if negative values used). Djp 01:10, 22 November 2007 (EST)

Use the world map to see where the approximate location is on the full map and the middle map for landmarks in that vicinity to figure out where the exact site is.--Maximus 00:45, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Individual entries

I like the way #3089130238 laid out the information for that seed. We could definitely use a standard layout for this page. Is there anything else we should be including for each seed, besides the number of map rejections?--Xazak 19:05, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

I definitely agree with this, and would love to see some sort of template, for (A) each world, and (B) sites of interest in each world--Bevilr 22:06, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

A layout would be good, but keep in mind that the required bits should be accessible from either the exportable world map or fortress mode site selection. Otherwise, it could become an ungodly hassle to fill out the form and then there'd be no more additions. --BDR 07:22, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Seed 92003: I like the volcano named "The Big Flame." It makes me laugh! --Alfador 13:56, 17 November 2007 (EST)

Can we please put in seed 1337? (it has 2 or 4 rejects... i cant remember which, if absolutly nothing else... and it has lots of good stuff on it to... i found so many good sites... it was hard to pick which one to... well pick.) but really, its seed 1337, check it out. --pbhead 18:20 November 2007 (EST)

What was good about the sites? People sometimes have very different ideas of what makes for a good world.--Maximus 18:56, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Template

Seed number: 4265985437 - The Legendary Ever-Realm
Rejects:	51	DF version:	.33f
World-gen name:	RANDOM	Download:	http://hyperfileshare.com/d/f91fae26
Comment:	This is a most rude stealing of Paul's map above for the purpose of testing this template, changes are bound to happen, please comment in discussion thread/make improvements as you see fit.
Location(s):
Features present:	Magma, cave river, chasm, adamantine, sand, trees, flux and iron.
Features missing:	Giant cave spiders??

I moved this example template from the main article. Discussion should go at Template talk:Seeded World. --Turgid Bolk 17:22, 23 December 2007 (EST)

Organization

I think we should try to better organize the seeds, into a table or such, something like this. It would really help to see all of the seeds at a glance. We should also try to take all screenshots using 0x517A5D's excellent Regional Prospector, to reveal all the hidden mountain features. --Valdemar 15:42, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Re: 4265985437 - The Legendary Ever-Realm

On Vista, it is generated with the same name, but with 71 rejects and a completely different map. (33g) Alas! KiTA 00:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

That's because of changed map generation algotythm in 33g. (Maybe this should be placed in discussion?) Dorten 01:02, 28 December 2007 (EST)

There's a download link provided for that world, so just download it.--Maximus 01:38, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Multiple Continents and STUFF!

Just poking around here. Has anyone seen/generated a world with multiple continents? I've seen plenty of Island, but there's always only one continent and all the "oceans" look more like oversized lakes. Could someone post a world with multiple coninents and if possible realistic oceans? Oh, and has anyone noticed that the polar icecaps are more like large tundras rather than, well, large glaciers... My worlds usually end up so warm, I wonder if the dwarfs have a problem with global warming. Noctis 15:40, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Depending on your definition of continent, I've gotten two separate land masses that weren't connected. But considering the scale of the DF Worlds, it's not surprising there aren't really convincing oceans. If you assume that each tile is about 1m², (pretty reasonable) then each DF world is only 38,654 km² (14,924mi²) in total surface area. Considering that the Land Surface Area of the Earth is oh, around 4,000 Times larger, and that's not even counting the water area... So yea, a world with a real ocean would be sorta like playing on the corner of a volcanic island. :P --Edward 19:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Not to be rude, but I think you made a error in your calculations. Please do consider that Europe alone is more than ten million square kilometers. I think you made a error when you considered "dwarf" squares per embark squares per world squares. Also, considering that the world's biggest mountain is 8848m high and the highest DF mountains are 250 Z-levels high(if I remember correctly), one DF Z-level must be more than 35m. Even when the highest DF mountain would be 5000m, a Z-level should be 20m. At the same time one average story of a building is ca 4m and putting this into z-levels gives us a maximum mountain size of 1000m. Small, huh? Oh, don't forget that that is the height from the lowest bottom of an "ocean", meaning that the real values are even more ridiculous. I can't imagine a ocean in the DF world in your scale at all. Speaking of oceans, I just generated a world with an ridiculous ocean. It's less than 15x15 in size and doesn't even show up on the world map in embark screen. Then there's the stone layers. In a 40000km² area there should be no more than a handful of stone layers, but in a DF world there's hundreds!

This is sounding very DF-critical, but I really love this game. It's just that that the world generation can be very weird. Oh! And to make this post even longer for kicks. I just generated a world where three oceans divide the world into two, what I would call, continents, but because of two small land bridges they are counted as one. Compare with N. + S. America and Europe + Asia + Africa. Nuff...

