v0.31 Talk:Armor

Armor raw changes

Main armor types have been renamed to "breastplate" and "mail shirt" respectively. Someone with some understanding of armor RAWs should work on the new page. I had to ask just to learn what the [STEP] tags did.

Breastplates have no LBSTEP nor UBSTEP, and now have a simple [ARMORLEVEL:3] in place of all of the old modifiers. They also have no [VALUE] tag.

The community is still working on figuring out what all the different variables do(if anything there appear to be some placeholders in different parts of different raws), and how materials effect the results. The current best description is to say that, for armor, adamantine>steel>bronze(bismuth or not)>iron>=copper>everything else and that adding more layers at least doesn't seem to hurt(except for weight/speed considerations). Some have gone a little further than that(http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53571.msg1151052#msg1151052). --PencilinHand 00:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Having worked on the problem some I must point out that there is an important difference between having no LBSTEP or UBSTEP and having zero LBSTEP and UBSTEP. A lot of work still needs to be done, especially with regards to how materials work with armor. Also, could everybody remember to sign their work like Zorro? --PencilinHand 06:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Extensive coverage testing of various armors and UB/LBSTEP reveals some buggy behavior:

-The only way to protect [STANCE], [GRASP], [HEAD], or [UPPERBODY] parts (feet, hands, head, and upperbody) is with armor worn on them specifically(LOWERBODY parts may be protected by armor worn on the UPPERBODY as well as the LOWEBODY).

-[LIMB]s (arms and legs) are correctly protected by armors, pants, gloves, and gauntlets with appropriate UBSTEP and LBSTEP values. For example, lower arms can be protected by body armor with UPSTEP >=2 as well as gloves with LBSTEP>=1.

-Currently(31.03), the ONLY way to protect parts that are not [LIMB]s,[STANCE]s,[GRASP]s,[HEAD]s or [UPPER/LOWERBODY]s parts (such as facial features, toes, fingers, throat, vestigial wings, any cosmetic custom parts, etc)is by exploiting a bug. You need a robe, or a dress; an UPPERBODY armor with UBSTEP:MAX. Armor configured this way will protect all [LIMB]s that are do not qualify for LBSTEP coverage, as well as fingers and toes etc, but it will NOT protect, hands, feet, or heads. Gauntlets, boots, and helms currently protect hands, feet, and heads, but not fingers, toes, or facial features. This is both counter intuitive, and at odds with toady's comments on the subject.

--Derigo 05:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Whether or not we know the exact mechanics of the various STEPS, I have added them to the Armor Tables so we can at least have a reference to what armor has what. Also, they are now sortable by those #s, because that was really bugging me.

Does anyone know what the BONE/LEATHER/ETC categories are tracking? Because I think it is a holdover from 40d, but I wasn't going to delete them until I knew for sure. --Flaede 10:08, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

wooden armor =

just curious -- how does it rate?

New armor layering rules

I added the new rules for layering armor. It is kind of complicated and I only typed it up so it will need to be presented in a more user friendly format at some point but it is past 2 am here so I am going to bed now. Also, we need to confirm that these rules hold for fortress mode. --PencilinHand 06:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand something--in the example, you say you can get 2x socks, 2x high boots. But if high boots have size 25 permit 15, how do you get the second pair on? Wouldn't the third rule be violated? – unsigned comment by 74.104.157.229

I suspect he's accepting the fact that a dwarf has two feet - so he'd get one sock and one high boot on one foot, and one sock and one high boot on the other. But that's just my interpretation - I don't try and optimize my fortress-mode armoring any better than "okay, high boots protect more than low boots, so I'll make those instead". --DeMatt 07:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Bugs

I just thought I'd point out the bar number bug is probably due to the fact that a steel bar is now 150 steel, much like cloth and thread. The smelting reactions require 150 units as input, but the forge reactions appear to be asking for number of bars instead of amount of metal. Input for a breastplate should then be 450 steel instead of 3. --Dapanman 22:00, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I've found that, in practice in fortress mode (rather than in the arena) pairing a breastplate with a mail shirt and cloak doesn't work, since the dwarves won't take their dresses off. (Far, far too many of my men seem to wear dresses.) It's weird -- sometimes they can squeeze the outfits together, and other times they get stuck spinning in 'Pickup Equipment' - close observation shows they just keep putting on the breastplate, taking it off, putting on the mail shirt, taking it off, etc. Problem is, it's seems to be very hard to get them to remove civilian clothing, specifically the cloak, so I guess some will have to do without the breastplate for now.

Toga

i dont see these on the table, yet i can create them in the '[j]obs' menu, in the leatherworks, and in the clothier's shop in both cloth and silk. surely it should be on there?--DJ Devil 15:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

i also cant make robes or coats. did anyone check the accuracy of this page before it was put on here..?--DJ Devil 15:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Dunno why you can't make robes or coats - for me, my leatherworks has robes as the third choice, coats at fifth, and yes togas at sixth. Cloth has 'em in the same order, and the same for silk. Not in a position to comment on their protective capabilities, me, but they definitely exist. --DeMatt 16:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

one possible reason could be that i'm still on 0.31.03, but i cant see that mattering too much - surely they didnt take any items out of that particular release which were in 40d, and then put it back in on 0.31.04? that'd be a bit bizarre.. but i cannot make robes or coats anywhere (i.e. not on the 'jobs' menu, or in the leatherworks, or in the clothier's). the list goes as such;

• leather armour (only in the leatherworks)
• dress
• shirt
• tunic
• toga
• vest
• cloak
• leggings (only in the leatherworks)
• trousers
• cap
• helm (only in the leatherworks)
• hood
• glove
• mitten
• sock (only in the clothier's (both materials))
• high boot (only in the leatherworks)
• shoe

very strange..--DJ Devil 17:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The clothing objects you're able to make depend on your civilization - if you look, they're all in the raws. --Quietust 18:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

sorry, i dont quite understand. by 'civilisation', do you mean the race? i.e. goblin/human/dwarf? or do you mean specifically the settlement my town was created from? and in my raws it has robes and coats in the 'item_armor' file, along with togas, and the other stuff i CAN make.--DJ Devil 18:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

He does mean "specifically the settlement", although the organization is not settlement-specific. Now that I look more closely, my leatherworks is missing "shirt" and "vest", as is my clothier's shop. So yes, it varies depending on the civilization. You can get an idea of what your chosen civ has access to during the Embark phase. Just go to add a new item, and look at the Bodywear category. --DeMatt 19:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I will edit the table to add togas and add a disclaimer about availability being based on civilization. --PencilinHand 16:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Metal raws concerning armor

What raws are related to how good a metal is as an armor material? Richards 21:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Article quality

<quote> Exceptional Quality Articles have ALL of the following characteristics:

Is properly categorized Has a decent amount of information (is "complete" for the purposes of new players looking for information </quote> Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered#ixzz0vc6YZ2ES

This article is mostly useless for a new play, badly formated for the information it does present, and utterly fails to give a wide range of information. how can this be "exceptional?"

152.91.9.144 05:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Leather vs Chain vs Plate

Am I missing something, or is listing the distinction in the table between these types of armor an outdated concept? As far as I know, the game doesn't currently use these terms to categorize armor, and some of them don't even make sense anymore, like metal caps being categorized as "leather". Surely the "Armor Level" column covers the concept comprehensively without causing confusion? --Soronhen 16:53, 15 October 2010 (UTC)