User talk:Doorkeeper

Thanks!

Thank you for the time and effort you've put into fixing up the Dwarf Fortress Wiki; you're doing a fine job! --Loci (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words. – Doorkeeper 07:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

naxboxes

I just added {{soil}} to go along with the soil navboxes you created a couple days ago. Using that on soil pages instead of the version-specific templates is preferable because it allows the page text to be copied without changes when we do a version migration (although that hasn't happened in a long time). I'll set up a script to change those when I get a chance, so don't worry about changing them yourself. Thanks for all the work you've been doing! —Lethosor (talk) 16:26, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, and I wasn't aware of that feature (the helper template). I'll remember to ask these things beforehand. This wiki has a very unique structure and I try so my edits don't accidentally screw with them, but I make mistakes too... I'll finish up some of my lesser edits on the soil articles for now. -– Doorkeeper 18:55, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Lethosor, I recently uploaded File:Jabberer.png (that I took from here), but before I had it uploaded to the wiki, I converted the file format from .jpg to .png because I had a preconceived notion that it would make the image come out better. I just learned more about image file formats and I realized that this did nothing but make the file unnecessarily bigger (and it also altered the brightness of the image, something I had not intended). It is a small mistake but I feel bothered over making such an error and I cannot leave it alone. Could you delete that file, so I can upload the image again (this time not converting it into a png) and replace it? I can't do "Upload a new version of the file" because I think the file format can't be altered as it is once uploaded. I was originally going to move the file name but I wasn't sure if it would work and decided not to, so I am asking to you instead. – Doorkeeper 11:43, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Great project goals, you seem to making great strides with those fantastic looking infoboxes! Few thoughts:

• Creature template seem a little too big and overwhelming with details. I'd suggest to use collapsible elements to hide some of the less used details like the list of body tissue composition.
• The default infobox width on mediawiki projects is 22em not 24em, its minor thing but it would better align with [[File:image|thumb]] which also default to 22em.
• Personally, I find the usefulness of the appearance sections dubious given how few people actually use the default ascii tileset. Also with upcoming steam release various entities appearance might change which could break the layout.

• For connivance I have added Category:Infobox templates to help group all the infboxe templates and their elements in one place you can review them at.
• If you planning to work on the skill/labor Infobox template I would apricate if you can consider the terminolgy used there.

Anyway, keep at it mate --Jan (talk) 11:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Much thanks for the suggestions – Doorkeeper 15:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

• 22em was actually the original size I went with, before changing it to 24em midway (I used wikipedia:Template:Chembox as my base). But I didn't know that they set it for that reason. I like keeping it to the standard so I'll change it, but as of now I don't plan on using images.
• Useful or not, I believe it's important to present all default graphics of the game... not good at explaining myself. I play in ascii and there'll be a portion of the playerbase who'll keep playing the classic version in vanilla ascii. Yeah I've been thinking about Steam graphics. NetHackWiki displays both ascii & sprites side-by-side, which is what I imagine/wish we could do. I don't know if they'll allow us to upload and use steam sprites on this wiki, if there were already discussions on this I haven't looked it up or seen it. Regardless I do want there to be representation for both official versions (steam & classic). Can't do much until Steam release. Proofs of concept:

Appearance
	Graphical	Classic
Tile		☺
Soldier tile		☻
Child tile		☺

Appearance
Tile		☺
Soldier tile		☻
Child tile		☺

Appearance
☺	Tile
☻	Soldier tile
☺	Child tile

Appearance
Tile	☺
Soldier tile	☻
Child tile	☺

• The width is about consistency for all elements on the page side e.g. currently the infoboxes are 200px width, so I try to keep all images to that size. I hate doing it and rather we use image thumb default size. Which in the future the admin could easily adjust with mediawiki var to anything else(even 24em) just like with templates.
• You are right about the need to document the vannila ascii, but other than the concern that the steam tiles will take much more space than ascii I don't have anything else to offer atm. If you manage to find something then great but otherwise don't get bogged down with future proofing considerations, once the data is plugged is easy to shift things around.
• I am not familiar with any copyright discussion beside couple of glimpses on talk pages of other users, however, I doubt there would be any issue with using the steam sprites under fairuse. Covering interface elements is standard practice for wikis. The best The Trappist could argue is for reduced quality screenshots or some other thing to make life more complicated for us, but IMO they will be shooting themselves in the foot as the wiki is the face of DF. If someone want to pirate the tileset they aren't going to bother with wiki wasting countless hours build and coding it sprite ... by sprite, they are going to download in full from the net within the week of the release.

--Jan (talk) 18:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

• On the point that infoboxes might be too big and overwhelming with details. From what I seen many articles for specific entities are rather short(e.g. DF2014:Lorikeet), so a long infobox will dominate the page, resulting in huge empty article area with most users spend more time to find the basic info amidst all the extra details. Another alternative to collapsible sections is using a tabber extension (it will require an admin to setup first) which would allow to add extra info in tabs. Also commonly used for appearance e.g. we can have tabs for regular, soldier and child tile appearance in more compact form.
• Speak of more compact, here is final idea for your consideration (the tooltip might be better placed over the individual symbols):

Title
Tile Appearance	☺ ; ☻ ; ☺

--Happy new year. --Jan (talk) 13:56, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy new year, and welcome to the wiki btw. – Doorkeeper 18:03, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

navbox redlinks

Not sure that adding all those redlinks to Template:DF2014_materials is a good idea. The way I see it, navbox suppose to be a navigation aid to help people find and explore related content on the wiki, not yet another way\place to list all possible options ever. Here the red links are redirects material (eye, brain, lung, heart, liver etc all will likely end up in the same place like brain -> Prepared organs). So adding them all doesn't improve my ability to find stuff rather obfuscate my ability to find the few important entries on the list.

Personally, I find such large list easy to get lost in and if we have to use them I would prefer using two naboxes separate ones, first is a general summary that outlines the most important concepts, followed by dedicated (possibly collapsed) more detailed list for specific topics that will only show on those topics. --Jan (talk) 17:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

You're right about the redlinks. All those redlinks are articles that should exist, but are otherwise not useful for navigation. And unless someone else is up to the task right now, I'm not gonna create those pages anytime soon (until I finish the mat infobox). I'll remove the redlinks now. For your second issue, are you referring to the "Dependent materials" section that I made before? I recombined back the two sections before reading your message. Hopefully the current configuration is better. – Doorkeeper 19:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for making Template:*, was contemplating if I should create one or not. – Doorkeeper 20:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind the redlinks if there were content behind them, but these should be covered as sections on more general article. We should create redirects for them though. (Btw how do you feel about categorizing redirects, so that relevant category has all possible options.)

The second part, wasn't about something specific but trying to further conversation about navboxes, where I think we should experiment a little more with their presentation. Take Template:DF2014_creatures wall of links for example:

• Do we need the 'Subterranean animal people' distinction? while technically true in raw, in practice there is no game play difference between them and the dozens of other animal people listed bellow and will only confuse people when grouped with the main races.
• The many long list of creatures are overwhelming.
• Mixing list of creatures by biome categories and vermin categories isn't explained and confusing (Why elephant are Tropical and not a Mammal, what miscellaneous refer to?) Maybe these should be grouped or split, after all vermin has their own template Template:DF2014_vermin.

Maybe we should just keep races and add collapsed subgroups for the rest: creatures, vermin, and monster\beasts\whatever that will only show on relevant pages.

Anyway just something to think over. I hope others might also have ideas on this. I have been toying with something similar with modding but lack of familiarity with it grind that to halt. --Jan (talk) 11:57, 10 February 2022 (UTC)