PS. Did you manually add your sig to translate your nick? Noctis 13:56, 29 December 2007 (EST)

RE Land Mass: Total Earth Land Area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth Total DF Land Area: Regions

Why should DF world relate directly to the real world? Who says that DF mountains would even be as tall as Earth's? You made quite a few derivative calculations on a rather large assumption, IMO. All I've been trying to establish is that there really isn't a point to trying to compare the DF World to the real one. If you're trying to counter that argument, I'm really unsure what the point of most of your comments were. If you're trying to confirm it, then your comments still don't make much sense.

As for the sig, I added the normal signature to my nickname preference, changed the field manually, and that's where the signature comes from.--Edward 20:21, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Smata Sagus download

(The file doesn't work on my PC. I get a Fatal Error: "Missing Reaction Definition" -Zara 14:39, 30 January 2008 (EST))

You're absolutely right, I'd forgotten about a couple of changes I made to the reactions. The same problem affected my other two uploaded worlds as well. My apologies. I've uploaded new copies which are made on an unmodified copy of 33g, so download it again and it will work. --Janus 17:51, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Organization proposal

I propose to place all world seeds on subpages for their corresponding version and transcluding the page with the current world seeds onto the main pregenerated worlds page. The idea would end up something like so:

Pregenerated worlds

==Seeds==

{{:Pregenerated worlds/0.27.173.38a}}

Pregenerated worlds/0.27.173.38a

(list of seeds and descriptions)

If we do it this way there won't be a need to move large blocks of text around when the version change kills seed compatibility; instead we can change which of the pages are transcluded onto the main seed page. Any thoughts? I will probably implement this tomorrow if noone objects. VengefulDonut 18:57, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Very good idea, do you envision e.g. the page Pregenerated worlds/version.number to contain both "passive" seed information as well as true pregenerated downloadable worlds?-Gauteamus 08:36, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Pregenerated_worlds#Near_perfect_4X5 - seed #: 1038428822

Has anyone managed to generated the world shown in the screenshot? I generated [SEED:1038428822] with an unmodified df_27_173_38a and the world is nothing like what's displayed in the screenshot. Possibly the original poster has modified raw files that caused it to be different? There isn't much said about modified raws changing the world generated. We probably should add something about that and ask people who have modified raws to post them alongside their seeds. Does anyone have much info regarding which raws can potentially effect worldgen? Also has anyone actually ever tested the fact that different names (non-random) or OSes cause different worlds to be generated or is that just something someone put there to try and explain why there are sometimes different worlds generated? I haven't tested either yet but both sound like strange things to cause a different world to me. --Someone(r)(c)(tm) 15:04, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Operating system still causes a different output, too, as far as I know. --GreyMario 16:04, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Then we need to write an operating system... I had absolutely different world either. (There's still a possibility of typo in a seed)--Dorten 23:48, 14 February 2008 (EST)

I think that that seed was for the last version (33g)--Dragonflare 01:12, 15 February 2008 (EST)

The Toady One himself has stated in his changelogs that OS and World name don't affect world gen. As for raws, I would assume *ANY* change to them would change the generation. Personally, I think that if you're using a mod, then you forfeit your world-posting privileges, since this is by far aimed at unmodded DF. Posting in a subpage of the mod itself would be different of course. JM2¢. --Edward 03:31, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Found this in the changelogs "12/19/2007: <snip> * made world generation results independent of custom name" so I'm removing the world name thing. I'm thinking of removing the OS thing as well unless someone really is sure it effects. Basically what you want to test is making the same seed using two operating systems with completely default DFs of the same version (I suggest redownloading from the site on both OSes to be sure because you might have modified the raws and forgotten or something) but I am some what doubtful that OS has any effect. I actually agree with Edward about people using mods not posting worlds but I was thinking it was possibly a bit extreme so didn't suggest it myself. Unless anyone has any objections or other suggestions perhaps we should implement it? Although probably any change to the raws effects worldgen in some way it would appear that since terrain seems to be generated first not all modifications result in completely different worlds. Since most of the seeds given here are aimed at good starting locations in the form of terrain features it's possible that some modifications to the raws won't effect it enough to change the terrain generated. Of course a 'no mods at all' policy would make things a lot simpler than a 'some mods are allowed' policy. --Someone(r)(c)(tm) 07:26, 15 February 2008 (EST)

iirc, Toady commented that OS shouldn't have any effect since DF makes its own random numbers. VengefulDonut 09:33, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Pocket Worlds Impossible??

I've tried numerous pocket sized universes but have always gotten 10,000+ rejects and I've given up. Does anyone have a seed for a pocket sized world? Yvain 03:05, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Hmm seems some options I changed meant I couldn't generate pocket worlds. It worked fine with a fresh copy so I'll have to check what exact changes I had made which prevented it. Yvain 03:53, 21 March 2008 (EDT)